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Posted: 7/28/2009 4:00:32 PM EST
Fellow Arfcom members:

I've spent lots of time reading topics on this website and several others about buggin' out, bobs, and the like. I've also spent many days and nights reading survival books. With that said, I've found no information about how I should prepare and bug out with my 14 month son. I also have another child on the way, so I could be bugging out with a wife and possibly two young children.
Before we continue, my background. I live in Arlington, VA; only five minutes from Washington. I personally believe the chance of some type of terrorist attack could be very high in the area because not only do you have the capital, but you have numerous military bases nearby. My bug out location is my parents house, 50 miles to the south. They live in a large home, and while its technically in a subdivision, its quiet and well off the beatin' path. Most of my supplies and around 15k rounds of ammo await me there. So, the SHTF! I through the bags and guns in the truck and head south. But wait! The truck breaks down/ the road becomes unpassable/ there's major looting/ ect. and we have to ditch the car. I plan to head south along the Potamac along railroad tracks. Its relatively quiet and few subdivisions/people near there. It also runs very close to the folks place. So, what should my bob contain that revolves around careing for children? Technically, my 14 month old goes through 5-6 diapers a day. For a topside of a three day trek, it could be 20 diapers! That's alot of space in a bob thats already crowded as it is. Also, any advice for moving on foot with young ones? Hopefully we won't have to walk for 50 miles, but it's certainly a possibility. Any advice?

Also, any advice for child/infant size gas masks? My wife and I each have one, but I need something for them too and filters that cover NBC.

Thanks in advance!

Jeremy S.
Link Posted: 7/28/2009 4:16:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By JeremyAR-15:
Fellow Arfcom members:

I've spent lots of time reading topics on this website and several others about buggin' out, bobs, and the like. I've also spent many days and nights reading survival books. With that said, I've found no information about how I should prepare and bug out with my 14 month son. I also have another child on the way, so I could be bugging out with a wife and possibly two young children.
Before we continue, my background. I live in Arlington, VA; only five minutes from Washington. I personally believe the chance of some type of terrorist attack could be very high in the area because not only do you have the capital, but you have numerous military bases nearby. My bug out location is my parents house, 50 miles to the south. They live in a large home, and while its technically in a subdivision, its quiet and well off the beatin' path. Most of my supplies and around 15k rounds of ammo await me there. So, the SHTF! I through the bags and guns in the truck and head south. But wait! The truck breaks down/ the road becomes unpassable/ there's major looting/ ect. and we have to ditch the car. I plan to head south along the Potamac along railroad tracks. Its relatively quiet and few subdivisions/people near there. It also runs very close to the folks place. So, what should my bob contain that revolves around careing for children? Technically, my 14 month old goes through 5-6 diapers a day. For a topside of a three day trek, it could be 20 diapers! That's alot of space in a bob thats already crowded as it is. Also, any advice for moving on foot with young ones? Hopefully we won't have to walk for 50 miles, but it's certainly a possibility. Any advice?

Also, any advice for child/infant size gas masks? My wife and I each have one, but I need something for them too and filters that cover NBC.

Thanks in advance!

Jeremy S.

Just a few random thoughts. Have a small 2 wheeled cart that you can drag over rough terrain in the vehicle in case you break down. Vacuum pack the diapers in a seal-a-meal to get the air out and compress them. It will also protect them from the elements. Check out the child/infant gas masks here: http://approvedgasmasks.com/child-masks.htm

Link Posted: 7/28/2009 4:25:02 PM EST
I say leave'em. They're dead weight.
Link Posted: 7/28/2009 5:28:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By rcatesbiana:
I say leave'em. They're dead weight.
.

Haha! Clearly you don't have children. Thanks for the vacuum pack idea and the website is great. Exactly what I needed.

Link Posted: 7/28/2009 6:44:26 PM EST
Here I go again

A bicycle is a lot faster than walking, and there are rail road adapters if you need to ride the rails.


