Posted: 11/30/2008 5:43:10 AM EDT
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It's that time of year again, and I still have range work to do, zeroes to find, accuracy assessment at various ranges, etc.
Might as well kill a couple more birds with the same stone. What do you do different during range trips in the winter? What major differences do you notice as compared to summer work? Okay, cold fingers are obvious, but what else? What surprised you the first time you began spending real time at the range during the winter months, problems that you weren't prepared for? What did you do to resolve each problem? |
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Winter?
Love it. My local outdoor range will be 78 degrees today vice it's normal 108 degrees in the summer. It allows me a much more pleasant shooting day. I did use to live up in Washington and found it amazing that a few magazines though an FAL would heat it up to the point where the weather falling on it (rain) would generate so much steam to render the sights useless. It also gave away my general location within the steam cloud. Within minutes the steam was able to fill the small clearing I would shoot within. If I was shooting in such conditions I would have to keep moving and keep the barrel as dry as possible. The operating controls of my DSA FAL were a bit too small for heavy gloves. |
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I find I wear more clothes (sometimes... I will still end up at the range in shorts and flip flops when it's 20F outside) so a lot of my AR stocks get collapsed a little.
I also tend to load all my mags before I got... saves your fingers from freezing over while loading them at the range. |
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Just one misplaced breath from fogging/frosting over the objective lens.
My precision is off a bit but I'm usually shooting on a shelter half in the snow all bundled up. I generally shoot varmint rifles, .22s and AR's once the deer season is over. ETA- If you use it in freezing or sub freezing temps, switch to a synthetic oil. I am generally using G96 as recommended by my local smith. I've had the standard CLP and generic gun oils gum up M700 firing pins and my 11-87 fire control group. Sucks when your gun won't go bang. |
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I used to go to the range when it was minus 20 degrees or colder out. I'd have the whole thing to myself and shoot for 2-3 hours. I can't think of any special problems I had ,but then I DID grow up hunting, trapping, and cutting firewood in that kind of weather. Hard to believe I sometimes miss Northern MN. winter.
Sorry...no help |
I've found my beer stays cold much longer then normal. 
But seriously, fogged optics if you breath wrong and cold fingers and toes is about it. Really, I have more problems with me then I do my weapons! If I had to prep for cold weather work I wouldnt fuss much with my guns, they dont mind the cold. But I'd get some comfortable warm clothes for me for sure! My biggest problem is condensation. from bringing my stuff back inside. |
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optics get fogged up
winter clothes tend to make movement/transitions harder grease doesn't do well plastics break clp does do well guns can freeze shut if you get the ammo wet with snow or vapor from the hand then let them sit around. droppping a warm mag in the snow will make it worthless when it freezes shooting glasses fog thats what I learned in AK |
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I wear layers that I can shed as it warms up. I just try not to make myslef sweat. As it cools down, just add the layers back on.
I actually use the thumb savers when loading pistol mags in the winter. I usuall cut myself in the winter loading mags. My hands are usually numb so I don't realize it until I see blood on something. I wear thin Under Armor gloves with little grippy things on the fingers when shooting. I switch to thicker gloves in the down time. A thermos of coffee can help keep you feeling warm. We shot at an outdoor range for a week in the winter while I was at the Academy. We had lots of snow. Well it was technically spring everywhere else. But in Maine, March and April are still winter. Coffee was my friend. |
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Good stuff. I've spent a lot of time outdoors in cold weather, and I try to think ahead, but I really missed the boat on this one, didn't see most of the problems posted here.
Condensation effects, blocking sight lines, fogging optics, giving away your position, fouling actions, would have learned all those the hard way. I'm guessing shooting glasses fog up too. I'd have been cussing up a storm trying to find my brass in the snow too. Loading mags with cold fingers, maybe, maybe not, I keep a lot loaded, but I try to get a lot done for each trip too, and have to load more mags about half the time. First class response, guys, you saved me a lot of heartache here. Thanks. |
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I am with KrazyL and the Length of Pull problem. The eye relief is wrong with winter clothes on. After 2 frustrating years deer hunting I decided to have a "short LOP" rifle by cutting down the stock on a Remington 700 by 1-1/4". I have to be careful with it during warmer months as the scope is a lot closer to my eye.
I can still shoot the other rifles accurately, it just takes longer to shoulder the rifle and acquire the "eye box" of the scope. |
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Everything seems harder or slower in the cold and snow. Doing a center peel in a foot of snow w/ pac boots on is gonna be slower.
