Posted: 8/2/2008 4:22:08 AM EDT
|
I've recently been reading "Hard Times - an Oral History of the Great Depression". It's been very eye opening to the affect of economic turmoil on individuals. Some of what I've learned thus far.... People living the good life are more likely to snap or kill themselves when the floor caves out. Those who are already poor or live beneath their means are more likely to overcome adverse circumstances. Most people can survive so long as they have hope. The culture of the 1930's was vastly different then today's society. People were much more self reliant then and held to a moral code of right and wrong. Today, there would likely be rampant crime given the same circumstances. Many people lost their homes due to unpaid taxes. Those who suffered the worst were those without any savings. The same can be seen today with those who live off of tons of credit. People suddenly lost their jobs and soon were battling to keep their house. The government WILL use heavy handed tactics if it really wants your money and you owe them. Not everyone who can't find work is a lazy scumbag. Especially back then. Many hard working men couldn't find any work - and many had to fight to work for grossly reduced wages. Many men felt inadequate because they couldn't bring in a paycheck. Some wives withheld sex and fought with their husbands over circumstances neither could control. Many people will resort to black market practices or other illicit businesses to get ahead when times are tough. Having useful skills can be invaluable - so long as you have the right ones. Farmers suffered immensely during the Great Depression - and not to any shortage of talent. People in the country generally faired better then those in the city. Most country folk have always been poor to an extent. For many, there was no traumatic great depression since they were already poor. Farmers suffered a great deal in many areas since the price of of cattle, hogs, wheat, cotton, etc plummeted. The federal government was very active in destroying perfectly good crops and livestock to raise the market price. You can get by on a lot less food then you think. Today we are a spoiled, fattened generation. Few of us have every even missed a meal. When times are tough, you'll eat most anything that won't kill you. Vehicles were a luxury then but still aren't a critical need today. Very useful and light years ahead of alternatives yes. We drive everywhere and yet most Americans are fat. Stocking up on precious metals is a potentially risky investment. For a time, it was illegal to own Gold and the federal government was active in confiscating it by force. Using gold or silver as currency might be bad if it's very possession is illegal. Electricity was still a new and amazing thing in the 1930's. Most of us could survive without it. Gas lamps, candles, and batteries can do wonders. Electric hot water heaters - not so much.  . Running water is something we take for granted. Even in the 1950's, my Dad 's family had to take a sponge bath when they washed do to their hand dug well. Showers are definitely a luxury as I learned in the Army during field training. Some familys survived by having the parents or children move back in. Today, America has this mentality that everyone is entitled to own a car and have their own place to live. When times are tough, take measures to assure your long term success. Obviously - be very careful of anyone you take into your home. No one had evil black rifles. If the crap hits the fan, having any working firearm will probably give someone an edge up over the sheep. Ideally, we all have the best equipment money can buy. The mere presence of a handgun, rifle, or shotgun will deter most threats. Economic depressions don't just magically go away. For many, it lasted until World War II. Some never recovered. There is no magic formula for success - life can be rough. Before and after the Depression there were several major Recessions as well. |
Granted, our monetary system is no longer based on gold - so that might effect things. I would still invest most of my resources in trying to learn new skills and stocking up on items that might be in short supply. Keep in mind that certain raw materials have jumped in price in the past couple years. Ragnar Benson has a lot of good insight in one of his books. I also found this book of interest - I haven't read it but it's on my to-buy list Long Term Survival in the Coming Dark Age |
|
I'm not altogether sure we would fall that far without some drastic gevernment action. That alone may be a problem as there would be a backlash by individuals. I do agree that those in the rural areas would be less affected than the mortgaged to the hilt wage slaves in the suburbs. At least the rural folk have more oppurtunities to grow a garden, poach a few rabbits, barter for a bushel of wheat, etc. There are enough of the one workd government around that would push for a new currency should ours tank. We may find out sooner than we think. Ops |
