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Posted: 9/4/2009 3:38:00 PM EST
hey all,
i'm trying to pick a new pack. intended as primary SHTF type all around . i'm having trouble with the designations.

patrol pack, assault pack, etc.

i'm looking at surplus molle type packs exclusively, is that a mistake? for around $40 i'm i waisting my $?

right now i have a german "mauntan special forces" pack, i think what they are calling them. i paid $10 for it 5 yrs. ago brand new, and besides storage for extra gun gear, it's never been used. it's not very comfortable and not easy to organise.

any help apreciated
2D2C
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 5:21:13 PM EST
Ok first of $40 for a pack you will be getting one well used pack for that much. Getting military style pack! Why? Remember cheapest bidder! More impotent is this and I've been trying to get this through to people but most think I'm wrong! You might also but I'm telling you this from a Military, LEO and survivalist point of view.

Military style packs draw attention to you. When I was in Iraq you had anything military style on I was talking to you! As a LEO down in Texas along the border you had a military pack white or non white I found something to stop you for and had a talk with you! Got a 300lbs dope bust by doing that saw three guys in a minivan at the time I saw one seabags in there and these guys where not Marines or Sailors watched them pull out from the gas station pulled them over cause there Lic plate light was out ran the plates got a wanted hit called for backup at the time it was only the border patrol got the three guys out of the minivan found 300lbs of dope a U.S government issued 1911 still said Property of U.S on it a Browning Hi power 9mm, 6 tablets of EX. Just cause I saw that one seabag they had 6 in the van.

Survivalist point I had gone on a hike with a ALICE pack I live in an area where a lot of "Backpackers" come through most of them scummy hippies who have not showed in weeks all look like they have a bong and some dope on them if there not smoking it at that time! So I though I would be ok trying out my new boots and my new pack I'm clean cut short hair still look like a Marine I had on a white underarmor shirt blue jeans and my new Danner boots. I was walking for not more then a hour when I had red and blues flashing behind me I stopped as the officer came out I asked him if he wanted me to keep the pack on or place it on the ground? he told me to keep it on asked for my ID showed it to him. Then asked if there was a problem? He looked at me and asked if I had worked for the county as a Bailiff I said I had he laughed and said they had 10 calls about a man walking with a military style pack on and it looked like he might be up to something!

Now my advice is look like other backpackers I still have the ALICE pack but now I know better then to wear it around! Get a "Sheep backpack" one that people will not notice! I know a lot of sheep packs are bright and I hate it also but Look here and here they are some good ones to look at they may cost more buy they will be worth it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 5:53:02 PM EST
well, sometimes the truth isn't what you want to hear.

thank you for thoughts on this, very insightful.

i consider myself grossly unprepaired and i'm miles ahead of most everyone i know, personally. in this day and age i know grown men who don't own a handgun, others that only have a .22 rifle.

i've got primary, secondary, third string and handouts covered. yet i don't have a BOB. i guess i have one but it's empty. so i need the best for the least and surplus i've seen on ebay seemed to fit the bill. i could always get a rainbow rain cover so i looked like a hippy

thanks
2D2C
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 7:29:36 PM EST
A little something I learned in the Army... you can spraypaint anything. Yes, anything. So if you buy a yuppie-bag and you really need it camo'd, just put a few layers of paint, or get it really muddy, then clean it off. That is the same technique used to make ghillie suits more camo'd; the mud leaves good stains. Sometimes military surplus leaves something to be desired, but often times the companies that make aftermarket military gear put out really good products. Try http://www.optactical.com/, they carry quite a few of these.

Try to find something that is comfortable enough to walk with, but also lends itself to being a 'travel bag', ie it has several easily accessible pouches. I own some fairly high end bags (300+), and I like them, but dropping that kind of money for a bag to be used in the event of riots or natural disasters isn't really necessary. Those are bags made for war. Good luck bro.
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 7:54:46 PM EST
If you don't mind camo or if you like multi-cam, look into the new ILBE packs the Marine Corps uses. Yes, they're more than $40, much more. If you can afford it, consider that it is one the most comfortable packs I've used.
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 9:52:52 PM EST
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 1:01:09 AM EST
Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


i get no looks at all wearing it in my house either

On our arfcom hike we always get looks,every time becuase guys are wearing earth tones, mixed camo,camo packs, military packs.....

i even get looks just because of the earth tones ( black/od Kelty,khakis and yellow columbiashirt and tan colombia boonie)
i laos have short hair, look semi clean cut ( have face hair) etc...

alice packs are fine,a simple pack cover can help..but to be honest, buy a good ruck, comfort is key in how far you will travel not how much crap you can add via molle or what color the pack is...
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 1:43:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 2:57:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By protus:
Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


i get no looks at all wearing it in my house either

is...


haha

to answer the OP's question - the stuff I am issued i can't imagine why someone would want it. I am a fan of maxpedition stuff now. But I have the new issue Molle medium ruck in acu digital, still in bag, and I don't like it. Pockets everywhere, sinch straps, too complicated for my tiny pea brain.
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 4:10:00 AM EST
Keep checking Cabela's bargain bin . Last month they had the Kelty Redwing pack on sale for $39.99 . It normally sells for $89.99 to $99.99 .
Link Posted: 9/5/2009 5:43:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By FordGuy:
to answer the OP's question - the stuff I am issued i can't imagine why someone would want it. I am a fan of maxpedition stuff now. But I have the new issue Molle medium ruck in acu digital, still in bag, and I don't like it. Pockets everywhere, sinch straps, too complicated for my tiny pea brain.


I do not find the current MOLLE ruck to be comfortable unless I am wearing IBA or IOTV. I think it was designed for this use. Also, the frames break easily.

I never customized my ALICE too much. I had a buddy who pimped his with the TT shoulder straps and hip belt, along with foam from a sleeping pad and a braiding 550 pull handle. He also added compression straps. It was a nice ruck. Comfort was on par with civy packs.

Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:38:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:13:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.


Yep and the LEO and military guys will not be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist " take it from some one who has been military duty and LEO they tell us to look for that stuff! Military gear is great but stick out when your the guy with a camo MOLLE pack! Your trying to lay low and look like everyone else not stick out. If you do not think by the time you need to use your BOB they are not going to be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist" and that they will not tell the LEO and military to stop anyone who sticks out (I.E military gear) then you are fooling yourself.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 1:11:22 PM EST
Get a med alice I used one for years with no issues. I now have T.H.E. pack and like it but wish I had my old alice back
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 2:16:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 3:23:06 PM EST by tiberias]
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.


Yep and the LEO and military guys will not be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist " take it from some one who has been military duty and LEO they tell us to look for that stuff! Military gear is great but stick out when your the guy with a camo MOLLE pack! Your trying to lay low and look like everyone else not stick out. If you do not think by the time you need to use your BOB they are not going to be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist" and that they will not tell the LEO and military to stop anyone who sticks out (I.E military gear) then you are fooling yourself.


