Posted: 8/17/2007 3:24:07 PM EDT
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I am looking for a shotgun to build up for a hd/shtf gun. I was mainly wanting to know the most durable shotgun, and what are the differenced b/w the newer 870 express and the older 870 wingmaster. I found a wingmaster here in a shop for a good price, but was wondering what I should check on it before I bought it. It seems to have less plastic than the newer 870's. My plans would be to shorten the 28" barrel and add a mag tube extension for starters. Any other ideas? If I shortened the barrel how would I go about putting a front sight or bead back on in the correct spot? Thsnks |
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The Wingmaster has a nicer finish than the Express. Some say that the Wingmasters also have a smoother action and are made better, but I have never been able to tell any functional difference. If you look around the internet you will see some say that Remington's quality control has taken a dump and that all new 870s are total junk, but I am thinking of buying a new upland gun and the guy at the gun shop said they have NEVER had to return a problem 870. He has been in business for at least 30 years. Newer 870s except the police guns have some dimples on the magazine to prevent the attachment of magazine extensions. I assume those dimples could be ground off. I'd take a look at the Mossbergs too. The plastic safety needs to be replaced, but some of the Mossberg's features are nice. See here for a somewhat biased comparison of the 870 and Mossberg. I especially like the Mossberg's raised shell lifter, position of the safety and slide release, and the fact that it has two extractors. You can't go wrong either way IMHO. I prefer the 870 for "sporting purposes" and the Mossberg as a defensive gun. I'd just buy a shorter replacement barrel rather than wrecking a nice 28" barrel. Sell the extra barrel if you don't plan on shooting any birds. Or just buy one of the "Youth" guns and add a recoil pad; they usually have 18.5" or 20" barrels. |
| Any SHTF that gets over a month old might find the 28" with a little choke being the more useful article. Also might mention, my Ithaca found a used 20" (smooth) slug barrel on Ebay for $65. It has high visibility open rifle sights and a sling swivel, does great with buckshot, and rifled-slugs hit a steel chicken gong at 70 yards every time. |
150 dollar PPD trade in. Plus the paint job and rail, cost me like 350 once it was all done. I like it  jonesja |
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870, winnie 1300, or even a mossy 500 or 590 should do ya fine (though I am not a huge fan of the mossbergs myself) They are cheap, plentiful and effective, I have both and 870 express and a 1300, bought the 1300 used in the EE for $225, has an 18" bbl, high vis sights, side saddle, synth furniture and an OD duracoat paint job. Good enough for me. My 870 is in 20 ga and it is comfortable and fun to shoot; I have a few boxes of turkey loads on hand for it in the event it needs to be used offensively. Speed |
+1, You took the words out of my mouth. Changing a barrel on an 870 is as easy as changing uppers on your AR-15. Except it's a hell of a lot cheaper. If the Wingmaster is going for a good price, I'd pick it up and just buy a shorter barrel later on. If we are talking about a SHTF shotgun, you might as well have a food harvesting capability in addition to home defence. |
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Not really into shotguns, but do have a few. Main "battle shotgun" is a Mossy model 590. 20 inch barrel, park finish, 9 shot, ghost ring sights and screw-in choke tubes and bayo lug. Mossy seem to rattle a little, but I've run a BUNCH of buck and slugs thru mine and she ALWAYS goes BANG ! ! Looked at a 6 shot Persuader model the other day. Heat shield with just a plain bead sight. When she goes on sale I'll be buying it. Ya can never have to many guns ! ! I like to stick gallon jugs on a five foot piece of rebar for "free" reactive targets. I shoot out to 25 yards with buck, and 50 yards with slugs. Slugs at 50 yards are pretty easy to do. If my "target" is within 50 yards, I feel pretty safe . . . .  |
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590 here too. I've got a few 870s and I do admit they're slightly smoother, but for some reason I can hit what I'm aiming at better with a 590 (and Winchester 1300). www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/shotguns/compare_870_590.html |
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I have a Mossburg 500 for my SHTF shotgun. It came with a 28"(I think) barrel for birds, and a slug barrel for deer. I don't live in a state that would require a shotgun for deer hunting, so I cut this barrel at 18.5" for home defense. Is it a shotgun sin to use a slug barrel with 00 Buck? Will it damage the barrel? Any problems with this? Is there an easy way to add a front site to this sawed off barrel? |
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Jmhat98 if the old wingmaster is in good shape. go with it. mine was made in 1979 and is smooth as silk. I put a new 18" bl. on it, So I have a nice 20" w/rifle sights setting in my safe. So if you get the W-M let me know. And don't cut the 28" bl. After all us Mississippi boy's got to look out for each other. my 870 w/new bl.  |
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actually i was watching one of masaad oyoob's (sp?) video's today. it was his stress fire series: shotgun.... he's got me leaning more towards an auto loader than a pump, and a 20ga instead of a 12ga. basically the 20ga puts just as big of a hole in someone at 15 yards as a 12ga does, and has half the recoil. i already have a mossberg 500a pump, but am going to look at a mossberg, saiga, or beretta auto loader here soon. |
No, it won't damage the barrel, but if it's a rifled slug barrel the spin imparted to the shot column by the rifling will cause the pattern to open up much faster than it would from a smooth-bore barrel, or so I have been told. Have you ever patterned it with buckshot? You ought to do it just to see how it shoots. |
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I would suggest the following: Pick up a beater 870. Any 870. Order a Remington 18 barrel, no rib with cylinder bore. Rem part number24620 $128 barrel link Add Wilson two shot extension link You are now done with a function HD shotgun. Take it up a notch or two For about $100 or so, have the above barrel threaded for Rem Chokes. Now you have the option of a rifled choke tube for sabot slugs or cylinder for shot/rifled slugs. AND/OR Add sights sight link OR send it out send you shotgun off to Wislon combat for rebuild/refinish/site installation Wilson link I am in the middle of this process myself.  |
After shooting and trying out an 870, mossy persuader I bought a Benelli Nova Tactical with ghost ring sights and 18.5 barrel. I adder the mercury recoil reducer and a 3 shell ext. It was smoother to me than the others with nice balance and saftey features. So far it has been perfect even when firing the dreaded 3.5 inch shells. I really liked the recoil reducer when firing the large shells 
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 Where is the light?
