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Posted: 3/2/2016 6:20:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m6z:
I've been considering one of those, but the 9/16x24 threads have kept me from buying one since I plan on suppressing it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m6z:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
It's the Alexander Arms 16" Lightweight fluted, made available recently. It actually has a very stiff, medium-heavy contour, but is double-fluted so that you have twice as many flutes as a lot of other barrels I've seen. You get a 6lb little AR15 before optics, using the modern lightweight handguards. AA 16" LW Fluted 6.5 Grendel Barrel I've been considering one of those, but the 9/16x24 threads have kept me from buying one since I plan on suppressing it. Most professional suppressor makers have brake attach devices with 9/16x24 threads. If you are direct-threading, then I can understand. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 9:01:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
The BHW's use a really shallow rifling, so people often see higher mv with them by at least 50fps or more, sometimes 100fps. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
My BHW 18" showed up today. This is going to be a great rifle I think. The BHW's use a really shallow rifling, so people often see higher mv with them by at least 50fps or more, sometimes 100fps. This hasn't been my experience. Not a 6.5, but I've owned 3 different BHW ar15 barrels in 223 all 18" with mid length gas. My Krieger barrel also an 18" mid length gas in 223 and is substantially faster with less powder using the same bullets, brass, and primers. The powder is even from the same 8 lbs jug so I can rule that out as well. My Krieger is also more precise and is currently on the moa all day list with an average score of .692 moa over 5 consecutive 5 round groups. I'm new to precision shooting and completely self taught shooter so I'm sure it's capable of better in more experienced hands. Small sample size yes, but just my experience. |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 8:44:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Well I took the plunge on the AA lite. Think I'm going to bastardize the sr15 with this barrel. I've got everything on hand to build a fresh AR except a hand guard, but I really just don't feel like putting another one in the safe and shoot the Larue barreled 5.56 99% of the time anyways. |
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Posted: 3/23/2016 12:11:55 AM EDT
[#4]
I would love to see a Knight's SR65.
They are one of the few manufacturers who sells a quality rifle that you don't need to change anything out on really, other than maybe the charge handle of your choice. Their handguards are top notch, receivers are well executed, internals are engineered well, tested extensively, with robust materials and manufacturing processes used. |
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Posted: 3/23/2016 10:24:52 AM EDT
[#5]
Is this round used in competition very often? I've been reading about it a bit, and it sounds like it's got the accuracy potential. Background: I'm not a HM, and my eyes are getting too old for service rifle sights. Recently got into F-class and I'm digging it. I've been thinking about assembling a rifle for multi-purpose use: 1) for me to shoot XTC match rifle, and 2) for my daughter to use (get started) shooting F-Class MR -- She's 11. So, I'd want something light recoiling that's pretty forgiving @ 600 compared to a 223. I'm thinking about building something like a space gun, w/ this 6.5 round as a strong contender. It sounds like it'd be a lot easier than something like the 6mmAR. Is this retarded? Thoughts? Also, is this thing a barrel-burner? A lot of the short/fat rounds are... |
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Posted: 3/23/2016 11:45:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HomeSlice:
Is this round used in competition very often? I've been reading about it a bit, and it sounds like it's got the accuracy potential. Background: I'm not a HM, and my eyes are getting too old for service rifle sights. Recently got into F-class and I'm digging it. I've been thinking about assembling a rifle for multi-purpose use: 1) for me to shoot XTC match rifle, and 2) for my daughter to use (get started) shooting F-Class MR -- She's 11. So, I'd want something light recoiling that's pretty forgiving @ 600 compared to a 223. I'm thinking about building something like a space gun, w/ this 6.5 round as a strong contender. It sounds like it'd be a lot easier than something like the 6mmAR. Is this retarded? Thoughts? Also, is this thing a barrel-burner? A lot of the short/fat rounds are... You will have more forgiving wind deflection than .223 all day long. For a factory ammo cartridge, it is peerless in that regard in the AR15. However, most people I know that compete seriously use a 6mm AR with the 6mm 107 SMK or similar due to speed and BC. Litz BC = .525/.262 That said, a lot of people have looked at manufacturer published BC data to make their bullet selection, then case selection, when getting into competitive long range shooting. We're really still on the initial wave of people waking up to actual BC data, and I have noticed that a lot of the 6.5mm projectiles were inadvertently underrated by the manufacturers, whereas most of the other bores have been overrated. You see some exceptions with 7mm, but 6mm and .30 cal have a lot of bullets with pipe dream BCs listed by their makers. The 6.5mm 107gr SMK is one example, as is the 123gr SMK. The 107 has a listed BC of .420, when it is really .461/.230, with the 123gr SMK being .522/.260. The reality is though that I will not typically be able to get a 6.5mm 107gr SMK going as fast as a 6mm 107 SMK, so this is why so many people shoot the 6mm AR. No recoil and performance that is more like a .260 Rem for wind, but flatter trajectory. The Grendel is not a barrel burner for 2 reasons: * Chamber pressure is substantially lower than most modern high power rifles, so you don't gas check the throat. * It isn't over-bored like any of the 6.5-08 class of cartridges (.260 Rem, 6.5 CM, 6.5x47Lapua). Neck to body diameter ratio is well balanced for long barrel life. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2016 12:04:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Just ordered my first Grendel last week. AA upper with 20" shilen match barrel. Can't wait to get it. Hopefully not to long! Would be nice if I could get an approximate ship Time as AA hasn't got back to my email. Hope it meets the expectations you guys have given me!
