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Posted: 8/26/2015 6:35:44 PM EST
I'm looking to purchase some sutures for my BOB and want to have an assortment of a few of each 1/0 2/0 3/0 4/0 5/0 6/0

I'm weary about purchasing off of Ebay as they may expire soon.

I've done a little googling but haven't come up with much. Can someone point me in the right direction?

I'm not looking for a kit or anything of the like just want to purchase some individual sutures.

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 7:14:00 PM EST
PM sent to you Hitman. I think I can help you out.
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 7:28:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 10:59:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2015 11:02:29 PM EST by luvmyglock]
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
stapler kit. easier to use especially on yourself.

sutures and skin closures are great but they do require training. not every wound should be sutured in the field. sometimes dressing and healing are a better option with less risk.
View Quote
What he said. I think you can buy skin staplers on Amazon too..yep like $11.00 for the stapler and a staple remover...


I would know about staplers being easier to use on yourself in the field...I gave myself a single suture on my left thumb..one handed. Wished I had a stapler
Link Posted: 8/26/2015 11:32:37 PM EST
Chinook Medical is my go-to place for medical supplies for my BoB and the like. Here's a link to their page that contains their sutures.

Chinook Medical
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 8:28:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
stapler kit. easier to use especially on yourself.

sutures and skin closures are great but they do require training. not every wound should be sutured in the field. sometimes dressing and healing are a better option with less risk.
View Quote


Staples = Yes

As said here, sometimes it is better to not close the wound. If you choose to close the wound you better be damn sure you have cleaned it well. You seal in debris or whatever you are more than likely going to get an infection, then you may be in a world of shit. Wound cleansing should be the first skill you learn how to do, then learn how to close a wound.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 9:29:01 AM EST
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 9:38:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.
View Quote


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 9:49:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 9:51:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.
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Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.



I can promise you that first world doctors are using equipment that has been expired for years in third world countries. My wife sees thousands of dollars in perfectly good equipment leave the hospital regularly to Doctors Without Borders. Even pacemakers that are expired in this country are perfectly acceptable in other countries.

How much money do pharmaceutical companies spend on lobbyists each year? I know I would love to be able to role 100% of my inventory over constantly.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 9:58:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 10:15:00 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:


it has much less to do with pharmacy companies and much more to do with risk management and liability for the companies and hospitals.

image grandma get an infection for sutures after surgery. family sues hospital, suture manufacturer, doctor and everyone else involved. expiration date reduced liability for the company and hospital if they were stored properly and in date as they can show the product likely was sterile when used.

this stuff is not about medical suppliers making money. it's about companies reducing risk with litigation.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.



I can promise you that first world doctors are using equipment that has been expired for years in third world countries. My wife sees thousands of dollars in perfectly good equipment leave the hospital regularly to Doctors Without Borders. Even pacemakers that are expired in this country are perfectly acceptable in other countries.

How much money do pharmaceutical companies spend on lobbyists each year? I know I would love to be able to role 100% of my inventory over constantly.


it has much less to do with pharmacy companies and much more to do with risk management and liability for the companies and hospitals.

image grandma get an infection for sutures after surgery. family sues hospital, suture manufacturer, doctor and everyone else involved. expiration date reduced liability for the company and hospital if they were stored properly and in date as they can show the product likely was sterile when used.

this stuff is not about medical suppliers making money. it's about companies reducing risk with litigation.


I agree with you that this is why hospitals throw equipment away. I'm saying that the expiration date printed on the product is ridiculously premature.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 10:24:33 AM EST
Unless your trained on wound care, treatment and then post suture care and removal it's a very bad idea. Unless all the others are met you can easily cause more harm and life threatening infection. Get training before getting the tool. And training isn't some 1 day "tactical medic course". I'm a career firefighter/paramedic with many, many(did I say many?) Course and certs under my belt and more then a decade of experience. Even though I've been trained on it, I don't include any in my stash because the conditions that would require "I do it" rather then go to the ER leaves me other viable options that are faster and actually less risky for the post time. And que the guy who's gonna now chime in with his talk about closing a arterial artery on himself while holding his AR and wearing his plate carrier all because that's how he was "trained" in that tacticool course
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 10:39:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 8:50:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.


