[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Stray Dogs, SHTF and Normal Life (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/18/2007 7:03:48 AM EDT
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The currently running less lethal thread combined with something that happened recently has got me thinking about the issue of stray dogs. I usually keep a can of Fox 5.3 handy for use as a less lethal deterrent for both two and four legged critters. (Mostly the latter.) Since my wife and I are often out-and-about with our three year old in tow, the issue of stray dogs is a real one, even in normal everyday life. The other day my son and I returned home after running some errands. As we were about 50 yards from the house I noticed two large dogs come around the corner of a house....they were healthy adults of a breed that has a reputation for aggressiveness. (I'm just gonna leave it at that.....don't want this thread to turn into one of those dumbass "They're vicious!"--"No they're not!" threads.  )Anyway, I lost sight of the dogs while parking the truck. I took my seatbelt off and turned to reach back to buckle the boy out of his carseat, when I saw the two dogs run up behind the truck. It sent a little bit of a shiver up my spine......these dogs weren't moving like goofy-happy dogs at all. They were moving like they were on the hunt. Both were big, muscular and well-fed--pretty obvious they were somebody's pets even though neither wore collars. They milled around the truck for a few seconds then trotted north. My first thought when I saw them was "they don't look like 'nice' doggies." My second thought was "I'm not getting my son out of the truck until they're a good ways off." My third thought was "Pepper spray? Screw that......I hope my J-frame is good enough. "All well and good....they moved off about 100 yards and were milling around a tree scenting something. I figured that was far enough so unbuckled my son and got out of the truck to open the passenger door to grab him. I didn't figure today would be the best day to let him lollygag his way into the house which is his usual preference. I kept my eye on the dogs as I exit the truck. As soon as I closed the driver's door (which I attempted to do quietly, BTW) both dogs stopped scenting and their heads snapped up. My son by this time had gotten out of the car seat and was waiting to get out. I grabbed him up with my weak hand and closed his door. As soon as the door closed, the closer dog sprinted about 25 yards toward us. I started to walk to the house and had made it halfway there when the dog that was farther away sprinted about fifty yards toward us and stopped. The other dog caught up with him. They both stayed there, staring at us intently while we made our way into the house. No harm, no foul. Once we were in the house I watched them through the window as they headed north again, stopped briefly at the tree they were scenting before, then head out of sight over the hill. So this event occurred during "normal life"......no SHTF here. I didn't have to "draw down" --  -- but had they kept coming at us, I'm not entirely sure we'd have made it into the house before they reached us. A big, fit dog can cover 50 yards pretty quick.....very likely quicker than I can cover 7 yards with a toddler on my hip. In retrospect, I think I handled the situation reasonably well under the circumstances.But, if this were a SHTF situation and I was on foot, armed with a rifle, with wife and son in tow, what would the "best" response be? I like dogs and don't bear them any ill-will. But when I consider the SHTF scenario (two dogs like these appear out of nowhere, aren't overtly threatening but are definitely "interested," and there's no shelter at hand), I'm pretty sure that I'm taking the "shoot first, ask quastions later" stance. What do you guys think? |
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I don't know why but dogs find objects being held a lot more interesting. If some little toy dog is on the ground my dog will check it out and probably try to play with it. If someone is holding that same toy dog my dog will be hell bent on getting to it to check it out. The more the owner of the toy dog tries to keep their dog away from my dog the more aggressive (not vicious, just stubborn) my dog gets. The same thing goes for children being held. They are a lot more interesting. I'm not suggesting you leave your child on the ground with strange dogs around. It's just something else to be aware of from a canine perspective. Me?, I'd leave the child in the truck until I could better determine the dog's disposition or intent. I'd try to spook the dogs away and then bring the child into the house. SHTF or not, IMHO, it should be legal for you to kill loose, unattended dogs on your property. Once you had a couple of kills under your belt the neighbors might start acting a bit more responsible towards how they manage their pets. |
