Posted: 2/12/2009 12:38:29 PM EDT
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I am concentrating of ammo and food preps at the moment. I have an XD45. I wish to have a 1911 in the future as well. I am having a tough time finding a case of .45 anywhere. Hell, I am lucky to find a couple boxes. There is 9mm everywhere I turn. I hind sight, it has been like that around here for quite a while. I am considering switching to a Glock 17 for ccw and general go-to gun. Am I irrational for wanting to change for ease of stocking up? I still want a 1911 in the future but I can live without the XD.
I wanted the opinion of the SF so what say you? -Switch to 9mm for ammo availability, cheaper in price, and increased mag capacity or -Stay with .45 and scrounge for ammo |
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Get both.
Sorry, had to do it. I have had many MANY handguns. I have had 9mm, 10mm, .45, .357, 44mag, so on and so forth. .45 is my weapon of choice. Get the 1911 and don't look back. Hit up the gun shows and internet. Hell, learn to reload. Bigger is better. Of course, my Python is never going to be traded away, or sold. My Ed Brown Special Forces 1911 is in the same category. However, if you must, there are a few manufacturers making 9mm 1911's. Springfield and Kimber come to mind. |
Over the course of 20 years, I've gone full circle when it comes to defensive pistol calibers. I started out with 9mm, went to 10mm for a while, then .40 for a few years, then .45, and now back to 9mm. With the current state of the art bullet technology, 9mm is much more effective than it used to be. The small advantage that .45 ACP has in size doesn't make up for the huge drop in mag capacity, IMO:
Cost and availability of ammo was also a consideration for me as I try to consolidate my caliber choices. Beyond caliber, I decided to go with a weapon "platform". Although I prefer the ergonomics of the S&W M&P, I went with Glocks: ––They're reliability is legendary ––Mags are (were) cheap and plentiful ––Availability of accessories is mind-boggling P.S. I think this is my first post in the survival forum. I've been trying to spend more time here––when I can pull myself away from the circus that is GD. 
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| Where I’m at 9mm or 45 never are in stock; It seems to me that these two are without a doubt the two most popular rounds to shoot. If you are looking for ammo availability when picking out a gun I would suggest a 40 that doesn’t seem to be near as popular as the other two and as a result it is much easier to come by. |
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There are lots of pros to switching to a G17, but imho not being able to find ammo should not be a factor as long as the internet is working. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php/cName/pistol-ammo-45-acp http://www.natchezss.com/ammo.cfm?contentID=ammoGroup&ammoGroup=2&searchBy=size&ammoSize=300 http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=1093&dir=18|829|842 http://www.outdoormarksman.com/index.php?cPath=65_1_21 |
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The crazies coming back to watch over us are going to have 9mm.
Special forces are carrying .45. I do both. Buying another Glock 21 Saturday. No papuh. I've heard ammo manufacturers can't keep up with demand but are laying people off and production is going down. Think maybe they got some work orders from upstairs? And get set for reloading whatever you chose. Reload components are getting more costly and less in quantity also. |
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Over the course of 20 years, I've gone full circle when it comes to defensive pistol calibers. I started out with 9mm, went to 10mm for a while, then .40 for a few years, then .45, and now back to 9mm. With the current state of the art bullet technology, 9mm is much more effective than it used to be. The small advantage that .45 ACP has in size doesn't make up for the huge drop in mag capacity, IMO: http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb223/supernovavideo/gunstuff/9mmvs40vs45ri8.gif Cost and availability of ammo was also a consideration for me as I try to consolidate my caliber choices. Beyond caliber, I decided to go with a weapon "platform". Although I prefer the ergonomics of the S&W M&P, I went with Glocks: ––They're reliability is legendary ––Mags are (were) cheap and plentiful ––Availability of accessories is mind-boggling P.S. I think this is my first post in the survival forum. I've been trying to spend more time here––when I can pull myself away from the circus that is GD. Me thinks your photo is tainted. But that's OK. I've stated this many times before. Handgun calibers don't reliably expand in human bodies. Start with the biggest you can get. I've carried a gun professionally for nearing 3 decades. I too have gone full circle. Started with the 1911 and am back to it. I've shot the gluck but just couldn't get used to the 2x4 grip. Natural pointability is a large part of gunfighting skills...In my experience. Yours may vary. My advise...stay with the 45 be it an XD, Glock, or 1911. |