So just what does a "domestic terrorist" look like?

When was the last time you arrested a "domestic terrorist" on US soil who was carrying a military pack? In fact how many "domestic terrorists" have been legitimately arrested on US soil as the backpack they were carrying flagged them as a terrorist.

Because I carry a Camo backpack, I'm a "domestic terrorist"? If I carry my gerber multi-tool, onto a plane I'd get arrested. Granny can't even bring a pair of scissors on a plane to knit while traveling. Now I have to take my shoes off, because they might be dangerous? What a sad world we are coming to.

In this day and age everyone is a "domestic terrorist". They are probably watching these boards as it is. You approve of guns, you're a terrorist.

It used to be that if someone verbally assaulted someone, then that is just what it was. Now days it is "terroristic threats". We are all terrorists, as the category keeps getting expanded everyday.

With the new hate crime bill passed, they can make whatever determination they want as a hate crime, and deem you a terrorist. You have a military manual in your possession just for informational and survival purposes, then you can be twisted into a terrorist. Yet military manuals have very good information about surviving, but I suppose we ought to abandon that as well?

If you believe the whole Oklahoma city bombing story, then Mcveigh was a "domestic terrorist". Was he driving a military truck? Nope. If that is the case you think LEO's would be pulling over every rental truck, just to be sure.

Anyone seriously think a real "domestic terrorist" is going to carry a military pack......doubt it.

Just because a guy is hoofing out of town like everyone else escaping what ever the disaster is does not make that person a terrorist because of the color and material of his pack.

Odds are I will be throwing my pack in the back of my vehicle anyhow, so it matters not what it is made of. If vehicle travel is impossible then if you seriously think the police are going to stop thousands of people in a mass exodus, then you are fooling yourself. Sure in peaceful times, a single guy decked in camo and military equipment is going to raise the alert of the sheep, but in the event of a disaster you as a LEO better be at ground zero, instead of worrying about what I am wearing as I take my family away from a disaster.

Do you realize the absolute complete absurdity of your profiling? The whole "domestic terrorist" pandemic is nothing but a huge load of BS, fueled by the outlandish paranoia of the previous administration. You have a better chance of spotting a faire and a unicorn than a "domestic terrorist".

So with all dues respect, as a trained professional you ought to know better and if you don't then shame on you. I'm sorry you even seriously think that anyone who carries an Alice pack could be a terrorist. Very, very sad.

I suppose the thought police will be coming soon..
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 2:47:37 PM EST
Look for a German surplus mountain ruck. You should be able to get one for half your budget. Excellent quality, decent size. Could use more compartments, but if you organize your stuf right, you can get around that hurdle. It is also possible (if you are smart enough) to attach accessories like hydration packs, etc... to them. I had an Arktis hump zip-tied to mine for a while. They wear very comfortably (for me) and are usually in excellent condition. They also don't look too para-military if you are concerned about that sort of thing.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 3:57:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.


Yep and the LEO and military guys will not be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist " take it from some one who has been military duty and LEO they tell us to look for that stuff! Military gear is great but stick out when your the guy with a camo MOLLE pack! Your trying to lay low and look like everyone else not stick out. If you do not think by the time you need to use your BOB they are not going to be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist" and that they will not tell the LEO and military to stop anyone who sticks out (I.E military gear) then you are fooling yourself.


So just what does a "domestic terrorist" look like?

When was the last time you arrested a "domestic terrorist" on US soil who was carrying a military pack? In fact how many "domestic terrorists" have been legitimately arrested on US soil as the backpack they were carrying flagged them as a terrorist.

Because I carry a Camo backpack, I'm a "domestic terrorist"? If I carry my gerber multi-tool, onto a plane I'd get arrested. Granny can't even bring a pair of scissors on a plane to knit while traveling. Now I have to take my shoes off, because they might be dangerous? What a sad world we are coming to.

In this day and age everyone is a "domestic terrorist". They are probably watching these boards as it is. You approve of guns, you're a terrorist.

It used to be that if someone verbally assaulted someone, then that is just what it was. Now days it is "terroristic threats". We are all terrorists, as the category keeps getting expanded everyday.

With the new hate crime bill passed, they can make whatever determination they want as a hate crime, and deem you a terrorist. You have a military manual in your possession just for informational and survival purposes, then you can be twisted into a terrorist. Yet military manuals have very good information about surviving, but I suppose we ought to abandon that as well?

If you believe the whole Oklahoma city bombing story, then Mcveigh was a "domestic terrorist". Was he driving a military truck? Nope. If that is the case you think LEO's would be pulling over every rental truck, just to be sure.

Anyone seriously think a real "domestic terrorist" is going to carry a military pack......doubt it. They did in Iraq!

Just because a guy is hoofing out of town like everyone else escaping what ever the disaster is does not make that person a terrorist because of the color and material of his pack.

Odds are I will be throwing my pack in the back of my vehicle anyhow, so it matters not what it is made of. If vehicle travel is impossible then if you seriously think the police are going to stop thousands of people in a mass exodus, then you are fooling yourself. Sure in peaceful times, a single guy decked in camo and military equipment is going to raise the alert of the sheep, but in the event of a disaster you as a LEO better be at ground zero, instead of worrying about what I am wearing as I take my family away from a disaster.

Do you realize the absolute complete absurdity of your profiling? The whole "domestic terrorist" pandemic is nothing but a huge load of BS, fueled by the outlandish paranoia of the previous administration. You have a better chance of spotting a faire and a unicorn than a "domestic terrorist". Ok like I said when you need your BOB they will be looking out for people who do not fit in with the rest of the crowd! If you do not think they will use the whole "domestic terrorist" on us then you have your head in the sand!! The DHS has profiled Vets as "domestic terrorist" do you not think if something big happens like an attack a bomb blowing up they will not throw out the "domestic terrorist" word out and tell LEO and military to look for people that stand out?

So with all dues respect, as a trained professional you ought to know better and if you don't then shame on you. I'm sorry you even seriously think that anyone who carries an Alice pack could be a terrorist. Very, very sad. I'm not saying cause you have an ALICE your a terrorist what I'm trying to get through is that if SHTF non weather related say an attack you stand a greater risk if being detained then the guy with a North Face pack. Why you ask? Cause I'm looking for a type who might have just attacked a city/town whatever military items such as your pack are going to make LEO and military look at you and stop you! Think about the jack a$$ we have in the Oval office you do not think he will throw out the whole "domestic terrorist" if there is an attack! All I'm saying is play it smart! Why chance having some LEO or military pull you aside cause you have on what they would say is a "suspicious " pack at the time after an attack that reasonable doubt enough for most judges to say that they had a right to stop you! Now in that pack you have a pistol ammo maybe an AR-15 with a few mags guess what you look like right now!? Don't think pulling out a CCW going to get you off. So why risk it yes it should not happen but you know it will

I suppose the thought police will be coming soon..