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Posted: 3/23/2016 10:07:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TSU45:
Well I took the plunge on the AA lite. Think I'm going to bastardize the sr15 with this barrel. I've got everything on hand to build a fresh AR except a hand guard, but I really just don't feel like putting another one in the safe and shoot the Larue barreled 5.56 99% of the time anyways. Got the back order notice 
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Posted: 3/24/2016 12:07:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TSU45:
Got the back order notice Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TSU45:
Originally Posted By TSU45:
Well I took the plunge on the AA lite. Think I'm going to bastardize the sr15 with this barrel. I've got everything on hand to build a fresh AR except a hand guard, but I really just don't feel like putting another one in the safe and shoot the Larue barreled 5.56 99% of the time anyways. Got the back order notice Ordered a barrel myself to take the 6.5 plunge. Also backordered. |
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Posted: 3/24/2016 6:03:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Took the 6.5G plunge myself today with the AA 16" lite barrel. You guys cost me money. I was a content 6.8 owner, but all these 6.5Grendel discussions pushed me in! I can already see the slippery slope into a 12.5" SBR barrel in 6.5G...and supressor.
Thanks to all who have contributed... |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 5:32:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By miker84:
Ordered a barrel myself to take the 6.5 plunge. Also backordered. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By miker84:
Originally Posted By TSU45:
Originally Posted By TSU45:
Well I took the plunge on the AA lite. Think I'm going to bastardize the sr15 with this barrel. I've got everything on hand to build a fresh AR except a hand guard, but I really just don't feel like putting another one in the safe and shoot the Larue barreled 5.56 99% of the time anyways. Got the back order notice Ordered a barrel myself to take the 6.5 plunge. Also backordered. Did you order from AA? I spoke with them yesterday for my 3/8 order. Said its in the next batch which should ship in 10-12 days |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 5:44:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83:
Did you order from AA? I spoke with them yesterday for my 3/8 order. Said its in the next batch which should ship in 10-12 days Yep. That won't be too bad. |
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Posted: 3/26/2016 10:11:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By miker84:
Yep. That won't be too bad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By miker84:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
Did you order from AA? I spoke with them yesterday for my 3/8 order. Said its in the next batch which should ship in 10-12 days Yep. That won't be too bad. Keep us updated... I want to take the plunge... but for some reason am stuck on wanting an 18" barrel. |
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Posted: 3/26/2016 10:54:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By monkeypunch:
Keep us updated... I want to take the plunge... but for some reason am stuck on wanting an 18" barrel. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By monkeypunch:
Originally Posted By miker84:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
Did you order from AA? I spoke with them yesterday for my 3/8 order. Said its in the next batch which should ship in 10-12 days Yep. That won't be too bad. Keep us updated... I want to take the plunge... but for some reason am stuck on wanting an 18" barrel. I'm still thinking about an 18. I'll see how the 16 goes and may end up with an 18 upper anyway lol. |
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Posted: 3/29/2016 6:05:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TSU45]
[#15]
Are yall crimping your rounds?
