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Link Posted: 4/9/2020 7:42:26 PM EDT
[#1]
39.0 Varget or around there will shoot those 123’s nicely.
Link Posted: 4/9/2020 8:05:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 4/14/2020 10:57:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nukepwr:
I know it has been a while but midsouth sells sample packs of Hornady and their "match monsters"
View Quote



Which are said to be rebranded Nosler Custom Competitions.  I tried the 123s for my Grendel and they shoot OK.  Get about MOA with them out of my AR.
Link Posted: 4/15/2020 11:00:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:
H4350 start around 42grns and work up to around 44.5.
View Quote


I loaded some of those 123 gr Noslers using Nosler's "accuracy load" of 42.5 gr of H4350, Fed 210 Primer with OAL at 2.775".  I ended up with a 5 shot .743 MOA group at 109 yards.  Velocity was 2,846 fps with ES of 22 fps and an SD of 8.5.  Not bad for the first try.  



Link Posted: 4/15/2020 12:06:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: esa17] [#5]
Attachment Attached File

This was my validation test and my worst group of 6 5-shot strings.

Avg: 2727 FPS
ES:6
SD: 3.3

Savage 110 Desert Tactical 6.5cm
Link Posted: 4/15/2020 2:00:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 11:23:19 AM EDT
[#7]
my current load:

140 gr Hornady ELD-M
41.7 gr Hodgdon H4350
Federal GMM small rifle
Virgin Alpha Munitions brass
2.776" COAL (2.223" to Ogive)

rifle Bergara B14-HMR



I am about to start work up on fired brass soon, and play with jump a a bit
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 3:09:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: esa17] [#8]
Found another load for my 110 Desert Tac:
Attachment Attached File


Av-2718
ES-20
SD-7.7
Link Posted: 5/11/2020 2:28:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Who is having success with Gas Gun loads.  It's been a minute since I have reloaded for my AR10 with 18" criterion barrel.  I was using 130 grain TMKs and IMR 4350/4451 powder, hornady brass, and CCI BR4 primers.

Has anyone else worked up a load with 130 Game Changers or 130 TMKs?
Link Posted: 6/13/2020 6:41:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pointman66] [#10]
I’m working on finding a load for my Bergara B14 Ridge, and am not impressed with my H4350 results so far.

All shots are suppressed with a TBAC Ultra 5

Lapua Small Primer Cases
H4350
CCI BR-4 Primers
Nosler 140 gr. Accubond Bullets
2.300” Ogive

I saw some pressure signs around 40.6 grains, so I did the test below today.

I’m not impressed with the velocity variations, and am unsure about where to go next.

My plan is to load some at 39.7 and 40.3 and see if I see any improvement.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 6/14/2020 12:27:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pointman66:
I'm working on finding a load for my Bergara B14 Ridge, and am not impressed with my H4350 results so far.

All shots are suppressed with a TBAC Ultra 5

Lapua Small Primer Cases
H4350
CCI BR-4 Primers
Nosler 140 gr. Accubond Bullets
2.300" Ogive

I saw some pressure signs around 40.6 grains, so I did the test below today.

I'm not impressed with the velocity variations, and am unsure about where to go next.

My plan is to load some at 39.7 and 40.3 and see if I see any improvement.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/335613/C7CCC092-8283-4473-8409-EE57259F3C1B_jpe-1460402.JPG
View Quote
Based on your graph, I would look at 39.2 and do a seating depth test. Numbers look good. 40.2/40.3 might be a good load and I would do a seating depth test with that as well.
Link Posted: 6/14/2020 10:26:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Is the general consensus the hornady 147 is still the caliber to go with for most ranges?

Somebody awhile ago posted some issues with their rounds.
Link Posted: 6/15/2020 7:47:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 7/12/2020 7:55:57 AM EDT
[#14]
Attachment Attached File


Still working on a good StaBall load.
44.5
140 Hornady
.6 MOA
2860 avg
SD 10
ES 23

This may be as good as it gets. Perhaps more playing with seating depth? I’m 20 off the lands now.
Link Posted: 8/25/2020 11:35:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:



The 147 ELD-M is a good choice but depends on the needs and the rifle.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Is the general consensus the hornady 147 is still the caliber to go with for most ranges?