Link Posted: 9/7/2009 4:17:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.


Yep and the LEO and military guys will not be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist " take it from some one who has been military duty and LEO they tell us to look for that stuff! Military gear is great but stick out when your the guy with a camo MOLLE pack! Your trying to lay low and look like everyone else not stick out. If you do not think by the time you need to use your BOB they are not going to be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist" and that they will not tell the LEO and military to stop anyone who sticks out (I.E military gear) then you are fooling yourself.


So just what does a "domestic terrorist" look like?

When was the last time you arrested a "domestic terrorist" on US soil who was carrying a military pack? In fact how many "domestic terrorists" have been legitimately arrested on US soil as the backpack they were carrying flagged them as a terrorist.

Because I carry a Camo backpack, I'm a "domestic terrorist"? If I carry my gerber multi-tool, onto a plane I'd get arrested. Granny can't even bring a pair of scissors on a plane to knit while traveling. Now I have to take my shoes off, because they might be dangerous? What a sad world we are coming to.

In this day and age everyone is a "domestic terrorist". They are probably watching these boards as it is. You approve of guns, you're a terrorist.

It used to be that if someone verbally assaulted someone, then that is just what it was. Now days it is "terroristic threats". We are all terrorists, as the category keeps getting expanded everyday.

With the new hate crime bill passed, they can make whatever determination they want as a hate crime, and deem you a terrorist. You have a military manual in your possession just for informational and survival purposes, then you can be twisted into a terrorist. Yet military manuals have very good information about surviving, but I suppose we ought to abandon that as well?

If you believe the whole Oklahoma city bombing story, then Mcveigh was a "domestic terrorist". Was he driving a military truck? Nope. If that is the case you think LEO's would be pulling over every rental truck, just to be sure.

Anyone seriously think a real "domestic terrorist" is going to carry a military pack......doubt it. They did in Iraq! This is not Iraq and the military and police should well remember that.

Just because a guy is hoofing out of town like everyone else escaping what ever the disaster is does not make that person a terrorist because of the color and material of his pack.

Odds are I will be throwing my pack in the back of my vehicle anyhow, so it matters not what it is made of. If vehicle travel is impossible then if you seriously think the police are going to stop thousands of people in a mass exodus, then you are fooling yourself. Sure in peaceful times, a single guy decked in camo and military equipment is going to raise the alert of the sheep, but in the event of a disaster you as a LEO better be at ground zero, instead of worrying about what I am wearing as I take my family away from a disaster.

Do you realize the absolute complete absurdity of your profiling? The whole "domestic terrorist" pandemic is nothing but a huge load of BS, fueled by the outlandish paranoia of the previous administration. You have a better chance of spotting a faire and a unicorn than a "domestic terrorist". Ok like I said when you need your BOB they will be looking out for people who do not fit in with the rest of the crowd! If you do not think they will use the whole "domestic terrorist" on us then you have your head in the sand!! The DHS has profiled Vets as "domestic terrorist" do you not think if something big happens like an attack a bomb blowing up they will not throw out the "domestic terrorist" word out and tell LEO and military to look for people that stand out? Of course they will, but the real terrorists will not be using surplus military gear, they will be using North Face packs. Plus if they determined that "terrorists" were using North Face Packs then using an Alice pack removes you from the profile.

So with all dues respect, as a trained professional you ought to know better and if you don't then shame on you. I'm sorry you even seriously think that anyone who carries an Alice pack could be a terrorist. Very, very sad. I'm not saying cause you have an ALICE your a terrorist what I'm trying to get through is that if SHTF non weather related say an attack you stand a greater risk if being detained then the guy with a North Face pack. Why you ask? Cause I'm looking for a type who might have just attacked a city/town whatever military items such as your pack are going to make LEO and military look at you and stop you! Think about the jack a$$ we have in the Oval office you do not think he will throw out the whole "domestic terrorist" if there is an attack! All I'm saying is play it smart! Why chance having some LEO or military pull you aside cause you have on what they would say is a "suspicious " pack at the time after an attack that reasonable doubt enough for most judges to say that they had a right to stop you! Now in that pack you have a pistol ammo maybe an AR-15 with a few mags guess what you look like right now!? Don't think pulling out a CCW going to get you off. So why risk it yes it should not happen but you know it will Well if a bomb went off and you don't have any bomb materials then you don't fit the profile. Besides by the time they have figured out what happened and pull all the LEO's in for briefing, then most of those who will leave will have already left. In the event of a catastrophy like that, they won't have the man power or resources to look or stop people until days later. By then most preppers would either have dug in, or will be gone.

I suppose the thought police will be coming soon..




Link Posted: 9/7/2009 5:08:43 PM EST
the only good thing about where i live in NewYork is no funny looks for camo anything. probably cause all within 1 hour we have stewart AFB, west point, nyma fort drum so not too bad here
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 5:20:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.


Yep and the LEO and military guys will not be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist " take it from some one who has been military duty and LEO they tell us to look for that stuff! Military gear is great but stick out when your the guy with a camo MOLLE pack! Your trying to lay low and look like everyone else not stick out. If you do not think by the time you need to use your BOB they are not going to be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist" and that they will not tell the LEO and military to stop anyone who sticks out (I.E military gear) then you are fooling yourself.


So just what does a "domestic terrorist" look like?

When was the last time you arrested a "domestic terrorist" on US soil who was carrying a military pack? In fact how many "domestic terrorists" have been legitimately arrested on US soil as the backpack they were carrying flagged them as a terrorist.

Because I carry a Camo backpack, I'm a "domestic terrorist"? If I carry my gerber multi-tool, onto a plane I'd get arrested. Granny can't even bring a pair of scissors on a plane to knit while traveling. Now I have to take my shoes off, because they might be dangerous? What a sad world we are coming to.

In this day and age everyone is a "domestic terrorist". They are probably watching these boards as it is. You approve of guns, you're a terrorist.

It used to be that if someone verbally assaulted someone, then that is just what it was. Now days it is "terroristic threats". We are all terrorists, as the category keeps getting expanded everyday.

With the new hate crime bill passed, they can make whatever determination they want as a hate crime, and deem you a terrorist. You have a military manual in your possession just for informational and survival purposes, then you can be twisted into a terrorist. Yet military manuals have very good information about surviving, but I suppose we ought to abandon that as well?

If you believe the whole Oklahoma city bombing story, then Mcveigh was a "domestic terrorist". Was he driving a military truck? Nope. If that is the case you think LEO's would be pulling over every rental truck, just to be sure.

Anyone seriously think a real "domestic terrorist" is going to carry a military pack......doubt it. They did in Iraq! This is not Iraq and the military and police should well remember that.

Just because a guy is hoofing out of town like everyone else escaping what ever the disaster is does not make that person a terrorist because of the color and material of his pack.

