Posted: 11/3/2007 8:01:09 PM EDT
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I need to get into reloading, all the way in, done right, and keep in mind, this is the survival forum. I need to make match grade ammunition in .223, battlepack accuracy in .308, and it wouldn't hurt to be able to cobble up a few sidearm rounds in .44 magnum and .45 ACP. Ignoring a bench and storage shelves, but including the little tools you need to do things right, plus powder, bullets, and primers enough for 2000 rounds each in .223 and .308, and 500 rounds in the pistol calibers, how much of a total pricetag should I be looking at? No need for the full rundown on equipment, not looking to shoestring budget this op, or set up a commercial ammo factory either, a good, solid, middle of the road setup, complete, capable of match grade in .223, how much am I going to spend? |
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You should specify the amount of time you want to spend to load that number of rounds. You should also specify if you are going to load your specified ammo and then sell your stuff or continue to load for practice ammo. If you are loading once and time is of no concern, then a single stage at a substantial savings over a progressive is a definite consideration. If time is an issue, then the progressive is the only way to go. In my very limited experience, I don't think you'll have any issues getting the accuracy that you desire from either press. |
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total approximately 1200 bucks but you will have powder, primers left and ofcoarse the press etc. thats for the 223, got to figure extra for the dies, powder, brass, primers and bullets for other calibers. Buy bulk powder, bullets,primers and brass, it is cheaper that way. Check the Dillon presses, I have had one for close to 20 years now. |
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Man, your wish list is kinda all over the place. I am going to suggest 2 presses that won't break your bank and give you years of fantastic service. The new Lee Classic Cast Press is big enough to load all the way upto 50BMG rounds and is built like a tank. The Lee hand press is just so convienent when sitting in front of the tube and I need to resize brass. If you shoot alot, get a progressive for the caliber you use most. |
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If you prep then you should reload. Economics, space, and availability all say that you should reload. I will go against the grain on the progressive press. I don't see where the average person needs one. Do you shoot competitively? Do you shoot compulsively? 100's or rounds at a time? The fact that you are asking a starting estimate leads me to believe that you are on a budget. Therefore I think that a progressive will just scare you off. It isn't anything to learn with anyway. You owe it to yourself to go one step at a time for the first year or so. You WILL make mistakes once overconfidence sets in. Components will always cost.......save your brass now either way. If you start reloading this year or next, the brass is still good. Press $75-100, spray lube $7, loading block $7, dies $25/caliber, Lyman #48 manual $20, bullet puller $10, case trimmer $60, pilots/collets/shellholders $20/caliber, calipers $10-20, chamfer/deburr tool $6, powder measure/scales......don't know someone gave me an RCBS Chargemaster and measure ($200). Call it $500-600 for decent hardware set up. Get the Lyman manual, new or used or at the library now and read up. It can't hurt to spend $20 now. Get tax return and stock up if possible. Don't put it off like I did for 2 years. Trying to help. Get the Lyman book, won't be sorry. |
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I have a used Lee turret, it workls fine. Big thing is that you can stockpile components. Primers, powder, bullets...trust me thsy are getting hard to find and expensive, I thank G*d that I went crazy on IMI brass and bullets a few years back. What scares me is that the war and copper prices is making it worse...now add fear of Hillary getting in and stocking up now sucks. |
Agree with you, I do not load to save but to achieve the accuracy or load desired. 
