Posted: 12/21/2008 2:29:31 PM EDT
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What do any experts recommend for Night Vision gear? I need something within a decent price, but able to see well enough to "take care of certain situations" that might arise in a nighttime SHTF situation..
My upper price range is approx $1,500-$2,000 Also i know nothing about NV except a small understanding of the NV Generations I-IV. |
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+1 on the 3rd gen stuff.
There is a NV forum in the Armory that will probably answer the majority of your questions. I belive there are a few examples of the image quality difference between genII and III units. As for your price range, look around for a slightly used unit, I suspect that as the economy gets worse you'll see more "toys" come up for sale. |
Well, many will argue that there is no Gen IV yet. 
If you go with Gen III it will break your upper price even for a lower grade unit (grade B tube). You might be looking at 2300+ –– over $3,300 if you want military spec. If you go Gen II you can get in with a decent setup for under $1500, depending upon accessories. One of the more popular models is the D-300 which can be mounted behind an EoTech or red dot, used as a monocular or helmet mounted (as Gen III). You don't get the same clarity at distance or the same light amplification as with Gen III, nor as long as an intensifier tube life (the heart of any NV) but it is still a solid product. If you add an IR light (such as the Surefire M1) your you can extend your range–– but at the expense of others with NV knowing your position. For a SHTF or most other situation facing off with non-combat troops (thinking reality), I don't think this is much of a concern. With Gen I you pretty much always need the IR, gen II can help, gen III, not so much an issue. I have a D-300, and an M1 and am pleased with it. I say go gen III if you have all your others preps squared away or you want the gear for daily use. Otherwise, give serious consideration to Gen II and apply the $1,500+ saved for other essentials. You can always buy a Gen III later and keep the Gen II for backup, you know, 2 is 1, 1 is 0, and all that (gets expensive here, no?) Some here in SF are happy to have Gen I, and I don't blame them. When the Zombies come my money says it will usually be at night–– and using IR won't be a problem. |
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Quoted:
Well, many will argue that there is no Gen IV yet.
If you go with Gen III it will break your upper price even for a lower grade unit (grade B tube). You might be looking at 2300+ –– over $3,300 if you want military spec. If you go Gen II you can get in with a decent setup for under $1500, depending upon accessories. One of the more popular models is the D-300 which can be mounted behind an EoTech or red dot, used as a monocular or helmet mounted (as Gen III). You don't get the same clarity at distance or the same light amplification as with Gen III, nor as long as an intensifier tube life (the heart of any NV) but it is still a solid product. If you add an IR light (such as the Surefire M1) your you can extend your range–– but at the expense of others with NV knowing your position. For a SHTF or most other situation facing off with non-combat troops (thinking reality), I don't think this is much of a concern. With Gen I you pretty much always need the IR, gen II can help, gen III, not so much an issue. I have a D-300, and an M1 and am pleased with it. I say go gen III if you have all your others preps squared away or you want the gear for daily use. Otherwise, give serious consideration to Gen II and apply the $1,500+ saved for other essentials. You can always buy a Gen III later and keep the Gen II for backup, you know, 2 is 1, 1 is 0, and all that (gets expensive here, no?) Some here in SF are happy to have Gen I, and I don't blame them. When the Zombies come my money says it will usually be at night–– and using IR won't be a problem. Haha, well that just proves how much i know about NV  , and I will seriously consider that D-300 everyone keeps mentioning, I just want my family and I to have the upper hand when the zombies begin to roam.
I have an the EO-tech 512 holo which is not NV compatible, so i would definatly need to get another EO-tech for another one of my AR-15s that I can use NV for. Thank you very much for your input! I feel smarter with every post..
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Maybe visit the best NV forum on the web................?
The Best NV Forum And +1 on saving up for gen3. And +1 for there is no gen4 (so sez the military, the guys who get to say those things) |
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Gen IV actually does exist, but it was not accepted by the military community. The main difference between Gen III and Gen IV is that the phosphor screen on the microchannel plate is much thinner. This produces a much clearer image, but the life expectancy of the tube is cut nearly in half. That's why as far as the .mil is concerned there is no Gen IV.