Somebody awhile ago posted some issues with their rounds.



The 147 ELD-M is a good choice but depends on the needs and the rifle.


A bit late, but what needs would that be?
Link Posted: 8/26/2020 7:58:04 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 8/26/2020 10:14:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:


Wanting a higher BC if you wanted to keep your wind calls lower at longer ranges. If you are just shooting 200 yards then the 147's advantages wouldn't be needed.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


A bit late, but what needs would that be?


Wanting a higher BC if you wanted to keep your wind calls lower at longer ranges. If you are just shooting 200 yards then the 147's advantages wouldn't be needed.


What is the disadvantage of using the 147 then?
Link Posted: 8/26/2020 2:32:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 9/2/2020 10:54:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VooDoo3dfx] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:


At shorter ranges? No real disadvantage except lower velocity if you wanted to keep the trajectory flatter. Even for some at longer ranges this is something they would rather give up the higher BC to get some more velocity. All comes down to how the rifle is set up also. Short barrel then you might not gain much if any advantage in the 147 compared to someone with a longer barrel being able to get them to higher velocities.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


What is the disadvantage of using the 147 then?


At shorter ranges? No real disadvantage except lower velocity if you wanted to keep the trajectory flatter. Even for some at longer ranges this is something they would rather give up the higher BC to get some more velocity. All comes down to how the rifle is set up also. Short barrel then you might not gain much if any advantage in the 147 compared to someone with a longer barrel being able to get them to higher velocities.


Barrel is 24 or 26 inches.
Link Posted: 9/3/2020 3:41:56 PM EDT
[#20]
So, I am having a lot of internal debate on whether to go with Sierra, Hornady or even Berger for the bullet.

The powder is H4350, brass is hornady and I have Fed Primer 210M.

The bullet is the only thing I am not sold on.
Link Posted: 9/7/2020 1:05:36 PM EDT
[#21]
BTT

@Rob01
Link Posted: 9/7/2020 3:13:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 9/7/2020 5:41:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Hey all. I read through the thread but didn't see anything for the VLD hunting. I'm going to be working it up with H4350.  Anyone have any luck with that combo?  Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/12/2020 12:08:19 AM EDT
[#24]
In my previous 6.5 (savage 10t-SR) I had a few .4 groups with 142 SMK and h4350, i primarily ran 147 eld that were consistent .5” with h4350 I do not recall the exact charge.

My new 6.5 (Bergara pro hmr) I have a box of 140 Berger vld target, and 142 smk as well as H4350 and RL16 to try out.
Link Posted: 9/28/2020 2:40:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: glocktalk] [#25]
142 SMK
41.1 gr of H4350
Coal-ogive 2.254 (.010 from the lands in my rifle)
CCI BR4

I have tried berger 140 vld and the 142 smk. Most are under .5 but the smk make these nice little groups.
3 shots at 100 today
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/28/2020 5:31:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Can someone tell me the starting load for a Berger 140 Grain Match Hybrid Target is? And the max load as well?

Using H4350 powder with Federal 210M primers in a Hornady case.
Link Posted: 9/28/2020 5:54:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 9/28/2020 5:55:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:


I’d start around 40grn and work up. Most find a load between 41-42grns.  

Hodgdon lists min/max on their site for 140s if you wanted that info.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Can someone tell me the starting load for a Berger 140 Grain Match Hybrid Target is? And the max load as well?

Using H4350 powder with Federal 210M primers in a Hornady case.


I’d start around 40grn and work up. Most find a load between 41-42grns.  

Hodgdon lists min/max on their site for 140s if you wanted that info.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle


Thanks.

I was only looking at Bergers site.
Link Posted: 10/10/2020 1:05:04 PM EDT
[#29]
OK.

Can anybody explain the OAL length and the 'jump' concept in crayon eating terms for my sake?