The trailer is rated to haul 100 pounds and it has seats for 2 toddlers. I pedaled up onto that berm with about 65 pounds of kids in the trailer. You can see in the pic that there is plenty of terrain crossing ability if you don't get stupid.


Miss training wheels was 2 weeks old when the sky fell at the 22-400 home.

For a BO we have 2 trailers and 3 bikers that can tow. This would allow us to travel and take turns towing the trailers.

I luv this stroller; I've got an older one that has been great, but this one got me to slobberin' when I test drove it in the store.

The trailer. My trailers are older, and were purchased used. Now you have an idea of the quality needed to deliver good reliable service though.

Third world, hipy, lib yupy way to carry a kid. Dad you can almost stuff one of these in a pocket. MA and I have used slings with all the kids, but the home made ones fit better. Great urban camo.

Enjoy the kids; they do not stay little very long.

Hope that helps
Link Posted: 7/28/2009 7:04:57 PM EST
Yea, you need one of those heavy duty three wheeled strollers with the big wheels on them. It'll be the easiest to push along railroad ties. Plus, most strollers have enough storage underneath to accommodate three days of formula and diapers. Keep the extra formula and diapers in the house with the BOB's in a climate controlled area, or the formula will go bad very quickly. Rotate every couple of months. Don't forget to rotate the diapers every few months because their size changes often at that age. Even if your wife breast feeds, still get the formula because you can't count on your wife being with you if big disaster happens or if she is injured or whatever.
Link Posted: 7/28/2009 7:09:23 PM EST
Sorry, you are at the stage that you are in a world of hurt if you have to bug out. It would be worth working on beefing up your bug in provisions for a while. Some things that come to mind:

- Sunscreen & wide brim hats for the youngins
- Inflatable children's vests for water crossings
- The bike idea is good, but you can look into an "off-road" stroller too.
- Potassium Iodide tablets
- Fever control meds
- Food for the kids over food for you. A hungry kid is a noisy kid. You can go for weeks without eating.
- Water = life. If you run out of space, consider cloth diapers and more potable water.
- I cannot remember but you still may be able to use a chest harness at 14mos, you definitely can for the infant to come.
Link Posted: 7/28/2009 7:11:46 PM EST
This is a great subject(to those with small children of course!). I have been at a loss as what to do with my situation. I also have a 20 month old and one in the chamber, due in September. I am in a location that should allow me to bug in, but you never know. Congrats BTW, and tag-ola for moar.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 2:17:48 AM EST
I used to live in Stafford and thought of this all the time.... I worked in Crystal City...

Many folks who were worried about bugging home on foot (9/11 turned all surface streets into parking lots for 3-4 hours), have rental storage units full of their gear a couple miles out side where they think is the risky zones.

Others keep a bike at work. They don't use it, but it's there.

Most however have a really good map of all streets including (and especially) the dirt roads. When I used to work near Dulles, I took a combination of double, single, and dirt lanes all the way home... it made for a very scenic drive and at an average speed of 45mph, it sure beat sitting in I-95 for unknown periods of time!

In the event of a major bug out, you can pretty much rest assured that I-95 and US 1 will be blocked by the mob... consider driving WEST and then south.... swing out as far as Front Royal or the sky line and then drop down, then cut back East around Stafford or Fredericskburg.

As for weapons....of course we all know the risk...but in a 9/11 event I don't think we'll see Mad Max developing in the first days in NOVA.... just too dense with .mil, .gov and leos.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 3:08:52 AM EST
We do bug-in

I felt it would be very difficult for me, wife and two toddlers to be Bugging Out. So, 5 years ago, we moved out to country
110 acres, small home, shelter, garden, cows, and horses, goats, cats, chickents, ponds, wild hogs, etc.