Odds are I will be throwing my pack in the back of my vehicle anyhow, so it matters not what it is made of. If vehicle travel is impossible then if you seriously think the police are going to stop thousands of people in a mass exodus, then you are fooling yourself. Sure in peaceful times, a single guy decked in camo and military equipment is going to raise the alert of the sheep, but in the event of a disaster you as a LEO better be at ground zero, instead of worrying about what I am wearing as I take my family away from a disaster.

Do you realize the absolute complete absurdity of your profiling? The whole "domestic terrorist" pandemic is nothing but a huge load of BS, fueled by the outlandish paranoia of the previous administration. You have a better chance of spotting a faire and a unicorn than a "domestic terrorist". Ok like I said when you need your BOB they will be looking out for people who do not fit in with the rest of the crowd! If you do not think they will use the whole "domestic terrorist" on us then you have your head in the sand!! The DHS has profiled Vets as "domestic terrorist" do you not think if something big happens like an attack a bomb blowing up they will not throw out the "domestic terrorist" word out and tell LEO and military to look for people that stand out? Of course they will, but the real terrorists will not be using surplus military gear, they will be using North Face packs. Plus if they determined that "terrorists" were using North Face Packs then using an Alice pack removes you from the profile.

So with all dues respect, as a trained professional you ought to know better and if you don't then shame on you. I'm sorry you even seriously think that anyone who carries an Alice pack could be a terrorist. Very, very sad. I'm not saying cause you have an ALICE your a terrorist what I'm trying to get through is that if SHTF non weather related say an attack you stand a greater risk if being detained then the guy with a North Face pack. Why you ask? Cause I'm looking for a type who might have just attacked a city/town whatever military items such as your pack are going to make LEO and military look at you and stop you! Think about the jack a$$ we have in the Oval office you do not think he will throw out the whole "domestic terrorist" if there is an attack! All I'm saying is play it smart! Why chance having some LEO or military pull you aside cause you have on what they would say is a "suspicious " pack at the time after an attack that reasonable doubt enough for most judges to say that they had a right to stop you! Now in that pack you have a pistol ammo maybe an AR-15 with a few mags guess what you look like right now!? Don't think pulling out a CCW going to get you off. So why risk it yes it should not happen but you know it will Well if a bomb went off and you don't have any bomb materials then you don't fit the profile. Besides by the time they have figured out what happened and pull all the LEO's in for briefing, then most of those who will leave will have already left. In the event of a catastrophy like that, they won't have the man power or resources to look or stop people until days later. By then most preppers would either have dug in, or will be gone.

I suppose the thought police will be coming soon..






That's fine keep your head where it is! There sure seem to be a lot of people these days that never where in the military or LEO that just know everything about them and how they work its funny!
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 7:17:08 PM EST
I hike with my GHB regularly, its a military style assault pack. I have noticed a few strange looks though.

I think an inexpensive pack cover solves a lot of these problems or even a garbage bag.

Easy to blend in with all the unprepared sheeple with a garbage bag on your back.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 7:34:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.


Yep and the LEO and military guys will not be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist " take it from some one who has been military duty and LEO they tell us to look for that stuff! Military gear is great but stick out when your the guy with a camo MOLLE pack! Your trying to lay low and look like everyone else not stick out. If you do not think by the time you need to use your BOB they are not going to be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist" and that they will not tell the LEO and military to stop anyone who sticks out (I.E military gear) then you are fooling yourself.


I'm retired .mil etc and never had a problem even when on the A.T.
I guess I'm just lucky. Glad i don't live wherever the LEO's are treating you like that.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 7:48:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mills11b:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.


Yep and the LEO and military guys will not be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist " take it from some one who has been military duty and LEO they tell us to look for that stuff! Military gear is great but stick out when your the guy with a camo MOLLE pack! Your trying to lay low and look like everyone else not stick out. If you do not think by the time you need to use your BOB they are not going to be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist" and that they will not tell the LEO and military to stop anyone who sticks out (I.E military gear) then you are fooling yourself.


I'm retired .mil etc and never had a problem even when on the A.T.
I guess I'm just lucky. Glad i don't live wherever the LEO's are treating you like that.


I was talking about a SHTF lets say a bomb going off as a military man not know what branch you are in or what your job was. Who would you stop to have a look at if you where told to stop suspicious looking people coming out of the blast area? The guy with the everyday pack or the guy with a military style pack? What one are you going to look twice at and harder at?
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 9:26:35 PM EST
It all depends on your AO. I work in a town that is host to a Military base and a State University. No one thinks anything of anyone walking down the street with a backpack on, military or civillian. It could be 2am and you could be running down the highway in your underware. As long as you have on a refelective PT band like they sell at the local mil surp stores no one is going to question you.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:14:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 1:25:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2009 1:25:50 AM EST by protus]

Originally Posted By raf:
Interesting


very

guys lets step back a second here.

I want you all to honestly try something here. Ok your standing on street corner XYZ ,what do you think when you see-

A- mid 30's male, work slacks, duty boots, northface pack, clean cut, columbia shirt, ball cap with subduded american flag
b- mid 30's guy, bed head for hair, t shirt,well used external framed pack.stained jeans and wore out new balance's or merrels.
c- mid 30's guy, boonie, ICBs or tact boots, Tan tactical or any solid color BDU pant, earth tone short ( either Tshirt or button up) Eagle 3 day ( or any tactical 3 day assualtpack)

all 3 are walking with purpose,......

whos mostly likely to stand out to you as a threat,non threat or who may be a shooter( have weapons on them).

We may not think that what we wear even in daily life projects a "gun" vibe, but it does.
Who buys tactical gear- sorry it aint the crunchy hippies on the AT because 3 day packs are da bomb....it aint yuppy volvo driving suburbanites walking around wearing converse tacticalboots and a HSGI ball cap with moral patches on it.....

that said....any thing earth tone and military look stands out.
EVERY time,,EVERY time, folks hike on the FT ( flordia trail) on the open hikes come in contact with others , looks are given and there has been comments made. If you dont notice that your either NOT doing it like you say you are or your head is in the clouds.
I will say AO has some play in this, asif you live in amilitary townor near a base you can get away with some things , if your not in that AO people notice....and it aint the sheep
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 3:10:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2009 4:47:36 AM EST by tiberias]
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.


Yep and the LEO and military guys will not be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist " take it from some one who has been military duty and LEO they tell us to look for that stuff! Military gear is great but stick out when your the guy with a camo MOLLE pack! Your trying to lay low and look like everyone else not stick out. If you do not think by the time you need to use your BOB they are not going to be looking for people who could be "domestic terrorist" and that they will not tell the LEO and military to stop anyone who sticks out (I.E military gear) then you are fooling yourself.


So just what does a "domestic terrorist" look like?

When was the last time you arrested a "domestic terrorist" on US soil who was carrying a military pack? In fact how many "domestic terrorists" have been legitimately arrested on US soil as the backpack they were carrying flagged them as a terrorist.