| The problem, as I see it is getting my/ our family members to not only see but also understand the current economic and political climate we are in. I'm sure most but all of the people who log on here have an idea of what can occur in our near future but many of the folks here are just interested in the technical info and fraternity of like experienced persons here. Those who understand the problems we face are likely less than those who regularly log on to the Outdoors / Survival forums. I regularly discuss political matters with friends and relatives who are interested in listenning, and I call in on local and national talk shows occasionally and then call a spade a spade or a socialist. Seams nobody wants to here the word Communist yet, nooooo that smacks of McCarthyism, even though very few around even are old enough to remember who Senator McCarthy was or even realise he was for the most part absolutely correct. Stuck here in the N.E. corner of PA I'm surrounded by Liberal Democrats as well so logical ideas are always countered by Liberal B,S. Well that's the end of this rant. Keep your powder dry! |
As a cab driver, that's where I am. A few weeks ago I very nearly ended my life over job and money issues. I had the gun in my mouth, and the hammer pulled back. The only reason I didn't do it was because I didn't want my landlady to get stuck cleaning up the mess. Nothin' like working 12-14 hour days and only making enough money to pay for the gas to get to work and back. There's no work in my town so I took a cab driving job 70 miles from home. My fridge, freezer, and cupboards are empty. I have 80 cents in my checking account. Every day I come home from work I look at the fan in my window to see if it's still running because I can't earn enough to pay my electic bill. Fortunately, by the end of August, the students in the college town where I work will start returning and business will pick up. I only have to last a few more weeks. |
are you posting from your own computer? you can sell that. do you pay for internet service? ditch that. do you have anything you can sell? multiple guns, garage sale items? there may be money in your house in the form of things you can sell to get by. when things pick up you can get them again or find that you can do without some of those things. |
Dude, you need to seek professional help RIGHT NOW. There are free services to help you. Secondly, if there is no work, leave. You could come down here to Columbus and find just about any line of work. Yeah, the economy is down a bit right now but not nearly as bad as the drive by media wants you to think though. If we were in the beginning stages of the next depression would the last Batman movie have set so many records, I would think not. I don't think we are going to see a 1929 style depression for a very long time if ever. I say this with one exception, a war between Iran and Israel takes everything and tosses it out the window. You have to remember that even during the great depression, lots of money was made. The folks that were jumping out of windows were in debt and over leveraged. The folks with cash on hand could own the world. There were many fortunes made by buying out desperate folks and companies. If you want to coast through the next depression, get out of debt. Start living well below you means and saving money. Stock up on what you think you will need but pay cash for it, never finance anything short of your home and even then keep it low and pay it off early. |
|
2 of my great-grandfathers (grandfather's father and grandmother's father on my dad's side) lost a lot in the Depression. 1 went to prison because he got caught stealing chickens IIRC, to feed the family. My other great grandfather was a dairy farmer and lost his farm. I don't know what they did after that, but I heard they were very poor, and I was told it was a big part of why my grandfather enlisted when he was 17. crime will depend on the area and the people it affects. we've had a bad year in the midwest with the flooding a couple months ago, and recently a bad storm and several days of power being out in almost the entire area. no looting, etc here though. lots of people filling sandbags and helping each other, and just driving on. the last couple weeks it was helping remove/cut up fallen trees and repair damage. we did what we had to get by. something I admire and am proud about the midwest and why I will never leave here. |
|
Hello JellyBelly, Please know that are people that want to help you. Many have been in similar situations and know the pain you must be feeling right now. It can seem overwhelming and you feel like you can't make it another day, but trust me friend, you can and WILL come out of this. I promise. Sometimes in the midst of severe depression, we sometimes can't see the forest because of all the darn trees in our way. We sometimes feel that there is no way out BUT THERE IS! There can be just a few small changes that can be made that will make a tremendous difference in your life. Your mindset is vital. It's everything. You need a few small successes, and that will help get your confidence back. You can come out of this and you will. Trust me. Please don't allow a temporary situation lead to a permanent solution. I