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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:08:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MR_JOSHUA]
I have a barrel that needs to be threaded.
The task is slightly unique because the threads need to be at the receiver end (not the muzzle end). Anyone know who could to cut 1 1/4-18 external threads on the barrel as shown below? I would like to utilize an AR style handguard, this is the purpose for the external threads. The contour of the barrel is straight (no taper), so it should be fairly straight forward.  |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:47:43 PM EDT
[#1]
About any good machinist could do that.
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CT, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:11:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Traderjac: About any good machinist could do that. This. A gunsmith isn't a necessity. Are you sure your barrel's tennon has an OD large enough to accommodate the new threads? |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 5:12:34 PM EDT
[#3]
I'd say nearly any machinist, but I'm not sure that threading what is effectively the outside of the chamber is a good idea.
What caliber are we talking here? . 223 probably not a concern, 30/378 maybe a concern |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2021 5:15:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MR_JOSHUA]
[#4]
Forgot to mention, this is for 22lr
Here is a sectional view before/after: See text in Blue seems pretty straight forward?  |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2021 6:13:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Beyond the can you question and the who would do it for you question there's a 'should you' question. Seems to me that hanging something off the chamber end is going to make for the potential for a harmonic nightmare. Of course it could act as a vibration damper, so who knows. Just keep in mind it could have unintended effects that may or may not be what you were hoping for.
I say go for it... I'm curious how it turns out. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:30:34 AM EDT
[#6]
The only thing I think I'd change is adding a shoulder for the barrel nut to register against, instead of the receiver face.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 9:53:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By MR_JOSHUA: I would like to utilize an AR style handguard, this is the purpose What stock will you be using that would allow for AR handguards to fit?? Why not just get a chassis? The threading is easy to do, but i would think a chassis is the safer move. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 9:59:22 PM EDT
[#8]
How to not free float a barrel.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 11:39:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By ziarifleman: How to not free float a barrel. Do it coward |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 11:45:45 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 1/26/2021 11:56:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Do it coward Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By ziarifleman: How to not free float a barrel. Do it coward  The biggest problem will be most barrels not being 1.250” right there. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:42:23 AM EDT
[#12]
Based upon the drawing and the cartridge size, I think you would be better off just beating the villian with the barrel/pipe.
Yes, the threading can be done by decent machinist.. If you can find one that uses the vaporization process, they could 'cut' that for you. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 1:26:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman: The biggest problem will be most barrels not being 1.250” right there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By ziarifleman: How to not free float a barrel. Do it coward The biggest problem will be most barrels not being 1.250” right there. I don't want excuses I want to see the finished product |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2021 4:14:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Here are the pictures I shared with the threading specialist. See below...
He is very comfortable with the scope of work. I just ordered the barrel with action from Brownell's, so this is going forward. What could go wrong? I need to mention - There is a gunsmith who turned this project down. Here are his reasons: I would have to: take your barrel off, which probably requires making or building an action wrench figure out how to hold it in the lathe write code proof out code buy tooling to confirm dims on an odd thread size dial it in true in the lathe cut threads without buying you a new rifle figure out how to re torque your barrel on now that I put threads where the barrel vise needed to clamp it and not mar your finish through all that or end up cerakoting it for free. I'm just not that bored these days... Likely a year behind on projects if I would stop and add them up.   |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 4:25:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Write code?
  Attached FileKinda tough to tell in the pic, but that’s like a 10” NPT I single pointed on a manual lathe with a taper attachment. Write code? That’s just such a foreign concept to this brute.