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Thanks for the info, guys. Christmas is coming, and Santa (me) is feeling generous. There's a lot of research to do, and I needed to have a general cost figure to see whether to research reloading, night vision, or both. Right now, it looks like reloading, then night vision depending on how reloading goes. I started shooting highpower earlier this year, but had to suspend it because match ammo is becoming impossible to get. Leaning towards progressive equipment, because HP will require 2000 to 4000 rounds a year, plus smaller amounts of other calibers. Time to get some reloading books, and start hanging closer to the reloading section here. Again, thanks for the info. |
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Another way to think about it is where you see the savings. I figured 2-3K rounds I'd be at my break even point and start seeing a 30% savings. I bought components ahead of time. The price increases outpaced my loading so I actually saw the break even at 2K and savings 50%. That's a turret press setup and compared to brass case ammo. I haven't done the math but would assume if I started fresh today and ammo prices stayed steady, I would be back at my original estimate. TJ |
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2K-4K rounds per year of rifle will be considerably cheaper reloaded. That's a lot of rounds for a single stage, but not bad. I use a Lyman turret press with a flow-through expander that allows me to charge the case off the turet head. I can load about 200 rounds per hour, which is plenty for me as I'm an insomniac and get a lot of time to reload in the wee hours. If you watch for a bargain you can get components and equipment really cheap, powder for less than 1/2 price, equipment for 1/3, etc. If you are in a hury just buy a complete set of equipment and get loading. It will end up being pretty expensive, you'll shoot a lot more because ammo is so 'cheap'. Good luck. |
| Try some " WANT TO BUY- RELOADING PRESS- TELE.#" cards on the bulletin board at your rod & gun club, range or drug store. Or, in a local cheapo newspaper. There's nothing wrong with a single station press for me; I do approx. 500(or more) identical operations before needing to change anything around. I had a youngster try my buying approach several years ago and he bought a complete outfit for several rifle calibers, including heavy-duty wooden bench w/lights, for about $100. He even got c. 25lb. of some odds and ends components! |
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This is the same press I use, I have two, less than $60 at midway Get extra of these for every set of dies, they are cheap and save lots of time You install and adjust your dies once, you want to reload another caliber just remove the shell holder and turrent with dies, install new turrent and shell holder. Took longer to type than it does to actually do. I also use Lee dies, they come with a shell holder, load data for the caliber and a round plastic case to hold the dies in the turrent. You get get an entire Lee setup for .223, .308, .44 mag and .45 acp for less than $300 that would last you a lifetime with care. |
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I will say this, and only from my own reloading and shooting experirence. You are dead on, if you want to do .223 and 308 you need to reload. If you want to do multiple k per year, you need a progressive. You can get one stop shopping at Dillon. The last time I added up everything I had from them is was about $1200, but that does 4 calibers, not two. The 1200 is no materials, that is all reloading. You will also need a good timmer. I would want another single stage with a trimmer mounted on it permanently to do the amount you are talking about. It is dirty and does not belong close to your bench. |
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I have saved "somewhere" a reloading cost ciphering link. Standby. Edit: Guess it wasn't as lost as I thought. This will figure out for materials. handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp |
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Also the thing about a turrent is it splits the difference between a progressive and a single station press. With the lee, you put a fired case in the shell holder and index the turrent untill the decap/resizing die is over the case. Pull down the lever, on the way back down place a primer in the primer arm and prime on the downstroke. With rifle I remove the case, place it under my powder measure, drop powder and put back into shell holder. With pistol I index the turrent to the next die, the die that flares the case mouth slightly and has a powder measure installed so it drops a powder charge in at the same time. With a rifle the next die is a bullet seater, and the next die is the lee factory crimp die. With pistol calibers after the powder is dropped you have the bullet seat/crimp die. Then you have a loaded round of ammo. With single stage you install and adjust your sizing/decap die, run all the cases you will be loading through that die. Remove and install the next die and so on. A turrent press is the way to go. |
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Back in '93 I bought a complete RCBS reloading outfit. It cost me something like $450 for the press, trimmer, dies, dispenser, scale, the works. I was initially loading 7mm Rem Mag. I did all the math and figured that break even was 43 boxes of ammo. There was a big price difference between handloaded 7mm and factory at $25 a box... reloading can be done cheaply or expensively. Its all in what you want. Personnally I figure about $500 for equipment can get you up and running with a very decent set up. |