I'd like to find one bullet that is economical enough to shoot in volume on steel out to 1k but still has decent enough performance to reliably perform on deer out to 300 yards. Unfortunately our 1k line is shutdown due damage from heavy rains, so I have some time to nail a load down. Can't even try out the Prime creedmoor rounds I just got in
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Posted: 3/30/2016 1:37:22 AM EDT
[#16]
I have never crimped 6.5 Grendel. I'm getting sub-MOA rapid fired groups of at least 6 rounds at 1000yds from a lightweight gun, so maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I feel like I can't miss with my little Lilja barrel Grendel. I don't see a huge difference at distance with my first 16" Grendel either, and I haven't even bedded the barrel in it yet.
When I put new shooters on either gun, they just hit things with 1st-round connects at distance like it's cool, and think that is how it normally is, without ever putting in the work over decades with a .308 like I did. They take it for granted and just assume that is normal, and then think all the talk about how involved long range shooting is was just hype by gun guys. One bullet for economy long range target and hunting? 123gr AMAX or 123gr SST. You can shoot the AMAX for 26 cents per, and the SST for 28 cents per. |
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Posted: 3/30/2016 8:36:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
I have never crimped 6.5 Grendel. I'm getting sub-MOA rapid fired groups of at least 6 rounds at 1000yds from a lightweight gun, so maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I feel like I can't miss with my little Lilja barrel Grendel. I don't see a huge difference at distance with my first 16" Grendel either, and I haven't even bedded the barrel in it yet. When I put new shooters on either gun, they just hit things with 1st-round connects at distance like it's cool, and think that is how it normally is, without ever putting in the work over decades with a .308 like I did. They take it for granted and just assume that is normal, and then think all the talk about how involved long range shooting is was just hype by gun guys. One bullet for economy long range target and hunting? 123gr AMAX or 123gr SST. You can shoot the AMAX for 26 cents per, and the SST for 28 cents per. You get into the whiskey last night? 
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Posted: 3/31/2016 1:27:41 AM EDT
[#18]
No whiskey for me.
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Posted: 3/31/2016 6:38:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
No whiskey for me. http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/3bf6ee00-ad92-4600-a7bb-e77b0832f99f_zpsfe8pbfh3.jpg I was referring to the long winded answer in general to yes or no on a crimp. Just giving you a hard time. 
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Posted: 3/31/2016 10:09:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Just ordered a Magnetospeed V3, 100pcs Lapua, box of SST, and a box of Amax for $95.99. I love Cabela's points
SST and Amax are on sale if anyone is looking for projectiles. So is the Lapua brass, but sale price there is about equal to regular everywhere else. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 12:47:03 AM EDT
[#21]
OP, I seem to remember you saying that you had either started work, or was about to start work on a SBR in this caliber. Have you made any leeway into that and if so what velocities are you getting?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2016 7:04:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Took a chance and ordered an ODIN Works upper with 18" barrel and KMod Forend on 4/19 and received it 4/23. Upper looks and feels great. Threw it on a PSA lower and Millet DMS-1 scope. Hope to get to the range this coming weekend.
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Posted: 4/27/2016 6:38:53 PM EDT
[#23]
You're gonna like the way it shoots, I guarantee it. I just built an upper on the same set up. I was getting roughly MOA sized groups @100 with the very first rounds through the barrel using blue box PPU. I absolutely love the Grendel and the Odin upper build kit.
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Posted: 4/27/2016 11:52:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Just got notification by phone that my 2 fluted lightweight barrels from AA are on the way, as well as uppers, bolts, and flash hiders.