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CT, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2021 4:45:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman:Write code? Right? I'd have the barrel threaded, installed, and headspaced before the gunsmith was done measuring for his action wrench. What actual gunsmith doesn't have an action wrench? Especially one he can make different sized mandrels to accommodate all customers? |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 4:55:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By User55645: Right? I'd have the barrel threaded, installed, and headspaced before the gunsmith was done measuring for his action wrench. What actual gunsmith doesn't have an action wrench? Especially one he can make different sized mandrels to accommodate all customers? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By User55645: Originally Posted By ziarifleman:Write code? Right? I'd have the barrel threaded, installed, and headspaced before the gunsmith was done measuring for his action wrench. What actual gunsmith doesn't have an action wrench? Especially one he can make different sized mandrels to accommodate all customers? I'll pile on buy tooling to confirm dims on an odd thread size It's called thread wires. If he can't use them you probably don't want him messing with your barrel. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 3:23:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: What stock will you be using that would allow for AR handguards to fit?? Why not just get a chassis? The threading is easy to do, but i would think a chassis is the safer move. <<<<THIS. Your barrel will not be free floated if you are applying tension to those threads. A bipod, sling and anything else you mount on the handguard including your hand will cause direct inputs into the barrel vibrations. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 3:55:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: <<<<THIS. Your barrel will not be free floated if you are applying tension to those threads. A bipod, sling and anything else you mount on the handguard including your hand will cause direct inputs into the barrel vibrations. How is that different if he mounts the handguard on the receiver just above the chamber? How is it different from our own AR free-float handguards that attach to the bbl nut that holds the bbl into the receiver? |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 4:49:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MHIDPA: I'll pile on buy tooling to confirm dims on an odd thread size It's called thread wires. If he can't use them you probably don't want him messing with your barrel. Shit, he could just cut them until they peak and the nut threads on. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 6:50:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: How is that different if he mounts the handguard on the receiver just above the chamber? How is it different from our own AR free-float handguards that attach to the bbl nut that holds the bbl into the receiver? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: <<<<THIS. Your barrel will not be free floated if you are applying tension to those threads. A bipod, sling and anything else you mount on the handguard including your hand will cause direct inputs into the barrel vibrations. How is that different if he mounts the handguard on the receiver just above the chamber? How is it different from our own AR free-float handguards that attach to the bbl nut that holds the bbl into the receiver? The barrel but attaches to the receiver not the barrel so I’m not sure it’s the same especially since this setup is in front of the receiver. This attaches directly to the barrel. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 7:00:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: The barrel but attaches to the receiver not the barrel so I’m not sure it’s the same especially since this setup is in front of the receiver. This attaches directly to the barrel. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: <<<<THIS. Your barrel will not be free floated if you are applying tension to those threads. A bipod, sling and anything else you mount on the handguard including your hand will cause direct inputs into the barrel vibrations. How is that different if he mounts the handguard on the receiver just above the chamber? How is it different from our own AR free-float handguards that attach to the bbl nut that holds the bbl into the receiver? The barrel but attaches to the receiver not the barrel so I’m not sure it’s the same especially since this setup is in front of the receiver. This attaches directly to the barrel. As I understand the point of a free-float handguard on ARs, we're preventing the deviation of the bbl with pressure from a bipod or tight sling. That deviation can be significant w/ a drop-in rail system, as bbls are flexible. Anchoring the handguard just forward of the chamber is not the most ideal position, but it would insure that the majority of the bbl is free-floated and would obviate the worst effects of a non-free float rail. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 10:58:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: As I understand the point of a free-float handguard on ARs, we're preventing the deviation of the bbl with pressure from a bipod or tight sling. That deviation can be significant w/ a drop-in rail system, as bbls are flexible. Anchoring the handguard just forward of the chamber is not the most ideal position, but it would insure that the majority of the bbl is free-floated and would obviate the worst effects of a non-free float rail. It ensures that the barrel is never free floated, because there is something contacting it forward of the receiver. It’s not just pressure, but also the barrel harmonics. Attaching something directly to the barrel that can have varying pressure as well is a bad idea for precision. It’ll be interesting looking and lower resale value by about 75-85%, but it’s not my money. The biggest issue is no stock will allow an AR rail to fit in the barrel channel without really opening it up and weakening the structure. All in all, this just seems like a bad idea and makes no sense to me. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 11:30:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: The biggest issue is no stock will allow an AR rail to fit in the barrel channel without really opening it up and weakening the structure. All in all, this just seems like a bad idea and makes no sense to me. Pork Sword Chassis, or something similar  |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 11:45:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: Pork Sword Chassis, or something similar https://i0.wp.com/blackcollararms.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Chassis-Thumb.png?fit=1000%2C1000&ssl=1 That’s probably the only option. If I was going for an AR handguard look, I’d just buy the JP chassis and call it a day. |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 12:10:42 AM EDT
[#26]
I am guessing that he will omit the stock in front of the receiver or use something like the pork sword.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2021 10:01:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MR_JOSHUA]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: <<<<THIS. Your barrel will not be free floated if you are applying tension to those threads. A bipod, sling and anything else you mount on the handguard including your hand will cause direct inputs into the barrel vibrations. So, if I understand this correctly, you think when a “rigid” free-floating handguard on an AR15 is impacted by outside forces, the deflection is somehow not carried-through to the barrel? I’m sure you know the barrel extension is a 1:1 fit into the receiver. And the receiver is only 3mm thick under the barrel nut. So, the notion that the barrel does not realize any deflection when cantilever forces are applied to the handguard is BS. Look at the comparison pictures below, we’re talking 1 inch of steel man! Not going to be a problem for 22lr:   |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2021 12:22:53 PM EDT
[#28]
^^^^ Exactly.