Now my son is old enough for us to do any firearms drill any time we want.
One bad things is I drive 3 hours a day for commute but it is all worth it.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 6:39:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By berto187:
This is a great subject(to those with small children of course!). I have been at a loss as what to do with my situation. I also have a 20 month old and one in the chamber, due in September. I am in a location that should allow me to bug in, but you never know. Congrats BTW, and tag-ola for moar.


Classic! I'll have to tell my wife that one.

Thanks for the info so far guys. Right now, we live in a apartment in the middle of town, so ideally, I don't want to stay long. Everyone in the complex is a mid 20's, liberal, douchebag that look down on people like me. We all know a few. It won't take long before they go ballistic and raid the police station/fire stations/hospitals/ and what not. So, with that said, buggin' in is low on the list of options. I like the bike idea, and the Mrs. and I have been talking about buying bikes for good exercise. NoVA is truly a biking community and there are alot of trails and paths to use and stay off busy roads. I also like the above mentioned go west and then swing south. I know a few ways out that way and if I95 sucks on any given day, if the SHTF, its going to be a true parking lot. Thanks for all the advice so far guys.

Jeremy S.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 6:52:46 AM EST
You didn't mention whether or not you have dogs.

Either way an expedient way to carry more gear (including children) is a travois.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 7:11:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 7:23:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 7:41:58 PM EST
This is what I have.... bought it for hiking but doubles as Bug-out transportation. I am the same, bug-in while I can but here in the desert once water is gone so are we.

This has worked well on the various trips in the mountains so far.... just have to keep air in the tires.

http://www.mountainbuggy.com/catalog/buggies/urban-elite/
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 9:18:37 PM EST
Well guess you or Mom are going to have to carry something!! If it where me I would have my wife carry the oldest in this I have had mine for 9 years and has gone through three kids great tool.

Or the bike like said above the only problem I see with that is if the wife is 6+ months she is not going to enjoy the bike! Ok for the truck buy extra tires!! Try these yes there retreads but I have had mine for 9,000 miles with no problem they have taken me on two long trips first one was 20 hours one way the next one was 16 hours long no problem with them! get a map and look for the "back roads" might take you longer but you will run it to less people.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 5:14:02 AM EST
From an LEO perspective......one of the best things you can do was mentioned here already.....canvass your area and all the routes out....know your city and the surrounding cities. What I see happen all the time during large community festivals, concerts, water line breaks is people line up on the main roads and have no idea how to get home except the route they always take. They get stuck in traffic and rely on us to direct them where to go......if things go bad we won't be there to direct traffic and then it's a real jam up. If it gets bad enough I'm gone and like the OP, I have stuff in place in the mountains already

I was travelling last weekend and went by a gas station that had very cheap fuel for NC and there were lines at the pumps even out to the roadway. I pulled in and everyone was lined up coming in from the same direction. I drove around the back of the gas station and approached from the far side and was able to get right in behind a small car that finished up with just 20.00....I fueled up and left in no more time than I usually take.

I have a take on kids in that often times when travelling with children at anytime it gets you to the front of the line at airports etc. During a time of crisis, you might find that travelling with kids is beneficial feeding off the sympathy of others....letting you pass through checkpoints, or handing out extra food etc.

Interesting take on the dogs....I have two German Shepards that hike with the gear packs for their food and water that could just as easy be ammo, tarps, food, flashlights etc. Those two dogs are like machines they just go and go and go......and bonus they add that nice "leave me alone" aura........

Link Posted: 9/9/2009 6:01:23 AM EST
+1 on on the "jogging stroller" with the pnematic wheels. We bought a double one at a garage sale for $75 (about 300 new) Greatest stroller ever. They will roll over rough ground easily and on pavement it takes no more than a finger to steer and push. A must for any parent.

The only issue is on ours, the storage area does not hold much as provided, and if you put too much weight in it, it comes loose. So we took the storage area off. For the fair (which for me was a stroller deployment exercise) we rigged a couple of bags with diapers and gear in such a way that it hung off the back handle. To counterbalance, we bungied a soft cooler full of water and food on the front. It worked better than I expected.