I have seen some dealers selling "Gen IV" stuff with incredible resolution, but I notice that they don't spec the tube life like some the Gen III units they offer. +1 on the D-300 or similiar. Monoculars are so versatile compared to goggles. I've got a PVS-7b setup, and if it weren't for the laser on my AR, I wouldn't be able to shoot it at all with them. |
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Only two real choices for a NOD for REAL work within reason.
PVS-14 Gen III D-300 Gen II+ Mil Spec. I have used both and we use the D-300 for trainees it uses the same hardware as the PVS for helmet/weapon mounting. There are also the MUM or Mini-14 NODs... Excellent Quality but typically have a whole other set of mounts. I have used one of these before. It is a good unit, but purchase the whole kit, complete with mounts for helmet/head and weapon. If you decide to purchase a PVS-14 I would suggest to also get the "Kit" that comes with all of the gear mentioned as well otherwise you will need to get those items anyway. At potentially inflated costs. Other items you may want that are not included in the kit, a mount plate for a helmet, and a Rhino mount. You can find these items on E-bay from Reasonable to Astronomical. If you decide to get a D-300, you will likely want the Helmet Mounts at least and probably some sort of headgear, unless you want to be walking around holding the NOD up to your eye. Expect to pay premiums for these items such as a J-Arm and a Rhino mount for the helmet along with a plate if you don't have one. Otherwise you will want a head mount for the unit, I would advise get the PVS-7 or PVS-14 model as the "other" variants don't seem to work well. We have several of them lying about that are in less than functional condition after rather mild use. At the least you will want the Milspec headgear and a J-Arm. But all of the PVS-14 Issue items work with this unit. But the Rhino which turns the PVS-14 OFF when in the UP position. will not do this on the D-300 But it does work on the PVS-14. Just a little food for thought. In the coming year I plan to purchase a Litton PVS-14 AND a D-300, Possibly later on if I can get a good deal on one I may pick up an AVS-9 or a PVS-22. The AVS-9 is a binocular NOD designed for aviators and the PVS-22 is designed to go in front of a DAY optic to convert it to a night optic. |
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I posted this story approx. 2 years ago, Hope this helps.
My trained GSD woke me up at about 0130 hrs telling me someone was lurking outside. I live in a residential area. I look outside from a dark room as not to give my position away, but I cannot see anything or anyone. My GSD ears are perked up, she is alerting, and she is looking straight across the street into a dark area. I see nothing. I reach into my closet and grab a "Famous Trails" Gen 1 and flip it on. There he is, standing in plain view, in the dark, across the street, just casing the neighborhood. If I had walked outside to investigate, he would have seen me first. This would have been a distinct disadvantage in a survival scenario. I called the Sheriff and the suspect went to jail for his warrants and for prowling, never knowing how he was caught. Moral of the story is obvious: Night Vision works ! Even the Gen 1 stuff. |
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Only two real choices for a NOD for REAL work within reason. PVS-14 Gen III D-300 Gen II+ Mil Spec. I have used both and we use the D-300 for trainees it uses the same hardware as the PVS for helmet/weapon mounting. . I don't want to get too far off topic, but I'm curious to know your thoughts/experiences with weapons mounted vs using a helmet mounted NOD for defensive purposes. Having both, when would you chose one over the other |
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Only two real choices for a NOD for REAL work within reason. PVS-14 Gen III D-300 Gen II+ Mil Spec. I have used both and we use the D-300 for trainees it uses the same hardware as the PVS for helmet/weapon mounting. . I don't want to get too far off topic, but I'm curious to know your thoughts/experiences with weapons mounted vs using a helmet mounted NOD for defensive purposes. Having both, when would you chose one over the other Two possible ways to use a NOD with a weapon either you have to have an IR Laser OR an NV compatible sight. I happen to have an NV compatible sight, so I can mount the NOD on my weapon but this would cause me to have to have my weapon up and ready to use the NOD in addition to having to cover the area in front of me with my weapon all the time. If I were static in an overwatch or security posture I would mount the thing on my weapon, if I were patrolling I would want it on my helmet, preferably with a laser it is tough to use the NOD with a weapons mounted sight without the NOD mounted on the weapon. An IR Laser like a PEQ-2 or PAQ-4 Laser/Illuminator would be great but I don't have one. if it is "bump in the night" type stuff well a flashlight mounted to the weapon would do, OR just mount up the NOD, and keep it there at night. Flip on the NOD and go searching about in the dark! No need to don a helmet or other headgear. You will get differing opinions but without the laser I want the NOD on my weapon. This pic is my M4 with a borrowed D-300-Gen 2+ MS. on the PVS mount. you can also mount these behind the DAY optics on a precision rifle. 
