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Posted: 10/19/2010 5:44:16 PM EDT
This isn't overly serious,

If you had all your supplies squared away (food water meds etc) and were looking at getting some rifles to hand out to your relitives and extended relitives...you know the ones who all think your a bit strange for having guns and a couple of cases of water for just incase.
For the purposes of this discussion lets say your going to buy 10-15 sks rifles a bunch of ammo and clips for them, to hand out to if needed, would you go ahead and add a cheap but reliable/robust red dot optic to the "hand out package"

I've just been thinking, while everyone says the sks is one of the best hand out weapons you can buy, which is true...if your giving it to someone who doesn't shoot much you might aswell have armed them with a gun that doesn't have sights.

What do y'all think?
Link Posted: 10/19/2010 6:00:36 PM EDT
Hell no!

If they don't possess basic marksmanship/weapon handling skills, then a) an optic isn't going to help them much, b) they probably don't even need to handle the gun, and c) my money could go toward additional supplies for my family.
Link Posted: 10/19/2010 6:19:10 PM EDT
This  question always raises the same cut and paste shitstorm.  

Taking the question for what you've put into it, and assuming you've already got your food warehouse stocked and your bunkhouse furnished, your walls up, and your schoolhouse well provisioned.

The peasant troops of many communist insurgencies have been managed to kill thousands of people with minimal training using the factory sights on those things.  Which, by the by, are a pretty close match for most of the earlier sights you'll find on the classic bolt and lever guns, which have been taking game and killing people for going on two hundred years.

If you're passing out firearms to untrained people, you're better off not trying to teach them long range marksmanship with all the calculations that entails.  Concentrate on teaching them the battery of arms and using the iron sights at reasonable ranges.  After that, if any of them show any particular aptitude, you can skip your ass over to the gun safe and unlimber some glass for them.

It's easy to get caught up in the high tech world of modern warfare and forget that riflery, at it's core, ain't that hard.  

Here's a thought.  If you're planning on handing out rifles, invest in the time and minimal cash and become an Appleseed instructor.  That way it won't be an issue.
Link Posted: 10/19/2010 7:00:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2010 7:02:26 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]
If you have enough family around to need 15 rifles as handouts, I will bet you a BUCK you do NOT have enough food, water, toiletries, bedding, shelter and miscellaneous supplies for all 15 of them.

If you think they are going to show up on your doorstep and and will be satisfied when you hand them a rifle, you are sadly mistaken.



Personally, I have no trouble with hand outs, because by the time you get around to distributing weapons, the SHIT will have hit the fan.
Link Posted: 10/19/2010 7:30:54 PM EDT
I'm handin out pointy sticks and directions away from my place....not gonna arm someone who didnt see the warnings, didnt prepare for disruption or too stupid to not arm themselves for
a variety of reasons..

besides, you give a rifle to someone, who realizes you have Shelter, food, clean water, ammo or MORE GUNS to Steal.. is liable to shoot you in the head 10 days down the road..

Link Posted: 10/19/2010 7:38:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
If you have enough family around to need 15 rifles as handouts, I will bet you a BUCK you do NOT have enough food, water, toiletries, bedding, shelter and miscellaneous supplies for all 15 of them.

If you think they are going to show up on your doorstep and and will be satisfied when you hand them a rifle, you are sadly mistaken.



Personally, I have no trouble with hand outs, because by the time you get around to distributing weapons, the SHIT will have hit the fan.


lets pretend im an ecentric billionaire then who has all those things for the purpose of having a discussion on an unrealistic scenario.

As you note by the time you get to issuing weapons the shit will have really hit the fan and you may not have time to even provide basic instructions on how to aim with the rifle. Which is why I was curious as to whether or not it would be a good idea to stick a cheap red dot on and have them sighted in, in advance. this means you would only need to tell them to put the dot on the target and shoot.

also two is one, one is none...
Link Posted: 10/19/2010 10:14:01 PM EDT
1: I rest my case.