am not a professional counselor and unfortunately I am not really qualified to help you through this medically, BUT I can say that I have been through very, very dark times before myself, so I can at least relate. I would like you to do me a favor, even though we have never met. I want you to make a phone call, it's free. 1-800-SUICIDE / 1-800-784-2433 or Call 1-800-273-TALK / 1-800-273-8255 ... They can help. There are TONS of groups that can be a benefit to you during this time. The numbers above can help. After you have done that, do me another favor. (Pushy son of a gun ain't I?) I want you to call in sick Sunday, then take a drive to one of your local churches, any one you want, and go in. Sit in the back, and just listen. You don't have to sing if you don't want, and if you don't know what order the books of the Bible are in, don't sweat it, I don't either. When the offering plate comes your way, let it pass. God understands. Don't panic. Don't worry about what to wear, just go. There's gonna be pretty people there, ugly people too, short folks, tall folks, rich folks, poor folk,people who can sing, and a lot of folks who can't carry a tune with bucket. No one knows you, no one is looking at you and judging you. They're just glad you're there. There is hope my friend. You have a purpose here. You touch other peoples' life whether you realize it now or not. I'm praying for you. D3vildog |
|
My mom and dad were depression babies. My grandparents were born between 1904 and 1910. My father's family lived on a small farm and raised grain and chickens. He worked at the local coal mine repairing the electrical motors in the vent and elevator systems. My mother's parents were killed in separate train accidents from the same company so she lived with her grandparents - he was a retired coal miner and hunted to put food on the table to supplement their mine pension of a few dollars a week. My parents have been married more than fifty years now and brought me up to be very conservative. When I buy a new TV or car they're nagging me to buy one from the thrift shop. Are there even LCD/Plasma sets at the thrift stores? They were somewhat surprised and even pleased to see the level of my food, water, and gun storage. Dad enjoyed the M1 Garand, M1A, and M1 Carbine like he had seen/used in Korea. They were kids during WWII and knew the rationing and still keep a very well stocked pantry. I don't understand much of the attitude of younger people today who haven't known suffering. I grew up during the Viet Nam draft and hearing the nightly body count each night. I suppose that's why I enlisted when I turned 21. I was taught to stay out of debt and to live within my means - that's foreign to the majority of people now. They live paycheck to paycheck with their credit cards slammed to the limit. Live hard today because tomorrow you'll be dead/in jail/or drowning due to global warming? |
Find help please. There's plenty of people willing to help if you're willing to ask for it. Plenty. I'll second the find a local Christian group to talk with. They can help you find food, work, diginity, and most importanly God. |
Help is here. Feeling the front sight of my S&W 29 on the roof of my mouth sorta woke me up. I had just received an "official" diagnosis from an extensive neuropsychological evaluation that showed serious impairment in certain areas in my brain. Before then, failing in life and school was always a matter of character. I was weak and just wasn't trying hard enough. If I tried harder it could all get better. The results of the evaluation felt like a death sentence. It became apparent that in some ways I was never going to get better. I have a GED and a head injury. I'm living a "hand-to-mouth" existence without much hope for improvement. Behind on child support, rent, and every other bill, and with no prospects for improvement I felt that the only contribution I could make to my son was to no longer be there. It was a severely depressed person's act of love for his child. Having jail time for child support issues hanging over my head, it was in my mind that being dead would get him less ridicule at school than being in jail for being too poor to pay support. Now I'm seeing a doctor who himself had a major brain trauma (leukemia related stroke when he was 18). He's showing me how to just live life day to day. I'm learning exercises to make the most of a brain with severe memory impairment. I am slowly learning to accept what I can't control and not personalize it. My relationship with my son has never been better. Every time I've seen him since then has been incredible. He always looks forward to his time with Dad. Never really having had one, the feeling of knowing he feels that way is amazing. With the brain damage, I've never really fit in. I've always come off as "different". Because of that I've always been alienated by people around me. Everyone from bosses to co-workers to the parents at my son's school have always treated me like "you can be here, but you're not one of us". I know now that I can find my own place in life that doesn't depend on how others feel about me. I can do good and right without their approval or acceptance. I may die some day, but it won't be by my own hands. Thank you for all your concern. |