You'd better hope it's not my golden retriever who you shoot as he comes running up to you to lick you....  Sorry, you don't have a right to kill a dog just because it's on your property any more than you have the right to kill a neighborhood boy who is running across your lawn headed to the creek. |
In most places in the rule books animals are livestock. They aren't beloved pets under the law. I don't kill neighborhood children or dogs that find themselves on my property because I play a little game each day that's called abiding by the law. Even if I don't personally agree with it. I have a dog and it is my responsibility to keep him under control (that means off other people's property ) at all times. Not just when it's convenient for me. I use either a leash or an e-collar to control my strong-willed dog. I'd rather make my dog uncomfortable or unhappy than have my good neighbors be inconvenienced by him regardless of his intent. You might think it's sweet that your dog wants to play with the neighbor's child as they get out of the car but it's not your decision. Wait for your neighbors to invite you over when they want playtime with the dog. Say the neighbors kid takes a big, thick stick and puts it about 10 inches up your dogs ass and your dog retaliates by biting him. Your dog will be sent to doggie jail death row because you weren't responsible. Think about it. |
Lets keep this as unheated as possible. I'm concerned about this as well. I have been charged while with my wife and kids by a dog that was in a "business-like" mood. Dogs can be predatory and can be a threat. We have an emotional concern because they are supposed to be man's best friend. If a wolf, coyote, or even a little kit fox approached you in the same manner what would your reaction be? I think it's a good idea to try to see if the dog is under the control of or traveling with people. Then stop the dog verbally, if the dog changes it's demeanor and approaches in a submissive manner move away from your kids and greet the dog while prepared to defend your self. If the dog continues in an aggressive manner and does not accept your dominance well, put him in his place permanently. No one benefits from an aggressive dog running loose. No one is harmed by a friendly dog running loose. I think it's usually obvious which side of the line the dog is on. Obviously if the dog seems to be defending territory instead of out hunting go around regardless of its demeanor or breed. And yes I'd take breed into account. I recently stopped on the side of the road to take care of a brittany and a lab that were collared and running around on the highway. They were a long way from where they should have been, there were not people around, they were hunting dogs and responded reasonable well to commands considering I wasn't their owner. I would not have stopped for some other breeds. JMHO |
| I would be concerned about dogs that were obviously diseased (in a serious SHTF situation, mange willl come back with a vengeance), but in a pack, the only dogs I have ever had issues with was (seriously) a pack of five weiner dogs that bit the crap out of my ankles (it was a mess, the woman who owned them called the cops on me, three weeks of paperwork, etc., etc.). Dogs like the sound of my voice and I have defused a lot of pack issues by telling them all that they are "good dogs" in my nicest tone of voice. They pin their ears back and look at me like I am spoiling their fun and walk away with their heads and tails down, looking at me out of the corners of their eyes. It has worked for me with pits, rotties, GSD, labs, and other large, strong dogs, except with those damned weiner dogs. I even chastized a pair of chows to the point that they stopped growling at me and trotted home. So I am not that worried about dog packs. |
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I live the ghetto and every punk has a pit bull that they let run loose. I carry a nice 3/8" carbon steel rod about 3 foot long. The thing is heavy enough to crack a skull and thin enough to use a puncture weapon if I stab with it. I'll use it like the military taught me to use the baton except I'm going to aim for all the spots that they told me not to aim at. The older neighbor across the street has been attacked three times and bitten twice. He use to carry a broken golf club with the working end broken off. I told him that it was worthless. On the third attack he managed to knock the dog a couple of times ... with little to no effect. Now the guy has stepped up  to a three foot lenght of broom handle. I've offered him the steel rod option but he's going to wait for another attack. When I'm working in the yard I've got a S&W 85 always at the ready.