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Last I checked the PAG-2/4 were not sold to civilians, and they are pretty pricey at that ($3K?) Would love to have one otherwise. 
For sure I couldn't foresee good results using the D-300 with a helmet mount while looking though an Eo-Tech–– just too many alignment problems. My biggest complaint with the D-300 is the static weapon mounting that I have- I'd love to have the NOD on a flip like my EoTech 3x magnifier so that way your rifle is good to go, day or night. (I solved the problem by just buying a second AR, one is now optimized for day, the other for night ).
For sure everything is different for daily security use vs. patrolling vs. SHTF home defense. BTW, for sure listen to AFSOC over anything I say.  Nice rifle.
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| I'm on a budget but really wanted to get a NV device for general hand-held use. I ordered this Yukon Sea Wolf monocular (Gen 1) online and it will be here tomorrow. I'll try to post some info tomorrow night once I have a chance to give it a whirl. |
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I looked at the Yukon and liked what they had. Part of my issue however was that they could not answer if it could mount behind an EoTech (I even called them and talked to several people)- no answer. Anyone know? Their Gen II+ was a few hundred less than the D-300 IIRC.
Yukon sells a "rifle scope conversion / laser pointer kit" but the laser is not IR which would make it totally worthless for my needs since everyone could then see your position–– might as well use a flashlight. 
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I looked at the Yukon and liked what they had. Part of my issue however was that they could not answer if it could mount behind an EoTech (I even called them and talked to several people)- no answer. Anyone know? Their Gen II+ was a few hundred less than the D-300 IIRC. Yukon sells a "rifle scope conversion / laser pointer kit" but the laser is not IR which would make it totally worthless for my needs since everyone could then see your position–– might as well use a flashlight.
They sell a rifle mount for it, but the damned thing is $199, almost as much as the cost of the NV. I bought this knowing it couldn't be weapon mounted for cheap (or at least without a little innovation). So for now it'll have to be handheld until I figure out something better. |
Since it didnt get bumped to the nv forum yet, I can still play. I have a larue pvs 14 quick detach that I love. I actually mount it closer to the optic, giving myself more room to use the latch. I have the larue mount on and my helmet adapter, this way I can move it from the rifle to the helmet in about 5-10 seconds. The IR laser really makes a difference when the monocle is helmet mounted. I only leave the optic on the rifle when it is by the bed. This is all about to end up on my sbr when my damn noveske barrel shows up. My .02, you can find gen 3 pvs 14 for a reasonable price. About the same as a gen 2 d300. And pvs uses standard military stuff, so you can find mounts, laser protective lense covers, compasses, ect with no real problem. |
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I looked at the Yukon and liked what they had. Part of my issue however was that they could not answer if it could mount behind an EoTech (I even called them and talked to several people)- no answer. Anyone know? It depends on what you mean by "behind" you can see on my aimpoint that I have the aimpoint all the way to the front. If you needed the room, you could move the eotech onto the rails up front, if you have them. Although this in not recommended, it will work. You will have to check to make sure your zero does not shift. And you could always take off the buis. I dont recommend that though. |
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This is what I've been told, and this is what I believe: Gen 1 lets you see in the dark. Gen 2 lets you move in the dark. Gen 3 lets you fight in own the night. And thus, I don't recommend anything less than Gen 2 units to people. ETA: For those wondering about weapon vs head mount: The helmet mount is the way to go IF you have a good IR laser/illuminator. Putting the NODs on your rifle is just like having nothing but a weapon mounted light. Your rifle will be pointing at whatever you're looking at. Second best is to get the GG&G QD mount. You can move the NODs from your gun to helmet and back again VERY quickly.... think seconds. And not many of them. |
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Other posters are correct. Weapon-mount for a static overwatch position, helmet-mount for anything else.