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I have 3 870s in the safe. Great guns. rifle sighted 870P for deer hunting. A bead sighted express police trade in that i set up identical to our work shotguns for training. Then i got a Wilson Combat "tacticool model" just for the hell of it. The 8-shot Remington 870HD are a good value at about $300.00 NIB. Last summer they were on sale iat the local chain store for $280.00 and it took all the willpower i could muster to not go buy one. |
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A short barrel no choke shotgun is a very specialised short range weapon. If I was to have only one shotgun I don't think this would be my choice. First a "riot" gun like this is pretty poor for hunting or even defense past 15 yards or so [unless you are using slugs]. I have shot 00 buck at a standing deer's neck at 20 yards and have had every pellet miss them. Pattern the gun on some paper and you will see why. ...Saying this i do have lots of shotguns including more then a few riot ones. I guess my main one is an older 870 with a factory 18 inch slug barrel [non rifled] that has rifle sights and that been tapped to take screw in chokes. With a Full choke installed it patterns about as well as my 28 inch full choke goose gun.Goes a long way to making it a more general purpose gun. I have an extended magazine tube and a side saddle shell carrier as well. I'm sort of up in the air about these, Rambo guy says it's nice to have this extra ammo on hand if you need it, common sense guy says the chance that you will ever need it is small and that it affects the handling of the gun downward ALOT. ... To me one of the advantages a shotgun has is the way it handles and points fast and could be a mistake to modify it so this is lost. ....I would not even think about choosing a 20 over a 12 ga.Iv'e hiunted alot with both and really don't see any advantage a 20 has.If the kick is to big for you with a 12 use lighter shells but I think if you are shooting the gun off the range you probably won't even notice it.I dated a girl who weighed about 120 lbs and she shot a ton of geese with a 12 ga. 3 inch magnum and never complained. Of course 12 ga. shells are more common to fiind esp. in buck shot and heavy shot loadings.In a 12 ga. tight choke gun shot such as no. 2 and BBs are plenty deadly on larger game and people to I would imagine. I've killed deer by shooting them in the head at 20 yards with no. 2 shot out of a tight choke gun at around 20 yards a couple times. ....I have both Rem. 870s and a mossberg. Mossbergs I think of as Cheap shotguns that work well, the older 870s are better made guns then the Mossbergs but don't know if it makes any real difference. I don't like modern Winchester pumps, [I have and love the mod. 1897 and mod. 12 !] have hunted with too many guys that had them and had trouble with them.Unlike the Mossberg they are cheaply made and don't work [personal opinon] Same with the ithaca 37. in my experance with other guys that had them if short stroke they are very prone to jams and because they feed and eject out the bottom when they jam they jam. I'd buy a cheap second hand 870 , last one i bought was about $150 and then shorten or buy a short second barrel and get it threaded for screw in chokes and leave it pretty much as it is ....Todd |
oops forgot the SF forend light link. link |
You can improve this process. First beater 870 MUST be a wingmaster and found at a gun show for a price of 150 to $200. Ask if they will sell you the gun without the barrel and reduce price. Smile while asking and fondle your cash. Now walk down the aisle to whoever buys stocks. Sell them the walnut stocks. Now you have a wingmaster receiver and mag tube. Buy stock and barrel of your choice while still at show. It pays to know that all the players you need are at the show. At my local gun show all of this is easy to do excpet for finding the right base gun to start with. I won't fiddle with an express. but I don't need more than a 2 3/4" chamber so an old Wingmaster is perfect. A great find is an old slugger gun. Nobody fires a slug gun a lot and you may find you like the slug barrel with rifled sights. |
In red is exactly what I did. Yesterday I converted it back to the short tube and 28" barrel to go to a skeet shoot put on by a vendor of mine. I have to tell you that I am thinking about selling the Wilson two shot extension. Without it it feels better at the shoulder. With the 6 round sidesaddle I have 10 rounds on the gun and it feels just about right. I am still looking for a light and I just haven't ponied up for the surefire that I want. 96Ag |
