Posted: 3/22/2007 4:51:02 PM EDT
| Any of you gents familiar with the Marmom Dolphin body armor? Your opinions on this as a SHTF body armor would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all. |
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I'm no expert, but from what I've seen, it boils down to 3 factors: 1) what can you afford 2) what can you stand to wear 3) how much protection do you want Pistol rated armor is pretty simple to get and easier to wear. Not too bad on price, either. Rifle rated hard plates cost more, but not too bad if you are willing to wear the older designs that weigh like 12 lbs per plate. The newer designs that weigh about 5 lbs per plate will cost way more. Last I saw it was like $200-300 per old heavy plate vs. over $1000 for the new lighter plates. This is the price for **each** plate. But I haven't been watching the prices for a while so I may be bad out of date. Some guys I know who did security contract work in Iraq said if you expect action you wear rifle plates over soft pistol armor vests. That's a lot of weight and a lot of sweating! And to answer your question, I don't really know about Marmon dolphin body armor. |
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Most of the sheep will have handguns and shotguns, with the occasional deer rifle sprinkled in. Go for level III protection, sufficient against virtually any handgun and should stop 12 gauge too. It's not light and plates make it worse. I suggest something tight fitting and of decent strength material to wear under it, for instance Under Armor heat or cold gear. Vests chafe and you should mitegate this or be used to it before you need it. Consider your budget and level of protection. BA is a trade off between mobility and protection. |
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I'm not familiar with that brand of armor but here's what I CAN tell you. MM is correct on the three factors. There are a few other factors that go into the actual pick and purchase of body armor. First things first is understanding the NIJ rating system. These are the ratings for soft armor and bullet proof helmets and face masks.  Lvl III ICW (in conjunction with a Lvl II soft armor vest) will stop up to .308 AP Lvl III stand alone will stop .308 AP but you don't need a Lvl II vest supporting Lvl IV ICW (in conjunction with a Lvl II soft armor vest) will stop .3006 AP and is typically also rated as Lvl III stand alone Lvl IV stand alone will stop .3006 AP without a Lvl II vest supporting Remember that a good deal of this could be manufacturer specific so read the full details and speak directly with the manufacturer if at all possible. The next thing to keep in mind is the materials. Soft armor: Number 1, Zylon is DOGSHIT!!! Never ever buy Zylon because it literally deteriorates far before its warranty is up and I don't even think they make Zylon vests anymore. The only way to really go is Arymid Kevlar. It is up to you what rating you get but I suggest Lvl II or Lvl IIIA and not to bother with Lvl IIA. If you go brand new from a dealer, expect to pay out the ear. You're looking at around $500-$800 for a new vest. A lot of vest dealers and manufacturers will also refuse to do business with non-LEO and non-security so it can be a pain in the ass sometimes. I personally prefer Ebay...*sigh*... I bought a PSP Lvl IIIA vest from Ebay for $180, worn once and still in warranty until Sep. '09. It was a great deal and I'll never look back. This brings me to another point about soft armor. When it is used, be careful what you buy. Buy within warranty if at all possible and I personally recommend avoiding police surplus vests. The main reason is they were daily wear and if anyone would wear it out, it would be a police officer wearing it for 10 hours a day and rolling it up and stuffing it in a duffle bag and then possibly hanging it vertically, which is a big no no for kevlar. Hard armor: Materials can be very important in survival. Ceramic-Great protection, light weight, comfortable. Sounds great right? For the most part. Here's the problem that I had while looking at ceramic as a possibility for purchase. Typically after they are struck with a rifle round, the fracture to absorb impact and