Official .260 tOBR Thread-Pics/Range/Loads/Updated Thread Index (Page 53 of 188)
Today's update is a new arrival and one more piece to the increase in precision for reloading (hopefully).  The A&D FX-120i combo finally arrived and I was pleased to find it has a $150 rebate! I'll have to unbox it and see if I can get acquainted with the setup and operation.
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
I was not serious about the refund. This rifle makes me look good. https://i.imgur.com/T6aZk9P.jpg https://i.imgur.com/28FNkEa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Y3wrkHG.jpg Most of the time 
https://i.imgur.com/MhFOlFf.jpg |
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I set up the A&D combo and am almost ready to use it, but I need a 100gram calibration weight. I have two 20's and some in grains, but nothing that adds up to 100grams. 
Off to eBay. 
ETA - The unit has an internal mass calibration but recommends using an external weight. I found an American made one (F1 class) for a decent price on Amazon versus going to China. 
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Originally Posted By snakeman48: Let there be light. Nice, where did you get them at, and cost? |
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Today's update is fairly simple since I'm still waiting on a couple more parts and pieces. My Redding T-7 arrived and it's a beast, it probably weighs in around 35lbs. I like that rotating turret design; I think it will be nice to set up a number of dies instead of having to swap them in the Forster or readjust them between the bolt gun and the gasser. I can also use the Redding competition shell holder set that has shell holders with increments of 0.001". I'll play the press a bit and see if the concept works.
When I built the bench I put Rockler T-Tracks in as a way to quickly attach items so I could save some space. Before - clean and organized. 
Now, not so much. 
T-Tracks: 
So, I need to get the press setup to use the tracks, but it's a simple process. I grabbed a leftover piece of 3/4" plywood that I used for the shelves. Drill 3/8" holes for the track bolt, mark the position for the press and then drill it for bolts, then mount and you're done. I also have the Rockler clamps so I just used them to drill the plywood. It's all done now and all I have to do is figure out the dies I want to use. 
I can leave the press in the tracks or take it out as needed to save some space. |
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First time with the LT260 using the Tranquilo suppressor. I changed the muzzle device from a SiCo to the Larue.
Also used a Magneeto Speed chronograph on some of the groups to compare speeds. Groups at 100 yards using factory Hornady 130 ELDM. The 1st group I was very displeased with, not sure what happened. Thought I had ruined something by swapping muzzle devices. 2nd, 3rd, & 4th groups weren't much better. Groups 5-8 were the 1st shots with the Tranquilo and are decent. For reference this 1st photo is with a SiCo muzzle brake unsuppressed back in August. This is my 1st time shooting this rifle with the 260 barrel: 
Suppressed in August: 
Another suppressed in October:  Today with the LT260 which shows quite a difference! Again not sure why the 1st few groups are so bad. Big difference from a SiCo brake to the Larue, and even bigger with the TQ! 
I tried again with no Magneeto Speed & without the Tranquilo and got better results. Then tried the Tranquilo again also with good results. Still a decent shift from the SiCo brake/suppressor: 
2nd group through the scope: 
500 & 800 yard targets. Shot a few rounds at 800 and got some hits. 