Because I carry a Camo backpack, I'm a "domestic terrorist"? If I carry my gerber multi-tool, onto a plane I'd get arrested. Granny can't even bring a pair of scissors on a plane to knit while traveling. Now I have to take my shoes off, because they might be dangerous? What a sad world we are coming to.

In this day and age everyone is a "domestic terrorist". They are probably watching these boards as it is. You approve of guns, you're a terrorist.

It used to be that if someone verbally assaulted someone, then that is just what it was. Now days it is "terroristic threats". We are all terrorists, as the category keeps getting expanded everyday.

With the new hate crime bill passed, they can make whatever determination they want as a hate crime, and deem you a terrorist. You have a military manual in your possession just for informational and survival purposes, then you can be twisted into a terrorist. Yet military manuals have very good information about surviving, but I suppose we ought to abandon that as well?

If you believe the whole Oklahoma city bombing story, then Mcveigh was a "domestic terrorist". Was he driving a military truck? Nope. If that is the case you think LEO's would be pulling over every rental truck, just to be sure.

Anyone seriously think a real "domestic terrorist" is going to carry a military pack......doubt it. They did in Iraq! This is not Iraq and the military and police should well remember that.

Just because a guy is hoofing out of town like everyone else escaping what ever the disaster is does not make that person a terrorist because of the color and material of his pack.

Odds are I will be throwing my pack in the back of my vehicle anyhow, so it matters not what it is made of. If vehicle travel is impossible then if you seriously think the police are going to stop thousands of people in a mass exodus, then you are fooling yourself. Sure in peaceful times, a single guy decked in camo and military equipment is going to raise the alert of the sheep, but in the event of a disaster you as a LEO better be at ground zero, instead of worrying about what I am wearing as I take my family away from a disaster.

Do you realize the absolute complete absurdity of your profiling? The whole "domestic terrorist" pandemic is nothing but a huge load of BS, fueled by the outlandish paranoia of the previous administration. You have a better chance of spotting a faire and a unicorn than a "domestic terrorist". Ok like I said when you need your BOB they will be looking out for people who do not fit in with the rest of the crowd! If you do not think they will use the whole "domestic terrorist" on us then you have your head in the sand!! The DHS has profiled Vets as "domestic terrorist" do you not think if something big happens like an attack a bomb blowing up they will not throw out the "domestic terrorist" word out and tell LEO and military to look for people that stand out? Of course they will, but the real terrorists will not be using surplus military gear, they will be using North Face packs. Plus if they determined that "terrorists" were using North Face Packs then using an Alice pack removes you from the profile.

So with all dues respect, as a trained professional you ought to know better and if you don't then shame on you. I'm sorry you even seriously think that anyone who carries an Alice pack could be a terrorist. Very, very sad. I'm not saying cause you have an ALICE your a terrorist what I'm trying to get through is that if SHTF non weather related say an attack you stand a greater risk if being detained then the guy with a North Face pack. Why you ask? Cause I'm looking for a type who might have just attacked a city/town whatever military items such as your pack are going to make LEO and military look at you and stop you! Think about the jack a$$ we have in the Oval office you do not think he will throw out the whole "domestic terrorist" if there is an attack! All I'm saying is play it smart! Why chance having some LEO or military pull you aside cause you have on what they would say is a "suspicious " pack at the time after an attack that reasonable doubt enough for most judges to say that they had a right to stop you! Now in that pack you have a pistol ammo maybe an AR-15 with a few mags guess what you look like right now!? Don't think pulling out a CCW going to get you off. So why risk it yes it should not happen but you know it will Well if a bomb went off and you don't have any bomb materials then you don't fit the profile. Besides by the time they have figured out what happened and pull all the LEO's in for briefing, then most of those who will leave will have already left. In the event of a catastrophy like that, they won't have the man power or resources to look or stop people until days later. By then most preppers would either have dug in, or will be gone.

I suppose the thought police will be coming soon..






That's fine keep your head where it is! There sure seem to be a lot of people these days that never where in the military or LEO that just know everything about them and how they work its funny!


Big assumption there which you know nothing about.

Besides everything I said is 100% correct. A real terrorist is not going to waltz around the US in military surplus gear. They will use inconspicuous items and try to blend in like the general populace during a peaceful time.

Plus in the event of any disaster (natural or manmade) , the lines of communication will be 100% chaotic for a good while. All first responders will be heading to the disaster area, not out policing the refugees who are exiting the area. After the event, then maybe your statement holds some validity, that is assuming the terrorists were sloppy by using something to make them stand out. But even then it will be days after the event before all the pieces are put together. As for calling out the military, that takes a good amount of time, so you'll most likely be gone before they even arrive.

The only truth to what you said is during a peaceful time where a single guy is walking down the road in military gear who happens to have raised the suspicion of the sheep. I still guarantee you 99% of the time it is just some ordinary guy. Even 99.99% of all the rednecks or even the local militia movements are just patriots who love their country. Even if they are decked out in camo and are anti-govt. They are still not the real terrorists or bad guys.

Let's now head to Iraq and Afghanistan, or even Palestine. Most of the terrorists, insurgents, freedom fighters, or what ever you want to call them, what do they wear? They wear civilian clothes for the most part. It is simple terrorism 101. Look like the flock to hide your illegal actions.

If you buy the 911 story, then what were the hijackers wearing? Military packs? No. Civilian clothes? Yes.

Sorry, real terrorists in the United States (or anywhere) DO NOT go around wearing surplus military packs. With all due respect you need to find a better trained profiler.

The whole point of a BOB is to get out. Not wait until the police and military are in town, then get out. Yes, if you have need to go back into town after the event, dress down, carry a small inconspicuous pack leave your rifle (if the area is patrolled by law enforcement) and be a shadow.

Link Posted: 9/8/2009 3:35:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 3:49:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2009 3:55:53 AM EST by tiberias]
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By raf:
Interesting


very

guys lets step back a second here.

I want you all to honestly try something here. Ok your standing on street corner XYZ ,what do you think when you see-

A- mid 30's male, work slacks, duty boots, northface pack, clean cut, columbia shirt, ball cap with subduded american flag
b- mid 30's guy, bed head for hair, t shirt,well used external framed pack.stained jeans and wore out new balance's or merrels.
c- mid 30's guy, boonie, ICBs or tact boots, Tan tactical or any solid color BDU pant, earth tone short ( either Tshirt or button up) Eagle 3 day ( or any tactical 3 day assualtpack)

all 3 are walking with purpose,......

whos mostly likely to stand out to you as a threat,non threat or who may be a shooter( have weapons on them).

