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7/8/2020 3:01:36 PM
Posted: 1/27/2014 3:33:50 PM EDT
I have been reading a lot in this forum and see some people planning to store for the future and others planning on ways to live off the land, hunt, and fish etc.  Is there a ratio to store vs plan that makes sense?  I guess my point is that some disaster are short term, like Sandy, Katrina etc and in the case of total EOTWAWKI, there is no going back.  So wouldn't it make sense to save a year max of supplies and the rest of your planning around fishing gear, hunting gear, and seeds etc for growing for unlimited planning?  I've actually thought about 6 months easy supplies and the rest of my effort in seeds, ammo etc etc...  Actually cost effective..
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 4:06:04 PM EDT
Personally I think you need to store as much as you can. Once every jerk in the world figures out the help isn't coming, you'll be lucky to find a field mouse. Once every one that thinks they can hunt enough to live hits the woods they will either scare the game away or kill it to near extinction. Learn to garden and store it now. Once things or if things happen, you'll have the resupply figured out for the most part. And you'll have the storage to hold on until you can plant and harvest. Hunt if you can but I wouldn't plan on it. Either way it'll be a cost savings to grow your own, tastes better and you get a good feeling having grown it yourself.
Your mileage may vary but that's been my plan. It's tough and slow.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 4:24:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 4:27:10 PM EDT by wshbrngr]
The big flaw in most of those plans is that unless you are growing things now, EOTW is not the time to learn this skill (farming).
Nor is it a time to learn to hunt, trap or fish.
While it is easy enough to shoot something, it is quite a bit different to properly gut it, clean it and cook it.

Same with people that store wheat, a $59.00 mill and plan to make bread when the time comes.
They will probably starve, again SHTF is not a good time to learn skills.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 4:25:00 PM EDT
It all boils down to what you think is going to happen. People who think a TEOTWAKI is coming will prepare for that. People who think that's unlikely, but other SHTF events might happen prepare for those events.

Tailor your preparations to what you think might happen. My advice is to start with what is most likely - like job loss / loss of income, fire, medical issues, etc - and work your way up (or down, I guess) to TEOTWAKI.

Take frequent breathers.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 5:10:47 PM EDT
My rules is, If you're not surviving the way you're living now, don't plan on it then (e.g. SHTF.)

Conditions, competition, etc will likely only be worse if you're having to "survive." If you're not already supporting yourself
gardening, hunting, etc, it's very unrealistic to think you'll pick up the skills and bring in enough when the time comes.
It makes more sense to develop these things now, and become as self-sufficient as possible without waiting for
something bad to come along and force you to do it. In the meantime, you'll have the benefit of new skills and
savings from them that makes you able to store that much more with your money.

The old adage of train how you fight, fight how you train comes to mind. Maybe updated to
"live the way you would like to survive, survive the way you would like to live."
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 5:57:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By seek2:
My rules is, If you're not surviving the way you're living now, don't plan on it then (e.g. SHTF.)

Conditions, competition, etc will likely only be worse if you're having to "survive." If you're not already supporting yourself
gardening, hunting, etc, it's very unrealistic
to think you'll pick up the skills and bring in enough when the time comes.
It makes more sense to develop these things now, and become as self-sufficient as possible without waiting for
something bad to come along and force you to do it. In the meantime, you'll have the benefit of new skills and
savings from them that makes you able to store that much more with your money.

The old adage of train how you fight, fight how you train comes to mind. Maybe updated to
"live the way you would like to survive, survive the way you would like to live."
View Quote


This.  Either you are doing it now or it won't happen.  To long of a learning curve.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 8:26:53 PM EDT
If you're planning for a longer term transition six months is not enough food storage. What happens if the event happens in September? What will you be able to plant and harvest by April?
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 12:35:51 AM EDT
Others have hit it the nail on the head.  Having food stored beats having to work for your food any day...I've probably got about 3-5 months of various types of food stored (MRE's, dehydrated, and freeze dried foods) and am aiming for a year to two years of supplies.  It is slow going since I usually wait for sales to occur which is not often.

As far as growing food goes, pretty much growing anything has a learning curve to it and is a decent investment of time and labor.  The time to learn how to do that is when you have the luxury of time with respect to dealing with the learning curve.  It has been my goal to get my act together and learn how to grow some veggies...I'd been planning to do this for several years now, but just have not gotten around to it.  Might play around this year by doing a raised bed garden.  