At 500 yards. 1st group mostly centered, they rest I was going for the swinger: 
My rickety bench set-up: 
Some groups with my loads with a JP-15 rifle: 
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
First time with the LT260 using the Tranquilo suppressor. I changed the muzzle device from a SiCo to the Larue. Also used a Magneeto Speed chronograph on some of the groups to compare speeds. Groups at 100 yards using factory Hornady 130 ELDM. The 1st group I was very displeased with, not sure what happened. Thought I had ruined something by swapping muzzle devices. 2nd, 3rd, & 4th groups weren't much better. Groups 5-8 were the 1st shots with the Tranquilo and are decent. For reference this 1st photo is with a SiCo muzzle brake unsuppressed back in August. This is my 1st time shooting this rifle with the 260 barrel: https://i.imgur.com/T6aZk9P.jpg Suppressed in August: https://i.imgur.com/28FNkEa.jpg Another suppressed in October: https://i.imgur.com/MhFOlFf.jpg Today with the LT260 which shows quite a difference! Again not sure why the 1st few groups are so bad. Big difference from a SiCo brake to the Larue, and even bigger with the TQ! https://i.imgur.com/5LBesY2.jpg I tried again with no Magneeto Speed & without the Tranquilo and got better results. Then tried the Tranquilo again also with good results. Still a decent shift from the SiCo brake/suppressor: https://i.imgur.com/5XhETtj.jpg 2nd group through the scope: https://i.imgur.com/ssngAWT.jpg 500 & 800 yard targets. Shot a few rounds at 800 and got some hits. https://i.imgur.com/MJr6Rfq.jpg At 500 yards. 1st group mostly centered, they rest I was going for the swinger: https://i.imgur.com/DtUCXbL.jpg My rickety bench set-up: https://i.imgur.com/RXrRZY0.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qlUxFm6.jpg Some groups with my loads with a JP-15 rifle: https://i.imgur.com/kElzvGF.jpg Just a couple thoughts that the new barrel is settling in during those first groups. My POI shifted with each muzzle device I used, and I believe I went from a 7.62 TQ brake to the 6.5TQ brake and had a small shift. The TQ I use is the same one I used on the 7.62. It shows more of a POI shift on the 260 than on the 7.62. Once you dial it in, it's repeatable at all distances. |
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| Some good data here from Alpha Munitions about SRP versus LRP, which includes good reloading data. |
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"Observations, personal opinion and what you didn’t see:
Looking at the performance data for these calibers, the 260 SRP clearly had the lowest SDs and ESs. The 6.5 Creedmoor LRP had lower SDs and ESs in 3 of 5 firings and the 6 Creedmoor SDs were essentially the same though the LRP exhibited slightly lower ESs. So, at least in our 300 shot LRP/SRP comparison test, there wasn’t the monumental SRP performance advantage over the LRP like anticipated, actually just the opposite occurred. The differences for the most part were insignificant when it comes to range performance. A few consistent observations during these tests though: The large primer, given all else is exactly the same, produces higher velocities. In every fired string, the small primer groups were slightly smaller than the large. If the SRP is fired in a firearm using the large, .078 firing pin and large firing pin hole, you will experience cratered or pierced primer cups at higher pressures/velocities. What you didn’t see, though I suspect some would like solid information, was a case longevity test. I’ve done this before, as have several of our top ranked competition friends including those at Team Area 419 with everyone coming to the same conclusion; when pushed to maximum velocities and pressures, the SRP will out live the LRP before the large primer pockets expand to a point where they will no longer hold the primer. At no point during any of the testing I’ve done to date did the small primer pockets expand greater than .173, a dimension that will still adequately hold the primer in place. The same can’t be said of the large primer brass. What are these case life numbers? The loading component lot differences, barrel, chamber differences combined with the public’s reloading expertise are unknowns that are just too varied to come up with solid numbers. The only aspects we can control are our brass dimensions and quality. The rest is up to you. In conclusion, should you wait on or switch from LRP to SRP? Only you can determine that answer. Each of us has our reasons to stay or switch. If you’re like me, and I suspect a lot of you are, and were able to score on a case of Federal 210Ms for example, I’m staying. If you’re on the fence and want to make a change to SRP, then there’s absolutely no down side to doing so. When you look at 30, ten shot strings, 29 were all single digit SDs regardless of large or small primers used and all groups were sub ¾ MOA. " |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
"Observations, personal opinion and what you didn’t see: Looking at the performance data for these calibers, the 260 SRP clearly had the lowest SDs and ESs. The 6.5 Creedmoor LRP had lower SDs and ESs in 3 of 5 firings and the 6 Creedmoor SDs were essentially the same though the LRP exhibited slightly lower ESs. So, at least in our 300 shot LRP/SRP comparison test, there wasn’t the monumental SRP performance advantage over the LRP like anticipated, actually just the opposite occurred. The differences for the most part were insignificant when it comes to range performance. A few consistent observations during these tests though: The large primer, given all else is exactly the same, produces higher velocities. In every fired string, the small primer groups were slightly smaller than the large. If the SRP is fired in a firearm using the large, .078 firing pin and large firing pin hole, you will experience cratered or pierced primer cups at higher pressures/velocities. What you didn’t see, though I suspect some would like solid information, was a case longevity test. I’ve done this before, as have several of our top ranked competition friends including those at Team Area 419 with everyone coming to the same conclusion; when pushed to