Posted: 4/3/2007 9:18:57 PM EDT
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Hello all... I have lurked here and considered survival for sometime... I have a few things working against me.... 1) I have small kids...preschool...one barely walking...severely complicates the issue of survival....it isnt an option for me to go without them.... 2) My wife, is an asset (as discussed later) but is a slowly converting sheeple....she isnt nearly where she once was...actually, huge progress has been made, but money is tight, so large expenditures of cash for this will not be a priority for her... 3) I live in NoVA...actually the southwestern border of it...i rarely venture into DC (although I did take my oldest son to his first baseball game which was pretty damn cool)...makes for a target rich environment... 4) The area I live in is pretty high traffic, and not easily defended....if I had to I have access to a more remote location within 10 minutes, but it is still a commercially built residence in NoVA Some advantages (at least I think so): 1) I am former military; although classified as a disabled veteran I am still in pretty good shape (not running any marathons, and i could stand to lose 50 pounds, but I can walk 30 miles, and I know I can still hump a ruck)....I havent done land nav, etc in a long time, but given some time, a compass, some of those damn infantry skills they made us learn at west point may come back to me 2) I havent forgotten my weapons training, I am relatively well armed, and have a fairly good stock of ammo 3) I have enough dry foodstuffs etc on hand to feed the the family for a month or so... 4) I have my own personal medical staff...the wife...like I said a great asset...she is a practicing doctor... 5) I have a good solid 4x4...I am confident it could get me where it need to go in a bug out situation... 6) Im not blind to the fact that I am underprepared, and I am willing to learn.... 7) I have hunted/camped/fished/etc much in life....i havent much recently as an adult...but I know how to anyway...on to the questions.... I think, in a true end of the world scenario, ie massive, multiple nukes, I am likely screwed...I dont have the facilities for a long term shelter in place available to me right now....I would love to build an alternative shelter...actually, my wife and I both really like the idea of an underground home, but that is likely a 5 years or so off...and like I said, whereas I may have the ability to survive on my own, I wont leave my boys.... The more likely scenario of a larger scale 9/11 is what I am worried about, especially with proximity to DC.... what I am looking for is some advice on: 1) I think my best bet is to bug out of the NoVA area...I have read some stuff on BoV and BoB...I was wondering if anyone had a setup or advice given the fact that I am likely going to have to carry for 2 extra mouths (my 5 year old can carry some, but the 1 year old...well probably not)... 2) Any light you can shed on this particular situation would help... My op plan is to get out, and fast.... Thanks in advance for any advice...I have been reading this board for a while, and am going to try and, piecemeal, to become more and more prepared.....perhaps even to the point where I would feel comfortable sheltering in place for a month here (although really, the location for that sucks, I think i would need some mounted LMGs)... Also, if I can speak for all the other "lurkers" out there and say thank you as well... Oh! last thing....any sources for purchases (like websites) would be helpful too...its just a pain to drag the baby shopping 
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| Howdy Trio haveOne thing I've noticed on the drives down to visit, is all the underground caverns close to the Shenandoah valley area... You might want to take the family "sightseeing" some weekend and check out all those caverns have One thing you might want to try, is storing some of your preps in 5 gallon plastic, sealed buckets/pails. That way if you have to bug out, things are easy to grab and load up in your BOV, and if you end up bugging in, your preps are safe and dry. As far as preps ands logistics... there are a great number of sharp people here who I am sure will be giving you some sound advice, real soon! |
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Do a probability/severity matrix for your area and plan for the most likely, most severe SHTF scenario. In your area it would probably be a major hurricane hitting the DC area. This might not require bug out depending on where you live but would allow time to G.O.O.D. Then build you build a survival plan around the highest probability and/or highest severity of SHingTF. |
That is an example of the zingers you can expect when starting to plan. You will find that your plans evolve and change with each new thing you learn. It seems that you have many advantages and assets. What you need to do is to start assessing them to use to your advantage. Also, you need to assess what probably scenarios may strike your area and develop some realistic plans to cope with the situations. Aside from the hurricane scenario, which is pretty much overlooked my many, national security impacting events in your area are a much higher probability than most other places in the US. You will probably find that the higher probability is that your direct location will not be impacted by the potential event itself, but by the aftermath, which could range from a mass of people bugging through your AOR to fallout from a dirty nuclear bomb - again, you need to assess your location and prevailing winds for that latter one. You also need to take a close look at what your residence can and can't offer, who your neighbors are, i.e., who is an asset, who isn't, to come to the conclusion of whether you can bug-in or need to bug-out ... this will depend upon the type of event, of course. Finally, one point that I quickly learned. Military training is an asset, there are no two ways about it. Most people don't have it and wish they did, but aren't willing to put up with the sacrifice and risk associated with it. If you were in the Army or Marines, you were trained as a combat infantryman, which should have given you a wide bandwidth of skills needed in survival. Realize the limitations, however, that