One is for one of my brother-in-laws. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 2:31:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
I have a 22" .260 Remington AR that I don't shoot that much anymore. To be honest, I've been looking at largely replacing it with a 22" 6.5 Grendel, since I realized that the .260 Rem gives me 150yds more performance than the Grendel when comparing the same bullets, and both are supersonic well past 1200yds already. I've spent so much time shooting the short barreled Grendel's, that the long-barreled ones have always been friends'. It's just too easy to shoot factory ammo in this, whereas I need to hand load exclusively for the .260 Rem gasser. On large game, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. Several people DRT'd elk this past season with 16" Grendel's and the 123gr SST even. I'd like to see side-by-side velocity and BC of the 6.5Grendel and the 6.5CM out of equal length barrels and distance. If they were truly close enough I'd be hard pressed to build on the 308AR platform. (currently wanting to build a 260rem). |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2016 2:40:40 PM EDT
[#26]
You can create that comparison table yourself using ballistics data from a reputable ammunition manufacturer. They will give you velocity and energy from the muzzle to just about any distance usually in 100 yard increments.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 3:35:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
Most professional suppressor makers have brake attach devices with 9/16x24 threads. If you are direct-threading, then I can understand. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By m6z:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
It's the Alexander Arms 16" Lightweight fluted, made available recently. It actually has a very stiff, medium-heavy contour, but is double-fluted so that you have twice as many flutes as a lot of other barrels I've seen. You get a 6lb little AR15 before optics, using the modern lightweight handguards. AA 16" LW Fluted 6.5 Grendel Barrel I've been considering one of those, but the 9/16x24 threads have kept me from buying one since I plan on suppressing it. Most professional suppressor makers have brake attach devices with 9/16x24 threads. If you are direct-threading, then I can understand. can it be safely recut to 1/2x28? |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 4:30:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RWM]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RANGER_556:
I'd like to see side-by-side velocity and BC of the 6.5Grendel and the 6.5CM out of equal length barrels and distance. If they were truly close enough I'd be hard pressed to build on the 308AR platform. (currently wanting to build a 260rem). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RANGER_556:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
I have a 22" .260 Remington AR that I don't shoot that much anymore. To be honest, I've been looking at largely replacing it with a 22" 6.5 Grendel, since I realized that the .260 Rem gives me 150yds more performance than the Grendel when comparing the same bullets, and both are supersonic well past 1200yds already. I've spent so much time shooting the short barreled Grendel's, that the long-barreled ones have always been friends'. It's just too easy to shoot factory ammo in this, whereas I need to hand load exclusively for the .260 Rem gasser. On large game, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. Several people DRT'd elk this past season with 16" Grendel's and the 123gr SST even. I'd like to see side-by-side velocity and BC of the 6.5Grendel and the 6.5CM out of equal length barrels and distance. If they were truly close enough I'd be hard pressed to build on the 308AR platform. (currently wanting to build a 260rem). Why not do it with Hornandy or Nosler ballistics table ? Edit: Saw that had already been suggested. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:33:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RANGER_556:
I'd like to see side-by-side velocity and BC of the 6.5Grendel and the 6.5CM out of equal length barrels and distance. If they were truly close enough I'd be hard pressed to build on the 308AR platform. (currently wanting to build a 260rem). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RANGER_556:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
I have a 22" .260 Remington AR that I don't shoot that much anymore. To be honest, I've been looking at largely replacing it with a 22" 6.5 Grendel, since I realized that the .260 Rem gives me 150yds more performance than the Grendel when comparing the same bullets, and both are supersonic well past 1200yds already. I've spent so much time shooting the short barreled Grendel's, that the long-barreled ones have always been friends'. It's just too easy to shoot factory ammo in this, whereas I need to hand load exclusively for the .260 Rem gasser. On large game, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. Several people DRT'd elk this past season with 16" Grendel's and the 123gr SST even. I'd like to see side-by-side velocity and BC of the 6.5Grendel and the 6.5CM out of equal length barrels and distance. If they were truly close enough I'd be hard pressed to build on the 308AR platform. (currently wanting to build a 260rem). Just look at .260 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor muzzle velocity with a particular bullet, and see where it hits the Grendel's muzzle velocity. That's kind of an eye opener. Granted, you aren't going to be shooting 140gr in 6.5 Grendel at fast speeds, but I don't shoot 140gr in .260 Rem either since it is so slow, has way more drop, and is within .1 mils at 1000yds compared to 130gr, which is flatter. 123gr works a lot better in the gas gun action for a .260 Rem also, with 129gr and 130gr starting to push the edge unless you back off on charge weights. My 22" Bartlein .260 Rem pushes the 130gr VLD to 2800fps, which is a pretty hot hand load with H4350, the go-to .260 Rem powder for most (and extremely hard to find right now). 22" Grendel with LeveRevolution can push the same bullet to 2560fps, and I have no problem finding LeveRevolution. The .260 Rem hits 2560fps speed at 150yds. Both of them are supersonic at sea level out to 1240yds, with the .260 Rem going super out to 1375yds. It's a similar story with any of the 123gr bullets. Then I look at how big and beefy my .260 Rem LR receivers and BCG are, and how much the gun weighs. You start to see why it sits in parts while I build more Grendels. This Seekins upper is one of the heaviest AR15 uppers on the market too. 