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In that situation, I'd think a little dog harvesting would be in order. Stray dogs with no food source will quickly revert back to wolf mentality. Killing them is a public service if the SHTF. Dogs generally don't scare me, and they know it and keep their distance. Dogs CAN small fear and dogs trust YOUR instinct. If you are scared, they believe, as you do, that they can take ya down. |
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Depends on where I am living in the past Stray Dogs were DRT, if a dog looked like it had an owner and had wondered off the situation was evaluated. Dog not posing a problem leave it alone, minor problem, contact owners, serious problem DRT. Where I live now I try to avoid them, a threatening dog will be put down. If you have pets keep them in your own yard. |
Actually where I live you do have the right to kill a dog on your property that is causeing damage.......I let my dog run when the sun goes down and neibhors know her and she knows them. If you have a breed that has a bad rep (deserved or not) Someone is more likely to shoot them if they are loose....I love Dogs but we had two huge pits get loose in my neibhoorhood and My dog was out(chaained) I grabbed the .45 and would have killed them both if they would have jumped on my dog. They went right on by so no problem. |
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I was a teenager on the back porch of Dad's farmhouse cleaning guns when a car stopped down the road 100 yards or so. The occupants of the car dumped a collie in our field where the cows were calving. Cattle will often abandon a calf if stressed by a dog. She sees the wolf in the dog and she is a prey species of wolves. I fired a 170 grain lead point bullet from a 30-30 into the dog for giving my calves the look. It turned the dog inside out. I got the plate off the car and the sherrif's deputies were at the peoples house when they got home. They got a big fine for the dumping of a dog in our field. With the baby calves and the afterbirth I doubt that that dog would have went a day without attcking a calf. |
An animal is a LOT different than a human being. If an animal moves agressively toward you, on your property, unattended, etc., you damn well DO have every right to shoot it. If you don't like it, keep your doggies off others property. 
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Thank you, gents, for your commentary. In reading through your responses, and thinking about the original situation that I detailed, I can see that I made some mistakes. Mistake #1: Overall, I disdn't listen to the little voice in my head that was telling me that these dogs were "bad actors." I didn't pay attention to the fact that they made the hair on the back of neck stand up. I'm not a "dog n00bie." I should've paid attention to that fact that I got a really bad vibe from these dogs and I should've stayed put in the truck with my son until they were out of eyesight. (The topography in the area would've obviated the possibility that they were out-of-view but still sneaking up on us.) Mistake #2: I should've gotten out of the truck myself without getting my kid out and waited to let the dogs "declare" themselves. I shouldn't have gotten my son out without knowing how the dogs would react......or I should've waited 'til they were out of view then hustled my son inside. If they'd menaced me, outside the truck, I could've jumped back in, yelled at them or, worst case scenario, shot 'em. So, as far as this situation goes, I think I could have done things a bit better and I'll try to do so in the future. One of the previous posters mentioned "threat assessment" with respect to dog encounters. This is right on the money.......I've been approached by countless dogs over the years and I've "made friends" with most of them. The ones that I wasn't able to make friends with just kept their distance. In all of those encounters, I have not run into a dog, or pair of dogs, that exuded the malevolence that this pair of dogs did. In a SHTF scenario, if I run into a pair of dogs that gives me the "heebie jeebies" like these dogs did, I'm gonna shoot 'em before they get anywhere near my wife or kid. |
I'm really not trying to stir anything up, but I don't understand why people think that it is OK to let their dogs run around on other people's property, no matter what the breed. I know my neighbor and my neighbor's dog. They are both nice. That being said, I really hate looking out my window and seeing the neighbor's dog squatting on my lawn. Sorry if I offend you, but I think it is a responsibility of a dog owner to keep them on their property. I would never harm a dog trespassing, unless it was threatening my family. Afterall, I have a dog myself .