the more they are shot, the more they fracture until there are just a bunch of fragments of a plate that won't do shit. This is fine for military forces or LEO's because if something happens and they are shot and their plate fractures, after the ordeal is over when they go to gear up again, they just get a replacement plate. Ceramic usually runs about $140-$400 per plate depending on protection level, curve, thickness, and weight. Polyethylene- This stuff is pretty cool. Despite being around 1" thick for most plates, it is quite light weight and offers good protection. I do not believe that these plates will fracture like ceramic. The only thing I do not like about these is that A) they are expensive as all hell at $300-$500 per plate and B) they will not protect against AP steel core ammo. Steel- This is what I picked. They are heavier at 6 lbs. per plate (what my Kejos weigh) but they are rather thin. Aside from weight, these things will do it all. They will take several hits and if it is rated to stop it, it will stop it. The worst the plate will do is possibly chip or exhibit mild deformation. In the area that the plate is struck, there is a good chance that something could penetrate if the plate is chipped but the steel will take a beating and keep on offering you a good deal of protection from standard and AP ammo. This is why I got it is I figure if things get bad enough that I need rifle proof body armor, there's a good chance that I won't be able to order more plates any time soon. I decided it was easier to adjust to the weight of the plates and the slightly less comfortable cut/curve than try and adjust to being shot in the chest by an AK-47. Another bonus of the steel plates is they are VERY inexpensive. I paid $120 per plate for mine and they are pure quality. bodyarmour.safeshopper.com/120/469.htm?834 I suggest you build your own vest up and you'll get exactly what you want. I hope this info helps out. |
+1 |
They're obviously designed to be worn vertically and rained and sweated on...but, storing it flat, in a room temperature dry area will help it to retain its ballistic rating for much longer. You need to keep in mind that it is a fabric weave and while you may not think it, gravity can slowly take its toll and shift the weave. That's why I laugh whenever I see the body armor hangers and stuff. It may be a myth but storing my vest flat doesn't inconvenience me at all so why not go ahead and store it flat...it may pay off in the end. I only wear my soft armor on the weekends for work and store it flat and dry the rest of the time so despite the fact that its warranty is up in Sep. '09, it should retain its ballistic rating for considerably longer. I take great care of my vest, store it flat and absolutely avoid rolling it unless I'm taking it in or out of a carrier. |
Not meant to hijack, but............. Futureweapons tested a DragonSkin vest a few episodes ago. They placed it on top of a frag grenade and popped the grenade. They were pretty incredulous that there was no damage to the chest-side of the vest. Not to say I'd be flopping on grenades if I had a DragonSkin, but that was damn impressive. |
I was pretty impressed with it and considering from what I've heard, it is going for about $2000-$2500 per PANEL right now...so I had better be pretty damn impressed...and that's provided that Pinnacle would even sell it to a civie....which I doubt they would. |
What got me was the private operator that didn't even know he'd been shot until he got back to the rear. Talked to him on another board somewhere once, don't remeber which one. Seemed to genuine, tho you can never tell who's a shill these days. Grain of salt, I guess. |
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Dragon skin is great if you can go with the $6000 to $7000 price tag on it!! The public can buy them. A lot of PMC's are using them over in Iraq right now. Never heard of the vest your talking about. If your going for a vest make sure you have extend cover for the side of your body also get the rifle plates you get use to the weight just don't try being cheap and get the steel plates they weigh 9 lbs each. |
Dragon skin failed military tests. Something about delaminating scales. Thats all I know.
