So looking more and more up on the uses of the military poncho and as we all know the liner is great in or out of it!

So I had a few ideas and wanted to see if anyone has toyed with it or not will it work or is it a bust? We all know that the liner can connect to the poncho. We also know that you can place a zipper on the liner to make it a thin sleeping bag.

What I'd like to find out is can you place a zipper on the poncho to make it kind of like a sleeping bag with the liner? Next I'd like to know if anyone has placed a zipper on the liner so that something like a fleece blanket could be zipped in?

I ask because my son has to do his castaway for webelos and must make his own shelter and thought that a poncho and liner sleeping bags would be a great shelter and better if you could add a thin blanket to it.

Tell me what you think sorry is spelling and grammar is bad really sleepy got back from the worse two night of sleep I have ever had in a tent.

I know I'm going to catch some flack for saying it, but my personal opinion on military poncho liners is that they're an outdated piece of equipment.  Military folks remember them fondly as it was a piece of functional gear that was issued, thus authorized, that they could curl up with when trying to grab some much needed sleep.  You can get better quality and more function equipment on the civilian side.  The ultralight movement really spurred some advances in multi-function, lightweight gear and there are multiple websites where folks discuss all things lightweight.  

Disclaimer, I did Scouting a long time ago and I'm not familiar with whatever requirement you're talking about.  If I'm reading what you wrote correctly it sounds like you are basically wanting to make a bivy sack out of a poncho, liner and a blanket.  I like a poncho for hiking but I don't really like them as a tarp; for starters, you've got to take it off to set up your shelter then take the shelter down before you can put it back on.  secondly, I've never really had good luck using a poncho as a shelter in bad weather partially because of the head opening.  I'd much rather have a bit larger lightweight tarp and a sleeping bag; the larger tarp will give you more setup/design options depending on your situation i.e. climate, rainfall, snow, wind, natural building/shelter elements, etc.  I'm not sure how much thought and effort a kid is going to put into this so keeping it simple and easy for him to set up is is probably best (not knocking your kid- just knowing how kids can be when they'd rather be doing something else like making fire, carving, finding bugs or general exploring and goofing off in the woods).

JMHO

ETA- I'm guessing this is the requirement that you're going for?

I hear you but the poncho is much more useful then a regular bivy sack in my experience. I can use the poncho for a few things from making a small pup tent to makin a nice waterproof and wind proof lean to shed, also in what it was made for that is poncho with a warm liner and I feel if the zipper can be added to the poncho and liner you have a light weight waterproof sleeping bag for the desert area.

I'm trying to get the boys into light weight camping. We all need something for rain so why not combine rain gear with sleeping gear of you can and if your weather allows you?

Just did a campout this weekend and it was 68 degs at night high wind and in shorts and t shirt I myself was to warm with the poncho liner on.

The Castaway is new for me also but it is to teach the boys more survive skills build shelter make meals without pots and pans  make a fire without matches. Not 100% sure what all the requirements are.

Just feel the poncho is a great survive tool and so much more after how many times I have seen Les use it and praise it! Then add the liner to it and being able to make a WP sleeping bag.

Not saying that this is perfect but in the Desert where you don't need a heavy sleeping bag or bivy sack that is only made for one person. I can advise the boys to make something that I hope works for them but can also be useful if there is more then one person!

Yes I was military and love and still love my liner also everyone in my family does also! There is something about it that people love! Yet will say love my Lama wool blanket the best wish I could attach that to a poncho.

http://store.oldgrouch.biz/lobrpolisywi.html

http://www.boyscouttrail.com/webelos/webelos_adventures.php

I agree with Sandboxmedic.

I spent many nights shivering, inside, with only a poncho liner.  And I have about 6 of them to choose from.

No idea on the answers to your questions.

If this for the Weblos merit badge, they may not let him bring anything. When I did it for Boy scouts, we only had our clothes. No light,  10 essentials,  and sure as hell no camping gear. Totally fails the point of the overnight sleep out.

I’m intrigued by the way this requirement is worded. It doesn’t say explicitly that the boy has to stay in the shelter overnight.

Compare this to the wording of the ol’ Wilderness Survival Merit Badge:

(emphasis added)

When I looked it up I was surprised as well, it's really pretty ambiguous.  Scouting has changed so much since I took part in it I wouldn't know where to start and I'm sure we'd get tossed out for stuff we did.

Yeah, good point. They changed a LOT since I was in 20 years ago.

Weblos might get to skip the overnight.

Pro tip: don't put your shelter over an ant hill.







In all fairness, my shelter kept getting dismantled and I had to really improv on the day of the "final."

I have only one Weblos II that has to do this for his arrow of light and that is my son. He will be doing one maybe two nights.