basic combat training brings with it. Although you receive a lot of individual skill training, you are trained to fight as a team, usually at squad level in BCT, then at platoon, possibly company, level in AIT - things have moved on since I received my training. What they don't train you at in the military, unless you receive specialized training, is personal defense training. If you haven't had this, you will quickly reaize that there are serious differences in using a pistol in a home/work/street defense scenario than what your combat training gave you. You need to train with this in mind. Also, you need to make realistic plans for defense of yourself and your family for SHTF situations, of which many will be similar to personal/home defense methods. You should start, if you haven't already, by obtaining a VA CCW permit. Proper weapons safety & storage (gun safe) are paramount issues to any parent and having very solid processes in place will do a lot in convincing your spouse that it is a wise thing to do. When it comes time to buy the gun safe, go for functionality over looks and get one that is a ot larger than you think you will need - and make sure it is a fireproof one as well. Enjoy the forum and good luck. F |
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I also stress a threat assesment of YOUR area and family situation. be rational and get multiple sources of information to make your assesment. few things in life will ruin your day faster than a hurrican or nuke explosion. but for your area how likely is that? buggin' in may be a better option (for you ?) especially if your wife will be pressed into service with her medical skills in the public sector. you may have to run security for your wife as she goes to work, and have a trusted partner watch the little ones while your driving your wife to work. stock up on food and water purification first, most likly you will never fire a shot in anger during a SHTF senerio, but you will definately get hungry and thirsty. harden your home as best as you can with contingents on securing windows and doors, (both home and away). many of these can be done with little money invested. buy just a "little extra" food when shopping. buy a water filter from an outdoor camping store. a little hardware upgrade to your windows and doors. you'de be surprised at how little things will help increase your peace of mind. good luck. |
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Trio, you are in the first stage of the most important element to survival - a PLAN. You have some specifics unique to your situation, and some important asets also. You have overlooked one item, both asset and liability. You have a lot of neighbors. If you can hook up with some similar minded folks, you are more able to bug in. Bugging in is usually better than bugging out. Your wife's occupation is more of an asset than you suppose. Even docs find it hard to work if their families are in danger, so it is very likely that whatever location she's working will have made some provision for the family. Failing that, the local PD or EMS would likely appreciate her services and provide for her, and your, safety. Conversely, your wife is a target for dopers as they think docs have drugs. Docs will be in damn short supply when SHTF. A WMD in Washington may not even affect you directly, given the normal wind patterns. Shelter in place will be sufficient unless you are getting fallout from a radiological device. Having said that, your worst nightmare is likely having to bug out with the concomitant gridlocked traffic. Your route may have to get creative, using tertiary roads, rail and powerline rights of way. Your BOV needs to be able to traverse such terrain with your family on board, hopefully its a full sized 4x4 truck. If you are planning on bugging out, where are you going? BO without a destination equals refugee. You may want to find someplace to go, an out of town relative, family friend, etc and perhaps pre-position some supplies. Small children do present a challenge, however, they are not little forever and grow to become an asset in their own right. It is a priority to teach and train your children in necessary skills and proper mindset before the schools and daycare get to them. The most important factor, is your wife's mndset. A supportive spouse is damn near a necessity with small children. Taking care of the children and assuring their safety is a high priority with mothers, and your wife may be pulling the ostrich routine and ignoring a threat she cannot respond to. Having a plan, and a thoughtful discussion of what threats exist and responses to them may allay her fears sufficiently to allow her to become an active participant in response planning. You also may want to attend a campout with the NOVA folks. Lots of training, good folks, and a network of folks to help out will also play into your plans. TJ will b e along sometime and tell you to "Plan for the most likely event first, and the least likely last." Good advice from the other old geezer.. Ops |
Heed this wise advice from fosdick, he makes an excellent point, here. Defending yourself requires a different set of skills than defending your rifle team, squad, etc. You may be the ONLY person able to fight back. Manuever may NOT be an option. For the little ones, it was brought up here recently about those jogging strollers. If you were forced to BO on foot, with wife and children in tow, you could push the children rather than carry them. Less energy on your part, and more comfort for the children, too. Welcome to the forum!  H2F |
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Like Ops said, consider bugging in vs. bugging out. First, during an emergency, your wife will be required to work (assuming she is affiliated with a hospital and doesn't work, say, family practice in a private clinic). If she just didn't show up (in anything less than a TEOTWAWKI situation) she will probably lose her job when the dust settles. Second, normal traffic in NOVA is a nightmare. Now imagine how clogged it would be with everyone trying to get out. And as Ops pointed out, without a prepared destination, you are a refugee. You NEVER want to become a refugee. The only thing that should force you out would be WMD that affects you. Not knowing exactly where you are, I can't say what the impact wold be on you. But you can easily do a damage assessment and plan based on that. Bear in mnd that in an area like NOVA, either get out before everyone else or you're not getting out. Even a dirty bomb in downtown DC probaby wouldn't make it to you. |