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I don't think anyone said it was OK for you to let your dog roam wild. But how many of us have dogs that HAVEN'T gotten away and run around at least once? What pisses me off are these internet commando trigger happy JACKASSES who would sit there on their porch just WAITING to shoot any dog that dared to cross their property line. I'm glad I don't have neighbors like that. It's one thing if a dog is being a threat. It's another thing if you just like killing things. |
| Unfortunately dogs can't verbalize their intentions. Barking and growling, in and of themselves, mean nothing. I've had more than one dog run up to me snarling and baring teeth, fully believing I was about to be attacked and ended up petting it on the head and having it follow me home. On the other hand, I've had seemingly friendly dogs nip at me when they walked around for a sniff. All I can say is be prepared, but don't make assumptions either way. In a SHTF situation I'd much rather the local packs be on a friendly basis with me as, if nothing else, they make a great sentry system. But no, if they are a danger there is no problem with instant euthanasia. |
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I had a neighbor dog that loved to crap in my yard as the owner would turn him out, then close the door and go back inside oblivious as to where his dog went and what he did for an hour or so. He always did this at the crack of dawn hoping nobody would notice. I noticed. I put a Sleepy Creek 1.5 leghold in front of a dirt hole set in my yard and baited it with sardines. The next morning, the owner let his dog out to run the neighborhood and closed the door as usual. The mutt dutifully trotted over into my lawn, giving it the once over looking for the perfect spot to dump a load. It took about 3 minutes for that idiot mutt to get caught. A few minutes later, I called the owner on the phone demanding that he come get his dog out of my trap and threatened to sue him for the damage to my lawn where the dog was scratching. He wasn't a happy camper having to actually get his lard ass dressed and fight to remove a trap from his dogs foot in my front yard at 6:30 an a Saturday morning as me and my Aussie stood by and watched. Never had any more problems though. |
I'm glad I don't have neighbors like that too.....but how 'bout we all agree to not push that particular line of discussion? This is the Survival Forum, not GD. This thread is about dogs that pose a threat to your family, not about dogs that happen to wander onto your property. 
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| Shoot to kill, anything worth shooting once is worth shooting again. When the police use dogs they are deemed 'weapons' - going off of that logic and the fact that it is reasonable to justify a dog can easily kill a small child - you are justified in shooting people's loose animals in your yard as long as they are believably dangerous in appearance. |
Your V8 might be unleashed, but your dog shouldn't be. Granted, I just run the tame ones off my property due to kindness, but reserve the right to shoot them with my suppressed .22LR if they're causing problems. |
| My two cents worth is a bit more straightforward. After your event, I would have called the police and informed them of the situation. In PA, Title 18, section 500 states that you are allowed to use whatever force deemed necessary to defend yourself, your family and your property. After informing the police of the issue, a recurrence would be met by two quick kills. If the owner balks, you can sue him for duress and any number of animal ordinances. Easy call. I love dogs, but a threat is a threat. |
I did call the police-- figured it was my civic duty. |
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feral: When my daughter was born I was unemployed. I took up the role of stay-at-home dad. I'd take her for a walk regularly. Neighbors a half block away had a dumber-than-dog shit dalmation with an agressive side. They'd let teh damned thing wander the neighborhood. I was out walking my daughter (in her stroller) when this dog runs snapping and growling out of the shrubs (not anywhere near the owners home). Whoa. I did not draw, but was damned well and ready to do so. It backed off. This little event was repeated again a day or two later... I contacted animal control and filed a complaint. The repsonse was: yah, we know about that one... Later yet I had my daugther in her swing beside me while I washed the car. Out comes dumbass the dalmation, on MY lawn, growling at me. My response was the same: ready to shoot the damned thing. I did call teh owner and 'discussed it" with her. Her response" Everbody in the neighborhood loves my dogs. She's really friendly. My response; Sorry, but no. Everyone doesn't love dog shit on their lawn, and this is teh third time your dog acts agressively with me and my daughter. Next time it makes an agressive move I've killing it... I was also very careful to file a complaint with animal control/police each time. I wanted