Posted: 5/10/2007 9:28:32 AM EDT
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Do you guys think night vision is a necessary item in the BOB? If so, would a night vision-capable optic on your rifle of choice be just as necessary, or could you get away with just a weaponlight? |
Next to a compass and water or water making ability, IMO NVD's are the most important piece of equipment you can have with you. Imagine moving, driving, making repairs 4" from your face, shooting, observing etc. in total darkness with no one the wiser. Imagine being able to travel freely, avoid roadblocks etc. without being detected.... while everyone else is waiting the night out. One other cool thing about NVD's is that critters don't normally have trespassers in 'their' woods at night so they spook, beat feet, make lots of noise, then tree themselves. Turn on the IR illuminator on a PVS5,7, or 14 and their eyes light up like a deer in a head light. At that point they really can't see you too well, but you are free to pop them with a .22 and have a nice meal. |
| My Police Department had a SWAT call out the past weekend. A man killed two people and was still inside of the house with his two children and he had alread attempted suicide prior to the call out. The house was in a rural area and there was no natural light and no street lights or porch lights. We were behind the closest house, staging for an entry if negotiations didn't work out. Absolutely none of us had any night vision gear at all. Come to find the suspect was sitting on his porch, unarmed the entire time. We only found that out because one of our guys was moving to his assigned perimeter position and a neighbor let him borrow his PVS7B's. Luckily the guy surrendered and hopefully we'll get some NVG's. I especially never saw NVG being a necessity for the team because there is always some light in the city, however; we were in the county helping the Sheriff's Dept. and there wasn't a street light anywhere near the house and no moonlight either. If work doesn't buy me a set then I'll get my own and skip lasik surgery with next year's tax return. |
Exactly how I feel. I wish I cold afford them, but there are other more pressing needs right now. Then again, I live in the city. If I lived out in the country with less light, then I would consider it as an essential part of my home defense kit. |
One of the things I learned back in the power outage over the whole east coast a few years back was that cities become 'country dark' when the streetlights aren't on. At the time I had one Malice Green(tm) edition maglight with half dead batteries, and spent the first evening loading mags for my AR by feel in the dark. Not fun. Later I took a walk in my complex and mingled with neighbors I could barely see with the only light to go by being the people barbequeing on their porches and the odd camping lantern or candles as people sat on their porches and kids played. It was pretty cool in that I met neighbors that I never ran into, but scary because for all the firepower I had at my disposal, none of it would have been worth a damn to me if I couldn't see or identify a target-the area has it's share of not-very-desireable types. Looking at a power outage with no end in forecast it was scary not to have a Plan To Kill Everyone You Meet(TM) should the outage go a week or two and no water available to drink.Scary times.. A bicycle and NVD's could have gotten me to the Detroit River for water, or better yet, the 24 miles to my parent's place-my Dad was in Korea on business and my Wicked Step Mother and baby sister were at home alone. |
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Night vision is an awesome advantage, but you have to be careful. Night vision can be lost, broken, stolen, or just have run down batteries. So you better make sure you can get along without night vision instead of deciding to build around an item that you then become dependant on. I think the head mounted stuff is much better and in some cases it can also be weapon mounted. There is a night vision forum where you can go read on the different stuff and decide on what works best for you. I bought a pvs 14 but don't have the stuff to mount it on a weapon. I also do not have any infrared lasers on my stuff. I am currently much more interested in a dedicated night vision scope with some built in magnification. I personally think an awful lot of stuff should come before night vision since night vision is not something most folks will use in their daily lives. So if you are not using it you won't really be used to how it works when you might need to rely on it. Basically it boils down to if you have the money for something that you may not have much use for until a major problem like a natural disaster occurs. As mentioned above though, in some jobs or areas you will find that night vision is very very useful to own and use. |
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I have what may be a stupid question, but I don't know the answer. Do just about all modern night vision devices have a built in auto-shut off when exposed to bright light so as not to harm your retina? I have an eye condition in my left eye and don't see clearly out of that one, so I would be pretty pissed to have the good one damaged. This is my foremost concern about nv. |
A head mounter NVD monocular with, say, an Eotech on a rifle, is VERY awkard to use. At the distances most are likely to need to use a rifle, a side mtd laser is more practical. Of course you can go to the added weight and expense of a dedicated NV scope on your rifle, or mount a NVD monocular on the rifle. But then it's a tactical problem to switch the NV back and forth unless you have 2 units. Consider the laser first. |
I have no idea where the concern of NV damaging a retina came from. If you can go outside during the day and deal with going from inside a house to bright sunlight, I can't imagine there would be an issue. ETA, chk w/ your eye doc to make sure. |
| The auto shut off is to preserve the goggles themselves, not your eyes. I picked up a cheap pair that strap to your head about a year ago. If you look in the EE I saw one in the optics section for about $100. Mine are generation 1, and are only good for about 50 yards at night. They can see past that, but you wont be able to tell WHO it is, only WHAT it is. On a side note, they have done more to convert people than all of my guns put together. We all know people who dont like guns, but who wouldnt want to see in the dark? I have found that people are a lot more receptive to the idea of being prepared when they can relate to a need. |