I use a protec helmet-mounted gen3 MUM most of the time. It's lightweight (particularly compared to my skull-crusher MICH helmet), and enables me to navigate easily at night. A weapon-mounted laser is the only other thing you need at that point. It's going to be mostly for closer-in use, but that's fine, since an engagement at extended range is going to be less likely at night. If you're primarily interested in home defense, and want to do it another way, you could get a lower generation NV unit for FAR less money, and put some IR illuminators around your home. Even a cheapo Ebay IR illuminator will provide a huge amount of infrared light, and allow you to stay in passive mode with your NVG (Illuminators are recommended for Gen2 and below due to their lower photoresponse). Here is a sample search on Ebay. The problem with the above scenario is that you're screwed once you're mobile and away from your home, but for a static position like that, it might make sense to separate the light source from your optic, particularly if you can't afford a big-bucks Gen3. A cheap IR illuminator runs on 12v, and can be had for 20-30 bucks. The downside is that your house will stand out like a beacon to anyone with NV capability (anyone looking at your home with NVGs will see it lit up like a christmas tree, and may actually bloom out their goggles). That's OK though... nothing screams "keep out" like an IR-equipped/illuminated structure. |
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I also recommend getting the PVS-14 over the MUM and the D-300, Have never seen a PVS go for the cost of a Gen 2 D-300 but if you can get a decent nod that cheap go for it. If you can, get the "Kit" that has all the accessories. You can upgrade mounts as finances permit but this allows you to at least use the thing. The PVS in factory trim comes with the swing arm, for helmet mounting, the headgear, Weapon mount, soft case etc.
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Quoted: Quoted: Second best is to get the GG&G QD mount. You can move the NODs from your gun to helmet and back again VERY quickly.... think seconds. And not many of them. But also look at the larue mount. its close to 80$ cheaper and is a LaRue product. Larue mount doesn't work in conjunction with the head mount.... does it? |
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Second best is to get the GG&G QD mount. You can move the NODs from your gun to helmet and back again VERY quickly.... think seconds. And not many of them. But also look at the larue mount. its close to 80$ cheaper and is a LaRue product. Larue mount doesn't work in conjunction with the head mount.... does it? Looks to me as though it shouldn't interfere with the head mount. You can see the threaded hole flanked by the two copper contacts in this pic and MOS2111's pics as well the Head mount (swing Arm, J-Arm) attaches at this hole so leaving the Larue and the J-arm mounted you should be able to attach to either item. without downrigging from one to the other. 
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Quoted: hmm...Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Second best is to get the GG&G QD mount. You can move the NODs from your gun to helmet and back again VERY quickly.... think seconds. And not many of them. But also look at the larue mount. its close to 80$ cheaper and is a LaRue product. Larue mount doesn't work in conjunction with the head mount.... does it? Looks to me as though it shouldn't interfere with the head mount. You can see the threaded hole flanked by the two copper contacts in this pic and MOS2111's pics as well the Head mount (swing Arm, J-Arm) attaches at this hole so leaving the Larue and the J-arm mounted you should be able to attach to either item. without downrigging from one to the other. http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/catalog/133pluseotech.jpg |
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I recommend you buy a used NVD, either a PVS7 or PVS14(one with manual gain). I've bought PVS7's as low as $1400 here, and as high as $2000 on Feebay for a top of the line model. You only want to buy NVD's that are American made. I don't care if you can buy a Russian device with an American tube-that company won't be around in 15 years, where you can still get parts for Vietnam-Era American made scopes.