Mounting to the first 1" of barrel is fine. A lot of people bed the first 1" of barrel in their stock... no harmonic catastrophe... This is a 25 minute project. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 12:46:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LedZeppelin: ^^^^ Exactly. Mounting to the first 1" of barrel is fine. A lot of people bed the first 1" of barrel in their stock... no harmonic catastrophe... This is a 25 minute project. And the stock is rigid in those cases and absorbs the external inputs of a rest or bipod/loading, not the barrel. It’s not the same thing. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 12:58:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LedZeppelin: ^^^^ Exactly. Mounting to the first 1" of barrel is fine. A lot of people bed the first 1" of barrel in their stock... no harmonic catastrophe... This is a 25 minute project. Eh, that sort of bedding technique results in a less accurate rifle. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2021 1:47:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Prove it.
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Posted: 2/22/2021 1:50:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LedZeppelin: Prove it. lol |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 3:19:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By LedZeppelin: Prove it. Why ha sit wvolved to the point where nobody does it? |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 3:26:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Lunch break project for someone good with a lathe.
Given the low non critical load a press fit sleeve or sleeve with some retainer compound would probably even work |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 3:28:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MR_JOSHUA: Here are the pictures I shared with the threading specialist. See below... He is very comfortable with the scope of work. I just ordered the barrel with action from Brownell's, so this is going forward. What could go wrong? I need to mention - There is a gunsmith who turned this project down. Here are his reasons: I would have to: take your barrel off, which probably requires making or building an action wrench figure out how to hold it in the lathe write code proof out code buy tooling to confirm dims on an odd thread size dial it in true in the lathe cut threads without buying you a new rifle figure out how to re torque your barrel on now that I put threads where the barrel vise needed to clamp it and not mar your finish through all that or end up cerakoting it for free. I'm just not that bored these days... Likely a year behind on projects if I would stop and add them up. https://i.imgur.com/DXHjUqq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Lras3WW.jpg Must have a new toy. I wouldn't take gunsmith work there. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2021 3:28:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Project is moving forward and looking really good.