The only real happiness you will ever find will be inside yourself. Once you allow yourself to be happy, nothing anyone thinks about you will matter any more. Nothing you can buy, no one you can meet, no amount of success you can achieve can make you happy within. Its a decision that you can make, and it will change your life. Life can be shitty for a long time, but it will seem all the sweeter when it starts to turn around. We are all praying for you. |
It doesn't help that the very chemistry in my brain was off, either. We are not as much the master of our thoughts and feelings as we'd like to believe. |
| I love the stories my 90 yr old grandmother tells me about growing up. Every time we've talked about the Depression era, she states besides reading about it in papers they really didn't experience anything different. They were almost completely self sufficient on their farm. They would trade excess crops or livestock products for things like salt, sugar, coffee, etc. otherwise they had all they needed to live comfortably. |
Right there is all the happiness in the world you need!! After that nothing else in this world really matter! My children are my life they are my strength and my weakness the though of them has brought tears to my eyes when I could not see them and it allowed me to get through the hardest times and do what I thought was imposable. God works in weird ways he tests us but he never tests us without giving us a "Open book" or the right tools to pass the test. You found your open book or tool |
|
There are 2 imporant rules you must understand first... 1- The government will not and cannot come to your rescue!!! 2 - The government will not and cannot come to your rescue!!! The only solution you will find is within your own desire, your response and your efforts!! Putting government restrictions asside, you are free to take any job, take any action you see necessary to earn a living!! It is entirely up to you!! Move!!! Get another job!!! Whatever it takes... but the result is up to you!!! If we could roll back time and get our oppressive government off our backs, reduce taxation on the growth of business and jobs, free us and the private sector from punitive taxes and the restrictions to achieve, taxation and mandated governmental crap, then we each as individuals, through job creation, would be free to achieve based on our ability and our vision.... it is still generally the case, but you cannot view government as the solution to any of your problems.... not sugesting that you are... just saw an opportunity to rant on the current governmental state of offairs... :) Get another job!... a second job.. cut grass, chop wood, clean cars at your local car dealership... whatever... in America... the only limitation on what you can earn and achieve is that set by yourself!!! It is true... there are many opportunities just waiting for you to take advantage!!! Do it! |
My father grew up poor in rural East Texas. He didn't have running water or elestricity until he was out of high school. My mother died when I was five days old leaving him with a newborn, and a two and three year old. I used to hate the spring and early summer because of the garden he had planted (5 arces of peas, corn, watermelons, etc..). I'm glad he did that. This year I took my five year old son out to pick peas. He complained, but I told him he would be better for doing it. I just wish we canned our produce instead of freezing it. BTW, my father doesn't believe in debt and believes in having some savings. I rubbed off on me and my sister, but not my brother. But, me and my brother are both former Marines and we are the keepers of the weapons. EDIT BTW, My dad is the best dad there is, IMHO. |
That's awesome! My dad was a doctor and never involved us kids in anything he did. I'm always envious of the farmers. People who live their lives by calendars and seasons are just better than those who live by stopwatches. |
Glad to hear you've changed your outlook on life. I've always enjoyed your posts and was saddened by your original one in this thread. I too have been unemployed for a while and have been feeling the effects of a local economy that has plummeted. You do fit in, with us. We are by far the closest tech forum on this site, and it shows in this thread. Killing yourself solves nothing. Remember that, there is a plan for all of us, yours has just yet to be full revealed. Remember that money can always be replaced, but your life can't. Your son needs you to be a positive influence in his life. I will be praying for you my friend. |
|
I'm another old fart who had Depression era parents. All I can say is that I listened well to my fathers stories. But, they didn't really mean much to me as a young man in a booming econmy (as usual), but as I grew older, those stories became much more relevant to me. I'm not wealthy, but I'm not beholding to others either. |