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"You may be the ONLY person able to fight back. Manuever may NOT be an option." Don't forget the OTHER half of the "military" equation - fire. It's not just maneuver, it's FIRE and maneuver. Since I have a bad back, I can't maneuver nearly as well as I used to, but I can still fire, and with an AR and a 30-round magazine, I can do plenty of firing. Any able body can help with the firing part, so I wouldn't dismiss them too quickly. Anyway, back to the thread subject, another thing trio might want to keep in mind is long-term planning. The kids won't always be 1 and 3 years old, and if something happens, it might not happen tomorrow(although it doesn't hurt to be prepared in case it did happen tomorrow). It's good to have a plan for now, but your plan will need to evolve as they get older. Also, in your situation, you might be better off trying to find someone else who owns some land out of the city to team up with so you could bug out if things got unsafe where you live.  |
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hey guys, thanks for all the responses.... A couple of things in response... My wife's hospital is woefully unprepared for a situation like this...we are one of the few people that live on the periphery of NoVA and commute AWAY from the area....she is a private practice physician that does report to the hospital...but I have asked her about emergency plans and their response is pretty much...if you arent on call, well then you arent on call....if she IS on call i would pretty much have to shelter in place with her...we have done that small scale through a few snowstorms and when Isabel hit, so we have minor experience with that.... As far as something like hurricanes and storms my scenario would also likely have to be to shelter in place based on her call schedule......if not though, if it is a scenario like katrina where there is adequate warning then I would be gone a week before it arrives (her specialty is not one where she cannot take time off)... Fire and manuver is an excellent point...I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I would be in a scenario with one active fire team member, 2 incapacitated members (the kids) and 1 wounded (the wife, she has some training (from me) but not much)...and that is how we would have to fight....what that means is evade and escape as much as possible...and it means fighting only as a last defensive resort and preferably from a fixed position with superior firepower....there may be tactical scenarios that require me to temporarily leave them to manuver and operate...but a one man fire team is generally a dead man fire team...i would not want to fight...fortunately where I would be going is to like minded people... I guess I should have said that originally...one of the reasons I am sorely tempted to leave is I have like minded friends nearby, in less threatened areas, that I know can offer pooled resources...by myself with my family i am very vulnerable...add in a couple of old buddies...well the equation changes a lot.... thanks...i will add more as i think of it... trio EDIT: Also to add I do have my CCW....I was fortunate enough to train in close quarters and advanced close quarters combat with the SF and Rangers while in the Army (although I was not either of those specialties myself) and did some urban warfare stuff...although, as you point out, that was a lot of 4 man team drills and such...very good point...urban civilian fighting is much different than the infantry platoon... |
I've already evacuated from the NoVA area, so that's one less thing to worry about.... but while DC is the big bulls eye on alot of bad guys' maps, it's also the center of gravity for CONUS so one should assume Congress and POTUS would pull out ALL the stops to bring in relief following any WMD or other disaster. That said, while slugging to the Pentagon one day I struck up a conversation with someone who told me his neighbor worked for an unnamed alphabet agency. They were good friends and never spoke about "certain" topics. But one day, (this was 2005) his friend told him "Bill, I can't tell you why or what I know but if you guys hear/see us loading the family truck at 3am some morning, don't ask about it, just follow suit and head due West". That conversation got me into serious prepping mode - GHB, family BOB, mapping out routes west and south of the I-95 and I-66 perpetual traffic jams and taking the family on impromptu visits to the Skyline just to see if we could pack for a "picnic" in an hour or less. I made sure our vehicles never went below half a tank and that we had 30 gallons of unleaded (STABILized) on hand for an extended bug out. As for women... I think the great majority of them are simply not built to deal with the stress of doomsday scenario preparations.... it's scary so they recoil and choose to think it's impossible or by NOT thinking about it or preparing for it, somehow it makes it 'LESS likely to happen.  At least, that's the distinct impression I get. So make it an innocent "makes me happy and keeps me around the house" hobby and you'll be given more free rein than if you talk about armageddon and zombies (ESPECIALLY ZOMBIES  )
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| Trio, come right on down 81 if you can. their are some really good folks down here in the shenandoah valley, not all by any means but a bunch. and hell, we're gonna be absorbing a lot of the trash, from NoVa, wouldn't hurt to take in some good folks as well. ever consider trying to link up with some other folks from a little further outside the area? or with some folks from within your area, and devising some sort of communal defense and living plan, and some type of "retreat" either in, around, or well outside your A.O.? between your and your wife training, you would both be very valuable assests to a group of the like minded, search out others in your area, or around, to bolster your numbers and bring your "fire team" back up to combat readniness. |