Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 12/10/2013 6:19:58 PM EDT
If you were limited to 20 foot tall for your antennas, would 10m wavelengths or higher be any good ?
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 6:27:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2013 6:30:33 PM EDT by KB7DX]
A dipole at 20 feet would make a good NVIS antenna on the lower frequencies.
ETA - The higher you go in frequency, the more "lobey" the antenna will become. Example, a dipole cut for 40 meters, hung at 20ft would radiate in a big bubble pattern. The same antenna on 10 meters (with a tuner of course) will pattern like an octopus. Meaning lots of narrow lobes in skewed directions.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 6:33:10 PM EDT
I've worked lots of DX and everywhere in North America on antennas that low, on all HF bands, and still do on some.  My 40. 80. and 160 antennas are no more than 25' high.  Not optimal but it works.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 6:33:49 PM EDT
I have a G5RV that's no more than 20ft in the air and it works down to 40m and gets power out on 80m. Keep in mind you'd need a tuner.

Work with what you can, it will surprise you.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 6:35:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2013 6:39:59 PM EDT by Kekoa]
Hustler 4-Band Vertical Antenna

Just a thought......


BTW, my 10 and 20 meter dipoles are in my attic, about 15 feet above the ground.  I've worked over 120 countries this year.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 6:38:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2013 6:40:38 PM EDT by Mr_Harry]
Jerry Sevick is your friend
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 6:57:08 PM EDT
I had a QSO with Japan on 20 meters, 100 w SSB, with an OCFD (which radiates the same as a dipole) hung at only 15'.  This was a special event station, the antenna hung between a couple of trees.

I've made QSOs with Canada, Mexico (not a big deal from Texas), all over the Carribean, Central and South America, Europe with a 20 m dipole at 20'.  All over the US with a 40 m dipole same height.  From Texas up to CO, MN, WI, OH and all points in between on 75 meters, same 20' height.

Quit worrying about that ideal 1/2 wavelength above the ground thing.  That's never stopped me, and it won't stop you or anyone else.  Hang your dipoles and get on the air.  You will not lack for other stations to talk to.

Link Posted: 12/10/2013 7:08:52 PM EDT
Thanks ARFCOM for the quick responses and info. The more I ask about ham the more it makes me want to get into it.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 7:09:16 PM EDT
I have a 40 m dipole in an inverted V about 15 feet at the center.  Its all I could get up.for years.  I can work all covet the us and worked a ton of DX on it on 10m 2 months ago.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 7:22:02 PM EDT
You may be limited to a 20 foot antenna but are you limited to a 20 foot flagpole? Zerofive has some nice flagpole antennas.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 7:24:27 PM EDT

Is it a HOA restriction in height?

Link Posted: 12/10/2013 7:47:20 PM EDT

Here is an antenna I just put up two weeks ago. Its a home brew 19' flagpole with a Hustler 4-BTV with a 2" PVC pipe painted gray and slid over it. Tuned up real nice and looks great. Yes ... you can see the hat sticking out, but it's better than nothing.





Link Posted: 12/10/2013 8:04:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ScooterInVegas:

Is it a HOA restriction in height?

View Quote

No. That is the height of my tv antenna. Was just getting an idea of what I could do without going higher then that.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 8:29:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2013 8:30:47 PM EDT by aeroworksxp]
Awesome flagpole setup.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 8:48:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2013 9:04:10 PM EDT by SCWolverine]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pauperis:

No. That is the height of my tv antenna. Was just getting an idea of what I could do without going higher then that.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pauperis:
Originally Posted By ScooterInVegas:

Is it a HOA restriction in height?


No. That is the height of my tv antenna. Was just getting an idea of what I could do without going higher then that.


are you talking a Chimney Mount Antenna, Mast Supported or what?