As far as hunting goes, I live on the east coast and am not planning on doing any hunting to support myself.   In any prolonged interruption of services, the game in my give area will pretty much be hunted out of existence very quickly...
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 1:51:55 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By cfcw:


If you're planning for a longer term transition six months is not enough food storage. What happens if the event happens in September? What will you be able to plant and harvest by April?
View Quote




sprouts duh.. lol.



very good point though.



most online have two plans-

1- bug out- which will lead to learning or dying or to a pre stocked bol.but one that isnt producing

2- bug in- same as above for the average guy. still gotta learn while the eat off thier stocks.



then you have the less than 5% who actually do garden/farm/hunt for thier food and along with that also have a large lts food plan.



me i used to be a balance of 1 and 2. due to my location.

not so much now. i garden,,raise chikens,trees..and still store food. not no super survival retreat either and honestly. its all with in anyones means to get started now in some way or fashion. just like anything else ya gotta want it.



 
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 4:29:49 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By protus:


sprouts duh.. lol.

very good point though.

most online have two plans-
1- bug out- which will lead to learning or dying or to a pre stocked bol.but one that isnt producing
2- bug in- same as above for the average guy. still gotta learn while the eat off thier stocks.

then you have the less than 5% who actually do garden/farm/hunt for thier food and along with that also have a large lts food plan.

me i used to be a balance of 1 and 2. due to my location.
not so much now. i garden,,raise chikens,trees..and still store food. not no super survival retreat either and honestly. its all with in anyones means to get started now in some way or fashion. just like anything else ya gotta want it.
 
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Originally Posted By protus:
Originally Posted By cfcw:
If you're planning for a longer term transition six months is not enough food storage. What happens if the event happens in September? What will you be able to plant and harvest by April?


sprouts duh.. lol.

very good point though.

most online have two plans-
1- bug out- which will lead to learning or dying or to a pre stocked bol.but one that isnt producing
2- bug in- same as above for the average guy. still gotta learn while the eat off thier stocks.

then you have the less than 5% who actually do garden/farm/hunt for thier food and along with that also have a large lts food plan.

me i used to be a balance of 1 and 2. due to my location.
not so much now. i garden,,raise chikens,trees..and still store food. not no super survival retreat either and honestly. its all with in anyones means to get started now in some way or fashion. just like anything else ya gotta want it.
 


Bingo!

There are so many fantasy land ASSumptions people comfort themselves with.....when the SHTF ( whatever that means and however one chooses to define it to fit ones desires and preconceptions) I'll become a farmer/hunter/woodland death ninja.

The reality as said is to begin to gain and refine the skills needed to ensure you are fed, watered, sheltered and protected and do it NOW!  This includes physical fitness in addition to the hard skills needed.

Gonna be a tough row to hoe for most. Oh well. All the interweb "commandoing" isn't gonna carry any weight.

Be.Know.Do. are three fundamentals of leadership and they easily translate into preparing for uncertainties.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 4:38:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 4:38:59 AM EDT by gODZOOKIE]
As posted above, the game will be gone.....and quick. Meat will be a luxury. Have a years supply of food along with seed variety and good gardening equipment... good luck
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:35:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:37:43 AM EDT
1929 Stock market crash...Now heralded in history books as the beginning of the Great Depression.

US population back then ... meh 150 million give or take a few.

Later in the 1930s...
Man enters the barbershop and says "Gentlemen this depression is over!"
Others "How do you figure that?"
Man "On my way into town today a rabbit crossed the road and no-one was chasing it."



You can look up documented deer populations over time from the Great Depression until now


Today's US population ... meh 330+ million

OP you might want to rethink that clever "Jeremiah Johnson" plan.  
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:41:12 AM EDT
I grew up growing food, hunting and fishing.  To the person who mentioned with if it happened in Sept, that is my point.  I think having enough food/supplies to hold you to your first harvest could be enough. I think the more you prepare the better, but living off cans and a stock pile is a temporary fix.  The one skill I need to learn is preparing seeds for the next year.  I've always used seeds that were purchased.  

I think everyone needs to realize that this country is huge and there are plenty of natural resources.  Half the population can't survive without a cell phone, let alone grocery stores...  Soccer moms aren't going to start killing all the game in our forests..  The US feeds itself (and many other countries) now, does everyone think cattle/pork/poultry will be wiped out by the zombies??
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:42:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By gODZOOKIE:
As posted above, the game will be gone.....and quick. Meat will be a luxury. Have a years supply of food along with seed variety and good gardening equipment... good luck
View Quote


Poaching during the Great Depression dropped game in some areas to almost extinction levels.