Link Posted: 9/9/2009 6:10:50 AM EST
I am in almost the same scenerio only with more kids. My wife and I have 5 with one on the way. Ages 12 - 6. So bugging out is less of an option as staying put. The good thing is our location is ideal. 300 acre lake, several hundred acres of leased land a few miles from our house, and family land with in 15 minute drive. So we are staying put unless absolutly worst case.

However here are some things you will need to consider when bugging out with little ones.

Stuff! We got along without it for a long time and you are going to have to learn to get on without it again. Cloth diapers, or a sheet that can be cut up into lots of thin "throw away" diapers is your best bet. Disposables take up alot of room and you will run out quickly. Better to wash cloth ones and deal with the smell then not have anything.

Food: This gets tricky but powder formula is lighter and will keep longer than anything else. I would highly reccomend your wife breast feed as it can be "manufactured" on the go so to speak.
You must have a way of filtering water to go into making formula. That would be one of the highest prioties for your children.

Also I would consider adding a hand grinder to your supplies, as children can be fed food that has been ground or "mushed up" very early if it becomes neccesary. Even grains and meats if cooked and ground up into a paste can be fed if needed. So preparing adult food into baby food is an option.

For foot travel a sled would be invaluable. High sides and a slick bottom with ropes and harnesses to pull with will make hauling the kids and gear alot easier.

With my kids a little older each one has thier own small daypack ready to go in my "supply room" with each of thier own essentials including some comfort foods and some small games to play. Remember with kids keeping them quiet and out of sight can be a big problem so plan ahead for that as well.

The main 4 is always a good start: Water (and ways to collect it and clean it) Food (ways to collect it, and prepare it) Shelter (skills to make it) And fire (kind of self explanatory) With kids add, first aid, and health. Take some first aid/CPR classes, ask your peditrician about every illness and medicine when you go for check ups and visits so if you need to diagnose on your own you will have some experiance with the normal childhood illnesses and treatments. Always include child types of medicines in your first aid kit as adult dosages can be harmful.

Hope this helps as a starter.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 1:02:32 PM EST

Luke 21: 23
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Thanks for starting this thread. We just had our first. I don't feel very invincible anymore.
Now we're about to move, so I need to completely re-plan my SHTF ideas.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 2:03:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2009 2:04:08 PM EST by PA22-400]
Originally Posted By fluwoebers:

Luke 21: 23
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.


Thanks for starting this thread. We just had our first. I don't feel very invincible anymore.
Now we're about to move, so I need to completely re-plan my SHTF ideas.


Well you were warned a couple thousand years ago......
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 2:05:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By rcatesbiana:
I say leave'em. They're dead weight.



I say bring em. They're going to be the leanest, freshest meat when we have to turn to cannibalism.






Link Posted: 9/9/2009 3:06:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lympago:
Originally Posted By rcatesbiana:
I say leave'em. They're dead weight.



I say bring em. They're going to be the leanest, freshest meat when we have to turn to cannibalism.








Yaaa..., I'll talk to the miss' about that; but I don't think she'll find it funny.

On a positive note, great new ideas on a "dead" thread I started several months ago.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 3:17:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By JeremyAR-15:
Originally Posted By Lympago:
Originally Posted By rcatesbiana:
I say leave'em. They're dead weight.



I say bring em. They're going to be the leanest, freshest meat when we have to turn to cannibalism.








Yaaa..., I'll talk to the miss' about that; but I don't think she'll find it funny.

On a positive note, great new ideas on a "dead" thread I started several months ago.



I never meant for you to eat your own chitlen's. That's just cruel. The rest of us are another thing though.








Just teasing. I don't have children, so I'm really no help except for wisecracks.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 5:44:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By rcatesbiana:
I say leave'em. They're dead weight.


