Posted: 4/7/2008 1:51:06 PM EDT
I'm about ready to buy the Coleman/Powermate 3500 over at Home Depot. Been talking about it forever but have developed a flinch when it comes to spending  . I noticed they no longer list it on their webpage - only the 5K watt shows up - but my local shop still has at least one on the floor for $459. Anyone have anything bad to say about this model or a recommendation for another one in the same price range? And what are the pros/cons for a Subaru engine over, say, a Tecumseh (there's a 5K one - also Coleman - listed in my local Craig's List for $400....)? |
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Champion 46540 maybe? - for around $200 maybe? Good reviews of this unit on RV.Net It's not expired yet - depends on if you have these stores around. Checker, Schucks, or Kragen auto parts. See page #7 of the thread for the latest scoop. Linky Rebate form for $150.00 under "Garage" fouth item down. Rebate Link The "Mother" company for information on the unit. Parts America link |
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Is there a "generator for dummies" website? Some sort of a tutorial maybe? I'm wanting to purchase one in the next few months, but honestly don't have a clue about the terminology. I have in my mind what I would like to run appliance wise, but don't know what that equates to KW wise. 
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http://www.championpowerequipment.com/man/gen/CSA40015%20Manual.pdf here is the manual from the one I bought, it has some good stuff in there as far as figuring out kwh |
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My biggest beef with Coleman Powermate is that they tend to pair a top-quality engine with a Chinese-made generator head - which puts reliability and long-term parts availability in doubt. For similar money, I'd go with Briggs & Stratton Power Products (also sold under Troy-Bilt, Generac and John Deere labels). |
Just make sure the it's not Chinese made. The wattage you have posted is that the actual running watts or surge? If that is the running watts then it would be sufficient to run certain appliance around the house. Considering the prices of a lot things has gone up lately $459 is not too bad. I would ask the department manager if they are going to receive anymore models or maybe talk them into buying the floor model to get more in savings. |
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Thanks, all. Seems like everything I look at (in the price range, at least) is either Chinese-made or has significant components that are. The wattage is running, not surge. That Champion thread is great, btw - thanks. For that kind of discount, it would be worth a try. There's a Checkers auto not far from the house - I'll swing by there to see if there's an in-store model I can pick up. I'll tack this onto that thread, too, but doesn't anyone know the fuel consumption rate on the Champion (half-load, full-load, whatever)? I don't plan on trying to go off-grid with this or anything but am thinking of more of a "controlled descent into discomfort" for my family in case of major but non-TEOTWAWKI incident. Something to run the freezer for a few days instead of having to invite the whole neighborhood over for an immediate giant BBQ, charge up anything we've forgotten, go to limited lighting/heating while we strategize how to do without entirely, et cetera. Plus we could offer it as a local service - bring me a gallon of fuel and you can charge up whatever you've got for an hour.
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I am addressing this post purely on portable generators only. You know I often think about any generator does fine for the rare short-term power outage. That's why I usually suggest someone look at the past frequency of the need. For example here where I live we have had one, one week outage in 15 years and sporadic area specific outages for up to three days. I also think the generator capital of the US is FL due to their frequency of hurricanes. Its pretty obvious in a long-term outage the real limitation of a generator isn't how big it is wattage wise but how much fuel you have. I think this should be the starting point for anyone unless you like waiting in lines and then only if you know a gas station that has their own generator or someone with a larger tank supply you can tap. I think most people will realize unless outages are very frequent in their area like FL, the real limitation on timing isn't machine quality but fuel availability. EOTWAWKI, the portable generator simply isn't a long-term option with your limitation pretty much how long will it take you to preserve what food you have in other methods before you go old school for lighting etc. Once you know how long you want it to last, then you can figure out what is your bare minimum you need to keep going for how long and then can compare fuel consumption of that to what you would like to have running. Here's my favorite site for sizing. Yamaha Gen Sizing Everyones generator plan is going to be slightly different due to location, finances, and number of appliances. Some people like a gas miser small one that will run everything including delicate electronics. Some like a medium one to run most things. Yet, others like two gens a bigger one for short-term and smaller one for long-term. For most of us outside the high frequency of outages areas, the less expensive China made generators are fine. They have come a long way over the years in both durability and how quiet they are. For others, if you plan on using that generator every year, they prefer a brand that will stretch the limits of endurance. Keep in mind, portable gens eat through oil like crazy so you have to store that up as well if you want it to last. I personally have two gens and about ready to buy my third (the third really for sport use not outage). I have one medium size one which is enough to keep my fridge and freezer cold, run some house fans, or one single window air conditioner. Its a Power Max China manufactures and hasn't been used except to try it out. My other is small gas miser Coleman 1850 which is enough rotating it to keep my fridge cold and freezer cold. Its been run a bit but not much either really. My power plan is run everything on batteries except the high wattage users like the fridge, charge batteries during gen times or times in my vehicles. Good not to forget your car has alternator and if you are running it maximize your energy potential. This is one very long way to answer your question with a no. Only you can make out your personal energy plan and nobody knows what you need vs what you want better than you. All I can do is help a little with how you figure that out. As for the Coleman products in general, all I can tell you is my little 1850 is a peach and though its only been ran infrequently, its still working or waiting to be used some five years later. Tj |