he is correct..case in point. I was reviewing my preps and discovered my skin staplers package seal had de-laminated and was no longer sterile. (Oasis brand made in China) .and this was stored under pretty optimal conditions Although "sterility" is much overrated especially in terms of field medicine, wound irrigation and pre suturing site preparation are probably more important in preventing post op infection. Also suturing skills and techniques are not something you can just look at a video of and do, they defiantly take practice and human tissue is surprisingly resilient.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 9:18:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 9:58:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:



this. that is a guarantee of sterility during proper storage. nothing more.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.



this. that is a guarantee of sterility during proper storage. nothing more.



Speaking of sterility, you better have some drapes if you're going to suture or you're just dragging that suture through some nastiness and right into your skin. Another plus for staplers. Realizing that staplers are much more bulky and heavy.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 10:04:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:


and you really can't do them one handed from my limited experience
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By MrBear80229:
Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.


he is correct..case in point. I was reviewing my preps and discovered my skin staplers package seal had de-laminated and was no longer sterile. (Oasis brand made in China) .and this was stored under pretty optimal conditions Although "sterility" is much overrated especially in terms of field medicine, wound irrigation and pre suturing site preparation are probably more important in preventing post op infection. Also suturing skills and techniques are not something you can just look at a video of and do, they defiantly take practice and human tissue is surprisingly resilient.


and you really can't do them one handed from my limited experience


You can but it's tricky and takes practice. The reason I know is that I'm in a small invention group who specializes in surgical items. We were developing a device where approximating two points on tissue that were farther apart than a simple laceration was desired. One of our DOE was using a skin stapler, partially deploying the staple, and hooking one point, bringing it to within proximity of the other point and finishing the staple squeeze.

Can't say I'd recommend the practice unless there's no other recourse.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 10:39:38 AM EST
This link to stapler use might help.

stapler use
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 10:47:00 AM EST
Just in case you were wondering, suturing most wounds is not a sterile procedure anyway. Most of the time its "clean". Having sutured lots o people, critters etc sometimes in barnyard conditions its wound prep that makes the most difference. clean it out and do a proper closure if indicated and watch it afterwards and your ok. ymmv. in a true shtf situation meticulous wound care not suturing is whats going to save you from dying from an infection.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:52:38 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ERNURSE:
Just in case you were wondering, suturing most wounds is not a sterile procedure anyway. Most of the time its "clean". Having sutured lots o people, critters etc sometimes in barnyard conditions its wound prep that makes the most difference. clean it out and do a proper closure if indicated and watch it afterwards and your ok. ymmv. in a true shtf situation meticulous wound care not suturing is whats going to save you from dying from an infection.
View Quote


Yep but that's hard for a 6 year old to understand when you're scrubbing the hell out of his boo boo.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 12:51:33 PM EST
So I'm up in the mountains hunting elk when the balloon goes up. The world goes to hell, cars aren't running, no one has power and within 20 minutes rabid gangs of communist, black, tattooed, biker gang FEMA types are looting burning and enslaving. No problem, I've prepared for this situation. Me and the two guys I'm with just have to walk to our bug out location. We figure it's 1000 miles and we can make it in around a month, 32 days if we get snow, bounding overwatch the whole way. Because we are high speed-low drag ass-kickers and this is the event we've been waiting for.

Two days in I'm out foraging for food and find myself surrounded by bad guys, stupid because they are easy to spot with their High Points and always chanting "black lives matter". There has to be a couple dozen of them. No problem, I brought the 50 round drum for my elk rifle, and everyone knows the bad guys can't shoot for crap. I mow them down left and right, the last guy is charging me with a rusty machete when the drum runs dry. I grab my SOG Narwhal Puppy special edition and drive it into his neck.

He got a shot in though and cut my leg off at the knee. Lucky for me, if it were an inch higher he would have circumcised me.