I have the stoney point OAL tool, I understand the meeting of the lands and backing up,  but now there is chat of the OAL isnt as important as the gap between the bullet and lands?

Help?
Link Posted: 10/10/2020 4:14:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NeverBlue] [#30]
Watch Erik’s series on chasing the lands.
Link Posted: 10/10/2020 6:39:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NeverBlue:
Watch Erik’s series on chasing the lands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRXlCG9YZbQ
View Quote


Thank you.
Link Posted: 10/10/2020 9:38:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 10/10/2020 9:46:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: drfroglegs] [#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


I read that a while back and thought it was a great article.

I don't think it applies to me much as I only shoot a few hundred rounds a year long range, so I don't mind re-optimizing my jump every year or so as the lands wear down.

I can see where that article would be very important to a PRS or F class shooter though who shoot thousands of rounds a year.

I also think it depends on bullet design. The VLD style bullets are supposedly very dependent on the jump while bullets with a tangent ogive (or hybrid shape) are not nearly as dependent.

I actually prefer the hybrid style bullets because I prefer not to chase the jump and worry about changes over time. I don't mind sacrificing some in BC for that benefit.


Here's a good article about the different bullet profiles.
https://www.accurateshooter.com/ballistics/tangent-vs-secant-vs-hybrid-ogive-bullets/
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 10:46:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:


I read that a while back and thought it was a great article.

I don't think it applies to me much as I only shoot a few hundred rounds a year long range, so I don't mind re-optimizing my jump every year or so as the lands wear down.

I can see where that article would be very important to a PRS or F class shooter though who shoot thousands of rounds a year.

I also think it depends on bullet design. The VLD style bullets are supposedly very dependent on the jump while bullets with a tangent ogive (or hybrid shape) are not nearly as dependent.

I actually prefer the hybrid style bullets because I prefer not to chase the jump and worry about changes over time. I don't mind sacrificing some in BC for that benefit.


Here's a good article about the different bullet profiles.
https://www.accurateshooter.com/ballistics/tangent-vs-secant-vs-hybrid-ogive-bullets/
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:


I read that a while back and thought it was a great article.

I don't think it applies to me much as I only shoot a few hundred rounds a year long range, so I don't mind re-optimizing my jump every year or so as the lands wear down.

I can see where that article would be very important to a PRS or F class shooter though who shoot thousands of rounds a year.

I also think it depends on bullet design. The VLD style bullets are supposedly very dependent on the jump while bullets with a tangent ogive (or hybrid shape) are not nearly as dependent.

I actually prefer the hybrid style bullets because I prefer not to chase the jump and worry about changes over time. I don't mind sacrificing some in BC for that benefit.


Here's a good article about the different bullet profiles.
https://www.accurateshooter.com/ballistics/tangent-vs-secant-vs-hybrid-ogive-bullets/


Thank you.

So, with that being said, and because I use 140 hybrids, how should I calculate seating depth?

Take the .0020 off from touching the lands to start with? Magazine size?
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 12:27:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: drfroglegs] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Thank you.

So, with that being said, and because I use 140 hybrids, how should I calculate seating depth?

Take the .0020 off from touching the lands to start with? Magazine size?
View Quote


I usually go 0.020" off the lands and start there. Maybe load a 5rd group at 0.02", 0.03", 0.04", 0.05", 0.06", and 0.07" off the lands to see if you can find a point where you see an improved group. You may find in a certain range it doesn't make that much of a difference, if so I would go to the middle of that range.

Really, it all boils down to how much testing do you want to do and what is the level of "good enough". If I can get half moa loading at 0.02" off the lands I don't even mess with the jump optimization... I cant really shoot any better than that anyways so any results are likely not even statistically significant.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 1:00:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Thank you.

So, with that being said, and because I use 140 hybrids, how should I calculate seating depth?

Take the .0020 off from touching the lands to start with? Magazine size?
View Quote



Yes

Just because it is written somewhere that X works - you don't know until you do it.  Load and shoot.