a paper trail estabilishing this dogs behavior. Also explained to teh police in great detail that I was very much afraid for the safety of myslef and that of my daughter (aged 6 weeks). The response was: if it attacks you, shoot it... If dogs are acting in a manner that requires force to dissude them, use a bullet... I don't shoot dogs as a matter of course. However, when I'm not on their turf, and have not provided any rationale reason for aggressive behavior, and I am attacked, the animal is going down... Which gets me on another pet peeve: Dogs running deer. In late winter deer are on teh thin edge of survival. Thye really are stressed. And along comes some idiot who lets their dogs run free in a deer yard. Fluffy is just playing with them! NOT. Its play to the dog, and death to the deer. Not only is this very irresponsible, its highly illegal. I've owned dogs and loved em. But I kept em under control and I accepted my responsiblity as an owner. |
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I have shot dogs. I did not like it. The dog in the story above was DUMPED by it's owners. Shithead was telling his kids how happy Fluffy would be in the country. This dog was dumped by asshat owners without care to my property. Calving cows are very jumpy about dogs chasing and harrassing them. The property of the SHITHEAD was dumped as if it were trash in a manner that was not good for the property that was lawfully in our fields. It lost its right to live through the actions and ommissions of it's owner. We had 3 or 4 strays show up every year. They got a meal and a ride to the pound. The only ones I ever shot were either harrassing livestock or feral. |
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The original topic of this thread isn't 'what would you do if your neighbors dog comes onto your property to take a crap' but is 'what would you do if a dog aproached you acting like a predator'. There is a huge diffrence between a dog aproaching you as a pet, aka non-threatening, and a predator. Their body language is completly diffrent and noticable. That's not to say dogs aproaching you non-threateningly can't become threats... Dogs, at their base level, are predators and can distinguish between prey and other predators. If you remmember that humans (aka YOU) are predators also and act like it, they will usually leave you alone so long as they arn't being prompted by outside factors (such as their owners proding them on after having trained them). That dosn't cover dogs wondering in your yard to leave you a steaming pile of goodness. For the sake of sanity, go talk to their owners. And if that dosn't work call animal control. Most places have leash ordances because of jerks who let their dogs do whatever they would like. In a SHTF senario, shoot dogs if they become a problem (aka feral dogs start attacking people ext). Yes I am a dog owner, and take responsibility for my german shepard. People who don't take responsibility for their animals piss me off, but I am not waiting in front of my house waiting to kill thoes people pets. It's not the animals fault that their owner is a 
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| Usually it's easily to read a dog's intentions. If I feel that a dog is a threat to me, I will get a little defensive, and try to startle it away, but if it is charging me then it's dead. The mistake most people make is that all dogs are good dogs. Dogs were domesticated, and before that they were vicious pack hunters. You need to remember that. |
I have taken to carrying an expandable baton mounted on my bicycle when I ride. I seem to have fewer problems with dogs now, it seems dogs can sense my "Go ahead, make my day" attitude, and steer clear. |
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Interesting thread, and one that can get emotional in a hurry. To preface: I am a dog lover, have had a dog since I was 4 years old. All of these dogs were family pets and household protectors. So this being said, here goes the shit storm... I grew up in the country and we had, like most rural areas, a number of family dogs that wondered around, and transient dogs that you didn't recognize. The former were not the ones to worry about (one neighbor's dog did get in our chickens on occasion), it's the latter that were the trouble makers. I got cornered in the barn once by one of the transient dogs. It was a large mutt with a lot of rotty in him. He was mostly interested in the rabbit hutch, but he was not shy of me in the slightest. All I had was an old board for deterrent duties. I wacked that dog over the head and face three times as hard as I could (I was 12 at the time) before he decided rabbit (or me) was not worth the fight. When I told my dad about it he relayed the story to the sheriff ( a family friend) and he indicated that a dog matching the description had killed a neighbors sheep, and had a stand-off with a the owner (a tough-as-nails older lady). That dog ended up getting shot by a neighbor about a mile away for coming after his dog. This stray was not rabbid, just mean. I own property in the country where there is a fair number of dogs that run about loose. None of them has scared me, but if one shows signs of aggression I will put it down. I'll dig a hole and dump it in and that will be that. Sorry, after my experience as a kid, I have full respect for what a large, stray dog can do. |