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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:33:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Are those number theoretical or real numbers?
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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:37:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/IMG_04682_zpsn5aza19t.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/IMG_04711_zpska89wqxg.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/IMG_04701_zpsony4y9ve.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/IMG_04691_zpsfj39y4qu.jpg 
I'm not interested in your facts or logic..... Emotions and conjecture is where it's at.
Seriously though, all those little ounces add up....bigger receiver, bigger bolt, bigger barrel nut, bigger handguards, etc. All "just a few oz more"....but pretty soon you're at a full pound or more. Also, what does 20 rounds of 6.5G weigh compared to 20 rounds of 260 rem? |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:43:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RANGER_556:
Are those number theoretical or real numbers? No, those are over my chrono with the .260 Rem, and I'm handicapping what you can get with a 130gr with LVR intentionally in the Grendel because barrels will vary 100fps, depending on the barrel. One guy with a 24" Grendel has been getting over 2600fps with the 129gr SST and 130gr Sierra Game King. Factory 130gr Berger VLD and 130gr Hybrid AR are 2450fps from PF out of a 24". Alexander Arms gets 2510fps with a canister powder they use under the 130gr Norma Golden Target, and 2492fps with the 130gr Berger VLD. LVR will crank it though. 123gr with LVR has been doing 2740fps from a 24", and that data is in the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks. You can push a 123gr over 2900fps from the .260 Rem gasser though, but again, realized gains are very marginal downrange. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:50:29 PM EDT
[#33]
My 22" Bartlein barreled .260 with optics weighs 14lbs, and I'm using the lightweight JP handguard.
A 22" Grendel is easily kept under 10-11lbs. 20rds Hornady factory I just weighed at 13.3oz. 20rds Federal 140gr Game King (that I will never let near my .260 Rem) is 1lb 7.3oz. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:56:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
My 22" Bartlein barreled .260 with optics weighs 14lbs, and I'm using the lightweight JP handguard. A 22" Grendel is easily kept under 10-11lbs. 20rds Hornady factory I just weighed at 13.3oz. 20rds Federal 140gr Game King (that I will never let near my .260 Rem) is 1lb 7.3oz. This thread...as this information in particular above....is seriously making me reconsider my 260 rem build. I'm selling my 3 Armalite AR10s...with the original intention of replacing them with three built on DPMS/SR25 style frames. I may scrap that. Get one AR10 just to have a .308. and the build a 6.5Grendel for a long range gun. I'm not seeing the benefit really of the large frame. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 7:57:59 PM EDT
[#35]
The benefit of the .260 Rem is that it hits hard on steel at 1000yds, and is flatter for competition within the shorter distances.
I really like the cartridge a lot, and have both, but like I said, I don't shoot it that much anymore. What I really want is as light and short as a receiver set as I can get, that will allow me to bring the AR10 weight significantly down, and factory-available ammo that is specifically meant to work in a gas gun, that is affordable like 6.5 Grendel. In Florida, I doubt you have any ELR ranges to actually realize the ELR performance of the .260 Rem though. A 6.5 Grendel exceeds most of the range limitations of your public ranges and layout of the terrain on such flat topography. Out where I live in the Mountainous West, these cartridges and rifles are in a natural playground. The reason I want a lighter .260 Rem now is so that I can dual-duty it for target work, as well as a more dedicated long-range hunting stick, where I might encounter shots on elk out to 800yds that are well within my ballistic potential for an ethical kill through the vitals. At the altitudes where we hunt elk, my .260 Remington is supersonic out to 1625yds with the 129gr ABLR. That bullet still expands out to 1375yds from the .260 Rem 22" at 2800fps mv, 9200 ft elevation. Even my 18" Grendel with the 129gr ABLR flies like a laser up in the high mountains, and it only weighs 7lb 12oz with optics. I get 2400fps from it with that bullet, which stays supersonic out to 1300yds up there. Expansion is still viable at 1050yds. I have only 1 mil of drift in 10mph full value at 575yds. 6.5mm is no joke. The numbers are not just theoretical. They will make you look back at every linked 7.62 NATO belt you humped and curse the fools at Army Ordnance for creating that cartridge. I'm exceeding the terminal ballistics, external ballistics, with way less weight and chamber pressure than the Soviet 7.62x54R from a long barreled PKM or SVD with a tiny little AR15. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:05:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Someone please IM me the "what is a 6.5 Grendel?" thread.