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Since you asked, the average fuel consumption of a generator is about 230g/HPh, horse power hour or 310g/Kwh, kilowatt hour. One gallon weighs 5.8-6.2 lbs nominal rounded for numbers sake to 6lbs and 454 grams per pound. There's some fuel saving techniques which can improve this, but the numbers are pretty good for planning. Its pretty easy rather than pulling out the old trusty calculator and doing a dozen calculations to simply plug it into an Excel Spreadsheet then change the load or HP to get an idea of fuel consumption. The so many hours at this load in spec sheets on gens is pretty limited for planning, but it does give a rough idea without running numbers. Although the calculations run up some pretty large numbers, its quite shocking how fast they actually do eat of gas. Tj |
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TJ is exactly correct about the fuel supply issue. In fact, for bug-in applications, I'd suggest looking into LP or NG-powered gensets. These tend to be site-built, and tied in with an automatic transfer switch. They tend to be pricier, though higher-quality, and they also run for as long as you have gas. Storing large amounts of liquid fuels (like gas, diesel, etc) is very problematic, creates a potential fire hazard, requires regular rotation, and goes bad if you don't use it. Even in areas of the country that don't experience bad storms, you still get blizzards, ice storms and other such problems. Having experienced several taught me to get a house with gas heat, gas water heater, and a gas-powered genset to keep the blowers and everything else running. No heat = teh suck in the winter. |
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" Keep in mind, portable gens eat through oil like crazy so you have to store that up as well if you want it to last." TOMJEFFERSON This is a fact. I am in the oilfield equipment rental business in S. TX. We rent mobile homes/offices and forklifts, light towers, etc for the 24 hour oilfield locations. We change the oil on our generators every week. Our generators have 500 gal fuel tanks on the trailer behind the generator. running non stop, this 500 gal tank may last a week. perhaps 10 days in the spring when it is comfortable enough to not run the AC or the heat. Mid summer when running AC a lot, may not make 4 days on 500 gals fuel. but as long as the generator is running, we shut them down and change the oil every week. Otherwise, we end up with one like we have in the junk pile in the back of our yard. Fist size hole in the block with a rod sticking out of it. FYI, if the SHTF, I am bugging in at my yard here. Family owned business, 10+ 60 KW generators on site. Each with 500 gal fuel tank and a 16000 gal diesel tank that we usually keep pretty close to full. We also shock the fuel with stabalizer every so often. Biggest problem is the algae that grows in that diesel if it sits to long. Never knew "anything" could grow in fuel till I started working for my dad. Patrick |
Outstanding point. Check the manual that came with your generator... you might be surprised at some of the maintenance recommendations and intervals. My gen-set is a 3600RPM Kohler NG unit, and the manual recommends air filter, oil filter/change, and plugs either yearly or every 100 hours of operation, whichever comes first. A lower RPM gen-set (like an 1800 RPM model) might go longer without that frequent of maintenance, but realize that generators can run pretty hard, depending on how heavily loaded they are. Consequently, I have a designated "generator" box in the garage, complete with enough oil, spare plugs, extra filters, and all the tools to change them, sufficient to run the generator for several weeks. When the conditions outside are bad enough that the power's out, don't count on being able to run to the store for parts. |
| And it probably goes without saying that you should be able to do all the necessary generator maintenance yourself. Don't be one of those guys that buys a home backup generator, sticks it on a pad outside, and never learns anything about it until disaster strikes. |
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I'm gonna weigh in on this, because generators are kind of a hobby of mine and I have lived offgrid on generator power. I won't go into a detailed description of everything available, but I will say that for your stated purpose a 5000-6000 watt portable powered by a Robin-Subaru engine is a good, cost-effective choice. That engine is Japanese, made by Fuji Heavy Industries and is much better than a Tecumseh or B&S, both of which are crap these days. In fact, I would probably take one of the Chinese jobs over a Tecumseh or Briggs. I have personal experience with Tecumseh, B&S, and Robin-Subaru. The 5000-6000 watt Chinese portable diesel generators that are selling on Ebay for around $1000-$1200 new, shipped, are also decent. I have one of those engines and have talked to other people who also have them, and they are reliable and fuel efficient. They are licensed copies of the Yanmar L100, and all parts are interchangeable. Those are the new ones that I recommend. Hondas are good, but overpriced; especially the quiet ones everybody raves about. Example: the 3000 watt version, which is barely large enough to run a tiny 115 volt window unit air conditioner, a refrigerator and a couple of lights, is about $3000. For that price you can buy a 12,500 watt railroad surplus Detroit Diesel, like this one,and have it shipped to your home. Not that I'm recommending that (although that is what I did; in fact the video is mine), but you get the point. Actually, if I weren't an offgrid fanatic who loves industrial equipment, I would look on Ebay for a good used Hatz or Deutz air-cooled, diesel genny around 5000-12000 watts for $1000 or so, and buy that. Then buy some diesel stabilizer from Coleman's Surplus (who, come to think of it, also have some decent deals occasionally on milsurp gensets), or just run the genny under load for a day every 6 months and replenish the fuel supply. BTW,here's a bunch of stuff I've written about generators on my blog, in case you're interested. OK, that was probably way too much information, so just let me answer your question more simply (I just went back and read it again): If the 3.5 kw one you're looking at has the Robin-Subaru engine, I would recommend it. As for Tecumseh, I had a 5kw or so generator powered by a 10hp Tecumseh, and that engine was the worst, out of balance piece of crap I have ever had. I couldn't keep a muffler on it because of the vibration, same for the cooling shroud (which I had to use bungee cords to hold on), and the recoil starter quickly disintegrated. Let me clarify that last: the bolts holding everything on the engine didn't back out; they sheared. Finally it slung a rod. |