Just look at the transition from receiver face to barrel nut, perfect:  |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 3:34:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MR_JOSHUA: So, if I understand this correctly, you think when a “rigid” free-floating handguard on an AR15 is impacted by outside forces, the deflection is somehow not carried-through to the barrel? I’m sure you know the barrel extension is a 1:1 fit into the receiver. And the receiver is only 3mm thick under the barrel nut. So, the notion that the barrel does not realize any deflection when cantilever forces are applied to the handguard is BS. Look at the comparison pictures below, we’re talking 1 inch of steel man! Not going to be a problem for 22lr: https://i.imgur.com/XOS7zae.jpg https://i.imgur.com/nO8U4VZ.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MR_JOSHUA: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: <<<<THIS. Your barrel will not be free floated if you are applying tension to those threads. A bipod, sling and anything else you mount on the handguard including your hand will cause direct inputs into the barrel vibrations. So, if I understand this correctly, you think when a “rigid” free-floating handguard on an AR15 is impacted by outside forces, the deflection is somehow not carried-through to the barrel? I’m sure you know the barrel extension is a 1:1 fit into the receiver. And the receiver is only 3mm thick under the barrel nut. So, the notion that the barrel does not realize any deflection when cantilever forces are applied to the handguard is BS. Look at the comparison pictures below, we’re talking 1 inch of steel man! Not going to be a problem for 22lr: https://i.imgur.com/XOS7zae.jpg https://i.imgur.com/nO8U4VZ.jpg Let up if you're bashing the forearm enough to bend the threaded extension on the receiver. The deflection is microscopic at the forward end of the barrel. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 4:15:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MR_JOSHUA: Project is moving forward and looking really good. Just look at the transition from receiver face to barrel nut, perfect: https://i.imgur.com/ADpNucp.jpg I have to say, those are some nice looking threads. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2021 4:49:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Why ha sit wvolved to the point where nobody does it? First off, people still do it fairly regularly. Not everyone follows the hottest trends on the internet. If people have stopped doing it, it's not for reasons that involve accuracy. Chiefly it causes interference issues when you screw on a new barrel that has the bore eccentric in a different location or a slightly different shank diameter. It's also on the wrong end of the fulcrum to "support" the barrel or take any load off of the receiver or whatever other theoretical gain there was from doing it. I'm not an advocate for bedding the first inch or two of the barrel channel. I don't think it does anything. But if someone is going to make a bold blanket claim that it hinders accuracy, I'd like to know what evidence that's based off of because I've never seen it. The main point is that the OP is using a thick wall piece of steel with roughly 3x the elastic modulus of aluminum. Greater area moment of inertia (vs. AR-15 upper), greater elastic modulus, at the best possible position on the barrel not cause large deflection, about as much wall thickness (.22lr) as a guy could hope for... What he's doing is not going to wreck harmonics in the barrel. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 5:44:21 PM EDT
[#40]
I have seen sand under the barrel, on one that had the shank bedded, cause accuracy problems.
Probably just an Internet fad, though. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 7:55:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Let up if you're bashing the forearm enough to bend the threaded extension on the receiver. The deflection is microscopic at the forward end of the barrel. What about when loading up the bipod against something like is popular on Snipers Hide? I'm trying to visualize where that force is actually going. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2021 12:46:59 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iiibdsiil: What about when loading up the bipod against something like is popular on Snipers Hide? I'm trying to visualize where that force is actually going. The load will transmit down the handguard through the barrel nut, through the barrel, through the barrel-receiver threaded joint, through the action screws and stock bedding, and back to your shoulder. The difference comes when you have a threaded junction (steel on steel) between the barrel and receiver that is torqued tighter, and then a barrel that is made of material with 3x higher modulus of elasticity, and is also 3x+ thicker than an AR-15 upper. More material, stiffer material, stiffer joint, WAY less deflection for the same applied load. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 1:34:27 AM EDT
[#43]
OP,
Have you tested the barreled action in the factory configuration? While I’m skeptical of the effect of placing the handguard directly to the barrel, I do appreciate new ideas and data. Having a 1:1 comparison would be interesting. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2021 11:24:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Finally got this finished.
Pictured below are detailed pics. This went together very well. All the threading was done by pro’s. Can’t emphasize how happy I am with this build. The Coda handguard is extremely rigid, as expected with carbon fiber. I’m obsessed with iron sights, but it was a pain finding front & rear rails that would allow the sights to line-up correctly (rails not equal in height from C/L of bore). That part was a challenge:     |
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Posted: 4/9/2021 11:35:36 PM EDT
[#45]
I wonder why they put a thread relief in the barrel and the nut.
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Posted: 4/9/2021 11:45:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Mofo chassis
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Posted: 4/26/2021 6:52:12 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 4/26/2021 7:49:58 PM EDT
[#48]
OP,
Have you had a chance to see how it shoots? |
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