maximum velocities and pressures, the SRP will out live the LRP before the large primer pockets expand to a point where they will no longer hold the primer. At no point during any of the testing I’ve done to date did the small primer pockets expand greater than .173, a dimension that will still adequately hold the primer in place. The same can’t be said of the large primer brass. What are these case life numbers? The loading component lot differences, barrel, chamber differences combined with the public’s reloading expertise are unknowns that are just too varied to come up with solid numbers. The only aspects we can control are our brass dimensions and quality. The rest is up to you. In conclusion, should you wait on or switch from LRP to SRP? Only you can determine that answer. Each of us has our reasons to stay or switch. If you’re like me, and I suspect a lot of you are, and were able to score on a case of Federal 210Ms for example, I’m staying. If you’re on the fence and want to make a change to SRP, then there’s absolutely no down side to doing so. When you look at 30, ten shot strings, 29 were all single digit SDs regardless of large or small primers used and all groups were sub ¾ MOA. " |
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Originally Posted By Defender3: More brass area for the SRP which will equate to more reloadings at higher pressure before you experience loose pockets. There are so many things to play around with when you load, no one test can tell every factor. I bolded some of the snip so it highlights those points. |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
yeah I agree there, I think that is one of the main reasons to use SRP. There are so many things to play around with when you load, no one test can tell every factor. I bolded some of the snip so it highlights those points. Originally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Defender3: More brass area for the SRP which will equate to more reloadings at higher pressure before you experience loose pockets. There are so many things to play around with when you load, no one test can tell every factor. I bolded some of the snip so it highlights those points. |
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Originally Posted By Defender3: I may dig into the article a bit more, but I wonder (for no particular reason) if they had better powder burn with the magnum SRPs and what type of increased pressure they experienced that translated to higher MVs. Again, an academic exercise for a gasser. |
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Power has been out for almost 90 minutes now so the daily update will have to wait.
ETA: 40-60mph winds all day, which is not normal for this area. Trees are down, I95 is closed as one of the huge overhead signs blew down and 380,000 of us are without power. |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
Stay safe D3, hopefully you have heat?
More than 50% of our county is out and the outage map in this region is fucked. Dominion will be having some long days.... iPad is at 70% so I can at least use cellular until it craps out. |
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Originally Posted By Defender3: Yeah, we lit two candles and are huddled around the flashlights.
More than 50% of our county is out and the outage map in this region is fucked. Dominion will be having some long days.... iPad is at 70% so I can at least use cellular until it craps out. Improvise adapt and overcome.  . |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
You are near Quantico ... Improvise adapt and overcome. . Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Defender3: Yeah, we lit two candles and are huddled around the flashlights.
More than 50% of our county is out and the outage map in this region is fucked. Dominion will be having some long days.... iPad is at 70% so I can at least use cellular until it craps out. Improvise adapt and overcome. . ETA - I think you would have liked today's update showing my barrel, after close to 2000rds, has only worn 0.001 in the throat. |
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
^^^ Or the barrel extension leaned back a thousandth. . Darn power is still out and probably will be all day. |
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Chamber reamers ream a finite number of chambers, then get replaced. So the new barrel was likely chambered with a different reamer ... buuutttt, we do have a tendency to watch what's going on. . |
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and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
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I found a generator about 45 miles south of me at a Home Depot and drove down yesterday to pick it up so I could at least try and save the food; an hour and a half trip took 3 hours with the chaos on the roads. Tress were down, windows were blown out of office buildings (never seen that before), debris, the normal people crashing into each other while texting and road trains of power crews from the Carolinas heading our way. I wasn't holding out too much hope as the crews were handling the "populated" areas, which are code words for the rich F'ers in DC and NoVA. Under the rule of as soon as you wash your car you've just guaranteed rain, as I was pulling up to the estate I see the street light go on, power was restored! I checked the breakers and the fridges were working, but the furnace was not. Breakers were good, unit's fuse was good but the control board was throwing three red lights. A quick check of the interweb tells me I have an inducer motor failure. I pulled to covers and checked the motor and it's bound up tight. Oh well, called the heating guys and they came out to tell me it's bound up and wont work. They have to order one and it will be Monday afternoon before it arrives and they can install. Looks like it will be a bit nippy at the homestead this weekend. Oh, and the wife bailed on me and went to the daughter's house, where she is now sending me pics of the thermostat showing a comfortable 69 degrees! Kudos to the crews though, there were 380,000 people out yesterday and it looks like they've knocked that down to 60,000.
