Posted: 8/18/2007 10:59:14 AM EDT
|
I have somewhere around 4 years of nights sleeping on the ground, backpacking thousands of miles (never carried a gun). The only time I have ever been threatened, has been within a mile or two of a road, in town, etc. Overwhelmingly by people’s dogs. Two days ago I took my family on a hike along a section of the river where it drops 1000’ in a couple of miles, forming a continuous series of water falls (loud!). On the hike back up to the car we got split up on two different trails. The canyon sides are approx. 45° steep. Right as both groups were cresting the edge where the canyon meets the road three rottweilers appear. One dog on my group and two on my wife’s. The dogs are barking aggressively and have the high ground. After a bit of a shock, I grab a large branch and my two sons grab rocks. My wife yells down her two dogs (good girl!). I yell down mine. What I’m looking for is advise on how to handle this in the future. You only have weapons you can immediately find. Please don’t get into ‘Bring a 12 gauge stuff’. This incident happened over the border in Cali and was spur of the moment as we were driving by. So how do you protect yourself against a dog if you are unarmed? Everyone in my family has years of martial arts, so kicks and punches are a possibility. PS: Based several experiences like this, I’m going to shoot first and ask questions later in a SHTF scenario. (Sorry dog owners!) A dog is a weapon. |
|
I consider a dog attack pretty high on my likely SHTF list. I have stupid neighbors across the street from me that let their rot wriler (sorry I can't spell) sit on their front porch unleashed. I have a 16 month old son, nobody gates their yards in this nice neighborhood. If we're out front I carry my Glock 27 CCW'd. I've already wargamed it out in my head that if the dog runs at me or my son I'm drawing when it reaches the middle of the road, and I start shooting when it enters my property. If that happens I will likely feel that my life or my sons is in danger. It doesn't take long for a dog to kill an infant. A baby glock doesn't weigh all that much... I feel that it is MY responsibility to protect my family. |
A good knife is always a plus or even a small revolver, doesn't have to be large caliber to stop a canine. A nice walking stick with a pointed end or one of those sword sheathed ones. Just a few options. With a larger dog when they are coming to attack one of the best things to do is as it goes to bite shove as much of your arm as you can down it's throat. #1 it won't be able to clamp down while it's choking and #2 I won't go into gory details but I am sure you can imagine the deadly damage that can be inflicted as you remove your arm. Wouldn't be my first choice but if faced with no other defense it will work. 
|
|
Go to a local Petshop and ask them for DOG spray its a type of mace designed for dogs and it works pretty damn well. I have a German Shepherd Dog so I get my fair share of off leash dog confrontations. Here is what I do: 1. Stand Your Ground and yell out "Please Get Your Dogs Under Control!". With any luck the owner wont be far behind the dogs and will recall them and leash them. Remove your chemical spray from your pocket. If that doesn't work go to #2. 2. Put your children behind you so that you are between the dog and the children and evaluate the sitaution. Are the dogs barking in a high pitched play with tails wagging or are they deep barks with tails firm? If you're seeing teeth and growling then these dogs are aggressive and you need to go to #3. 3. Don't make EYE contact with the dogs and don't Yell at them. Yelling is a stimulation for them and Eye contact is a DIRECT challenge. It is VERY important that your children do not make eye contact as they are more at the dog's level and this will kick an aggressive dog into overdrive. 4. Move slowly facing the dog (don't turn you back on it), but don't make eye contact. If the dog or dogs advance one step say "no!' very firmly. Don't scream it (they can hear fine) just say it very harsh and very firm "no!" Put your hand out firmly and slowly like a stop and say "no". As you do this stand your ground and then after a few minutes continue to back away. 5. If the dogs rush you and do not hault spray them with the chemical spray and/or use a large walking stick to wack them good (depending on conditions you may not have to hit to kill just to keep them back, but you'll have to make that call.) 6. Keep saying out loud "Get Your Dog(s) Under Control." I have zero sympathy for folks that allow dogs they don't have a strong recall with to run off leash and even less for those that allow their dogs to get out of their sight. My GSD is on leash at all times or on an electric collar and he has a VERY strong recall. I never allow him out of my sight and unless we are way out in the boonies he is always on leash and even if out in the boonies has his electric for a recall just in case. Too many thing can happen with others dogs, people, animals and anyone who lets their dogs run wild are morons. So I wouldn't think twice about spraying a dog that was aggressive and off leash. I know some dog owners that carry electric cattle prods in case of stray dog encounters. You do what you have to do and trust me most cops and dog owners will support your actions as long as they are reasonable. Just use your good judgment, stay calm they sense fear and that can make them more aggressive, and remember sometimes its not aggression its fear you're seeing in the dog so they'll put on a big show. Just keep your head and do what is required..nothing more and nothing less. |