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Over the course of 20 years, I've gone full circle when it comes to defensive pistol calibers. I started out with 9mm, went to 10mm for a while, then .40 for a few years, then .45, and now back to 9mm. With the current state of the art bullet technology, 9mm is much more effective than it used to be. The small advantage that .45 ACP has in size doesn't make up for the huge drop in mag capacity, IMO: http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb223/supernovavideo/gunstuff/9mmvs40vs45ri8.gif Cost and availability of ammo was also a consideration for me as I try to consolidate my caliber choices. Beyond caliber, I decided to go with a weapon "platform". Although I prefer the ergonomics of the S&W M&P, I went with Glocks: ––They're reliability is legendary ––Mags are (were) cheap and plentiful ––Availability of accessories is mind-boggling P.S. I think this is my first post in the survival forum. I've been trying to spend more time here––when I can pull myself away from the circus that is GD. I could not have said it better. While I have other pistols and calibers, my 9mm G19 is my first choice. 9mm is still easier to find and afford than anything else. |
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Click on the ad for aim and they should still show wolf and aquila fmj 45acp in stock. You need to get a copy of your driver's license to them if you have not bought ammo from them before but they are easy to deal with.
I prefer to walk in when I am in ohio but right now they are so busy with internet stuff they have their showroom closed. I personally feel that any ammo can be hard to find at any time. So I would not switch right now because this summer you may find the opposite to be true. I used to buy stuff all the time and change what I carried but doing that is a pain because I need holsters and mag carriers and if you go from something like a glock to a 1911 you have to learn the safety. I just picked something I knew I would enjoy shooting and training with and use it for ccw. I ccw single stack 1911s in 45acp. One is fullsize and the other has a 4.25 inch barrel length. 45acp ammo would have to be impossable to find for a very very long time before I would change anything. |
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The 1911 is the gun you show your friends. The Glock is the gun you show your enemies. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Glock/kool_aidGlock.jpg Definitely with you there. |
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The crazies coming back to watch over us are going to have 9mm. Special forces are carrying .45. I do both. Buying another Glock 21 Saturday. No papuh. I've heard ammo manufacturers can't keep up with demand but are laying people off and production is going down. Think maybe they got some work orders from upstairs? And get set for reloading whatever you chose. Reload components are getting more costly and less in quantity also. Can anyone back this up? A lot of things are being "heard" these days. |
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Over the course of 20 years, I've gone full circle when it comes to defensive pistol calibers. I started out with 9mm, went to 10mm for a while, then .40 for a few years, then .45, and now back to 9mm. With the current state of the art bullet technology, 9mm is much more effective than it used to be. The small advantage that .45 ACP has in size doesn't make up for the huge drop in mag capacity, IMO: http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb223/supernovavideo/gunstuff/9mmvs40vs45ri8.gif Cost and availability of ammo was also a consideration for me as I try to consolidate my caliber choices. Beyond caliber, I decided to go with a weapon "platform". Although I prefer the ergonomics of the S&W M&P, I went with Glocks: ––They're reliability is legendary ––Mags are (were) cheap and plentiful ––Availability of accessories is mind-boggling P.S. I think this is my first post in the survival forum. I've been trying to spend more time here––when I can pull myself away from the circus that is GD. +100 With some of today's 9mm ammo, all you have to do is buy the expensive stuff and you have a round that's goign to do it's job if you do yours. I can understand wanting a bit more power and going for .40. I myself like 357 SIG a lot, even though I occasionally pack my Bersa 9mm too. It's all in the kind of ammo you use. .40 or 357 SIG ( just swap the barrel on any .40 to use SIG) still allows you to carry a lot of ammo in a compact gun. That's why I dont carry my 1911 anymore. Having said that, you still have to shoot them until they drop. There's no magic bullet out there. But, yes. In terms of power, availability, capcity and cost for training, 9mm or .40 are the way to go. Things have changed a lot since the FMJ harball days when if oyu wanted stopping power in a pistol caliber .45 was pretty much your only choice. FerFAL |
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Eh, just keep your eyes open. Wal-Mart has been bare for a few weeks, but I went by yesterday, and they had at least a few dozen boxes of .45 sitting there. Can't say they they're still there, but if you keep your eyes open, you'll come across it. It's not gone forever, just getting hoarded by some.
