Posted: 5/5/2008 6:29:41 AM EDT
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Ok, this is half-hearted and partially retarded, but if the shit trully hits the fan and banks collapse and so on, wouldn't your debt go away? So if you put all your food, buckets, barrels, new guns and ammo on credit cards, jack up 10 grand in debt, the world collapses, BOOM! You don't owe SHIT!! |
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i think what he means by timing it correctly is that if you buy tons of supplies now and nothing happens, then you'll be making payments. but if you buy and then the next the fan is buried in poo, you'll probably not have to pay. now this is assuming that it's TEOTWAWKI, anything less and eventually, somebody will come looking for their money. use katrina as an example. mortgage companies (i don't recall the criteria for qualifying) had a brief 1 or 2 month (may have been longer for some) mortgage holiday, where they simply did not ask for a payment. iirc, some CC companies did the same. |
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I don't think debt would ever be truly eliminated. First off, the banks and CC companies, as well as all creditors back up their databases at multiple sites, with multiple technologies. So the info is not going to disappear. It is just a matter of time before they are back on-line and coming after their money Second, the type of disaster, as mentioned, that would cause such a complete and utter breakdown of society for an unforseen amount of time, is not predictable. So you spend all this money, and you will paying it off until TEOTW, unless you get "lucky". Third, if the signs are really there, that a global meltdown is not only real, but imminent, no merchant is going to extend credit to you anyway. Cash and barter will be king, and the unused cretit on your cards will remain unused. Lastly, and this may, or may not be an issue to you, is that morally, I have a problem with it. Granted, I may change my attitude if such a catastrophic event happens, but by then, it will be to late to use my credit cards and screw the lenders anyway. YMMV fish |
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Howdy hatI Read and Research a hell of alot, and I recall reading, either in one of the patriot acts, or an executive order somewhere, where the Federal Government would absorb debt. and "We" would technically work for them, to pay them off. Debt is not going to go away! Lets look at it this way... The Federal Reserve is a group of Privately Owned BANKS, NOT a government Agency! These BIG Banks, own alot of other banks, from which you have accrued debt... The Federal Reserve (Private Banks) also pretty much own the Country, The Government and darn near all businesses out there at this point (DEBT) so... if this economy collapses... Whatever one they replace it with, it is still going to be a product of the MEGA-Global Banking Cartel, and you are still going to be indebt to them, and they are still going to expect payment. Or of course as the dollar is further devalued beyond recovery, they could prolong things just long enough to confiscate everything we all own in order to pay for unresolved debt, or further bogus taxes. Either way, running up your credit card right now is not really the best thing you could do. Paying off your debt is always a good move. |
Yup teowkie or they'll find you. |
WERD! The private banking industry already owns most of us and wants to own us all. They are guiding their puppets/henchmen in Washington to new laws to pass... where one way or the other... they will own us all. Yup... I know. Awful lot of tinfoil strapped tightly to my head. But it doesn't change what's going-on. Hope you all enjoy those nice, shiny implant chips headed our way.    
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I heard this actually happened in the '60's. People ran up huge debt because of what they thought would happen. Nothing happened. They paid for it. If you knew that something was occuring then, go for it. But, prepare to pay for a "mistake" One of my CCs has an $18k limit. If I thought that something bad was happening, I might rack up some charges. Although, am already good-to-go. However, it would not have anything to do with screwing the credit card companies. It would be about additional prepardness that is not currently in my budget. Right now, I am good for more than year. If I had warning, I would be prepped for 20 years. |
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EOTWAWKI shopping spree with no intention of paying the bill: Stealing. EOTWAWKI shopping spree with full intention of paying the bill: Not Stealing. EOTWAWKI resulting in CC company disappearing: Merchant where you bought stuff is screwed. Maybe wouldn't matter on account of devalued money |
It was worse than that in the 60s and 70s. Not all states have the same bankruptcy laws they never have had. Like the last decade, the rumor spread then you could run up your credit card and simply walk away from them filing a Chapter 7. Whoops, surprise! You have a job so the judge makes it a Chapter 13 and for seven years your wages are garnished until you pay off the debt. A bunch of people looking for a free ride got caught up on that. The recent federal bankruptcy laws basically all it did was bring the states more in line with each other. The only time I could think of you getting away with such foolishness and criminality is if you know exactly when total nuclear war is going to happen and go out just before bombs fall. Any other scenarios, the records will be there and someone will collect. My first post was no joke either. It only takes mere seconds for the credit cards to freeze your bank accounts with absolutely no due process. This happens a lot, unfairly btw, in divorce cases where a court order gives the debt to one party but both parties are on the credit card application. When one defaults SOP is freeze both parties accounts despite your legal piece of paper. Worse even a settlement in one state may not be recognized in another. You will note this contract is in which state is on all of the contracts. That means they are not bound to adhere by law to the settlement in another state. Tj |
FAILDo not pass go, do not collect $200. |
Keep dreaming. 