Weapons manipulations are harder, reloads, draw strokes, firing grip etc. The cold itself can be distracting after a half day in the field, just shooting. If we move around a lot and run team drills, you get sweaty underneth and then chill when cooled down. Doing wounded man drills and treating a bleeder is more complicated in cold weather becasue all the layers you have to go through. The GOOD thing about winter weather is it is easy to teach basic tracking in the snow. You can use snow shoes or skis to travel, and thus try out shoting from those platforms. Winter survival training is VERY important. Winter is a good time to wring out any low temp issues with your gear or weapons, ie lubricants, batteries, clothing, food/water, optics, stoves etc. |
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lessons learned on uncle sams dime have made my winter shooting a lot more fun.
most of this has been covered but.......... layers help me regulate my temp. (mmmm...wool) i wear shooting gloves year round but in the winter i switch to a pair that still has the trigger finger in them. a good pair of wool mittens can be slid on and off as needed. proper head gear and a scarf is a must to keep the head and neck warm. humans loose lots of heat through the head. wool socks and a good pair of boots keep the pigs warm i do load mags before i head out lube up the SOCOM and the AR's with fresh oil i've used the fog-x on glass in the past, it helps remember to take weather conditions into consideration when shooting. with my 300winmag and a 100yd zero in *normal* conditions 35/85 F there is a 3.2" drop at 200yds. under 35 F it's a 3.6" drop at 200. (above 85 F is 2.8" drop) at 1000yds under 35 F is 351.1" drop / over 85 F is 263.9" drop (this is from my Schwiebert Precision Ballisticards, which i have found to be damn near dead on) |
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Shooting .22's in cold weather tends to make them FTE and fail to go into battery. They are dirty weapons and the ammo is frequently coated to help with accuracy. When it gets cold, the waxy coating gets hard and the guns won't run worth a shit.
Pro-Tip: Have lots of oil to protect your gun's finish if you are preparing for an extended winter operation schedule. Coming into and out of the cold every day will make your gun "sweat" as it warms up to room temperature. At a minimum, get your weapon out of the case while it warms up so that the moisture can evaporate. I have had many rifles and handguns rust after one day in a range bag when I was out below freezing and took my time getting home. Taking your toys to the range is one thing, but every person who is preparedness minded needs to spend a few days actually living and caring for their firearms under less than idea conditions. Even a mid-thirty degree day can be challenging if the humidity is high and you can't see thru your scope.. Again, live with your guns and learn their limitations and operating envelope. If an F16 has an operating envelope, so does your looter-shooter. Get to know where the outside edge of that envelope is before it matters. |
Winters a bitch here. I went to the Range on Friday and it was all of 80 degrees with a slight breeze. Just enough breeze to keep you from breaking a sweat. 
Seriously though I grew up in OK and hunted there for years in the cold. I just tried to keep my fingers warm and wore a glove with fingers that could be removed. Fogged optics were always a problem too. |
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Keep your hands and feet warm. Carry more than one pair of gloves if they get wet or lost your hands are toast. Loading mags is a pain when cold. Use low temp oil or grease on guns. My ar15,mini 14,10/22 and marlin 60 get a moly lube that drys after being sprayed on. Works very well.
Use some type of muzzle cover so snow or foreign matter does not get in. Suck to be out on snogo and have your barrel full of snow. Do not hold the scope with bare hands or it will fog up. Be aware of your surroundings and weather at all times. Keep full of food and liquids. Does not pay to get weak. Hunting ptarmigans on snow is fun to keep your eyes sharp. |
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17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.....:(Matthew 24:18-20)
"Have a Bug out Bag" and Be prepared,pray your wife isn't pregnant and hope the The shit dont hit the fan in the winter!! |
| Just think "Battle of the Bulge" conditions. Go read up on it. Terrible conditions on both sides. I use the same grease on my M1A as they used on their Garands. At least today there is better technology used in clothing, sleeping gear, and weapons lubricants. Winter is a bitch on everything, especially morale. |
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Quoted:
Taking your toys to the range is one thing, but every person who is preparedness minded needs to spend a few days actually living and caring for their firearms under less than idea conditions. Even a mid-thirty degree day can be challenging if the humidity is high and you can't see thru your scope.. Again, live with your guns and learn their limitations and operating envelope. If an F16 has an operating envelope, so does your looter-shooter. Get to know where the outside edge of that envelope is before it matters. I like this. Huge difference between an afternoon hike on a winter's day, and functioning at peak efficiency setting camp, sleeping well, and getting moving the next morning in snow, wind and cold. That's just camping, shooting and fighting add orders of magnitude more problems and the only way to knock them all down is hands on practice. My home range is well off the beaten track, very large, and wooded. I've half joked with the club President about camping out there, and he didn't seem worried about it, that's pretty close to "permission" in my book. Nothing in the bylaws either, just can't shoot between 10p and 8a. I see some sloppy camping trips in my near future. Thanks. |
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Quoted:
Winter? Love it. My local outdoor range will be 78 degrees today vice it's normal 108 degrees in the summer. It allows me a much more pleasant shooting day. I did use to live up in Washington and found it amazing that a few magazines though an FAL would heat it up to the point where the weather falling on it (rain) would generate so much steam to render the sights useless. It also gave away my general location within the steam cloud. Within minutes the steam was able to fill the small clearing I would shoot within. If I was shooting in such conditions I would have to keep moving and keep the barrel as dry as possible. The operating controls of my DSA FAL were a bit too small for heavy gloves. I had the same problem and decided to add the following : FSE Extended Magazine release .(I recommend sanding the sharp corner) DSA oversized selector switch .( or commonwealth/English switch) Imbel wide foot bolt release . As for the trigger ,your kind of stuck there . I've seen a trigger guard that flicked out of the way but it wasn't dependable enough for me . The actual space around the trigger in my FAL is pretty sizable anyway . At the time all told it cost around $60 . The difference in actual use was unbelievable . The increased size and ergonomics of the controls would make all the difference while under stress . A lot of guys are happy with whatever FAL variant they get and use it as is . The FAL was used in so many countries and in so many different conditions that a huge amount of parts were produced to adapt them . |
| I use hot hands heat packs on the bock side of my hands under gloves on real cold days. They dont get in the way on the backs of your hands, yet work well with the blood vessuls close to the serface. I'm out in the coldest days of the year (musky fish'in) and those heat packs can really extend the time you can stand to be in the cold. |
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It's not unusual for my area to see single digit high temps for weeks on end .