I have not fired a factory round in my 6.5CM, reloads from the start and at first I was 0.040" off lands just because.  Now at 0.023 off just because 0.020 off puts the nose of ELDs just about touching the mag.  At 0.020 the BTHP match bullets and the 0.023 ELD shoot "better".  

The biggest factor is ME!  Some days I do fantastic and other days I cannot maintain consistent anything.  

I would say load to 0.002 -0.004 less than mag length and see what the load does, like a couple hundred rounds.  Others will recommend something else and they are as right as me.  Focus more on you (or: check weld, bipod load or not, grip or not, trigger press, scope parallax, etc).  

470 rounds in and I cannot measure appreciable erosion.  Is it there?  Sure.  Do I care?  Not right now because I cannot outshoot my rifle and load.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 1:34:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:


I usually go 0.020" off the lands and start there. Maybe load a 5rd group at 0.02", 0.03", 0.04", 0.05", 0.06", and 0.07" off the lands to see if you can find a point where you see an improved group. You may find in a certain range it doesn't make that much of a difference, if so I would go to the middle of that range.

Really, it all boils down to how much testing do you want to do and what is the level of "good enough". If I can get half moa loading at 0.02" off the lands I don't even mess with the jump optimization... I cant really shoot any better than that anyways so any results are likely not even statistically significant.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Thank you.

So, with that being said, and because I use 140 hybrids, how should I calculate seating depth?

Take the .0020 off from touching the lands to start with? Magazine size?


I usually go 0.020" off the lands and start there. Maybe load a 5rd group at 0.02", 0.03", 0.04", 0.05", 0.06", and 0.07" off the lands to see if you can find a point where you see an improved group. You may find in a certain range it doesn't make that much of a difference, if so I would go to the middle of that range.

Really, it all boils down to how much testing do you want to do and what is the level of "good enough". If I can get half moa loading at 0.02" off the lands I don't even mess with the jump optimization... I cant really shoot any better than that anyways so any results are likely not even statistically significant.


For me, there has to be a happy medium.   I have been reading blogs,  articles and forum posts of people who weigh every brass, every bullet, take measurements of how much erosion there is every hundred or so rounds.. that doesn't seem fun to me, just work,

My goal is to find a round I can hit at least .5 MOA at 100 yards, and extend that MOA up into the 1000 yard range when i get the opportunity.

Beyond that,  this is supposed to be a fun hobby, not a job.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 1:37:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RWEIII:



Yes

Just because it is written somewhere that X works - you don't know until you do it.  Load and shoot.

I have not fired a factory round in my 6.5CM, reloads from the start and at first I was 0.040" off lands just because.  Now at 0.023 off just because 0.020 off puts the nose of ELDs just about touching the mag.  At 0.020 the BTHP match bullets and the 0.023 ELD shoot "better".  

The biggest factor is ME!  Some days I do fantastic and other days I cannot maintain consistent anything.  

I would say load to 0.002 -0.004 less than mag length and see what the load does, like a couple hundred rounds.  Others will recommend something else and they are as right as me.  Focus more on you (or: check weld, bipod load or not, grip or not, trigger press, scope parallax, etc).  

470 rounds in and I cannot measure appreciable erosion.  Is it there?  Sure.  Do I care?  Not right now because I cannot outshoot my rifle and load.
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Originally Posted By RWEIII:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Thank you.

So, with that being said, and because I use 140 hybrids, how should I calculate seating depth?

Take the .0020 off from touching the lands to start with? Magazine size?



Yes

Just because it is written somewhere that X works - you don't know until you do it.  Load and shoot.

I have not fired a factory round in my 6.5CM, reloads from the start and at first I was 0.040" off lands just because.  Now at 0.023 off just because 0.020 off puts the nose of ELDs just about touching the mag.  At 0.020 the BTHP match bullets and the 0.023 ELD shoot "better".  

The biggest factor is ME!  Some days I do fantastic and other days I cannot maintain consistent anything.  