ETA:

there on Left is a 2m Yagi with a 220Mhz J-pole above...just to the Right is my 10m Vertical...the 10m Vertical is less than 20' to the bottom.

it's almost impossible to see, but right above the door is a 4:1 Balun, it's connected on one leg to a ground rod, and 1 75' radial...the other side is connected to a 75' piece of 14awg wire hung in the trees less than 10' above the ground.  Japan is my furthest contact, but my most impressive was AM to AZ with 40 watts and a 5/9 report

going up past the weather-head, I have an Arrow J-pole on an old TV mast


talked all-over the county (on repeaters) with this roll-up J-pole hung on a Cup Hook on the trim of the house (with my HT)
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 12:30:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 12:30:52 AM EDT by K9-Bob]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ScooterInVegas:

Here is an antenna I just put up two weeks ago. Its a home brew 19' flagpole with a Hustler 4-BTV with a 2" PVC pipe painted gray and slid over it. Tuned up real nice and looks great. Yes ... you can see the hat sticking out, but it's better than nothing.


http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/scooterinvegas/IMG_20131127_133607_zpsf065efce.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/scooterinvegas/IMG_20131127_133715_zps3647bae3.jpg
View Quote


That is a sneaky low profile Hustler setup.  

NICE!  
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:18:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:25:48 AM EDT
I have generally used verticals over the years on HF.

Even now I have a 31 foot vertical and have been surprised to get decent reports even on
75 meter SSB and I use it with JT65 on 160 (with well over half the states confirmed on 160).



Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:41:03 AM EDT
A 20 foot vertical works pretty well, that's what I had before I went to the 43-footer. Even on 80M with appropriate tuning I did fine on digital,
and my WSPR beacon made it to Antartica plenty of times.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:01:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pauperis:
If you were limited to 20 foot tall for your antennas, would 10m wavelengths or higher be any good ?
View Quote



I have a wire antenna at 20 feet, and do decently well.  To give you an idea, I was on for a bit this evening and made 10 JT65 contacts.  The following map shows where I was heard, with the numbers representing how many minutes ago my signal was received.  If 20 feet is all you have, roll with it!

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:53:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 6:04:33 PM EDT by sburggsx]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
I have generally used verticals over the years on HF.

Even now I have a 31 foot vertical and have been surprised to get decent reports even on
75 meter SSB and I use it with JT65 on 160 (with well over half the states confirmed on 160).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
I have generally used verticals over the years on HF.

Even now I have a 31 foot vertical and have been surprised to get decent reports even on
75 meter SSB and I use it with JT65 on 160 (with well over half the states confirmed on 160).



Originally Posted By seek2:
A 20 foot vertical works pretty well, that's what I had before I went to the 43-footer. Even on 80M with appropriate tuning I did fine on digital,
and my WSPR beacon made it to Antartica plenty of times.


What kind of radial fields are you both using for these results? Number and lengths?

ETA: radial makes more sense than radio.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:05:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 9:59:14 PM EDT by Mr_Harry]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sburggsx:





What kind of radio fields are you both using for these results? Number and lengths?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sburggsx:
Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
I have generally used verticals over the years on HF.

Even now I have a 31 foot vertical and have been surprised to get decent reports even on
75 meter SSB and I use it with JT65 on 160 (with well over half the states confirmed on 160).



Originally Posted By seek2:
A 20 foot vertical works pretty well, that's what I had before I went to the 43-footer. Even on 80M with appropriate tuning I did fine on digital,
and my WSPR beacon made it to Antartica plenty of times.


What kind of radio fields are you both using for these results? Number and lengths?



I have thirtytwo 16 foot radials,The antenna is an S9v31 with an SG-230 coupler at the base.

Doing it that way you have a low SWR on the feedline resulting in low loss.


Get this Book by Jerry Sevick It's about 50 pages but has good information.


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:30:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sburggsx:
[<snip>
What kind of radial fields are you both using for these results? Number and lengths?
View Quote


I used eight 24-foot radials on the ground. Note that just TWO tuned radials
(e.g. elevated vertical) off the ground will be more efficient than a very large
number of on-ground radials, but the tuning will require a bit of length and then
it's monoband without more tuned radials on different bands. FYI a Buddi Stick is
a single-radial loaded elevated vertical, and it works better by far IMO than the
buddipole does. My 20' was essentially a modified buddistick.

On-ground radials really don't need to be that long. Efficiency goes up with more,
but after about 30 there's diminishing returns.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 11:34:03 PM EDT
Can you get by with 26ft tall antenna? Will anyone really measure it's height?  Butternut verticals work very well but it's 26 ft tall.
Link to HF-6V BUtternut Vertical
Top Top