What a dick. Maybe your mamma should've done that with you

Link Posted: 9/9/2009 6:08:53 PM EST
Get to know someone who works at the Pentagon. On a certain floor.

If you see them loading up the Jeep or suburban at 3am, DO THE SAME AND GO GO GO....

I used to live in Crystal City.... then we moved to Stafford and I worked in Crystal City... took either the train, or 'slugging' on the HOV lanes to work (dropped off/picked up at the Pentagon).

BTW, as an aside, if anyone wants to see a fantastic array of motorbikes, take the metro to the Pentagon, take the escalator up, and then walk straight across the parking lot towards CC.... you'll pass 1-2 rows of every make and model... BMWs, Japanese, Italian, Harley's and others. All cool, cool bikes.... I watched one bespeckled and pin-stripped CEO type guy come out of the building, walk over to a big Hog and unlatch the saddle bags.... transforming himself into a "biker dude" in about 2 minutes.

Anyhoo, there are people 'in the know' about threats and incoming threats. They can't AND WON'T tell you, but watching their moves tells you a lot about life if you know what to look for. One guy I met had EVERYTHING pre-packed, pre-loaded in a BOV and ready to haul a## night and day... he had a rendevous point to meet up with his wife and kids out west and gave them basically a 4 day time frame to wait for him before concluding something happened.

So seriously consider having your wife get a jump on the instant traffic that might result in a terror event... with I-95 and US 1 being parking lots on good days (even nights!), having her ready to drop everything and go go go towards Richmond (at least to get past Fredericksburg) might be the best idea.

I looked at bike trails... from Arlington I BELIEVE there's a trail that'll take you as far as Mt. Vernon. But there's precious few North-south roads from NoVA to Richmond (probably for a civil war era reason).

I looked at boat taxis, canoes, sail boats.... it would take about a day to row, sail, motor from DC to Stafford or points south and might be as good a route as any other.

But sheltering in place might be the best bet. If I were you, plan A would be to hunker in place or find a basement sheltered room either at work or near home where you could hole up. If that's not possible, consider Plan B - bugging out by vehicle not just on roads but also trails or subdivision streets, which might mean you need to literally go ACROSS yards.... see how far you could get and keep in mind hidey holes en route.... a metro station here, a church building there....an office parking garage there....

If there's a mushroom cloud over DC I don't think you'll need to worry about crime as much as panicked people desperate and losing their minds...

So unless you can be pretty sure you can drive out at least past Stafford, I think sheltering in place is the best option. Getting stuck on a surface street with tens of thousands of panicked people is not my idea of 'bugging out'. Trying to make it south on foot.... when that might conservatively mean going at most 20 miles per day.... again, not the optimal idea.



Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:04:07 PM EST
Probably goes without saying, but these are my opinions so take them as such.

You need to move. If you're convinced that something is going to happen then you need to take that conviction seriously. DC is the wrong place to be near when something does happen. Move.

If you are simply unable to move and MUST plan for a bug out (bugging in is NOT an option), then plan lean. You have kids, you know what wrangling kids with gear to the MALL is like. Ditch the bike idea. Ditch the stroller idea. Your wife carries teh newborn in a baby bjorn. You carry the toddler in a Kelty backpack. This way, both of you can STILL carry essentials in the backpacks AND have your hands free to carry guns. And if you're in a situation where you can't drive to mom and dads, you'lll want to be carrying guns.

As for the diapers, get bum genius cloth diapers. You can't afford the space that disposables will take up. Kids are noisy and you'll need to be moving AWAY from populated areas where kids will attract attention. It will take you longer than you think.

Carry water purification devices, not water.

Fuck the guy who said leave the kids. The kids are more important than YOU. That's the level of responsibility you signed up for when you brought them into this world.

God speed.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:39:38 PM EST
We had a daughter about 5 months ago and I have a new perspective on everything, including preperation.

