Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 1/26/2011 6:15:03 PM EDT
Which is better, the black or the white? Why?
How does the air valve work? Do I need a special pump for them?
I take a size 13, do they run big? How big?
How can I tell if it is USGI or a knock off?
Where is a good place to get them?

Anything else I should know about them?
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 6:26:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2011 6:26:54 PM EDT by 50-140]
White are better, they are colder rated.
The air valve is reminiscent of non pressurized aircraft. The valve when open prevented pressure from building up in the inner lining and separating it from the rubber outer boot. No specialized pump is needed.
Nowadays, the best thing to do with the valve is to twist it open, put some shoe goop or some other sealer into the valve. The reason is that if left open, then exposed to water, snow, etc, moisture can enter and destroy the inner lining.
The sizes are pretty right on. I wear the same size bunnies as I do La Crosse boots.
Where to get them can be problematic depending on where you are. The best places to find bunnies in and around Anchorage area are pawn shops, army navy supply stores.
They aren't made anymore so they are getting harder to find, and do command a premium price.

Hope this answers some of your questions.
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:23:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2011 11:09:09 PM EDT by Any-Cal]
The black ones are considered a -20ish, the white ones are -50ish. The white ones have an extra layer of insulation in them.

There is a special milsurp wool sock for them that is very long, and is designed to be folded down over the top of the boot so it doesn't sag in them.

The black ones are considerably smaller than the white ones, and lighter as well. A size 8 white one is bigger than a size 10 black one. ETA- I am referring to the outside, overall size of the boot, not the general trend to run large or small according to size that is mentioned later.

Open the valve, put the boots in the cold, then close it. Part of what the boots do is expand when you heat the air between the layers, and it helps make them warmer. If you leave the valve open you defeat that feature. Some people blow air into them through the valve, but that isn't really what it is for.

Not all of them have the valve, it doesn't really matter if they do or not.

You can buy them online pretty easy if you do a search for them.

They are considerably heavier than other boots rated for the same temps, but they are watertight inside and out, so if water comes over the top, you can dump it out and your GTG, as it won't soak into the insulation.

They are really comfortable, but they will scrape all the hair off your leg where the top rubs against your calf, and they are hard to pick up and put down all day. Once you get over those issues, they are like wearing slippers.

The only people that won't laugh at you for wearing them is other folks wearing bunny boots.

They have a ridge at the heel for the cable bindings on the old milsurp skis.

If you put cleats on them, you will need the biggest sizes they make.

Once you get used to them, it is really hard to go back to anything else.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 9:05:33 AM EDT
No matter which you go with black or white, ALWAYS have extra socks and change them frequently. Mickey Mouse boots are "vapor barrier" which means they don't breathe and won't let moisture escape. After 2 hours of humping in them your feet will be soaking wet with sweat. When I was in the Army our SOP was to change socks every 2 hours. We'd drop our rucks and change socks to a warm dry pair that we kept inside our field jackets/parkas. The wet socks were wrung out and swung around in the air like an airplane propeller. It looked stupid but it got air moving through the wet fabric. Then we put them in our jacket armpits with the toe section down the sleeve and the top half of the sock hanging down next to our bodies. Your body heat will dry them. Immersion foot/trench foot is a very real danger in MM boots if you don't change socks frequently and it's nothing to mess around with.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 9:13:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By XSabers:
No matter which you go with black or white, ALWAYS have extra socks and change them frequently. Mickey Mouse boots are "vapor barrier" which means they don't breathe and won't let moisture escape. After 2 hours of humping in them your feet will be soaking wet with sweat. When I was in the Army our SOP was to change socks every 2 hours. We'd drop our rucks and change socks to a warm dry pair that we kept inside our field jackets/parkas. The wet socks were wrung out and swung around in the air like an airplane propeller. It looked stupid but it got air moving through the wet fabric. Then we put them in our jacket armpits with the toe section down the sleeve and the top half of the sock hanging down next to our bodies. Your body heat will dry them. Immersion foot/trench foot is a very real danger in MM boots if you don't change socks frequently and it's nothing to mess around with.


I was wondering about breathability, or the lack thereof. Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 9:43:46 AM EDT
How heavy are they to use as pack boots? I.e. carry them in your pack to the tree stand, then put them on.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 12:26:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By XSabers:
No matter which you go with black or white, ALWAYS have extra socks and change them frequently. Mickey Mouse boots are "vapor barrier" which means they don't breathe and won't let moisture escape. After 2 hours of humping in them your feet will be soaking wet with sweat. When I was in the Army our SOP was to change socks every 2 hours. We'd drop our rucks and change socks to a warm dry pair that we kept inside our field jackets/parkas. The wet socks were wrung out and swung around in the air like an airplane propeller. It looked stupid but it got air moving through the wet fabric. Then we put them in our jacket armpits with the toe section down the sleeve and the top half of the sock hanging down next to our bodies. Your body heat will dry them. Immersion foot/trench foot is a very real danger in MM boots if you don't change socks frequently and it's nothing to mess around with.


Ummm, ignore this.