I bet this is going to cost me................
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:25:19 PM EDT
[#37]
The combined December 2012/January 2013 issue of Shooting Times magazine argued the 6.5 Grendel was the best cartridge the Army did not have. The author interviewed Bill Alexander (of couse, he is NOT biased) who suggested the Grendel could consolidate the "entire suite of carbines, standard service rifles and designated marksman rifles....which represented dozens of models in 5.56 and 7.62 with just two rifles and two bullet weights". Alexander suggested the first of those would be an M4 carbine chambered in 6.5 Grendel with 14.5" barrel and 107 to 110 grain FMJs with a penetrator bullet design pushing 2,500 fps. This would solve the compromised lethality of the 5.56 in CQB and extends the effective range well beyond 300-400 yards with greater accuracy still using a set of 5.56 receivers. The second would be a 6.5 Grendel rifle with 20" barrel and 123g Lapua Scenars, pushing 2600 fps which is supersonic to 1,200 yards. Both suggested rifles would be minimally heavier than 5.56 weapons and significantly lighter than .308s. The logistical and gunsmithing simplification for the military would be huge, but there's a tremendous amount of both 5.56 and 7.62 ammo, rifles and magazines already out there both in action and storage. It will likely never happen. Given the data in the article as well as the great information earlier in this thread, particularly from LRRPF52, I have abandoned the thoughts of a .308 build and will do a Grendel instead using the last uncommitted lower receiver in my safe.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:41:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wildearp:
Someone please IM me the "what is a 6.5 Grendel?" thread.
I bet this is going to cost me................
This website has cost me more than I care to admit. This subforum has caused the most in the recent past. I've scraped three builds....two which where 90-95% complete...in order to start new projects. If you want an AR10 in 308...check the EE soon! A SASS, an M4-308, and a M110 look-a-like
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:45:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paul49:
.... as well as the great information earlier in this thread, particularly from LRRPF52,........ Honestly, he is the "Keith_J" of the Precision sub-forum. 
Seriously, LRRPF52, I genuinely thank you for your very informative and well thought out threads and responses. You are definitely an asset to this website. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:47:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LRRPF52]
[#40]
I really can't express in words very well how badly I wanted a 7.62 NATO "CAR-15" (CAR-15 was actually a Colt modular weapons family, not a particualr model) when I was a kid.
I knew nobody would ever make it though, as the political climate was in full swing against "assault rifles", and it was buy or sell what you could before various bans went into effect. This was in the days of the MacDonald's massacre, the Stockton School Yard shootings, and the CA AWB years before the Clinton AWB. Anyway, then KAC introduced the SR-25K limited run of 100 pre-ban carbines, I had to have one, but by that time, I was a lowly PFC scratching in a meager monthly income, and they were all bought by then. That was the last chance to own a 7.62 NATO Carbine, so I thought. 10 years later, when the ban expired, it was on like Donkey Kong, but I was into long range competition in military Sniper matches, so all my AR10s and LRs were chambered in .308 Win., then .260 Rem. Grendel had just come out in 2004, and one of the SOTIC instructors I knew got one of the first ones and loved it. I watched the market for a while, and started looking at getting a barrel and bolt. Some of my Finnish Sniper buddies had already given me 6.5 Grendel brass, and I had a lot of 6.5mm projectiles already from loading for 2 different .260 Remington ARs. I finally got an AA barrel/bolt combo from Midway, and threw it in an MGI Quick Barrel Change upper for initial testing. There was no SAAMI acceptance or submission at the time. I was initially unimpressed in many ways, but it slowly grew on me, especially as I found better powders to work with, and started shooting steel with it. It hits a lot harder than a 5.56 or 7.62x39, even though you're shooting the same bullet weight and similar muzzle velocity as a 7.62x39. Instead of falling like a rock out to 300yds, it flies like a spear past 1000yds. 7.62 NATO carbine plans went away after that. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:40:21 PM EDT
[#41]
LRRPF52,