| Fellas, I would have to recommend with out a doubt that NOD's are an essential. Unless you have ever played with Gen III, you cannot imagine how much more freedom you have after the sun goes down. There is a whole other world out there in the wee morning hours. I advise you to check out the Night vision section under arms and tactics. I bought my PVS 14 from Vic at Tactical Nightvision and he is a super guy to deal with. I can't begin to describe to you how awesome it is to head mount your monocular and drive around back roads at night. I have found a way to put electrical tape or turn off every light on the inside of my truck so that it doesn't interfere with the NVG. Like one guy mentioned about how animals act toward you at night, it is almost like they don't know how to react to a human moving about at night. You will be amazed at how close you can get to animals. Honestly, you can walk up and about kick rabbits, and get close enough to deer that if you had to pop one with a .22lr,it would not be a hard thing to do. There is a reason that our military uses them so much, because it really does give you an unfair advantage at night. Seeing how most armed incounters occur at night, I think that one would be a fool not to invest in at least one set. If it were between you and several adversaries, and you had a can, NOD, and IR laser; it wouldn't even be fair. |
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I think its a high priority item. I just wish the price wasn't so high. For the price of a Gen 2 NVD, I can get at least 6 months worth of food and water or alot of ammo and mags. I've got some Gen 1 NVGs and a mono but its hardly worth the money, IMO. Someone on here said it best Gen 1 lets you see in the night Gen 2 lets you move in the night Gen 3 lets you fight in (own) the night |
Great way to put it. Remember this one, too. In the marketplace for optics, ,more so than in any other market, you get what you pay for - sometimes less, never more. |
I personally would only consider a weapon mounted NVD if it were a secondary NVD for me. You can't run around in the boonies with your head glued to your rifle, and the act of looking around will get you shot by whomever you are glassing-friend or foe. Some prefer the PVS14 for it's ability to be head or weapon mounted, but I like the PVS7 a little better. The later PVS7 models are pretty much identical in tube performance so that's not a factor for the gear whores who have THAT kind of flash cash to throw around. The PVS14 had much better eye relief, but with one eye blind you have no depth perception whereas you have some with the PVS7 as the single tube is viewed at two different angles thru a prism. Running and riding my MTB in the dark has had me miss low hanging branches that swiped across my face-imagine what that would be like with one eye unprotected with no blink reflex..... My personal recommendation is to look for an early to mid 90's goggle. These will have a tube resolution of 51lpmm and are the same goggles that ITT sold as commercial units until recently. These goggles will really get it done and it's not hard to get them cheap. After having a pair of them and then the top of the line Pinnacle version of the PVS7, the marginal increase in performance really isn't worth it. Honest. I took these to a few of the SF campouts prior to selling the first pair and nobody was complaining about the older -7's performance. Come to think of it, the first thing the buyer and I did the night we did the deal was go for a MTB ride-they are very useable. Dave |
Big +1, NVD's are not the end all to beat all when planning your preps, but like a gun, when you NEED them, you *NEED* them..... Maybe it's because I have worked nights all my life and have like minded buddies, but I used mine a lot before they were stolen in a burglary. Plan to have another real soon, as I am shopping for a pair right now. |
A NVD tube is a very delicate thing. They take low voltage DC in to the power supply and feed somewhere near 30,000 volts to the tube at low amperage. We are talking tiny amounts of power driving the tube-this is why the damn things run for 20-40 hours on a set of AA's. The designs are very good at amplifying ambient light, not operating as a flashlight bulb. The way tube protection works in a US Gen III device is done three ways: Over exposure to high light levels will brighten and blurr the image. Over exposure to high light levels (but not destructive) lasting longer than 30 seconds will turn the goggles off. Exposure to levels of light that are dangerous to the tube will shut the goggles off immediately and they will turn back on in a few seconds on their own. This happens with a carbine and no flash suppressor etc. As far as 'blinding' you, its' something that only happens in the movies. You can no more be 'blinded by an NVD' than you can be blinded by watching a camera flash on your television. |
+1 Another tip is to use the NVD on you non-dominant eye. When you go into a bright area you can switch to your dominant eye and sights (AP red dot). You may also want to have a visible laser too. Its hard to aim with a gas mask on an a visible laser will help. Helmet mounted 3rd gen mono with PEQ2 on my Para FAL Helmet mounted 3rd gen mono with IWAL on my AR15  
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A year ago guys I purchased a pvs-2 for my 20". At 125m on a average night, from a prone position I was able to keep 11 rounds in a fist size group on the head of a bad guy target. Without the pvs-2, I was barely able to see the small tree it was next to. Definetly a force multiplier. ill try and post some pics. btw its gen 1 Neez |
Wow! That thing has to to weigh like 10 lbs!! I thought mine was heavy!  
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You can find IR lasers they are out there, but you've got to know where to look and what to look for as you'll either have to purchase it from an overseas seller or from a private individual here the US. I am a firm believer in the helmet mount if you have an EO-Tech or an Aimpoint you can aim pretty darn well with a little practice. I also like IR lights for extreme blackness. |