FWIW, I THINK the price of the .40 S&W Blazer Brass went down at Wal-Mart. It's been a little while since I bought, but it was $12.97 (or 12.98 or whatever) per. I thought it was $13.97 a box last time I bought. I could be wrong. I've been buying the 165 gr WWB value packs for $28.xx |
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I wanted the opinion of the SF so what say you? -Switch to 9mm for ammo availability, cheaper in price, and increased mag capacity or -Stay with .45 and scrounge for ammo All I can say is - I had the same thought about 12 years ago. .45 was costing me twice as much as 9mil. (plus I found I shot better with the Glock than my .45). The .45 was very serviceable, dead nuts reliable, but ammo supply and parts were more available for the Glock. So I changed. It also helped that one of my friends at the time also had a Glock, so I felt better in that we could share ammo if needed. |
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I'm considering a similar thing right now.
Several years ago, I purchased 2 glocks-a 22 and a 27 (.40 cals). At the time, price per box of ammo was less than a dollar more than 9mm, and i recall buying blaazer brass regularly for 8-10 dollars for .40 cal, and on one occassion, finding regular blazer for $5 a box. Now, all ammo is up in price. .40 is 15-18 dollars a box, and occassionally 9mm is found right around 10. However i have been able to purchase numerous cases of 9mm for cheap, and have close to 10000 rds, and the avenue to purchase more. as such, i have considered trading off the .40s for 2 9mm glocks- a 17 and a 19 (never use the mini, still too bulky and not as comfotable for carry as a jframe, but i digress). I do not have any problem relying on a 9mm, and have several others already, one for the wife and a 9mm revolver as well. this change will drop one caliber from my arsenal, and as i probably have only 1500 rds of 40, it will give me a fun range day before i off load them 
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| Having a Glock 22 and a 23, I would opt for a pair of 19s or 23s. The difference in ccw is huge between the full size 17/22 and the compact 19/23. You don't give up but a couple of rounds but the ease of carry is ten fold. This makes mags easier to trade between guns. If you really needed the larger mags 2 rounds you can still use the Model 17 mags in the 19. WJ |
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OP,
I replaced my G19 with a XD 9 and never looked back. If your situation allows, keep the XD 45 and get an XD 9. I have 9's for the very reasons you are stating. The ammo is readily available and almost 1/2 the cost of 45. I like to shoot and 9 mm allows to that. I'm a strong proponent of standardization. The XD 45 is just slightly bigger than the XD 9. No fumbling around - "Which pistol is in my hand?" even with two different cals. |
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Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang...... vs Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang... any questions How about Bang, he's dead? A handgun is not the greatest tool for Bang he's dead, unlike in the movies. Maybe Bang he's down or moving away from you is more like it. |
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For a while my SHTF plan was the Glock 21 and 45acp and I like the performance of the 45 over the 9mm but SHTF and survival can be different then a combat situation like self defense, home defense or military opperations. For me, I moved to a primay SHTF gun as a Glock 17 but acter carying a Glock 19 for months on end as my primary CCW weapon I am curently thinking the Glock 19 is more appropriate as it is so much easier to carry conceiled and in SHTF that may be as critical as daily life outside of SHTF.
I like 9mm as I can carry almost 2x as much ammo to the same weight and with Glock 18 mags I have enough ammo in a mag to provide substantial firepower. I still have the Glock 21 as my HD gun and a 1911 which goes to the range and prints tiny groups but the Glock 19/17 is what I want in a real SHTF situation where I need to carry ammo or I might want extra rounds because of possibly multiple opponents or just to make them duck so I can get away. Nw, I also moved to 9mm as I have 9mm AR-15, UZIs, and M11/9 so stocking los of 9mm has always been a goal. |
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I went on an ammo hunt today. I went to 4 places.