2: If you don't have time to train them rudimentary sighting, the red dot won't be worth shit either.  You can teach an illiterate peasant how to use iron sights in about twenty minutes if he's slow.  Now, there are a whole bunch more things to worry about than sight picture, but that's what we're addressing here, right?

If you have zero time, it's enemy at the gates, etc... why are you handing out rifles instead of shotguns?
Link Posted: 10/20/2010 1:41:41 AM EDT
Nope.  I'll take the money and go on a nice vacation without neighbors, relatives, or friends.  Those three groups may think I'm a little nuts, but not because I prep.  I don't talk about it.  We prep for our survival.  If I lose my job, I'm not inviting the three groups over for a party to  eat my prep food to show them that we will be ok..  The three groups can prepare or starve.  

On another level, I like a rack of identical guns and plenty of ammo.  That would make me feel good.  


Laryisgary–– Welcome to the boards!  and  keep the ideas coming.  


Link Posted: 10/21/2010 5:28:07 PM EDT
Anyone competent and responsible enough to carry a rifle already owns one. Will I be arming everyone at the door? No way in hell. I do, however, have a few extra guns for closely trusted individuals should their weapon go down or get taken (stolen, confiscated, etc). I didn't buy them specifically for that purpose, but like everyone on here, I like to buy guns.

Take that money you were going to spend on a bunch of extra rifles for SHTF and put it towards long-term food stores. My preference is Mountain House. I guarentee they'll be begging for food long before they'll be begging for a rifle.
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 7:15:21 PM EDT
What about handing out handguns instead of rifles? Unless your talking mad max, or zombies I don't think people will be walking around with rifles (at least where I live).
Most of the time I carry a Glock 26, and a Kahr p380, which I could hand off to my wife who has some experience handling firearms, but is not willing to carry
her own gun. Of course this would be more for a active shooter situation when we are away from our home.

Take a few minutes to read Ferfal blog, it has really changed the way I look at preparing for disasters.
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008/10/thoughts-on-urban-survival-2005.html
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 7:38:44 PM EDT
I keep a few extra rifles for just this purpose.  I train those who need them NOW, not later.  At the moment, there are reasons they cannot afford these rifles.  (Generally ARs of some sort, but an AK and SKS as well)  If they don't like guns, they will never get a rifle from me.

I keep extra rifles, not pistols personally.  If there can be danger, I want a rifle... if it hasn't hit the fan, then what the previous poster said about pistols is dead on.  You don't get to open carry rifles (well, check your laws lol) because the power went out for a day.
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 4:27:45 AM EDT
I would not buy extra rifles just for this purpose.

Anyone that I would want to come over in a SHTF situation already has their own gun or enough guns to arm themselves and their SO.  The only reason why I would have to arm them would be if they are caught away from home when the S actually HTF.  In that case, I would have enough for everyone.  However, some people would be using some of my .22's but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Everyone in my "group" may not own a gun of their own but they know how to shoot.

For me, the best scenario would be to bug out to my parent's place.  My dad has quite a bit more guns than I do.  He could outfit our group 10x over if he wanted to.  Ammo, on the other hand, would be the limiting factor.


TLDR - Don't buy rifles for everyone.  Stock more supplies.
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 6:09:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2010 6:10:01 AM EDT by monkeyman]
I wouldn't waste my time and money on guns and ammo for others. When SHTF you won't have time to train them and even if you did they are likely not to be much help anyway. You won't turn people into warriors overnight.
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 10:20:15 PM EDT
Sorry, no.


Extended family are just a little too far removed for me to throw a weapon. If they showed up with a 3 day supply of pocket lint and it's bad enough you are handing out rifles, it won't be long before you are either outvoted or shot. Extended family will do what they have to do for their close family, same as you would.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 8:30:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Sorry, no.


Extended family are just a little too far removed for me to throw a weapon. If they showed up with a 3 day supply of pocket lint and it's bad enough you are handing out rifles, it won't be long before you are either outvoted or shot. Extended family will do what they have to do for their close family, same as you would.