While it may have been the OPs experience, it was borne out of paranoia rather than any real issue. The way to get around this is not to lace the boots up tight. They will breathe better than anything else you put on. When it gets too cold for that, lace them up. Wet socks won't mess up the insulation of the boot, and if you take the boots off at night and change your socks, there is no issue in the least with trench foot. Guys wear vapor barrier socks all the time, and only take them off at night. Guys work all day in rubber boots also, and don't change socks every two hours. If you are working hard, your socks will soak with sweat even if you are just wearing plain leather boots... life goes on.

You can pack them in a pack, but they are big and heavy. In the neighborhood of 6lbs or more for the pair, and when they are cold, it takes a lot to warm them up. I would probably go with Sorrels or something that are softer and lighter for that purpose. The hot ticket would be some overboots or down booties. Lightweight, easy to pack, etc.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 1:00:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2011 1:02:39 PM EDT by XSabers]
I guess we all have our crosses to bear. I'll gladly carry the one for the 1-15th Infantry and the 10th SF Group. I never said MM boots were bad just a caution about keeping your feet dry. IMO dry feet are critically important in weather cold enough to need MM boots, but YMMV. Having had frost bite and seeing a case of immersion foot I don't consider my observations as much paranoia as I do common sense.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 2:29:07 PM EDT
Yes, your feet will sweat pretty bad in the white ones. Don't blow them up. We were always instructed not to as something bout ice crystals from your breath forming. That's what we were told when we were issued them. Ohhh, whatever you do, for the love of God, don't open the valve and try to blow up the boots while your outside. Think, A Christmas Story..........
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 5:32:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By XSabers:
I guess we all have our crosses to bear. I'll gladly carry the one for the 1-15th Infantry and the 10th SF Group. I never said MM boots were bad just a caution about keeping your feet dry. IMO dry feet are critically important in weather cold enough to need MM boots, but YMMV. Having had frost bite and seeing a case of immersion foot I don't consider my observations as much paranoia as I do common sense.


It's all good. Dry feet are important, just not in bunny boots in normal conditions. On the other hand, if a person had to keep them on 24hrs a day in order to stay warm, then it would change things immensely, and omitting the step you guys took would be foolhardy. I guess there is also option C, that wearing the same socks all day makes me totally hardcore and I just don't know it...
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:34:24 PM EDT
I have both colors in the same size.

The white bata's are smaller than the blacks bata's.
I need to go up a size at least.
I use the blacks down to -30F if i am where i am active moving around.
But you can get cold with the whites just sitting.

Your legs will get a work out but will get used to them.
They are standard wear up here.

Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:57:42 PM EDT
extra laces are handy they have a habit of breaking. the air valve is an old airborne thing, seal and forget now days, they are Fing heavy. (seriously like 3-4 lbs EACH foot). they work ok with army issue snowshoes(old style magneesium ones dunno if there is a new type but probably there is). you can literally POUR sweaty foot water out of them after a long day of hiking(best done out side your tent don't ask HOW I KNOW). if they are used heavily the traction is worn off you might need to shoe goo some on to the pad of your foot else they are like a mini sled.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 6:18:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Any-Cal:
The black ones are considered a -20ish, the white ones are -50ish. The white ones have an extra layer of insulation in them.

There is a special milsurp wool sock for them that is very long, and is designed to be folded down over the top of the boot so it doesn't sag in them.

The black ones are considerably smaller than the white ones, and lighter as well. A size 8 white one is bigger than a size 10 black one. ETA- I am referring to the outside, overall size of the boot, not the general trend to run large or small according to size that is mentioned later.

Open the valve, put the boots in the cold, then close it. Part of what the boots do is expand when you heat the air between the layers, and it helps make them warmer. If you leave the valve open you defeat that feature. Some people blow air into them through the valve, but that isn't really what it is for.

Not all of them have the valve, it doesn't really matter if they do or not.

You can buy them online pretty easy if you do a search for them.

They are considerably heavier than other boots rated for the same temps, but they are watertight inside and out, so if water comes over the top, you can dump it out and your GTG, as it won't soak into the insulation.

They are really comfortable, but they will scrape all the hair off your leg where the top rubs against your calf, and they are hard to pick up and put down all day. Once you get over those issues, they are like wearing slippers.

The only people that won't laugh at you for wearing them is other folks wearing bunny boots.

They have a ridge at the heel for the cable bindings on the old milsurp skis.

If you put cleats on them, you will need the biggest sizes they make.

Once you get used to them, it is really hard to go back to anything else.




How do you open the valve???

Link Posted: 1/29/2011 7:54:50 AM EDT
You just turn them by hand.
If the valve is stuck do not try and get it open with pliers as you can tear the valve off.
Seen that happen way too often.

If you want a lighter boot look at Northern Outfitter boots.
They are bulky but very warm.
Tough to drive in them but it takes a bit to get used to them just like the bunny boots.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 12:51:02 PM EDT
Finally got around to picking up a pair this week after reading this thread. Think I'll throw them on tomorrow while shoveling the driveway to make sure they work OK. Never know when the surplus stuff you get was surplused for good reason unless you try it out.
Top Top