You better hope that all your dog does is lick people. I have been an Emergency Room Nurse for a long time now and I can't tell you how many times people have come to the ER bitten by the dog that "NEVER BIT ANY ONE BEFORE". Don't get me wrong, I love dogs and am in the process of looking for another right now. But you can't let your dogs run around and hope for the best. I was out with my 2 little daughters in the forest for a hike when 2 idiots let their small pack of dogs loose to run around and they ran right at us barking and snarling like all get out. I put the girls behind me and pulled the .45 and cocked it. I was about 1/4 of a second away from pulling the trigger when the dogs stopped coming at us and all stood there barking but not advancing any further. The 2 morons came running up yelling at me for pointing a gun at their dogs telling me they never bite anyone. Like I haven't heard that before. Anyways, i'm glad I didn't have to shoot someone's dogs. Would rather shoot the irresponsble pet owner actually. But you know what they say, don't get between Momma and her cubs. |
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One piece of this puzzle that hasn't really come up is where is the dog's (or dogs') owner. Erring on the side of shooting a dog that's acting a little mean might escalate the situation to the point you have to shoot a person. If you've got the time to evaluate fully or avoid the situation all together do so. I kicked a dog in the teeth when it was biting at my feet one day when I was out for a run (I came to a complete stop and tried to talk to the thing before I kicked it) and I'm lucky the owner wasn't armed because he was right there, did nothing to control his dog and was enraged when I kicked. Course I just ran away and let him be pissed. I think I had stood around we would have had an escalation. |
Wait until you see a real dog pack out in the open, not just two dogs, that will give you a very primal feeling. Also makes you a believer in high capacity mags. I have plenty of dog gone bad stories. Dogs are a serious issue now, and will be in any situation. The dog I DIDN'T shoot. The dog who was stalking me on my own property. The dog whose owner I tracked down and told what issues she was going to have with that dog. A few months later that dog stalked, attacked and tore the ear off a 5 year old kid two doors down from me. If you have a vibe about a dog on your property, shoot it. |
As a cyclist, I've had run-ins with many types of dogs on a regular basis for over 35 years and I've pepper sprayed hundreds of them. Fox Labs has the best stuff and it will stop them in an instant except for the rare case. The only dogs it doesn't stop are pitbull types. Fortunately, it will slow them down and so far I've been able to outrun them after a quick shot of Fox. If the SHTF, I will be more willing to use deadly force on feral dogs if the situation requires and if we have TEOTWAWKI come upon us, well, we'll do as needed. Because dogs can be very beneficial in SHTF conditions, particularly as a constant alarm system, it will pay to take good care of them to avoid their loss. |
Bullshit. I get so tired of people placing the blame on others for their lack of control towards their pets. I have 2 German Shepards and one Bernese Mtn dog. They are extremely large animals and I keep them under tight control because of their size. If someone shot them because I had accidently let them escape I sure as hell wouldn't blame the shooter. I have infants and children in my house and on my property. Any animal that is on my property and is acting in the slightest bit unrestrained and provocational will be targeted without hesitation. Will I pull the trigger? If my dogs don't take care of the sitution by themselves then it depends upon the situation but you had better believe I won't hesitate to shoot to protect my children. Don't want to run the risk? Then keep your dogs under control and accept the consequences if you do not. In a SHTF scenario, any non-human that wanders onto my property is a source of protein. |
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it sucks to kill people's pets. OTH, you can draw on a dog and not go to jail, therfore if in doubt and being chased / threatend / stalked / by an unknown dog draw. What you do after that is dependent on the situation. If you don't carry, well, form your own plan. I make a point to know and give treats to all dogs in the hood, the know me and my voice and smell, they are never aggressive around my land. |