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shtf is not alwasy about bullets,gear and beans. Being sound in what you save and invest for in your future is just as important now,,buying a chunk of gold on the CC at 300$ and re selling for 650$ 6 months later would be a quick way ti make some flow...but flawed none the less.  its all a gamble...can you gamble with 10k of debt down teh road....i wouldnt not as things are looking. YMMV |
| If you don't pay, your credit will be ruined and they will get a judgment against you. If you have a job they will garnish, if you have assets they will take them. It is not as easy to BK credit card debts as it used to be. Unless you are going to be a homeless nomad, it is probably not a good idea. |
yes it's not as easy as it used to be, but it is very possible. what the change in bankruptcy laws a few years ago did was limit who could file, based upon income and a few other criteria. |
I try not to leave more than needed to pay bills because of fears of run on banks. Not like I have much left over when bills are paid But for me, cash will still be king Its the currency we are use to using. While gold and silver is a good thing to have, I do not believe it will be used as main currency. I also thought about maxing cards out if I think it close to SHTF, how would they collect?? I would think there will be to many people in the same boat for them the collect. FWIW, I currently have no debt except my home. |
My thoughts exactly, I rather use it than loss it and wish I would have purchase something that is not in my current budget. Loco what is your AO in WA state, east or west side? If SHTF maybe we can barter ammo if necessary
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Some of your info is a little outdated. It requires a court order for a private financial institution to bind any of your assets, whether its money or property. And you are legally allowed a certain amount, depending on the state you reside in. The company must obtain a judgement and then they must serve your bank the court papers. The bank must then at that point freeze all the monies in the account up to the state allowed amount. If they dont freeze that money then they are on the hook for it and will be required to go to a show cause hearing. And if they dont have a good excuse on why the money was not forfeited, they will owe the money and the creditor will then obtain a judgement on the bank. It is pretty much the same process for an employer as well. A bank is also not allowed to freeze an account that does not have that persons name on it that has the judgement against them. Example" If John Doe has a judgement against him and he is married it does not apply to the wife. If they obtained the judgement in John Does name and Jane Doe then they can. If John Doe has a bank account and he is joint with Sally Roger, they can sieze that account. If Jane Doe was not named in the judgement they cannot sieze an account in her name alone. Now if you reside in a community property state and there is only one signer, they will sue the individual and literally name "Jane or John Doe" as a 2nd party. Even if they dont know their names, they can obtain judgement against either. If a contract is signed with both parties and there is a divorce, the judge may give the debt to one or the other. The creditor is not required to acknowledge a divorce decree. They can go after both parties and then the one that wasnt issued the debt can civily go after the one that was given the debt. |
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Purposely Not Paying is ........................ STEALING .  If you took something with No Intent to pay for it....... It Is Dishonest. Straight forward really. All this talk about timing and data bases and teotwaki and shtf is kinda moot if you're talking about attempting to defraud financial institutions - ie: YOURSELF. IMO. Besides....... Thinking one could acquire all the "preps" necessary in a big shopping splurge is naive. The things one really needs don't require much money. Like fitness. Maybe go for a run and stop thinking about what you can't afford and how to steal it................. That's not surviving..........it's stealing. -JC |
Just FYI, here are some factors courts look at to determine if a credit card debt is fraudulent and not dischargable in bankrutpcy:
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So, which vendor do you think is going to "sell" you stuff from his or her inventory and not get paid by the CC companies? I hate to give you the bad news, but if things start looking sideways or squirrelly, vendors are quickly going to institute a "Cash ONLY" policy until things start looking up. John |
Worth noting. We've all heard stories of some poor sap who got divorced and his wife continued to screw him over because of her bad debts being recovered from the divorced husband. So for all the talk of the individuals who contemplate "stealing" from CC companies or businesses in this thread... it's worth mentioning that those same entities will gladly STEAL your money for something your ex-wife did when they can. They just want the money, don't matter to them whether it came from the proper party or not. Seems there's plenty theivery to go around... |