Sorry, but a knife? Thats bad advice. Walking stick, chemical spray, electric cattle prod, or a firearm are the only way to go when dealing with a vicious dog attack. I have a lot of Schutzhund experience and I can tell you that trying to stab a dog is going to invite A LOT of risk and even if you do kill the thing you're going to probably be hurt pretty bad. You want stand-off ability in a dog fight. |
| Employment related, I've witnessed several large-dog attacks, and heard reliable accounts of others. Important to understand, if it's an all-out, sincere, LARGE dog attack it will likely come thru the air, and strike victim at about 3 1/2ft. altitude. Recipent will instantly be on ground, unless exceedingly lucky,athletic or strong, if struck by a 100+lb. animal! ... THE POINT: Most 'contact weapons' are relatively ineffectual when the user is horizontal. |
Very good point. |
|
Don't count on the martial arts or the knife. Dogs get kicked by cattle all the time while working them, and most just shake their head and come back for more. You can't hit as hard as a bovine hoof (even with a black belt in Tae Kwondo), and a knife means you are way too close. My vote is also large heavy walking stick, large rock, spray, something so you don't have to get any closer than necessary. Eye contact info is good also. Still, my vote (I am in TX) is a G22. Doc |
|
I maced myself with Fox 5.3 and after that experience it gave me alot of respect for pepper spray... But it took 20 seconds to kick in for me. I don't know how if will effect a dog but I am happy with the way if effected me, after it set in. Mace quick and mace early. Before the dog even growls. See a dog, mace it! LOL. |
maybe...see there are different kinds of dog attacks...those missile inthe air (malinois) high hits, and the puppies playing 4 rottweilers death from a thousand bites attacks. |
The shock of it is immediate for dogs...just the distraction alone is enough to throw them off and the burning of course is more than enough to cause them to retreat. The spray really is the BEST way to deal with them as you can carry it with at all times, its easy to conceal, light weight, and you wont have to kill a dog in front of your kids. In fact, the spray will not likley permanently injure the dog if is treated properly afterwords. The Truth is 90% of dogs that act scary do so out of FEAR (shit temperments and poor socialization) and even those that are aggressive will rarely take off after somebody to hunt them down. Most dog attacks take place because the person intrudes into a confined area with a dog like a car or reaches to touch it then there are always those that get injured trying to break-up a dog fight or from correcting a dominant dog. Trust me I look for Civil Drive in dogs for protection purposes and it is rare to see a dog that will go toward an adult to attack him or her even after a lot of training. However, small children is another issue as that sometimes comes out of more of a prey drive instinct. Rabies is another factor or a sick dog, but rabies is VERY rare in this country and in most counties it has been decades if not more since a report of rabies. |
Ever read about the guy who did that with a large male lion, a wild one in Africa. He grabbed the lions tongue deep in his throat. At that point a knife would have been handy. Instead he was drug around and chewed on for a fair amount of time and other lions just wacthed. The river he was next too was flooded, his buddy was on the other side and could not get a shot. So held on to that tongue, his buddy drove down stream, crossed, came back up and shot the lion. All this time other lions just watched, he was one lucky bastard. Between that story and watching MP's work dogs on bases I lived on, if an attack is coming and I have nothing, I am making a fist with one hand and putting my knife in his throat. I would rather he bite my arm then my nuts. I am never without a fixed blade on any trail. I think there are two issues here, how to prepare for dog attacks and how to handle the OP's situation. Once you have seen a dog pack, you prepare for it. |