Yep... agree on that. There are even some in my immediate family I wouldn't trust with a gun in a stressful situation.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 11:19:16 AM EDT
My toughts, why bother buying $300 SKSes for handouts when you could buy 3 or 4 times as many Mosins for the same price?  That being said, will I be buying Mosins to hand out, NO.  I will be buying Mosins because  would like to collect them.  If push came to shove, I could hand them out.  As to the Iron sights vs Red dot, like others have said it is not very hard to learn to shoot with iron sights.  Granted it is easier to shoot with a red dot, but that will only help you for the first Mag or so before your Zero is ruined because of the recoil (and thats if the recoil dosnt break the sight outright).  Those $30 red dots are really only made for Airsoft and 22s.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 11:21:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 11:49:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf:
I have grave reservations about handing out any weapons to those that are entirely untrained in their use–– not to mention basic marksmanship, those that I cannot really trust to not shoot me with them, or those so ill-prepared as to need them.  It is also worth thinking about if one of them was captured and interrogated.  You now have a severe OPSEC problem.

Handing out firearms has a good many consequences, some of them unintended.  The point raised above about becoming an Appleseed Instructor, or even attending an Appleseed class is well worth thinking about.


Signed up for November.

My seven year old daughter want to go.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 12:34:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 9:29:04 AM EDT
Taking the question for what you've put into it, and assuming you've already got your food warehouse stocked and your bunkhouse furnished, your walls up, and your schoolhouse well provisioned.

The peasant troops of many communist insurgencies have been managed to kill thousands of people with minimal training using the factory sights on those things. Which, by the by, are a pretty close match for most of the earlier sights you'll find on the classic bolt and lever guns, which have been taking game and killing people for going on two hundred years.

If you're passing out firearms to untrained people, you're better off not trying to teach them long range marksmanship with all the calculations that entails. Concentrate on teaching them the battery of arms and using the iron sights at reasonable ranges. After that, if any of them show any particular aptitude, you can skip your ass over to the gun safe and unlimber some glass for them.

It's easy to get caught up in the high tech world of modern warfare and forget that riflery, at it's core, ain't that hard.

Here's a thought. If you're planning on handing out rifles, invest in the time and minimal cash and become an Appleseed instructor. That way it won't be an issue.


This is true. Besides, you can't be awake 24 hours a day so you will need to trust someone.

RS
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 12:39:35 PM EDT
I vote against handing firearms over to people that you don't know can be trusted and have no firearms skills.

While it is true that the basics of marksmanship and manual of arms can be learned pretty quickly, the safety stuff that has to go along with that is important as well. In total, its a lot more than the 20 minutes one poster opined, but a day ought to cover it.

So, if they can be trusted, and they have the skills or can be trained, the answer is that they might get a spare gun I had laying around. But, someone who is more dangerous to me than to some potential attacker is not going to be armed by me.

Link Posted: 10/27/2010 6:01:39 AM EDT
Now that you have 10 or 15 armed people in your house and assuming they can opperate the rifles you have handed them are you now going to teach them small unit tactics?  People who don't have to work for something will treat it like an intitlement. That will go for your food,fuel,water,shelter  as well as your weapons. Finally 2 or 3 high speed types will over any run SKS armed rable.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 11:16:34 AM EDT
I'm not giving anything beyond neighborly advice to someone who didn't prepare for themselves. Why would I give an unprepared person a gun that they might in turn shoot me with to steal my preps. I'll help someone but helping has its limits.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 11:21:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2010 11:21:16 AM EDT by BKC1869]
Oops. Double Tap.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 2:34:34 PM EDT
Theres only so far you can stretch your own expenses to take care of others. Outfitting handout long guns with red dots would be the least of my concerns.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 4:28:10 PM EDT
I would prefer to put money into something like a Mosin to hand out to someone who knew how to shoot, than spend 2x as much on an SKS for someone who couldn't shoot... though the non-shooter would no doubt be more effective with the SKS than the Mosin, for at least 10 rounds or so.  

A case of sighted-in and well oiled Mosins will go a long, long way.

There is no such thing as a "cheap but reliable/robust red dot" unless you get a good one at fire sale prices.  Period.  Full stop.  For a firearm that is meant for fighting and fighting only, you'd just be wasting money.
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