Oh, its not outdated just knowledge that they may not know the law or if they do they simply don't care. The legal recourse of the depositor is basically seeking a court order whiich means either they don't know how and odds are don't have the money since that's frozen. All that takes time and time is on their side at that point. The actual physical action to freeze the account is a few key stokes on a keyboard. Heck you don't even have to be a dead beat to experience this. Just have a girl hit the wrong key during a deposit and your money go into the wrong account. You'd think that reciept you have means something. It does. It means they can find whee they put it sooner You still won't get a dime until they get that money out of the other account and back into yours. BTDT You see despite that being your money both ethically and legally, once its in that bank the bank employees attitude is its banks money and they will make decisions accordingly. Its no brainer is that credit card contract you signed waved your rights or are with the same banking institution. Tj StoryTime Here's an amusing bank story. I'm buying a car and need $5,000 in cash. It so happens I have an out of state check for that amount. I go into my bank and ask to cash the check against my account. The girl says, "Sorry that check has to clear first and that takes ten days." OK, Undeterred, I simply now say. "Alright let's deposit this check in my account and I'll give you a check to withdraw $5,000 out of my account." Obviously getting upset, the girl now says, "I won't let you bypass the banks system like that!" Now, I'm starting to get a little peaved at how dim she is, "OK, let's forgett this out of state check. See, I'm putting it back in my pocket. Let's start over. I'd like to withdraw $5,000 from my account." Obviously angry now, "I TOLD YOU I WILL NOT LET YOU BYPASS OUR SYSTEM." "Ok darling go find your manager and tell her you have a customer that wnats close all three of his accounts and wants a cashiers check right now." The manager of course came over and straightened the whole thing out, however this little story exemplfies how little some people know in banking institutions, how little they care, and where their loyalties lie. Tj |
I am NOT practing law here or giving ANY legal advice - What I'm saying is and should be common knowledge - your bank can do offsets and set-offs against what you have in your account without a court order. Different in every state, so for more information you would have to consult a lawyer. |
Been there, done that. I was over $12,000 in credit card debt, trying to live the new socialist American way. I was using credit cards to pay other credit cards and to put it mildly, it got ugly. What I did was pay the minimum monthly balance on all of my cards, except the smallest one, then doubled or tripled the payments on the smallest one. Once that was paid off, I took the money I had applied to the next smallest one and snow balled it onto the next smallest one. It took me about 2 yrs and a month or 2, but I eventually crawled my way out of debt. Now, I have a credit card with a $500 limit and that is all I need. If I want to buy something over $100, I give myself 72 hrs to decide if I really need it. Usually I dont, so I tend to skip it. Try what I mentioned for 6 months and see if it works... |
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I have never had a credit card and just my wife and I just used a chunk of our tax rebate to pay off medical bills. For the most part, we are debt free - namely as a lifestyle. Running up credit cards - especially with the intention to never pay up reflects a flaw in character. I would rather be broke - and have my good name - then to be in debt and be a financial slave to the lender. They may not catch up with you today - or tomorrow - but they own your hide so long as you owe them. Eventually - they will collect. There are very few things that need to be purchased on impulse. Saving for future expenditures eliminates the need for any credit card. Income is relative - anyone can live with less if they chose to reevaluate what their real world needs are. You don't have to live like the Amish - but seriously - how many of us live way above our means.... I think half of arfcom will probably die from depression if SHTF simply because they won't be able to buy new toys or go play - ie normal forms of entertainment. Be content with what you have now. Learning to live a simple debt free life will help immensely in the future. If married, learn to live off of one income and shop for bargains. Most millionaires became millionaires by being CHEAP and making wise investments. Some simply by saving what they had. Credit cards are another sign of our entitlement society and growing nanny state. They have a legitmate use for some who may need them for company travel, etc - but I dare say 90% of the US could go without and be just fine. |