It is your very well written posts on this cartridge that got me looking at it. Once I started researching, the more I became intrigued with this little cartridge, so intrigued, I ended up building one. Now I am competition F-class shooter, and I have a test bed .260 that I shoot and hunt with. The velocities and accuracy that rifle was capable of, made me poo poo the Grendel at first, but yet here now I have one. A little background, I made High Master in Mid Range F-class shooting only F-TR, and got there with lots of trigger time and practice. My home range goes out to 600yds with pit service, so I am very lucky to be able to shoot as often as I do. I also shot in a few service rifle and XTC matches, using the AR platform, which is not something I would even consider for serious F-class shooting, but I enjoyed shooting them. I hunt with a .308 and on my last outing, came to the conclusion a 24in barrel was too cumbersome, I was looking for something a little more handy. I did not want a shorty 308 or a gasser. I felt I gave up too much performance in the 308 going that route. Shorty 308's are really loud and gassers give up too much velocity, remember I shoot F-class where speed and accuracy are everything. In comes the Grendel, it has everything I wanted out of a do all rifle, competition like accuracy, excellent ballistics and selection from the 6.5mm class bullets, both match and hunting, all in a nice maneuverable package. So I built one, and am in the testing phase with it, so far it has exceeded my expectations. Plus I think with the new AR tactical rifle division that is now available in competition, I think that the Grendel will be a very popular option in that class. So thanks for the informative posts. SY |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 4:00:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Pulled the trigger on the AA 16"
good price and should make a light-handy rifle. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2016 8:18:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Please report back your shipping arrival and range experience.
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Posted: 4/29/2016 8:23:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RANGER_556:
Pulled the trigger on the AA 16" good price and should make a light-handy rifle. That's why a went for it too. Love my 18" ar10, but wanted something lighter that is more friendly on my old back and shoulders
mock-up pic : 
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Posted: 4/30/2016 12:02:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LRRPF52]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Arkhangel:
LRRPF52, It is your very well written posts on this cartridge that got me looking at it. Once I started researching, the more I became intrigued with this little cartridge, so intrigued, I ended up building one. Now I am competition F-class shooter, and I have a test bed .260 that I shoot and hunt with. The velocities and accuracy that rifle was capable of, made me poo poo the Grendel at first, but yet here now I have one. A little background, I made High Master in Mid Range F-class shooting only F-TR, and got there with lots of trigger time and practice. My home range goes out to 600yds with pit service, so I am very lucky to be able to shoot as often as I do. I also shot in a few service rifle and XTC matches, using the AR platform, which is not something I would even consider for serious F-class shooting, but I enjoyed shooting them. I hunt with a .308 and on my last outing, came to the conclusion a 24in barrel was too cumbersome, I was looking for something a little more handy. I did not want a shorty 308 or a gasser. I felt I gave up too much performance in the 308 going that route. Shorty 308's are really loud and gassers give up too much velocity, remember I shoot F-class where speed and accuracy are everything. In comes the Grendel, it has everything I wanted out of a do all rifle, competition like accuracy, excellent ballistics and selection from the 6.5mm class bullets, both match and hunting, all in a nice maneuverable package. So I built one, and am in the testing phase with it, so far it has exceeded my expectations. Plus I think with the new AR tactical rifle division that is now available in competition, I think that the Grendel will be a very popular option in that class. So thanks for the informative posts. SY Believe me, I know all too well what it's like to hump a 24" heavy .308 through the woods. We had M24 Sniper Weapon Systems in the 3 Scout Sniper Platoons I was in, which is a beast of a rifle. Instead of making any sense with it, they built it on a long action for starters, then screwed in a heavy contour barrel with a .900" muzzle. 
It was fine for laying in the prone and shooting KD ranges to learn about connecting at distance, but sucked as a field weapon, especially if you got busted, which actually happened to some buddies of mine in 3-325 AIR in OIF1 who were attached to A Co, and survived by the skin of their teeth after being rushed by hundreds of Fedayeen. One of my friends dug out an MRE from his assault pack later that day after the battle, and found an AK projectile lodged within inches from his spine, and kept it as a reminder. The 24" AR10s and SR25s are often heavier, and just not fun to carry unless you really get a light profile contour, carbon fiber or thin aluminum handguard, and then recoil is felt more. 