As far as what to buy, I recomend ONLY getting an NVD that can be head worn. That pretty much means 7's and 14's. Don't get caught up in buying the "bestest", because they will all rock your socks off without costing $3400 and a grease up by the dealer "advising" you. I tend to stay with PVS7's over 14's just because they are better for driving and don't leave an eye exposed to tree branches. Go to the NV forums and pm people that seem like they use their NVD's a lot. A metric shit tonne of people who buy NVD's are too afraid to actually use them and they sit in a drawer, so it makes better sense to talk to guys who do more than turn them on once a month to scare the cat in the back yard. Ask about driving hazards with NVD's, dead-reckoning, and basic living with NV. There's a learning curve, and they won't turn you into a SOCOM squirrel, but they are very good at what they are designed to do and that is allow you to see in the dark. |
Just cuz I love yall
I have been able to get out more at night to try working and shooting with this setup. Its not ideal, having the weapon mount in front of your face when helmet mounted, but this allows me to use the system how I need to without buying a second monocle. I dont really notice the mount with my non nvg eye (right when helmet mounted) because it is so close to my face, I still have a decent field of view. The problem I have is getting a helmet on with nvg for a "bump in the night" so I have mine mounted on the rifle and have a laser so that I can switch to a helmet when I move to outdoors. Night vision is cool to train with, and even better if you have a friend who has some too that will ACTUALLY use them. |
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Quoted: Just cuz I love yall http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Chipfire001.jpg http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Chipfire002-1.jpg I have been able to get out more at night to try working and shooting with this setup. Its not ideal, having the weapon mount in front of your face when helmet mounted, but this allows me to use the system how I need to without buying a second monocle. I dont really notice the mount with my non nvg eye (right when helmet mounted) because it is so close to my face, I still have a decent field of view. The problem I have is getting a helmet on with nvg for a "bump in the night" so I have mine mounted on the rifle and have a laser so that I can switch to a helmet when I move to outdoors. Night vision is cool to train with, and even better if you have a friend who has some too that will ACTUALLY use them. Hmm... I'll have to play with that concept a bit. I think I would have a problem with the LT mount right there in front of my eye, but I dont know. |
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... Although useful & purposeful, my AN-PVS7 is not a huge priority on my SHTF BOG due to its volume and mass. Not so much in an urban environment at least. Get a bigger pack! 
Ask someone who survived Katrina if they would have rather hunkered down during the day and walked out of NOLA at night, or just cowboy'd up and pushed thru the indiginous population..... Urban might as well be 200 miles out in the sticks when the street lights go out. |
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Also,
Stats says that 80% of incidents happen when the sun goes down. (According to those who sell equipment for night ops.) StaPower Quoted:
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... Although useful & purposeful, my AN-PVS7 is not a huge priority on my SHTF BOG due to its volume and mass. Not so much in an urban environment at least. Get a bigger pack!
Ask someone who survived Katrina if they would have rather hunkered down during the day and walked out of NOLA at night, or just cowboy'd up and pushed thru the indiginous population..... Urban might as well be 200 miles out in the sticks when the street lights go out. |
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I posted this story approx. 2 years ago, Hope this helps. My trained GSD woke me up at about 0130 hrs telling me someone was lurking outside. I live in a residential area. I look outside from a dark room as not to give my position away, but I cannot see anything or anyone. My GSD ears are perked up, she is alerting, and she is looking straight across the street into a dark area. I see nothing. I reach into my closet and grab a "Famous Trails" Gen 1 and flip it on. There he is, standing in plain view, in the dark, across the street, just casing the neighborhood. If I had walked outside to investigate, he would have seen me first. This would have been a distinct disadvantage in a survival scenario. I called the Sheriff and the suspect went to jail for his warrants and for prowling, never knowing how he was caught. Moral of the story is obvious: Night Vision works ! Even the Gen 1 stuff. Thanks for that story! I've been wanting NV for a while now, but can't afford 3rd Gen stuff, so instead I bought an akita puppy. She's my early warnging signal and I'll either get a 1st Gen device, or just use the dog until a time when I can afford 3rd Gen stuff... |
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If you are using Gen 1 for anything you better bring a flashlight....