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I know most if not all the dogs that live in my area, none are the menacing type. About 8 goldens, a couple of labs, a dalmatian and a pug. A few of them like to roam and I've interacted with all of of them, I haven't had any of the hair raising experience. Thankfully none of the dogs were in hunting mode, they just wanted to play, I always keep a watchful eye but I am far from draw-down mode. Now if there were a couple of rotalligatorwolfpitbull types without collars and I had a small child I'd do the same as you. -JTP |
| If it or they are that big,aggressive and runs at me or my family,the dog goes down. You can tell if a dog is going to attack or just playing. If your dog is aggressive and a pet,keep them locked up or what happens is what happens. Nuisance strays are shot around here. Maybe that is why I haven't seen any strays out here much. I live in the country. |
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I think if you shot two dogs that was standing on your property and just "giving you the eye" in most places you would probaly go to jail and probably deserve too. If it was an umpopular breed like a pit or somthing and if you were a good talker you might get out of it. But if it were some big dumb mutts owned by little Timmy down the street who has photos of them as puppies to show the news media,...well you are looking at big trouble. A different story if the dogs were actually going to attack you or were attacking you. Don't think you would get far with the judge by telling them that you thought they were thinking about doing something bad so you plugged them....wouldn't help that you were shooting a high powered gun around the neighbors houses to pot them with either. I certainly think in a perfect world all dog owners should keep thier dogs on thier property, I know I do, but imagine what would happen if everybody started to shoot the neighbors dogs that came in thier yard and acted funny, eh? Now I've shot stray dogs that were actually chasing horses but don't think i would shoot one that was just standing there thinking about it. I had a neighbor that had a nasty Chow dog who used to come in my yard. Didn't really bother me but I told the neighbor that my wife put her pit dog out on a cable to run a couple times a day and there would be trouble if his dog came over when her dog was out. His response was don't worry his dog can take care of himself. Sure enough I go out one day and theres his dog dead as Abe Lincoln with it's head torn half off and her dog didn't even have a scratch. Our dog was on our property and on it's cable and his dog had been running loose so he couldn't really do anything but get pissed. ...Year or so later my wife put her dog out early in the morning, still dark and raining, and another neighbors kid about 15 walked though our yard. Dog runs hits the end of the cable and breaks it's collar! Nails the kid right off the bat, I get out there and the dog is hanging off this kids arm and things are plenty exciting. I had a heck of a time getting the dog off him, had to block off the dogs nose and twist the hell out it's ear befor he let go and I could get a rope around his neck. Kid had to get 19 stiches, I am convinced if I wasn't there the dog might have killed him. Wasn't a real big pit, about 50 lbs but like they say it's not how big the dog is in the fight it's how big the fight is in the dog....and this dog sure had plenty of fight! .... I paid the kids hospital bills and slipped them some extra $ to take care of things pointing out that the kid was trespasing on our property. I do think they could have sued me though if they were smart but then if they were smart they would have told thier kid not to walk though my property. Animal controll came out to check the dog out, after the first vist they came back in 10 days to make sure the dog was still alive [ guess to check for rabies, though our dogs had thier shots]. Is funny but the second time they just listened to the dog though the door and said that was good enough it sounded healthy! After this it became apparent that we would either have to get rid of the dog or move...and I sure wasn't going to get rid of our dog so we moved .......Todd |
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It is unfortunate that the "agressive breeds" have become so popular with poeple in society that have limited ability or no desire to be socially responsible. My view is based on some things. Ferral dogs have been a real threat to our troops in Iraq. Now when I see one of these "agressive breed" dogs I think it is a dumped or abandoned fighting dog. I've had to pay for livestock that a bad dog of mine had killed. My current policy I won't have a threat dog arround (see Zoub's post, the Iraq threat and people mauled by dogs) I won't keep a problem dog (Happy neighbors are better) The last time I had to implement this pollicy. I made the dogs know that I was top predator, and My territory is MINE. I donated some urine to a paper cup then marked every tree, pole, building corner, and fence post for about 300 yards. Animal controll got them a couple days later, in another part of the complex. In marking your territory, make your mark higher than a big dog can aim, and use an adult male for the marking agent. [Calvin]I love being male [/Calvin]Edit for clarity |