When it's like that , the range is not the place you want to be for very long . Everything is harder to do , and takes longer as well . Optics fog up with the slightest breath , battery powered stuff dies twice as quick and condensation freezes on weapons or in mags when conditions are right . Nothing like a little ice in the bore to test your barrel steel 
You also learn just how good your choice of lubricant is . CLP is rated for -65° but you can feel increased drag at just a few degrees below zero . Rem oil , tetra and Hopps lube oils are worse . Even Mobil-1 above 0W30 weight starts to thicken up . EEZOX works well , but it needs to be done well before things get cold . At -40° all bets are off , and yes I've been stupid enough to try and shoot at 40 below . It was about 15 years ago at a friends cabin in the Adirondacks . My guns spent the night in the trunk of my vehicle because wanted to avoid condensation . Bad choice . When I took the AR out of it's case and pulled the charging handle back it was a little slow , so I let it snap forward and went to try it again . This time it came back easily , and kept on coming right out of the upper .. Why ? Because it had broken off at the loop that fits over the gas key . In disgust I reached for my cup of hot coffee that had been sitting on the bench for maybe 10 min .... Ever had a coffee slushy 
That was enough for me . I packed up my stuff and went back in the cabin and parked my ass in front of the wood stove for the rest of the weekend . |
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Pretty much the same as others, but I'll add a few more......
Half the guys, myself included, wear glasses, so fighting fog and clarity is ongoing. I use a fog spray and have a glasses wipe rag when things get too blurry that i can use during downtime. Finding gloves that are both warm and functional has not happened yet, I normally struggle through. This year I bought some of those heat packs and will try them in my gloves. I also upgraded to the winter trigger guard on my AR. Spending half or a full day out in the cold rain or snow wears you down fast, we make sure to set up the 12x12 canopy with sides so you can at least get out of the wind/rain/ and snow if you want. Hot coffee and soup is a must. We set up one of the propane camp cookers. Knowing yours and others limitations is important, hypo and frost bite suck. Some of the guys go back to the truck to thaw out their fingers every now and then, we give them a ribbing, but at least they are out here in the shit trying it out. Wool is my friend! Good waterproof boots, rain gear and base layers are a must. Like someone said , keep your head and neck covered and warm. It's no fun being cold, but it sucks being wet and cold. I always pack extra woolen socks to change out if need be. I try to have all my mags pre-loaded, or at least on stripper clips. As others have stated fighting fog and POI on optics, but I mostly shoot irons. We have a winter shoot coming up sometime in Jan, just waiting for the whole X-mas season to pass and some good snow to fall, I will be trying out an Eotech for the first time on my setup. I found out shooting in the rain/snow with the right people can be a lot of fun and good training, going out with the wrong people sucks. ( whiners, pussy's and whiners ) Night shooting is a hoot. Night shooting in inclement weather is a whole other ball game. Identifying your target is a must. Even with all the fancy weapon lights out there, there is such thing as too much light in the rain and falling snow. For several reasons I now have the two is one rule for lights. One Pentagon 135 lumen and one Surefire 60 lumen. ( think driving in heavy snow/rain with your high beam vs low beam. ) Also dam batteries can and will go out on you at the worst of times. I also figured out really fast, that fighting any kind of prolonged engagement in any winter environment that includes snow/lots of rain and cold temps with out shelter sucks donkey ass and would put a serious damper on ones disposition. ( Thats why it's important to pick the biggest and fattest battle buddy to share a foxhole with. ) Just some of the things I've experienced, as always YMMV. Cheers BT |
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At my range in winter its very muddy. I found walking to the targets to be difficult (the bench i almost always use has a ginat muddy slosh all year round and i like straight lines...) almost slipped a few times. I reccently brought boots. this has helped the problem.
I find that i have to take a spare jacket for when shooting prone as it often ends up muddy shooting from the mound. I don't tend to worry to much about my pants though. I find I spend LESS time there reguardless of the weather as there is only so long a man can load mags with numb fingers. Also After being rainned out a few times i now take big rolls of tape and plastic bags to water proof the targets. Never again shall i be forced home from the rain/ |
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done lots of COLD weather shooting/hunting here in WI.
scopes fog up at the worst possible time, stick to sights. i really like inch FAL's (L1A1) and AK's when it gets cold. bigger trigger guards, safetys, and mag releases for use with gloves. They are both damn near 100% reliable and not picky about lube at any temp. |