My idea is to set up like we are going to be only doing a day hike 20 miles away from where we started is where I drop the map and compass and make him/them do land navigation, they will have to build there own shelter also come up with was to ration there food.

No tents, no sleeping bags, only items you would bring on a day trip.

Maybe extra pair of socks,shirt, pocket knife or multi tool, hydration pouch/ canteen, snack, rain gear and small first aid kit.

They are not going to have a lot with them my son has always carried a survival kit even in his day pack I'm going to suggest that to everyone else but not going to push it. This is going to be use only what you have on hand deal.

I'm going to make this as close as to real life as I can. That's why they are going to have to do land navigation  to get us back to our  where we started. I'm going to just be there to advise and make sure they are safe.

20 miles?

Yep why not? I hiked that carrying a 240G in 8 hours then had to do a raid when I was in the Marines!

That is 2.5 miles an hour the average human walks 3.1 and that is also to take in affect they are kids.

It's not asking much that a 10+ year old boy carrying 10 lbs at most to be able to walk 2.5 miles an hour! Really is it?

Truth it's going to take more then 8 hours as there will be stops and areas that the boys will learn!

It's not asking to much of them! Not at all as it is a lot less then what the average MPH a human walks! They are not weighed down.

Also is 20 miles so harsh? Family has done that and then some in one day!

Not my fault if a child is not physical able to complete this hike! I'm looking at that for my sons Arrow of Light the rest of the kids can take the pu$$y a$$ route next year! This is voluntary for all but my son that he is more then happy to do this!

20 miles is not much and it's a real test of skills not to close that it's an hour or so walk from where they need to be. I believe it is that most people get lost in less then 5 miles from there interested place!

Why I don't do that? Easy give the boys a challenge! Easy with a map and compass to get to a point less then 5 miles! Yet when they make it to Scouts how many 5 mile only hikes did you make?

I did not do any only 5 mile hikes longest I did was 30 miles one way and wish I was taught what I know now! Wish they would have taught and made us do land have a map and compass of the area. Made us carry a survival kit even if we did a short hike!

I'm adding life skills on top of Scout skills! Most kids will drop out of scouts around 7th or 8th grade yet skills they have be taught and they learned will still with them forever!

This is why I push my son and any kid that is with me. Hell most of the kids at the campout had running shoes on and shorts looked like they where going to play a sport not camp! Only one child had a hydration pack on him! Some boys had sandles on along with there parents! Just teaching the truth to the boys in away that also keeps them safe!

20 miles is a lot in a day if most of your life is spent in front of a TV or computer screen!.........

No ideas and no one has done anything like this?

That's ok if I do that project I'll post since I was given an awesome sewing machine.

I've seen this done in the past, so I know you can do it.  The only issue with sealing your liner up too much with a waterproof poncho is condensation, which you need to be cautious of.  On the expensive side, Wilderness Innovation just introduced their (expensive) version of a poncho liner that mates to their "poncho survival shelter); it connect with snaps, so it will have a little more draft but is likely better at combating the condensation challenge.

What's the age of Webelos, 10-11?  Day-hiking 20 miles is a significant distance and often only well conditioned, experienced backpackers do those kinds of distances.  Most kids can barely do a five mile day hike these days.  You know your son the best and my son did ran barefoot 6 miles (yes, you read that right), over Blood Mountain, with a 28 pound pack.  We've done numerous 30-50 mile backpacking trips, but usually kept our daily distance around 15 miles.  With a day pack, and terrain dependent, we could have done 20 miles for a single day...it would be hard to maintain that distance for 3-4 days though.

Back to the poncho and poncho liner. They are manageable combo for the price, but there are other options.  My son borrowed (and has kept) my HPG Mountain Serape and used that with a SOL Bivy.  I still like having a small tarp or poncho for overhead cover as that is the hardest part of a shelter (and takes the longest) to improvise.  Debris huts are the most effective (depending on your local environment and resources), but man, that is time consuming!  It took my son and I together two hours to build a debris hut designed for one.  I only point this out as doing 20 miles won't leave you much daylight to gather many materials...just something to consider and why I always recommend carrying a few shelter basics even for a day-hike.

A poncho and liner would work, but I still think you need the basics of a shelter for protection from the wind, possibly overhead protection and plenty of insulation from the ground...

I love the challenge as it really develops the cognitive skills necessary to use minimal gear, integrated terrain and natural resources, build confidence, and master one's youthful fears.  There are few other "coming of age" challenges in today's society.  Make sure you get some good pictures and follow up with an After Action Report!

ROCK6

I understand that 20 miles might be much but I want the boys to experience real life!

I have scouts that feel 1.5 miles to the turn around point that it's so far!! My kids take the dogs on a 3 to 6 mile walk each day!

Wusses. My first hike on my 6th birthday was 3 miles.  


Don't think I'd enjoy a 20 mile day though.