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Get a dillon 550 for low volume loading at about 550 - 600 with 4 caliber kits or a 650 for medium volume loading at about 770 - 850 with 4 caliber kits. Dillon You will probably want to get other things later like extra powder measures & fast change caliber conversions. For match grade ammo I run the brass through with a neck size only then trim, primer pocket cut and flash hole uniform by hand and clean. Then I run the remaining operations. This gives me good results and rapid loading on my 650. Even without the extra case work and full length sizing for semi auto rifles, the ammo is pretty consistent, better than most purchased stuff. |
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SINGLE STAGE for your first press. You'll use the hell out of it and learn a lot. I'd recommend RCBS or Hornady. I hate Lee presses, but love their dies and tools. If/When you move to progressive, you'll still have a solid single stage for other, low-volume precision reloading. |
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In shooting HP, a progressive press is almost a "must have" item. My son and I both shoot HP so we go through about 3k rounds/year. He shoots a .223 and I a .308. In loading a .223 through the progressive, you have to take into account your selection of powder. Some just don't like a powder measure and won't throw with enough consistency. I load my .223s with N-140 and it flows just fine through a dillon. In my .308s, IMR-4895 works great as well. Both loads will easily clean the 10 ring at 300. I do use a single stage press for loading my 600yd stuff though. If your .308 is being shot out of something like an M1A, you will have to trim the cases after each loading so I still use a SS press for the sizing operation. The cases are then trimmed and deburred before going back into the Dillon for priming, powder, and bullet seating. Second the notion that you do have to buy in bulk. I buy my powder by the 8lb jugs, primers by the 5k lots, and bullets in 500 round boxes. If you go to the nationals at Camp Perry, that is about the best place to stock up. Buying in smaller quantites drives your costs up. My recommendation is to get an inexpensive single stage press to go along with a Dillon 550. |
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I can not stress this enough: STRICTLY ADHERE TO ALL SAFETY RECOMENDATIONS LISTED IN THE RELOADING MANUALS! Put on your eye protection before you touch anything else on your reloading bench. I would reccomend that before you buy any equipment buy/borrow two books. First the Lyman Reloading Handbook. It's now in the 48th edition. I just talked to Lyman cust. serv. and the lady said some of the older versions may have more info on the basics, but the newest version still contains the basics. The explanations of ballistics are very good for beginners in reloading. Of course it also explains reloading step by step. Second, the now out of print Sinclair book on precision reoloading. This will tell you to the nth degree what is required to produce the highest possible quality match ammo. I also called Sinclair and was told the book is currently out of print, but is being rewritten and will be available in their Spring catalog. You don't have to do everything in the Sinclair book to produce highly accurate ammo, but they tell you what is required to produce the HIGHEST quality reloads. A couple tips: Pay special attention to the descriptions of excess presure indicators, and always check your fired cases for these signs. Buy your powder in large sizes (such as 4 or 8lb kegs or jugs). When you buy a batch of match ammo, you look to get ammo that is all from the same lot because different lots of the same ammo can shoot to a different point of impact. It's the same with powder. The books will tell you to recheck your loads with each new lot of powder. The cost of buying the larger size of powder will be offset by wasted time and components used in checking a previously dialed in load each time you open a new one pound can of powder. Buying an eight pound jug vs eight one pound cans means you will not have to confirm your pet load seven extra times. You will probably wind up trying different powders to find the load that shoots best in your firearm. Of course you will buy one pound cans to experiment, but once you have found the magic load, buy the larger quantity package. The above also applies to projectiles and primers. buying your bullets/primers in bulk/same lot will save money. Keep good records/notes. Including the loads that don't do well. The info may well prove useful later. Always clearly and securely label your reloads, including powder, primer, projectile, OAL, date loaded and etc. Those load labels from Midway are handy. Plastic ammo boxes. These keep your reloads clean, organized, and protected. (yes, yet another expense!!) Good luck, be safe and have fun. Vic. |
I agree wholeheartedly. The progressive is faster, but you need to learn how to reload first. Use the single stage for a year or two. If you want to be a cool kid still want a progressive then think about the cost savings too: cheap single stage is $75-100 and a cheap progressive is hundreds of bucks. The Lee dies are a good value even if you consider having to replace the rings. Hornady makes the best locking rings hands down. |
I reload .300 RUM. $2 per boom for factory, I bought a cheap Lee kit, an OAL guage, couple other cheap accessories. I think my break even was somewhere around 100 or 200 rounds.  I have a few things I'd like to get, such as a digital scale and a tumbler/polisher. Fun stuff to get into, and it's nice to know that you have have a lot more ammunition available than you have on hand, if you know what I mean. |
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What is your budget for this exercise? Some suggestions here go for the low end, other middle or myself I like the buy once cry once plan. Is your time valuable to you or will you count reloading time as a hobby also? Do you have to get permission to spend on man stuff? Will this be part of family preps or play time expenses? These questions are not meant to be trite or condescending or one bit insulting, they just help us in steering you to what you would be comfortable with. BRD |