Shit, I could tell you a dozen stories of people who were hit in tissue and didn't know until someone told the. Adrenaline does funny things. |
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Check out the arms & tactics sections under tactical gear. There is a whole section devoted to armor. As far as dragon skins goes it failed military tests. one thing i know it failed when shot at from below. If the target was above the shooter like on a roof or turret. Since the scales overlap they have weak points underneath. It's about angles with a system like that. J |
Thats a rumor that has been going around because the goverment was to cheap to buy dragon skin. They have done the test and found that dragon skin was the best. Dragon skin simply the best |
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I had emailed Dragon Skin awhile back & they were quick to respond. FYI Dear IP: Thank you for your interest in the Dragon Skin® rifle defeating body armor. We offer a complete line of body armor from II-A to level III for law enforcement and threat level lV for military. Please see the attached PDF brochure and document. Pricing is based on size and coverage options. We do have the Dragon Skin® in concealed vests also. Please review the information, then, let me know how I can help you. I can be reached toll free at (800) 200-0915 to answer any of your questions. Sincerely, Murray Neal CEO Pinnacle Armor, Inc. 5425 E. Home Ave. #104 Fresno, CA 93727-2106 (800) 200-0915 *TOLL FREE* (559) 320-1221 *VOICE* (559) 320-1229/1230 *FAX* http://www.pinnaclearmor.com |
www.defensereview.com/article827.html www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Special%20Reports%202006.db&command=viewone&id=9 Response to Karl Masters' (US Army) public statements regarding unfinished FAT testing www.pinnaclearmor.com./20060630-pr.php If the troop are asking for it maybe they know best ! I know I will have it if they reactivate me! www.bestarmorfortroops.com/index.htm |
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Occasionally, some good deals will present themselves. My first Level III vest was purchased at military surplus store in Japan, of all places. They had absurd prices on just about everything there, but reasonable prices on what they probably thought was an oddball item. Namely, a U.S. military surplus vest complete with plates. Excellent condition. I think I paid something like 20,000 yen for it, or $300. The second one consists of gunshow-special plates, coupled with a $30 CTD plate carrier. I said it once and I'll say it again, much better to have one rifle and a level III vest than it is to have two rifles and no vest. You could say the same thing about NVDs also, but that is another topic. |
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I appreciate the wealth of information provided here. I was considering another toy purchase, but seeing that youtube thug video kinda changed my mind. hinking.gif Granted, most of those thugs could not hit the ocean from the shore, why take the chance. Also, could you imagine the steep decline in morale among in their ranks knowing that they hit some victim and he kept returning fire.... Anyway, thanks again. |
You're kidding..right? It's not the sheep that will be the problem. It's the predators. Right now I'm issued IIIa and that's what I'll stick with. If I need more than that, I'll get some plates/carriers. |
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I figure I'll share mine. CTD Armor carrier- $50 PSP LVL IIIA Kevlar panels- $185 Kejo LVL III Steel Plates- $240 Soft panels out of the vest  ALICE pack has since been changed to a MOLLE 3 day plus pack  My wife wearing my vest  A solid vest is a fantastic investment. It is a sign of true firearms collection responsibility when you start thinking about the potential consequences of engagement as well as dishing it out. My vest and medical supplies/training just go to show that I've thought about the entire spectrum. Plus, it's nice to think that at least your front and back can take hits from the same exact thing that you're blowin' down range. When I get some more money to invest in it, I'm going to get the following: Probably go with some IBA stuff just because it is easier to find. Upper shoulder pads (up closer to the neck) Collar and Yoke Upper arm protectors Perhaps armpit protectors but I'm not sure about mobility with these Groin protector Also I'd like to get a BATF LVL II or LVL IIIA face mask and a MICH helmet. There's just something about those face masks that I could see scaring the shit out of the enemy.  The nice thing about the ballistic face mask is if you take the pads out of the front of a MICH helmet, the helmet will work ICW with the mask. This would give you doubled up forehead protection. |
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Marom Dolphin armor is manufactured in Israel... It is exactly what it claims it is, also very affordable... Approximately 600 for a IIIA vest and T IV plates... Marom Dolphin armor is made from 100% Kevlar no Zylon/Goldflex or other crap in there. it is also recognized and has been tested by NIJ... Wear with Confidence. On another note, the COndor Plate Carrier and some of the Ciras Knockoffs are OK quality, you can get soft armor for the Cumerbund and front and rear panels for $1 per Square inch from Nick at bulletproofme dot com.. just send him a tracing and you are off... |
"Necessary" probably changes a bit when someone starts shooting at you.  I suppose what you intend to do when you get up that morning might be a factor, too.
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I saw them as more of a way to keep from being shot in the face by a handgun and at best end up with a fucked up jaw or maybe have a round ricochet around inside of my head and drop me...I could be wrong though... 
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