We may not think that what we wear even in daily life projects a "gun" vibe, but it does.
Who buys tactical gear- sorry it aint the crunchy hippies on the AT because 3 day packs are da bomb....it aint yuppy volvo driving suburbanites walking around wearing converse tacticalboots and a HSGI ball cap with moral patches on it.....

that said....any thing earth tone and military look stands out.
EVERY time,,EVERY time, folks hike on the FT ( flordia trail) on the open hikes come in contact with others , looks are given and there has been comments made. If you dont notice that your either NOT doing it like you say you are or your head is in the clouds.
I will say AO has some play in this, asif you live in amilitary townor near a base you can get away with some things , if your not in that AO people notice....and it aint the sheep


Yes what you are saying is true.....BUT.....only during a time of peace.

Once the SHTF, not a soul is going to be concerned about what you are wearing. They are all going to be concerned about saving their butts.

I wear my camo BDU pants all the time on my time off, and in the winter my camo M65 field coat. Where I live camo does not raise an eyebrow. Same when I hunt or go hiking. Never been stopped, reported, or questioned. The color of my pack has never been an issue. Yeah it might make a difference if I go into downtown mid day all decked out in woodland clothing, but this is not what we are talking about.

Point is if you are bugging out, it is most likely in a vehicle, so the kind of pack you have matters not. If all vehicles are down and non functional and the whole world is walking North to escape a danger zone, then there will be thousands of packs of every different color and you will just be another fish in the sea.

Link Posted: 9/8/2009 6:36:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2009 6:40:02 AM EST by Lympago]
Wow here's a lovely little pissing contest. I'm sure you all realize that pretty much everyone here if forced to bugout on foot with whatever pack their wearing, is going to have their rifle with them also. I know I will, because I'm not leaving without it. It's why we all own shtf weapons and I'm sure I'll need it. That weapon in your hand and holster on your hip (or whatever you use to carry) will make quite enough impression of a threat for all to worry about more than what kind and color your pack is. The reality is you'll be threat to anyone who doesn't know you and you'll need to move as concealed and cautiously as possible. I know if I had to move through an area that I knew was heavily populated and had police checkpoints, with active mobile surveillance, I'm going to do my best to avoid it or go through under the cover of darkness. Moving in darkness and sleeping during the day in as safe a position possible hopefully not by myself, taking turns watching out will be my priority in the first place. I hike and camp with my BOB as much as I can and have done it with an Alice too for years. Sure some people look and some people ask if I'm ex/active-military, which I am as a former 82nd Div 11b, but how you carry yourself and act is more important to whether they feel threatened. It depends on what you want out of your pack and how you'll use more to me, as when the time comes you'll need to rely on it.


My threatening BOB rig,

Link Posted: 9/8/2009 6:56:36 AM EST
Yeah it's a evil black pack. You're doomed.
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 7:57:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Yeah it's a evil black pack. You're doomed.



Yep, I figured. I guess I'll have to put the M1A to good use.



Link Posted: 9/8/2009 10:17:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2009 10:35:41 AM EST by raf]
I was talking about a SHTF lets say a bomb going off as a military man not know what branch you are in or what your job was. Who would you stop to have a look at if you where told to stop suspicious looking people coming out of the blast area? The guy with the everyday pack or the guy with a military style pack? What one are you going to look twice at and harder at?


Deleted what appears to be a CoC violation, namely advocating illegal acts. In this instance, I will give the poster the benefit of what sliver of a doubt remains as to his exact meaning. Be advised that such comments could easily entail much more severe sanctions. raf
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 2:00:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By raf:
Interesting


very

guys lets step back a second here.

I want you all to honestly try something here. Ok your standing on street corner XYZ ,what do you think when you see-

A- mid 30's male, work slacks, duty boots, northface pack, clean cut, columbia shirt, ball cap with subduded american flag
b- mid 30's guy, bed head for hair, t shirt,well used external framed pack.stained jeans and wore out new balance's or merrels.
c- mid 30's guy, boonie, ICBs or tact boots, Tan tactical or any solid color BDU pant, earth tone short ( either Tshirt or button up) Eagle 3 day ( or any tactical 3 day assualtpack)

all 3 are walking with purpose,......

whos mostly likely to stand out to you as a threat,non threat or who may be a shooter( have weapons on them).

We may not think that what we wear even in daily life projects a "gun" vibe, but it does.
Who buys tactical gear- sorry it aint the crunchy hippies on the AT because 3 day packs are da bomb....it aint yuppy volvo driving suburbanites walking around wearing converse tacticalboots and a HSGI ball cap with moral patches on it.....

that said....any thing earth tone and military look stands out.
EVERY time,,EVERY time, folks hike on the FT ( flordia trail) on the open hikes come in contact with others , looks are given and there has been comments made. If you dont notice that your either NOT doing it like you say you are or your head is in the clouds.
I will say AO has some play in this, asif you live in amilitary townor near a base you can get away with some things , if your not in that AO people notice....and it aint the sheep


Yes what you are saying is true.....BUT.....only during a time of peace.

Once the SHTF, not a soul is going to be concerned about what you are wearing.



well if we are going to split hairs on what if scenerios, lets play
Over all for most folks wont notice what you wear. But in most areas if you walking down a trail looking like a 5:11 catolog that mated with a kifaru catalog i'll bet you get some looks.....
Now shtf , you are correct some MAY not care what you are wearing or packing.
BUT some may.

I would.

If im at my BOL and i see some guys dressed like A or C they will get an extra looking over and alert will be higher for that simple fact that sally AT hiker doesnt drop 200$ on a glorified school backpack or earth toned tactical pants!

I know what ive seen happen on the FT here...and you dress like A and C you get looks....and comments at times. If you live in an AO that you dont have to worry about it ,cool deal, lucky you.
But if im on that street corner or my BOL and some guy humping a elderstock, wearing 5:11 pants , UA shirt and moral pacth hsgi hat i'll know he is packing something somewhere...and he can be 2 things.....friend or foe......since i cant read minds or tell the future he'll catch my eye untill i feel safe.

YMMV
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 2:35:42 PM EST
soooooo..........what's the differance between a patrol pack and an assault pack..........

this thread simply didn't answer much of my question. i did learn alot though.

since i live on a dirt road between two cattle pastures, i'll have to see what the bovine response is to camo earlier this summer i was out in the back 40 and thought i was about to get raped by a bull, i was wearing a red shirt too............love is a cattle field

2D2C
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 4:39:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2009 4:49:57 PM EST by Lympago]
Originally Posted By 2DARK2C:
soooooo..........what's the differance between a patrol pack and an assault pack..........

this thread simply didn't answer much of my question. i did learn alot though.

since i live on a dirt road between two cattle pastures, i'll have to see what the bovine response is to camo earlier this summer i was out in the back 40 and thought i was about to get raped by a bull, i was wearing a red shirt too............love is a cattle field

2D2C



It's basically size and setup for the different tasks, but it's meaningless. Worry most about what will fit you and your carrying needs when looking for a BOB setup, not what just fits someone else and their needs. Everyone learns what they need more and don't over time, so don't be hard on yourself if you don't find the perfect pack and what to pack in it right off the bat. I don't think there is an actual perfect anything, because you always have to settle somewhere. I know after the years though that I prefer a pack with good pouch and pocket seperation to organize things by task and priority.