True story, was on an FTX and attached to an assault element as an Observer controller. The leader of the assault element got a little lost (not using Night Vision gear at all) but picked up a red light which he took to be a cigarette glow. It moved about and faded a little bit (when the subject turned his head) anyway our intrepid hero fixed on this little red dot and marched his assault element straight up to it. The subject standing there then carried on a short conversation with the assaulters who spread out into a skirmish line and our hero informs the man with the IR beacon on his head that he has just been safety killed, then the remainder of the element burns through a magazine. Moonless night walked straight up to a patrol that was prepping to leave, the leader had the IR illumination ON on his nod, the "Enemy" patrol managed to see it from a ways away without NV, fixed on it and walked straight to the CP. At the same time another "enemy" patrol was approaching from the other direction walked through the sleeping "Good guys" and did a great deal of safety killing then killing even more on the way out of the FOB. The first element to hit their mark without NODS zeroed on an IR illuminator to find the Command Post. I don't sell NODS, Hell I don't sell much of anything to be honest. I teach combat and tactics. Including the use of Night Observation Equipment and Patrol tactics, Recon, Ambush, Counter Ambush, Assault and etc. in the attached video clip, there is a segment shot through a D-300 with a Canon Digital Camcorder. We use D-300s because if someone is going to lose or damage a nod we prefer it be a $1400 D-300 rather than a $3500 PVS-14 or PVS-7. But we do send people out and actually use the stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ6Ct-8uizc |
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This is how the D-300 mounts, Using the GI Rhino, the PVS-14 Swingarm
Standard NOD Plate, Be advised also that there are Knockoff NOD plates out there Some Airsoft company makes a dupe of the MICH plate, damned similar but as I understand it they are dimensionally different and the Rhino won't fit too tight. So when you search be sure to get a USGI part. Again this is a D-300 Gen 2+, they are damned nice for the money, we hand them to trainees and they come back still functioning, Use all of the PVS mounts etc. One more thing be sure to use a dummy cord on the NOD so that it doesn't find its way to the forest floor in the dark. 
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If you are using Gen 1 for anything you better bring a flashlight....
True story, was on an FTX and attached to an assault element as an Observer controller. The leader of the assault element got a little lost (not using Night Vision gear at all) but picked up a red light which he took to be a cigarette glow. It moved about and faded a little bit (when the subject turned his head) anyway our intrepid hero fixed on this little red dot and marched his assault element straight up to it. The subject standing there then carried on a short conversation with the assaulters who spread out into a skirmish line and our hero informs the man with the IR beacon on his head that he has just been safety killed, then the remainder of the element burns through a magazine. Moonless night walked straight up to a patrol that was prepping to leave, the leader had the IR illumination ON on his nod, the "Enemy" patrol managed to see it from a ways away without NV, fixed on it and walked straight to the CP. At the same time another "enemy" patrol was approaching from the other direction walked through the sleeping "Good guys" and did a great deal of safety killing then killing even more on the way out of the FOB. The first element to hit their mark without NODS zeroed on an IR illuminator to find the Command Post. I don't sell NODS, Hell I don't sell much of anything to be honest. I teach combat and tactics. Including the use of Night Observation Equipment and Patrol tactics, Recon, Ambush, Counter Ambush, Assault and etc. in the attached video clip, there is a segment shot through a D-300 with a Canon Digital Camcorder. We use D-300s because if someone is going to lose or damage a nod we prefer it be a $1400 D-300 rather than a $35002k PVS-14 or PVS-7. But we do send people out and actually use the stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ6Ct-8uizc Using the tactics in that video will get you killed. End of story. Nice 20 second of NOD firefight, but not .Mil, and not the way you should ever fight. ETA: not belligerently drunk and posting |
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If you are using Gen 1 for anything you better bring a flashlight....