I would say load to 0.002 -0.004 less than mag length and see what the load does, like a couple hundred rounds.  Others will recommend something else and they are as right as me.  Focus more on you (or: check weld, bipod load or not, grip or not, trigger press, scope parallax, etc).  

470 rounds in and I cannot measure appreciable erosion.  Is it there?  Sure.  Do I care?  Not right now because I cannot outshoot my rifle and load.


Makes sense.

So, is it better to find the max powder load first then fine tune it with seating depth?

Last time i did a load up was for my .308, and that was 12 years ago. I don't quite remember what the process was.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 2:06:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RWEIII] [#39]
For longer range shooting you MAY want a higher velocity.  Velocity isn't everything though.

You also want low ES and precision.  Then worry about COAL/OAL.

IMO you have to find a balance between you, your rifle, and load.

Load, shoot, make notes in a book - every time.  Then see what works after you have data on your gear and skills.

Edit:  AND HAVE FUN!!!
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 9:47:07 PM EDT
[#40]
New brass out of the bag, how many fully resize it?

Or just pop in the primer and go through the process?
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 10:27:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 11:14:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AZ_Sky] [#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
New brass out of the bag, how many fully resize it?

Or just pop in the primer and go through the process?
View Quote

My reloads are neck sized only.
But even so I still do a full resize on new brass to to make sure everything (mainly the shoulder and neck) are as close to each other as they can be, and as above I also uniform the flash holes - it doesn't take long.
After the first shot I of course do the whole shebang on the case when reloading.
Link Posted: 10/21/2020 7:06:35 AM EDT
[#43]
Hey guys, I'm looking for some load data and or thoughts on 2 powders.

Which do you think would be better for 130 smk's? Staball or shooters world precision rifle powder? Ideally I'd like to use H4350 but it seems to be out of stock every place I check.
Link Posted: 10/21/2020 4:21:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Using the stoney point OAL gauge, and after doing it about 20 times to make sure I wasn't messing up,  my length was 2.936 with taking off .020 making it 2.916.

Is that length... unusual?
Link Posted: 10/21/2020 4:31:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 10/21/2020 4:36:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VooDoo3dfx] [#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:


What bullet? The 147 eld? If so that’s a little long but not bad. With a saami chamber they are right about 2.890” to the lands.
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Originally Posted By Rob01:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Using the stoney point OAL gauge, and after doing it about 20 times to make sure I wasn't messing up,  my length was 2.936 with taking off .020 making it 2.916.

Is that length... unusual?


What bullet? The 147 eld? If so that’s a little long but not bad. With a saami chamber they are right about 2.890” to the lands.


140 berger hybrid

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/6-5mm-140g-berger-hybrid-seating-depth-question.209154/

Looks like they do run a bit long.
Link Posted: 10/21/2020 4:39:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Link Posted: 10/21/2020 5:01:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:
Can’t help there but sounds a little long in the freebore. My 140 elds are at 2.870” to lands. Hybrids don’t mind jump so you should be ok moving it back to fit in mags.
View Quote


Until I upgrade my stock to the AI one, I dont use mags.   I think their max is 2.880"?

So, should I just make it 2.880 and work from there?
Link Posted: 10/21/2020 5:44:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 10/21/2020 5:51:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rob01:



Standard AICS mags can go to about there but I don't load anything over 2.860" to make sure they feed reliably. Accurate Mag make a magazine without the front binder plate and it can take up to 2.950". You will have to notch back the feed ramp on the action though. You might have to do it with the standard mags too.
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Originally Posted By Rob01:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Until I upgrade my stock to the AI one, I dont use mags.   I think their max is 2.880"?

So, should I just make it 2.880 and work from there?



Standard AICS mags can go to about there but I don't load anything over 2.860" to make sure they feed reliably. Accurate Mag make a magazine without the front binder plate and it can take up to 2.950". You will have to notch back the feed ramp on the action though. You might have to do it with the standard mags too.


OK, thanks.

As that won't be until next year, should I just  stick with my measurement at .020 off the lands or start at mag length and find a sweet spot under that length?
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