Link Posted: 9/8/2009 6:27:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2009 6:30:21 PM EST by Shadow4Golf]
n/m
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 7:07:00 PM EST
I get more "looks" in my biker regalia than I ever do in my 511 pants, BDU's, earth tones or anything else!

The guy who posted about moving at night is spot on, IMHO. That's exactly what I'll do (should I need to BO - which I doubt I'll need to do). Shit! If it's ever that bad, I'll be wearing my whole multi-cam rig: MOLLE pack, armor carrier, AR, P226 and the whole shebang - maybe even my kevlar helmet!

Thank God for NV, too! (I am so glad I made that investment when I did!) It will be my mission to be invisible and the absolute last place I'll be is strolling down some crowded street, road or highway - and I damn sure won't be at the mall; "sticking out"!

The fact is; there is no ideal "look". AO is everything.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 3:31:00 AM EST
And the last few poster have it spot on.

As with any SHTF situation, it is a play by ear and adjust to the environment which gives you the most advantage and security.

It makes sense to not walk downtown in full camo and pack, but on the trail it probably won't matter.

When you do leave will it be on foot or in a vehicle? If in a vehicle, then once again your pack will matter little.

As mentioned above it is far wiser to travel at night, or stay off the beaten path. Walking alone on a two lane highway is going to attract attention regardless of how you are dressed or what you are carrying.

Survival is all about adjusting and adapting. You have to have a plan for just about anything, and a backup for good measure.

Get a pack you feel has the features you need to be organized and efficient, as well as something you feel is comfortable carrying. If you ever do have to leave in mass exodus on foot, it could be a long walk.

If you can't get a military surplus pack, or a tactical pack, plus nothing in beige, camo, OD, or black, then you are pretty much stuck with pink , so I'd pay little attention to color or style and get what does the job you need it to do.....period.

Even get a second smaller pack for times when blending in may be important that might carry a small subset of you BOB.

As you can see there are many, many opinions, and none of us right, other than being right for our own situation.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 6:10:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2009 6:18:01 AM EST by iNuhBaDNayburhood]
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 8:09:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2009 8:47:14 AM EST by madkingchris]
I've been reading these posts, and there is one thing many of you don't seem to realize. WSHF will not happen overnight - we're not going to go to bed one night in peace, and wake up 8 hours later under martial law or some type of dicatorship. Just about any scenario you can plan for will be precipitated by various events. If you're paying attention to them, you will already be at your safe haven long before checkpoints are set up, etc. If you've waited so long that you need to bug out at night, it's too late - some other, wiser survivalist has probably already occupied your safe haven.

As for me, I am going with standard backpacking/camping gear in earth tones. Not only will it serve to provide 72 hours of food, water, & shelter, but I can also use it camping & paddling the boundary waters.

Peace,
Chris
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 2:08:59 PM EST
After reading this thread I think its ironic that the former military and LEO guys are suggesting that a color of a backpack/ bag will get you harrassed/ arrested for domestic terrorism !!!!

Thats whats wrong with the LEOs in this country, thats so old school of thought.... IMO when something happens like the bombing at the Atlanta Olympics, are you suggesting that people with blue schoolbags were not stopped, detained and searched and the ex-military types like myself with an OD ruck were?

Amazing, stereotyping definately has its place in situations, but not seeing the forest due to the trees is very costly.

Where I live we can carry openly w/o being hassled, in 20+ years I have never been hassled over the color or style of my clothes, open carry, including a 7.5" Ruger .44 mag in a shoulder rig outside my coat during deer season at restaurants or gas stations. I would move if I felt the threats that you people are portraying and enacting on duty.... or at least my Company lawyers would have a field day with your supervisors.

Glad to live in a truely FREE STATE !!!
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 2:17:27 PM EST
I'm a current LEO and when I see someone with .mil gear or Maxpedition-type gear, I usually think he is a good guy and perhaps one who would come to my assistance if needed...
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 3:32:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 3:35:19 PM EST by boltcatch]
Originally Posted By 2DARK2C:
hey all,
i'm trying to pick a new pack. intended as primary SHTF type all around . i'm having trouble with the designations.

patrol pack, assault pack, etc.

i'm looking at surplus molle type packs exclusively, is that a mistake? for around $40 i'm i waisting my $?

right now i have a german "mauntan special forces" pack, i think what they are calling them. i paid $10 for it 5 yrs. ago brand new, and besides storage for extra gun gear, it's never been used. it's not very comfortable and not easy to organise.

any help apreciated
2D2C


Assault packs are sort of a 3 day or less thing; good example would be the RAID and COBRA packs from Lightfighter.

Don't bother with surplus MOLLE packs, generally. The issue stuff often is not that great these days and the "patrol" packs and whatnot are not really meant to carry large loads, or carry them for long periods of time.

If cost is a concern, look at the medium and large ALICE packs. Which one you get will be determined by how much you need to carry. These are proven, servicable packs, and you can easily upgrade them later with new/aftermarket shoulder straps or waist belts from places like Tactical Tailor. It is easy to lash extra crap onto the ALICE frame to carry more stuff in a pinch. Before I could afford anything better, I used an ALICE backpacking for years.

I'm assuming you at least want something you can live out of and carry some more gear in if needed, so I would not go smaller than a medium ALICE for your general SHTF pack. You can get the parts separately if it saves you money, just make sure you find someone who knows how to set the thing up (anyone who used one in the military will do). For $40 I'm pretty sure you can score one of those packs.

Now, for those who have more money available, then you can start looking at stuff from Kifaru and Mystery Ranch. You'll be looking at $240-600, but you'll get a top notch piece of gear for a lifetime. Personally, I use Kifaru packs - my SHTF bag is a Zulu, and I keep their large MMR pack around for backpacking and normal use. They offer a number of packs in different sizes and suspensions, and if you have questions they'd be more than willing to talk to you about what sort of pack might fit your needs.

The main differences between the good old ALICE packs and newer stuff like the Kifaru packs is that the newer stuff will typically last longer with really hard use (not hard to fix the ALICE packs, though) and will be a hell of a lot more comfortable.

If you only have $40 to spend and you need a servicable pack, then you don't have time to screw around worrying what it looks like unless it has a freakin' swastika or something on it. Don't worry about military gear.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 6:16:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
I'm a current LEO and when I see someone with .mil gear or Maxpedition-type gear, I usually think he is a good guy and perhaps one who would come to my assistance if needed...


OohRah! Finally a voice of reality. Glad people like you are on the job.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 8:24:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By tiberias:
Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
For $40.00 you can get one of the toughest, most durable packs ever made with the best reputation. A USGI ALICE pack with frame. Can't go wrong with this, you can use it with the frame or ditch the frame for a 3-Day style pack. Everyone should own one....or six.

Not sure about the advice above about not using military gear...... I use it all the time without any negative or extra attention.