True story, was on an FTX and attached to an assault element as an Observer controller. The leader of the assault element got a little lost (not using Night Vision gear at all) but picked up a red light which he took to be a cigarette glow. It moved about and faded a little bit (when the subject turned his head) anyway our intrepid hero fixed on this little red dot and marched his assault element straight up to it. The subject standing there then carried on a short conversation with the assaulters who spread out into a skirmish line and our hero informs the man with the IR beacon on his head that he has just been safety killed, then the remainder of the element burns through a magazine. Moonless night walked straight up to a patrol that was prepping to leave, the leader had the IR illumination ON on his nod, the "Enemy" patrol managed to see it from a ways away without NV, fixed on it and walked straight to the CP. At the same time another "enemy" patrol was approaching from the other direction walked through the sleeping "Good guys" and did a great deal of safety killing then killing even more on the way out of the FOB. The first element to hit their mark without NODS zeroed on an IR illuminator to find the Command Post. I don't sell NODS, Hell I don't sell much of anything to be honest. I teach combat and tactics. Including the use of Night Observation Equipment and Patrol tactics, Recon, Ambush, Counter Ambush, Assault and etc. in the attached video clip, there is a segment shot through a D-300 with a Canon Digital Camcorder. We use D-300s because if someone is going to lose or damage a nod we prefer it be a $1400 D-300 rather than a $3500 PVS-14 or PVS-7. But we do send people out and actually use the stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ6Ct-8uizc Good Lord that looks like fun! How much is a flight to MO from Detroit these days?? |
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... looking at NODS tomm when not drunk. I
f you have your IR on for more than a minute, you should be A. Lost B. Indoors. I use illum and lasers at night like people with white lights and red lasers. You should always assume someone can see it. I took the time to look. There is very small signature. Past 10 ft it becomes VERY difficult to pick out. The green spill is more likely to give you away or attract attention if you dont have the eye cup directly against your face. |
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Quoted:
If you are using Gen 1 for anything you better bring a flashlight....
True story, was on an FTX and attached to an assault element as an Observer controller. The leader of the assault element got a little lost (not using Night Vision gear at all) but picked up a red light which he took to be a cigarette glow. It moved about and faded a little bit (when the subject turned his head) anyway our intrepid hero fixed on this little red dot and marched his assault element straight up to it. The subject standing there then carried on a short conversation with the assaulters who spread out into a skirmish line and our hero informs the man with the IR beacon on his head that he has just been safety killed, then the remainder of the element burns through a magazine. Moonless night walked straight up to a patrol that was prepping to leave, the leader had the IR illumination ON on his nod, the "Enemy" patrol managed to see it from a ways away without NV, fixed on it and walked straight to the CP. At the same time another "enemy" patrol was approaching from the other direction walked through the sleeping "Good guys" and did a great deal of safety killing then killing even more on the way out of the FOB. The first element to hit their mark without NODS zeroed on an IR illuminator to find the Command Post. I don't sell NODS, Hell I don't sell much of anything to be honest. I teach combat and tactics. Including the use of Night Observation Equipment and Patrol tactics, Recon, Ambush, Counter Ambush, Assault and etc. in the attached video clip, there is a segment shot through a D-300 with a Canon Digital Camcorder. We use D-300s because if someone is going to lose or damage a nod we prefer it be a $1400 D-300 rather than a $35002k PVS-14 or PVS-7. But we do send people out and actually use the stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ6Ct-8uizc Using the tactics in that video will get you killed. End of story. Nice 20 second of NOD firefight, but not .Mil, and not the way you should ever fight. ETA: not belligerently drunk and posting Yup what you see there is "Interesting" only reason I pointed toward that clip is so one could see what it looks like through the D-300, but You Tube quality SUCKS. Meh, I didn't shoot the video on that FTX. The "Firefight" under NOD was "Staged" just for that shot and I still have no idea what was supposed to be going on there. I believe it was supposed to be a "Probing" attack . The Videographer wanted everyone up so she could see them with the camera blah blah blah... We do teach .MIL and the stuff we teach is correct but a lot of the trainees just don't get it. Three of these guys were brand new USMC 2nd LTs, one was a prior service Staff Sergeant. As for Fun, we do offer a "Day Game" aspect of this just for fun. You definitely see some "Different" "Tactics" at those!!! |