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A SHTF question. Can you say Fresh Meat. Well it is a SHTF situation so you need to take what nature is handing you. AS for another dog story I've got one,no three. My dog and I have been attacked on more then one occasion. As usual the small dogs here in the apartment complex feel that K is a push over. Well one came running out acting all mean and nasty and got up in her face and the next thing I know K reaches out with her right front paw and smacks this terrier on the head. Of course the terrier turned tale and ran back to its owner. Another fool who lets their dogs run free. Then the landlords dog one day turned and started running towards me. K responded by positioning herself between me and the landlords dog. K stood that dog straight up on its hind feet and took it down to the ground. One combination growl and bite at the other dogs neck and the fight was over with. The landlords dog rolled over on its back in a submissive posture and that pretty much was the end of that engagement. Just recently we were out for our last walk of the day around 9pm when 2 dogs came around the corner and stopped. K was busy watching a cat walk across the parking area and hadn't see the two dogs yet. I stood there for a moment unsure what to do. I was not sure of the dogs intentions and was thinking that I should probably take the leash off of K in case a fight was to happen. K then turned around and just stared at the 2 dogs who then turned and went the other way. K is a sweetie who weighs in at 104 pounds and stands 26 inches at the shoulder. K is a Dogo Argentino. I wouldn't have any other breed even though they are very challenging to share ones life with. There can be no ambiguity about who is the pack leader with this breed. They are smart, strong and can be very dominating if you allow them. |
Don't think I would shoot a dog peeing in my yard but if I saw some strange guy walking around the neighborhood with a cup of his piss splashing it on trees, buildings and fence posts I might would have to pot him just on principle ! Pretty funny story I guess but I can't see a dog giving a hoot about if a person peed on a tree or not......Todd |
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Problem dogs are dead dogs in my town. Our neighbors and myself have talked to local law enforcement about this issue and the law states here that a dog doing damage to property can be shot. That said, first response would be a non lethal one followed quickly by a lethal one. I am not one to kill a dog for being on my property or running at me and growling/barking. The latter usually ends up with the dog backing down. I have on occasion had to kick or hit a dog but usually a firm voice or standing my ground will take care of the problem. When we first moved in, my neighbor had 4 geese that he kept behind a fence. They were great as an alarm system but all ended up dead when a crackhead neighbor about a block down let his pit off the line for a little exercise. The dog jumped the fence and killed all his geese and a few chickens. None of us were around for the issue or we would have taken care of the problem. This is a neighborhood that looks after each other. The pit's owner was convicted of selling drugs from the house about 3 months later. Not sure what happened to the dog. I still have a problem with the new neighbors rottie and their lab mix. They are always trying to get to my lab (for play) in his run and when we have him out for training or exercise. They also crap all over my yard. If that rottie comes in the yard he always gets special attention because of his breed. I personally have never had any problems with a pit or a rotweiller but will continue to profile by breed. I have 4 boys 6 and under and this 120+ lb. dog would have no problem with any of them. I ordered a airsoft pistol to deter them from the yard but it hasn't arrived yet. If the owners won't listen and keep the dogs on their property then a little discomfort for the dog may fix the problem. Be responsible and take care of your dog and neighbors by keeping your dog where he/she belongs. Don't think the neighbors love the dog and don't mind you letting it loose in the neighborhood just because they tell you that. They probably are trying to make good with relations or are non confrontational and wouldn't tell you how they felt anyhow. A loose dog is a problem dog even if it is a golden or a lab and would only lick you to death. |
I'll only address the SHTF situation because I don't want to deal with the non SHTF irresponsible pet owner issue(big pet peev(sp?) of mine. SHTF= Muzzle of firearm aimed at the animals at all times until you and family are in good shelter. If they get so close as to be able to rush to you(if they were to choose to) before you could react, then shoot them then and there. The consequences of an attack are to great to wait to see if they rush you. That's all there is to it.
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