It's better than nothing! Was my point. I wasn't saying he should try to go after it. But it is a good defense for fending off a suprise attack if nothing better is at hand. But there is no substiute for a good handgun in a competant hand. Lot of you guys are talking about stuff relating to pet dog attacks, most likely if your dealing with an aggressive "dog" while out hiking it is going to be Feral, cross breed coyote/wolf or possibly even rabid and a lot of these common dog rules don't apply. |
Yea I have and that one was pretty wild not not sure I would want to do that with something the size of a Lion....it's like doing it to a bear but guess it was still effective to some degree. |
|
This will sound odd, but, order a spear tip from Cold Steel and put it on a walking stick. You'll be able to use a knife-like edge at a longer range than usual, IE at the end of a 4 or 5 foot shaft. Carry a thick, heavy club that you can swing hard enough to crack a dog's skull. The thing about these is that you've got quite a recovery time if multiple dogs attack. The best choice of them all, carry a .45 or a .357. Fast recover time, lots of power going into the dog, but, you mentioned California, carrying would be a big no-no. I wouldn't trust pepper spray, if something's coming at me, I want to kill it and not piss it off. Yes, I know pepper spray works most of the time, but stabbing a dog with a spear or smashing it's head works all the time. |
I do a lot of mountain biking and I've had a few confrontations with dogs. My first line of defense is my bicycle. If I'm not in a position to outrun the dog I'll stop and use it as a barrier between me and the dog. The next step is pepper spray. If that doesn't work my .357mag SP101 will get the job done.  I'm always amazed at people. They bring their dog(s) out to a trail and then seem surprised with they actually find someone else using the trail. Most of the dogs I encounter are small enough that I could boot into the next county, but occasionally they are big enough or numerous enough to be a real problem. The biggest problem, however are the feral dogs that roam around. I encountered two pitbulls on the trail. Fortunately they scattered when I fired a shot. |
| I've often thought if you just crammed you fist down the dogs throat he couldn't last very long. Especially if you start grabbing soft tissues. HE may do a number on your arm but I think the dog will come out on the losing end when his wind pipe is yanked out by the roots. |
It doesn't seem like you would be able to, but when the dog launches itself at you, step into the lunge and knee it as hard as you can in the chest. With adrenaline going, you can achieve an incredible amount of force doing this. I have been attacked 3 times by large dogs. The first time was by a GSD, and I turned to run and ended up with 12 stitches  . The second and third time were by a Lab and a Pit, and the knee deterred them from any further agression. There are probably better methods out there, but these have proven effective when you have nothing else on hand. Of course if you miss, you are screwed.
|
Thank You! Thanks to all the rest too! This was a totally unplanned hike, so the best I had with me was a pocketknife. No owner in sight, but there was a campground a ¼ mile down the road. They must have been running free. We have a can of Direct Stop for use in the neighborhood. It is supposed to be 'skunk' smell for dogs and doesn't burn their eyes, which can piss them off. It was recommended by the local animal control when we had a repeated problem walking the ½ mile to the mail boxes. Two dogs would literally be foaming at the mouth as they barked you down, guarding their property. I think I’ll get a couple of cans of pepper spray for the cars. I’ve run into black bear twice in that area. They just walk away if you leave them alone! The pepper spray could be used on two legged animals, on or off trail and you don’t get yourself into the complex Cali carry laws. ‘Baseball bat is out but a police baton is ok, etc.' Who can keep it straight? Thanks |
|
ASP baton.....I got attacked by a dog in iraq and since i couldn't shoot it given our position and I didn't feel like opening it up with my knife I whipped out my dirka dirka hadji-be-good stick and beat the shit out of that dog....worked real well-repeated strikes to the soft parts in order to open enough space to get a good swing on some hard parts. score native4: 1 rabid dog: 0 ETA-the damn dog hit me in the gut and I went down so this wsa all from the "supine" position.... just for clarification. also, thank god I had the yoke installed on my IBA. |
You would need a CCW for the sword cane. I wouldn't try to shove my arm in a dogs mouth... I'll still be able to do alot of damage!!! I have a large dog that likes to play very ruff!!!! (my girl won't play with her cause she can get ruff). The BEST way to get her down (the dog) is to grab her by the collar or throght. (Grab it when it jumps at you, if it doesn't jump, kick it) I have a friend (PO) who was attacked by a dog and he grabbed it by the throught and had no problems subdueing it after that!!! It works very well! |