Another buddy of mine who shoots F-Class had something go wrong with his 7mm WSM, and used his Grendel as a back-up, and actually did pretty well with it, not that it would be competitive with 6.5-284, but it can surprise you. I agree that it will probably be the factory cartridge to beat in the new NRA discipline for AR15s. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2016 12:12:40 AM EDT
[#46]
LRRPF52,
Took the Grendel out today, shot out to 600yds. New scope, no zero, shooting on club's new Silver Mountain Electronic Target system set up for testing. Was on target in 3 shots, shooting 123gr SMK's doing ~2460fps out of a 18" Satern .750 barrel. Norma brass from Midway, CCIBR4 primer, 8208XBR powder Think it will do well in the AR Tactical division, Was able to hold 10 ring on 600yd F-class target. Was surprised it flew that well going slow, but should not be a problem. Think I am going to like this little cartridge. SY |
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Posted: 5/2/2016 5:09:49 PM EDT
[#47]
They start relatively slow at the muzzle, but BC erases that difference really quick.
18" 5.56 with 77gr SMK smoking 2800fps at the muzzle, Litz BC .380 600yds 1557fps 1.8 mils wind 18" 6.5 Grendel easy/mild load, 2460fps 123gr SMK .522 Litz BC 600yds 1588fps 1.5 Mils drift You can get 2500fps without pushing hard using CFE, but XBR is less temp sensitive and one of the accuracy powders. I get phenomenal accuracy with CFE from 18", with 123gr AMAX, and would have no reservations competing with it against more capable calibers, because I can get way more wind-reading and trigger time in a day than I can with a lot of the other larger cases, even without use of a muzzle brake. |
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Posted: 5/2/2016 11:06:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Honestly, the more I read this thread and learn about the 6.5G I'm truly shocked that the .mil hasn't made the leap.
Screw NATO. Lake City could change over to new dies and brass in a matter of months. Could you imagine having one caliber for everything from the M4's, M249, Designated marksman rifles, Sniper rifles, and hell......it looks like the ballistics are good enough for the HMG's weapons squad. F'ing political red tape.....keeping war-fighters ham-stringed since the Moro Rebellion |
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Posted: 5/2/2016 11:14:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LRRPF52]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RANGER_556:
Honestly, the more I read this thread and learn about the 6.5G I'm truly shocked that the .mil hasn't made the leap. Screw NATO. Lake City could change over to new dies and brass in a matter of months. Could you imagine having one caliber for everything from the M4's, M249, Designated marksman rifles, Sniper rifles, and hell......it looks like the ballistics are good enough for the HMG's weapons squad. F'ing political red tape.....keeping war-fighters ham-stringed since the Moro Rebellion There are a lot of considerations even before addressing the operational logistics end to make a switch like that. Where it does make sense right now is for snipers and DMs who are already relying on special M118LR for the M110. I've already had USMC 1st MARDIV Sniper Instructors, retired guys from CAG, and others talk about how much better it is than M118LR, added to the fact that you still have a carbine you can fight with like an M4 for the close fight. For light machineguns, it makes a lot of sense, but we'll see what happens with 6.5mm LSAT. That will exceed the effective range of the PKM and SVD, with more retained energy, less wind deflection, and way less than half the recoil. The Russians are actually looking hard and serious at 6.5 Grendel and 6.5x39, and might actually jump the gun on us. PKM and SVD threat are what we need to be looking at over-matching with a lighter system, and 6.5mm with a .550 G1 BC is the way to do that, with only a 2450-2500fps muzzle velocity. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2016 11:44:58 PM EDT
[#50]
LRRPF52,
Thx for the info of the 6.5 vs .223 @600yds. That's always good to know. I have some CFE223 powder I will test down the road, but decided to go with IMR 8208 because I have quite a bit of it. Only reason I am using 123 SMK's is that I have them and am out of the 123 Amax's, need to order some more. My Grendel does not have 100 rounds thru it yet, but am planning on shooting it in a AR Tactical match in 3 weeks, at 300, 500 and 600yds. How temp sensitive have you found CFE223 to be? I am in Fl and it is getting hot, so I tend to prefer temp insensitive powders. Just picking your brain. SY |
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