My buddies show up shortly thereafter, having heard the shooting. Thank God one is a doctor and gets the bleeding stopped. I tell them to cut off a limb and jamb it into the stub and find me a crutch and I'll limp home. "No way" says the doctor, "I can reattach your leg and you'll be walking in no time". The guy is a veterinarian, I saw him sew the head back onto a farmers best laying hen once, bizarre combine accident, the chicken lived a couple of years. So yeah, lets do this.

The guys set up a make shift field hospital and start boiling water and donning gloves. The lower leg goes into the boiling water to sterilize it. Then he pours the boiling water on my leg to clean it up too. They give me a strip of raw elk's hide to bite down on. One guy holds the leg in place, the other grabs a packet of sutures, I notice with some satisfaction that the sutures haven't yet expired.


Now, how long after the sutures are opened do they remain sterile?
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 12:56:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 1:49:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
what i really want to know is if the fema biker guy had cut the tip off could he have sewn that back on?
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Nah, probably just cauterize it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 1:52:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.
View Quote

I have had old one break easy when tying knots.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 4:12:36 PM EST
as soon as you open them and touch them they are no longer sterile.......again they don't need to be sterile unless your doing surgery inside someone....which you aint gonna do once shtf....
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 4:22:59 PM EST
+1 for staples. Butterfly's and Dermabond with proper cleaning can work wonders.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 10:47:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2015 11:41:36 PM EST by SharnPenndroen]
Originally Posted By Hitman9921:
I'm looking to purchase some sutures for my BOB and want to have an assortment of a few of each 1/0 2/0 3/0 4/0 5/0 6/0

I'm weary about purchasing off of Ebay as they may expire soon.

I've done a little googling but haven't come up with much. Can someone point me in the right direction?

I'm not looking for a kit or anything of the like just want to purchase some individual sutures.

Thanks in advance.
View Quote


There isn't enough difference between those different sizes to matter. Like between 3-0 and 4-0 is personal preference. The ER I used to work in mostly used 3-0. In my office I only keep 4-0. It suits all my needs. I've used 6-0 on an ear lobe repair when working with a plastic surgeon, but for my purposes I don't need anything that fine. Bigger stuff like the 1-0 is harder to get knots to stay.

As TBS said though, suturing is a skill you would need to learn. I have suture but it is mainly for me to use on others. A skin stapler is going to be faster and require less training. If I am cut some where I can only get one hand to, then I am stapling.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 11:20:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:


You can but it's tricky and takes practice. The reason I know is that I'm in a small invention group who specializes in surgical items. We were developing a device where approximating two points on tissue that were farther apart than a simple laceration was desired. One of our DOE was using a skin stapler, partially deploying the staple, and hooking one point, bringing it to within proximity of the other point and finishing the staple squeeze.

Can't say I'd recommend the practice unless there's no other recourse.
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Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By MrBear80229:
Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.


he is correct..case in point. I was reviewing my preps and discovered my skin staplers package seal had de-laminated and was no longer sterile. (Oasis brand made in China) .and this was stored under pretty optimal conditions Although "sterility" is much overrated especially in terms of field medicine, wound irrigation and pre suturing site preparation are probably more important in preventing post op infection. Also suturing skills and techniques are not something you can just look at a video of and do, they defiantly take practice and human tissue is surprisingly resilient.


and you really can't do them one handed from my limited experience


You can but it's tricky and takes practice. The reason I know is that I'm in a small invention group who specializes in surgical items. We were developing a device where approximating two points on tissue that were farther apart than a simple laceration was desired. One of our DOE was using a skin stapler, partially deploying the staple, and hooking one point, bringing it to within proximity of the other point and finishing the staple squeeze.

Can't say I'd recommend the practice unless there's no other recourse.

What I'm wondering is how the hell you'd tie off a knot one handed.

I've only sewn up pacemaker and port pockets, so my stitching skills are limited to multiple layer uninterrupted running sutures.