-local gun store- 35+ cases of 9mm and 20+ cases of 40SW. 2 or 3 boxes of Fiocchi .45 -Meijer- 5 boxes of WWB .45 @ $26 each -Dicks- handfull of Remington UMC FMJ .45. -Walmart- Shitload of .38 special and a shitload of .40SW, that is all. That is pretty much the norm. I bought two boxes of the Remington UMC from Dick's for now. I still haven't made up my mind on what I am going to do. I am considering doing it in ARFCOM fashion and getting both. Keep what I've got and get 9mm as well. I prefer .45 but, the availability and price of 9mm is hard to ignore. With that in mind, I would be able to get more and train more. |
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Apply this concept to all your stuff.
Expecting a store to have what you really need on their shelves is not the best choice. It has worked that way for a long while and I admit I am adicted to gallons of milk from the store and bananas and other stuff that does not really store long term very well. I still would stick to 45acp, call aim and fax them a copy of your license, and have a case of 45acp headed your way whenever they get to your name on the list. They are busy. And even if things were really really really tight, I would order another case pretty quickly because this should be showing you who you can rely on to always have what you need in stock. Hint, there is only one person you can realy rely on. |
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I still would stick to 45acp, call aim and fax them a copy of your license, and have a case of 45acp headed your way whenever they get to your name on the list. They are busy. And even if things were really really really tight, I would order another case pretty quickly because this should be showing you who you can rely on to always have what you need in stock. Hint, there is only one person you can realy rely on. Yup. There's also a vendor who shall not be named (due to some sort of conflict around here that was before my time) who has had cases of 45 in stack every time I've looked. Just peeked now, and they have Fiocchi @ 199/500 or $379/k. Last time I looked, I think they had Hydroshok or some other hollow point. Point being, it is available out there. I'd also suggest you talk to a friend. I have standing authorization to buy $100 worth of .45 anytime I see it on the shelf for a friend of mine. |
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Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang...... vs Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang... any questions How about Bang, he's dead? and if he has friends, and they take cover but are still shooting at you? |
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I still would stick to 45acp, call aim and fax them a copy of your license, and have a case of 45acp headed your way whenever they get to your name on the list. They are busy. And even if things were really really really tight, I would order another case pretty quickly because this should be showing you who you can rely on to always have what you need in stock. Hint, there is only one person you can realy rely on. Yup. There's also a vendor who shall not be named (due to some sort of conflict around here that was before my time) who has had cases of 45 in stack every time I've looked. Just peeked now, and they have Fiocchi @ 199/500 or $379/k. Last time I looked, I think they had Hydroshok or some other hollow point. Point being, it is available out there. I'd also suggest you talk to a friend. I have standing authorization to buy $100 worth of .45 anytime I see it on the shelf for a friend of mine. Edit. Ugh. Clicked the wrong post to quout. |
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Buy all the ammo you can in any caliber that is common, even if you don't own it. Example: .25-06 might be common in your area, but not mine. The barter system is a wonderful thing with ammo, especially if you have it, and they don't. My .2 cents 
I agree, but for a different reason. After the shooting starts, those without a lot of ammo will quickly run out. Also, people will die. Guns will become easily accessible. What will be gone is ammo. If you have the ammo, you will be able to get the gun. |
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Buy all the ammo you can in any caliber that is common, even if you don't own it. Example: .25-06 might be common in your area, but not mine. The barter system is a wonderful thing with ammo, especially if you have it, and they don't. My .2 cents
I agree, but for a different reason. After the shooting starts, those without a lot of ammo will quickly run out. Also, people will die. Guns will become easily accessible. What will be gone is ammo. If you have the ammo, you will be able to get the gun. Need items to barter and weapons will be available as the number of combatants decrease. Ammo is one of the best items to barter, as most individuals will not have enough to protect them for the long haul. |
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Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang...... vs Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang... any questions How about Bang, he's dead? and if he has friends, and they take cover but are still shooting at you? How many friends? What type of cover? I once had to tell a shooting victim to sit down, the ambulance was on the way. He'd been shot 5 times. Once in the face. All with a 9mm. I've made my decisions on real life experience, not on what ifs. Oh, and on over 80 trips to the morgue to witness autopsies of gunshot wounds. The guy who'd been shot 5 times? He wasn't alone. Two shooters, who were known to the victims, gained entry to execute three people. One guy was shot 5 times, one 4 times and a female three times. All with 9mm. They all lived to testify against the shooters. And don't feel too sorry for the victim's...they were drug dealing devil worshipers and the gal was an exotic dancer. You lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas comes immedately to mind. Back on topic...if a hoard of infected zombies come after me, I'm holstering my sidearm and picking up my rifle.