+1

I have a large alice with frame and a medium alice with no frame. All my gear is in them and they pack alot.

The military makes some good gear, so why not use it? When the time comes that you really need it, the sheeple will be fearing everything, so don't worry about how it looks.


Perhaps a good pack cover in sheepflage color such as navy blue or other socially acceptable color as to not scare the sheep. Ideally the pack cover should be water proof/resistant, along with reversable color on back side to aid in E&E. Also this will reduce the number of calls of paramilitary looking scary dude to the local authorities.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 4:55:50 PM EST
Protus, We neeed to both spend a week in the others AO. I say this cause we disagree on this issue all the time.

Of your 3 listed there. It looks like (disregarding the agees) Waldo, ACMan, and OPs walking towards you.

Hahaha

Seriously, I assume they all have a gun.

To assume they aren't all armed and a possible threat would be careless.

Or are you talking about them and how they see me? I don't give a shit how they see me. If I'm passing them on a trail during a SHTF I'm already fucking up.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 5:24:44 PM EST
Not to highjack the thread or anything, but, I am tired of worrying about how the sheeple react on a normal day to a military looking pack.

It is a sad day in America, that we let crimes and scums go looking like their drawers cannot stay up, but a military pack, or whatever gets calls.

To back up my rant, Sunday, after church, instead of changing to accomidate my sidearm, I blantantly open carried into wally world, for all the sheeple to see. I got a couple of looks, and people just kept moving, nothing huge.

Now to the post at hand. I picked up 7ea Med Alice Packs, one for each member of the family, for $10, each, and they are in good shape. They did not have decent kidney pads, so I put out another $20 total for those. This is all I can afford and will afford for the time being. I also use a US Marine 3-day digital cammo assault pack as my GHP, and it is build very well and stays in the truck.

Guess what, call the law all day long. I am going to use my packs. I am going to carry, and when the time comes I will carry my AR. I will explain that I have a wife and five kids and will use any means necessary to get home to them, or to keep them as safe as I humanly can. And in peace time, without breaking the laws.

Now if someone has an issue with that, its game on, and I don't care who you are. Pure and Simple.

The time is long overdue to stand for yourself, in a respectful, dignified way, but stop running scared. If it becomes necessary to go beyond dignified, then so be it.

So, I think you should buy whatever pack you can afford, that fits you, that you like, that you will carry, that will do the job that you intend it to do.

Having said that, do your best to apply some of the tips and such that Protos suggests in fitting a pack.

Best Wishes,

StagPower
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 5:31:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By raf:
Interesting


very

guys lets step back a second here.

I want you all to honestly try something here. Ok your standing on street corner XYZ ,what do you think when you see-

A- mid 30's male, work slacks, duty boots, northface pack, clean cut, columbia shirt, ball cap with subduded american flag smart guy w/gun
b- mid 30's guy, bed head for hair, t shirt,well used external framed pack.stained jeans and wore out new balance's or merrels. genius w/gun
c- mid 30's guy, boonie, ICBs or tact boots, Tan tactical or any solid color BDU pant, earth tone short ( either Tshirt or button up) Eagle 3 day ( or any tactical 3 day assualtpack) guy w/gun

all 3 are walking with purpose,......

whos mostly likely to stand out to you as a threat,non threat or who may be a shooter( have weapons on them).

We may not think that what we wear even in daily life projects a "gun" vibe, but it does.
Who buys tactical gear- sorry it aint the crunchy hippies on the AT because 3 day packs are da bomb....it aint yuppy volvo driving suburbanites walking around wearing converse tacticalboots and a HSGI ball cap with moral patches on it.....but I do own a volvo, live in the suburbs and wear Oakley tacboots and buy tac gear...no wait, I'd probably be wearing jeans and a polo shirt

that said....any thing earth tone and military look stands out.
EVERY time,,EVERY time, folks hike on the FT ( flordia trail) on the open hikes come in contact with others , looks are given and there has been comments made. If you dont notice that your either NOT doing it like you say you are or your head is in the clouds.
I will say AO has some play in this, asif you live in amilitary townor near a base you can get away with some things , if your not in that AO people notice....and it aint the sheep


If you really don't want people fixating on your camo/military pack, you can find different colored pack covers...maybe even green or pink if you want to blend in with all the volvo driving suburbanites with morale patches.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 5:59:36 PM EST
Very interesting post....lots of food for thought.




That being said, if it's a true bug out situation for me then the type of pack I'm wearing is of little consequence to any supposed authority figure considering I'm sporting an M4 clone with ACOG, light, laser, etc..
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 1:05:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Ok first of $40 for a pack you will be getting one well used pack for that much. Getting military style pack! Why? Remember cheapest bidder! More impotent is this and I've been trying to get this through to people but most think I'm wrong! You might also but I'm telling you this from a Military, LEO and survivalist point of view.

Military style packs draw attention to you. When I was in Iraq you had anything military style on I was talking to you! As a LEO down in Texas along the border you had a military pack white or non white I found something to stop you for and had a talk with you! Got a 300lbs dope bust by doing that saw three guys in a minivan at the time I saw one seabags in there and these guys where not Marines or Sailors watched them pull out from the gas station pulled them over cause there Lic plate light was out ran the plates got a wanted hit called for backup at the time it was only the border patrol got the three guys out of the minivan found 300lbs of dope a U.S government issued 1911 still said Property of U.S on it a Browning Hi power 9mm, 6 tablets of EX. Just cause I saw that one seabag they had 6 in the van.

Survivalist point I had gone on a hike with a ALICE pack I live in an area where a lot of "Backpackers" come through most of them scummy hippies who have not showed in weeks all look like they have a bong and some dope on them if there not smoking it at that time! So I though I would be ok trying out my new boots and my new pack I'm clean cut short hair still look like a Marine I had on a white underarmor shirt blue jeans and my new Danner boots. I was walking for not more then a hour when I had red and blues flashing behind me I stopped as the officer came out I asked him if he wanted me to keep the pack on or place it on the ground? he told me to keep it on asked for my ID showed it to him. Then asked if there was a problem? He looked at me and asked if I had worked for the county as a Bailiff I said I had he laughed and said they had 10 calls about a man walking with a military style pack on and it looked like he might be up to something!

Now my advice is look like other backpackers I still have the ALICE pack but now I know better then to wear it around! Get a "Sheep backpack" one that people will not notice! I know a lot of sheep packs are bright and I hate it also but Look here and here they are some good ones to look at they may cost more buy they will be worth it.

I call BS on the whole story.....Are you an LEO or Ballif , cause Ballifs dont make stops or run plates etc, you get stopped bya cop IN YOUR HOMETOWN and he maybe recognizes you? and the first thing you say (in post on back packs) is to ask the cop if he wants you to put your pack down? and as an leo if you saw hippies smoking dope wouldnt you arrest them?
either there are several years mixed up in your post or the BS is about you tell me?
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