BOB stroller - http://www.bobgear.com/
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 9:11:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 9:11:45 PM EST by Bubbatheredneck]
Originally Posted By ReluctantWarrior:
Probably goes without saying, but these are my opinions so take them as such.

You need to move. If you're convinced that something is going to happen then you need to take that conviction seriously. DC is the wrong place to be near when something does happen. Move.

If you are simply unable to move and MUST plan for a bug out (bugging in is NOT an option), then plan lean. You have kids, you know what wrangling kids with gear to the MALL is like. Ditch the bike idea. Ditch the stroller idea. Your wife carries teh newborn in a baby bjorn. You carry the toddler in a Kelty backpack. This way, both of you can STILL carry essentials in the backpacks AND have your hands free to carry guns. And if you're in a situation where you can't drive to mom and dads, you'lll want to be carrying guns.

As for the diapers, get bum genius cloth diapers. You can't afford the space that disposables will take up. Kids are noisy and you'll need to be moving AWAY from populated areas where kids will attract attention. It will take you longer than you think.

Carry water purification devices, not water.

Fuck the guy who said leave the kids. The kids are more important than YOU. That's the level of responsibility you signed up for when you brought them into this world.

God speed.


I disagree.

Aint no way no how you can bo on foot with two infants without wheels except by the grace of God.

Get a couple of the all terrain strollers. Kid stuff gets stuffed under and on the stroller. Your stuff is on your back.

Even better, mountain bikes with trailers that convert to strollers if needed would be a great "life raft" option if your BOV goes down.

A UTV on a trailer behind your BOV may even be better.

Carrying kids is harder than carrying dead weight. Kids move and kick and wiggle. I have four. I know.

For winter/snow add a couple of cheap sleds to pull all of the above.

If walking and carrying kids is plan B, you really really really need to rethink plan A.





Link Posted: 9/18/2009 4:20:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By ReluctantWarrior:

Fuck the guy who said leave the kids. The kids are more important than YOU. That's the level of responsibility you signed up for when you brought them into this world.

God speed.


I have kids and I totally took the "dead weight" and "cannibalism" comments as a jokes. I second the good ideas. Not living in a potentially dangerous area solves a lot of problems. Hence, my very long daily commute.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 4:57:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By HomeSlice:
Originally Posted By rcatesbiana:
I say leave'em. They're dead weight.


What a dick. Maybe your mamma should've done that with you




"What a dick " was the first thing that crossed my mind as well.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:56:21 AM EST
Jeremy, you need to read some books by former Washington DC reporter Ruth Montgomey. Chaos is at least 4 years away.

Yes, looters will be a problem, but organizing with your neighbors can help.

Evacuating, not "bugging out" is another way to go. Head into the mountains, and if the NEXT president offers relocation incentives to "enterprize zones", go for it!
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:59:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By ReluctantWarrior:
Probably goes without saying, but these are my opinions so take them as such.

You need to move. If you're convinced that something is going to happen then you need to take that conviction seriously. DC is the wrong place to be near when something does happen. Move.

If you are simply unable to move and MUST plan for a bug out (bugging in is NOT an option), then plan lean. You have kids, you know what wrangling kids with gear to the MALL is like. Ditch the bike idea. Ditch the stroller idea. Your wife carries teh newborn in a baby bjorn. You carry the toddler in a Kelty backpack. This way, both of you can STILL carry essentials in the backpacks AND have your hands free to carry guns. And if you're in a situation where you can't drive to mom and dads, you'lll want to be carrying guns.

As for the diapers, get bum genius cloth diapers. You can't afford the space that disposables will take up. Kids are noisy and you'll need to be moving AWAY from populated areas where kids will attract attention. It will take you longer than you think.

Carry water purification devices, not water.

Fuck the guy who said leave the kids. The kids are more important than YOU. That's the level of responsibility you signed up for when you brought them into this world.

God speed.


Spot on Warrior!!
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