Personally I am only planning short term, about six months. If SHTF goes longer than that, I don't know if I want to be living through it. Cannibalism, etc.

Mormon families try to keep a year of food on hand. And from a couple families I know this has helped them a lot, especially when they were unemployed, a much more likely event than a comet striking the Earth.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:58:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 6:01:21 AM EDT by gODZOOKIE]
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Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
I spent much of my youth on as close to a self sustaining farm as I've ever seen or heard.  What I'm going to tell you is quite profane.  The "Hermit" survival philosophy is myth and a plan for failure.  Unless you have millions and can do a self sustaining eco-system including the staff, you're going to need other people.  Community has to be in your plans.  Its far more complex than store enough food to get a garden in.  

None of that is insurmountable.  That just means you need to plan for it.  Often we've had "what skills do you have" threads mostly with a get into a group concept like a commune but it also serves as a "what do you have to barter" to do well in community.  Keep in mind, knowledge is not going to die with any event and unskilled labor just like it is today and always will be, will be the bottom of the barter list.  Most of addressing this really is planning and not that much gear so not as fun or discussed as often unless you count gold and silver threads.  

What I can tell you is real independence does not come from being away from people.  When your child is about to die, you'll climb heaven and Earth to try to save them looking for a doctor or hospital and pride be damned.  What it comes from is a total disregard of the entire concept "They'll take care of me." and acceptance nothing in life is free.  

To the heart of your topic, hunting and fishing are augments to your diet on a self sustaining farm.  Its something even in best of times, you can't count on as being 100% reliable or consistent and a mid-evil diet of bread, beans, and beer gets you a mid-evil lifespan and nobody wants that for their children.  What this means is any long term plan should include not only what can be self sustainable but what can bring revenue from others.  Traditional farming that's more than one needs, etc.  

Tj
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How true. Wasn't there a link someone posted somewhere here, about a story of one mans city that was completely isolated from the outside world for over a year during the Bosnian War?
He said those alone were the first to perish, as they were easy targets. Didn't matter at all that those individuals were well armed, it simply made them even more a target.
The one's that survived were the ones with large families and or had large groups of friends to depend on. ETA- so I should have included .."and a big family" in my original response
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:59:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By gODZOOKIE:


How true. Wasn't there a link someone posted somewhere here, of one mans city that was completely isolated from the outside world for over a year during the Bosnian War?
He said those alone were the first to perish, as they were easy targets. Didn't matter at all that those individuals were well armed, it simply made them even more a target.
The one's that survived were the ones with large families and or had large groups of friends to depend on.
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Originally Posted By gODZOOKIE:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
I spent much of my youth on as close to a self sustaining farm as I've ever seen or heard.  What I'm going to tell you is quite profane.  The "Hermit" survival philosophy is myth and a plan for failure.  Unless you have millions and can do a self sustaining eco-system including the staff, you're going to need other people.  Community has to be in your plans.  Its far more complex than store enough food to get a garden in.  

None of that is insurmountable.  That just means you need to plan for it.  Often we've had "what skills do you have" threads mostly with a get into a group concept like a commune but it also serves as a "what do you have to barter" to do well in community.  Keep in mind, knowledge is not going to die with any event and unskilled labor just like it is today and always will be, will be the bottom of the barter list.  Most of addressing this really is planning and not that much gear so not as fun or discussed as often unless you count gold and silver threads.  

What I can tell you is real independence does not come from being away from people.  When your child is about to die, you'll climb heaven and Earth to try to save them looking for a doctor or hospital and pride be damned.  What it comes from is a total disregard of the entire concept "They'll take care of me." and acceptance nothing in life is free.  

To the heart of your topic, hunting and fishing are augments to your diet on a self sustaining farm.  Its something even in best of times, you can't count on as being 100% reliable or consistent and a mid-evil diet of bread, beans, and beer gets you a mid-evil lifespan and nobody wants that for their children.  What this means is any long term plan should include not only what can be self sustainable but what can bring revenue from others.  Traditional farming that's more than one needs, etc.  

Tj


How true. Wasn't there a link someone posted somewhere here, of one mans city that was completely isolated from the outside world for over a year during the Bosnian War?
He said those alone were the first to perish, as they were easy targets. Didn't matter at all that those individuals were well armed, it simply made them even more a target.
The one's that survived were the ones with large families and or had large groups of friends to depend on.


In a word. Tribe.

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