I remember whining as a kid about working but quickly got over it. I'm thankful my Dad instilled a work ethic in me when he did. My Dad is an accountant so I've never really picked up any practical work skills from him - though he does garden. Before Y2K, he was raising chickens and had bees as well. My parents haven't exactly been "survivalists" but they've tried to take practical preparations. My Dad has been amazing with finances - something that I'm just now getting a solid handle on. He tried to get me to save and be frugal when I was younger - it didn't work then. A decade or so later, Dad was right. I seem to learn most things the hard way but at least I am learning. While I'm debt free now, I still struggle with finances. I'll probably be emptying my emergency fund soon to replace a transmission. I'd rather be poor at times with zero or little debt - then live a facade. Millions of Americans are in debt up to their eyeballs - but they can still "afford" to go out to TGI Fridays or Applebees. Learning to live beneath your means will make any hardship a walk in the park. It starts with mentality. I'm trying to be thankful more for what I do have - and whine less about what I don't. Thankfulness is out of fashion these days. Life has it's ups and downs. Too many people are raised with this Disney view of life - it isn't - it's lots of hard work. While the military helped me in some respects, I found myself living in a bubble. I took all the benefits and pay for granted. Most of the times I've felt depressed I was just being selfish. I've made many mistakes in life - but we all have to take responsibility for our actions and man up. Seeking to help others helps steer one's perspective away from self. The book "Hard Times" has really opened my eyes to just how different society is today from then. While I don't think we'd see a full scale Depression, any economic upheaval could be bloody. Most Americans were a religious people then - and the vast majority knew right from wrong. They understood consequences. Woodsheds were still used to instill disicipline at an early age. Today, our government rewards lazyness - as do many parents. Discipline has been replaced with apathy. Everyone is a victim and entitled to something. If our economic system were to crash - millions of people would riot and loot. More so in urban areas - but we all get the idea. |
I grew up in a dieing town in ohio......Its real bad there now with GM cutting back so bad.......not everywhere is in such bad shape.....Mi is one of the worst places in the country as far as economy goes......you need to seriously look at leaveing and starting over........since I was 18 I have lived in SC, GA, MD, IL and now NC......you have to live where the work is.........as far as the gun in mouth thing....been there, couldnt bare the thought of my cousins kids asking why........its never that bad....seek help if your still thinking about it. |
+1 Mom grew up dirt poor......Sadly it warped her a little.......very frugal but very greedy too......I rebeled for years because I hated the greedy side......Now I am turning frugal without the greed (I hope) |
|
I didn't work for a few years following the dot com collapse, and then later moved to NM where there are NO jobs for non-hispanics. I am glad it happened to me, it made me realize what was important in life. I was ready to pull the plug a few times but meeting a good woman pulled me out of it. I guess like alot of people, alot of my perceived self-worth was centered around my job and the large amounts of money I could make. It was who I was. When all that ended, I saw the true color of my friends and my wife. All I can offer is that God has plans for all of us and those plans don't include us killing ourselves to take the easy way out. You will find what you were meant for, sooner or later. Until then, please try to remember that everything will pass and you will be stronger, better able to deal with hardship, and that some day, your children will need you desperately. If you have a handicap, all it means is that you will have to work harder to achieve the same. You were chosen by the Lord for something, and the Lord would not set you a task in life that you could not handle. Please remember to pray when things are good just as you do when things are bad. It's small comfort now but one day you will see, you were meant for important things. I'm sorry for preaching at you, but I know it's true. We all had to learn the hard way, and if it hasn't happened to all of us yet, it will. ETA: I think the others were right, you should move. I was recently in Wyoming, there is a huge energy boom there. Jobs are everywhere there. The problem might be housing but if you are willing to put up with less than perfect lodging you can still find a place to live. |
Depression Era Grandparents... they were kids back then. Like Waldo, I listened and listened good. They would talk about how things were and what they did to get by as best they could. I'm very glad I had their input and guidance in my younger days. I'm sure they would be pretty proud in how I live today. Things like turning off lights, not wasting water or heat, saving money and avoiding debt are all things I do without thinking. John |