But even with one or two layers of 2-0 Vicryl in the deep tissue followed by a layer of 4-0 Vicryl under the surface layer, we still follow up with Derma bond and Steri Strips.

Like others have pointed out, suturing is a skill to be learned and practiced. I've got tons of sutures at home but I'd never attempt to try it on myself or someone else. I'm pretty confident I can make a pressure dressing that would suffice til they got to the ED.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:08:51 AM EST
I was talking about staplers. Suturing with one hand would be a challenge.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 3:37:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2015 3:37:52 PM EST by astrocreep96]
Originally Posted By Hitman9921:
I'm looking to purchase some sutures for my BOB and want to have an assortment of a few of each 1/0 2/0 3/0 4/0 5/0 6/0

I'm weary about purchasing off of Ebay as they may expire soon.

I've done a little googling but haven't come up with much. Can someone point me in the right direction?

I'm not looking for a kit or anything of the like just want to purchase some individual sutures.

Thanks in advance.
View Quote


A few ideas to consider:

Get training on how, why and when to suture. There is nothing in the field that you should be closing with 1-0 suture of any type, and there's nothing you need to close with suture smaller than 4-0.

If your going to maintain a few sutures for a disaster situation, get a few 3-0 nylons from amazon on a reverse cutting needle and don't worry about the field repair you're going to attempt being anywhere near sterile.

And to reiterate what others are saying - get a stapler. It's easier and faster.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 5:27:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.
View Quote




There ya go...


Link Posted: 8/29/2015 5:29:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:


it has much less to do with pharmacy companies and much more to do with risk management and liability for the companies and hospitals.

image grandma get an infection for sutures after surgery. family sues hospital, suture manufacturer, doctor and everyone else involved. expiration date reduced liability for the company and hospital if they were stored properly and in date as they can show the product likely was sterile when used.

this stuff is not about medical suppliers making money. it's about companies reducing risk with litigation.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Expiration dates on sutures are a joke. Unless they are the dissolving kind, as long as the pack is sealed you are fine. As with most medical equipment in the USA expiration dates are put on things to insure the pharma companies sales remain strong.


I was told by one of my suppliers that expiration dates on "durable medical supplies" is more to do with how well the packaging can hold up, and guarantee sterility.



I can promise you that first world doctors are using equipment that has been expired for years in third world countries. My wife sees thousands of dollars in perfectly good equipment leave the hospital regularly to Doctors Without Borders. Even pacemakers that are expired in this country are perfectly acceptable in other countries.

How much money do pharmaceutical companies spend on lobbyists each year? I know I would love to be able to role 100% of my inventory over constantly.


it has much less to do with pharmacy companies and much more to do with risk management and liability for the companies and hospitals.

image grandma get an infection for sutures after surgery. family sues hospital, suture manufacturer, doctor and everyone else involved. expiration date reduced liability for the company and hospital if they were stored properly and in date as they can show the product likely was sterile when used.

this stuff is not about medical suppliers making money. it's about companies reducing risk with litigation.




Well, it's about this too...

If the package has an expiry date, then better observe it in commercial use, or else!



Link Posted: 8/30/2015 8:35:33 PM EST
Thanks for all the comments.

Stapler is a no go due to bulk and weight in the BOB.

I will be getting training on proper use from the appropriate individuals

As far as wound prep / sterilization I have those sorts of things in my BOB as well.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 10:26:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2015 10:28:31 PM EST by juslearnin]
For emergency use 4/0 nylon and vicryl is really all you need.

In my practice, I would say 3/0, 4/0 and 5/0 nylon as well as 3/0 and 4/0 vicryl would cover 99.9 % of what I do. That is basically all I have in my first aid kit.

I occasionally use some 5/0 chromic, but it is not very frequent, and chromic actually will decay and become useless over time.

I rarely use staples, but they are simple and fast as well.

If you use a staple gun, you must have a staple remover as well.

Other than securing chest tubes, I have never used 0 or 2/0.

6/0 is incredibly small, and unless you are a plastic surgeon, isn't worth the time. I use it maybe once or twice a year.



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