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Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang...... vs Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang... any questions How about Bang, he's dead? and if he has friends, and they take cover but are still shooting at you? How many friends? What type of cover? I once had to tell a shooting victim to sit down, the ambulance was on the way. He'd been shot 5 times. Once in the face. All with a 9mm. I've made my decisions on real life experience, not on what ifs. Oh, and on over 80 trips to the morgue to witness autopsies of gunshot wounds. The guy who'd been shot 5 times? He wasn't alone. Two shooters, who were known to the victims, gained entry to execute three people. One guy was shot 5 times, one 4 times and a female three times. All with 9mm. They all lived to testify against the shooters. And don't feel too sorry for the victim's...they were drug dealing devil worshipers and the gal was an exotic dancer. You lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas comes immedately to mind. Back on topic...if a hoard of infected zombies come after me, I'm holstering my sidearm and picking up my rifle.
Please list the impact location of these 5,4, and 3 shots on the survivors. No center of mass,correct? |
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The 1911 is the gun you show your friends. The Glock is the gun you show your enemies. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Glock/kool_aidGlock.jpg The Glock is the gun I use if I want to get laughed at and then killed. |
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Personally I have both. Havent seen either at walmart this year so far. Those two are two of the most common pistol rounds. if you have both you double your chance of finding your ammo....MHO That was one of the things I was thinking. 45 is preferred but, 9mm is better than a stick.
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The 1911 is the gun you show your friends. The Glock is the gun you show your enemies. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Glock/kool_aidGlock.jpg I remember when I made that! |
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Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang...... vs Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang... any questions How about Bang, he's dead? and if he has friends, and they take cover but are still shooting at you? How many friends? What type of cover? I once had to tell a shooting victim to sit down, the ambulance was on the way. He'd been shot 5 times. Once in the face. All with a 9mm. I've made my decisions on real life experience, not on what ifs. Oh, and on over 80 trips to the morgue to witness autopsies of gunshot wounds. The guy who'd been shot 5 times? He wasn't alone. Two shooters, who were known to the victims, gained entry to execute three people. One guy was shot 5 times, one 4 times and a female three times. All with 9mm. They all lived to testify against the shooters. And don't feel too sorry for the victim's...they were drug dealing devil worshipers and the gal was an exotic dancer. You lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas comes immedately to mind. Back on topic...if a hoard of infected zombies come after me, I'm holstering my sidearm and picking up my rifle.
Please list the impact location of these 5,4, and 3 shots on the survivors. No center of mass,correct? Incorrect. 1st male. (5 hits) 1 round in the face, in and out cheek through cheek, tooth and tongue damage. Three rounds to center torso, I in right lung, stopped by shoulder blade, one through large intestine, out the back, one through the back, out the stomach and one into the buttocks stopped by the pelvis. 2nd male, three rounds to center mass, one to the groin. I lung, two stomach and one to the testicles. This was the most critical patient because of the groin shot. He almost bled out. Female were all below the hips. Groin, thigh, and calf. She was the helpful one. Both males could not speak, although male #1 was walking around upon my arrival, (in shock). I'm not meaning to be arfcom's resident expert, I'm far from it. I'm just telling you, start as big as you can get. I've seen what bullets do to bodies, and none react the same in each case. In the original book, Street Survival by Calibre press, you'll find a report of a drug induced subject taking multiple rounds from NYPD 38's without effect. He also takes TWO SHOTGUN SLUGS from inside the room before going down. After the first shotgun slug through his chest, he was quoted to say..."Got me a good one there." Autopsy pictures are included. I believe the second slug put him down, if memory serves me correct because it was to his neck, interupting the central nervous system. Will the 9mm kill? Yep, so will the .22, but there are better alternatives out there. Check some ballastic tables, the 9 isn't much different then a hot .38. You just have more of them. |
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I would not switch based on temporary unavailability of an otherwise very common caliber.
But I did recently switch from .45 to 9mm to share a common caliber/handgun with my wife. There is no way she is going to be able to handle a .45, so I bought myself a SIG P228 to match hers. And a hit with a 9mm is still better than a miss with a 45. |