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Bailed on ya?? Where's the love in that Now have the UPS deliver all the stuff she doesn't know you bought.
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Originally Posted By snakeman48:
Bailed on ya?? Where's the love in that Now have the UPS deliver all the stuff she doesn't know you bought.
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
Sounds like quite the adventure! How's the .260 fairing in all of this mess? |
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My apologies to the purists in the thread but I have to divert a bit. I was on the treadmill doing my morning exercise and the movie I was watching ended so I needed to kill another 14 minutes. Channel flipping located From Dusk till Dawn so I tuned it in and wouldn't you know it, it was right after they entered the bar and only a few short minutes until Satánico Pandemonium came to the stage and gave one of the best dance performances in Tarantino history. I pumped up the treadmill and had some extra time after the first viewing so I rewound it and watched again! 2:58 - Drink that whiskey Ritchie! "That's what I call a fucking show!" Also give it up for Tito & Tarantula (After Dark)!  Failed To Load Title We will resume normal programming shortly...but only after we have a little Ginger Baker:
 CREAM - SUNSHINE OF YOUR LOVE (BEST VERSION) Led Zepplin:  Led Zeppelin - Black Dog (Live at Madison Square Garden 1973) (Official Video) George Thorogood with Bo DIddly:  George Thorogood & Bo Diddley - Who Do You Love? (Live Aid 7/13/1985) John Lee Hooker:  John Lee Hooker - Boom Boom (from "The Blues Brothers") And finish it off with some Link Wray, I hope you can handle this version.
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Well, the $1400 inducer motor is no longer being made so now I need a new furnace at $5k or I can get a whole new system for $8k, what a racket. I get bent over and the HVAC guy gets a bigger boat. . I like having heat in the house so I need to get this done before the temps drop even more. Today's update will be later today! |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
That is a shame D3, hopefully you catch a break on this one. I also had a home project this weekend that kicked my boot |
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Today’s update goes back to the throat erosion measurements for the unfired versus the fired .260 barrels. I grew up on Garands and M-14s and my tool box has both throat and muzzle wear gauges as those measurements are vital to know when purchasing a Garand. You want the lowest measurements possible to increase the chance the rifle is a good shooter. You don’t want to get the one where the guy in the field was running his cleaning rod back and forth 1,000 times to the point he actually wore a grove in the side of the barrel’s crown and yes, I’ve seen that! And always remember, buy the gun, not the story the person is telling you about the gun. I have a bill of sale for one of my Lend Lease Garands "certifying" it was carried by Colonel so and so, who was part of Patton's army and who carried the rifle during the war. All BS as the rifle was one of those exported to England under the Lend Lease program and then reimported to the US by importer's like Klein's. A Garand with military ball ammo wears at about a thousandth per 1,000 rounds fired. A field reject would be a throat measurement of a 7 (0.007), which would be about 7,000 rounds fired. The muzzle is a bit different usually showing wear from cleaning. Shown is a “Lend Lease” barreled receiver I owned showing a 2 on the throat, but it swallows a muzzle gauge at a 3+. You could build a good rifle out of that combo, but the groups would open up due to the open crown. An easy fix is to recrown the barrel. 
Manufacturing, machining and tolerances were a bit less precise in the 1940’s than we have today, so you could receive a new barrel that was, for example, a 1 or 2 for wear. Some of the best barrels were made after the war by the Danes who routinely put out some great shooters with a tight bores and muzzles of a -1, which really reduces your groups! Anyways, I decided to use the Forster match grade headspace gauges to see just where my new and used .260 barrels gauged. The process is pretty simply, you strip the ejector from the bolt so the gauge can ride into the chamber. Most of us have the go and no-go gauges, and maybe a field, but the Forster has a set of 11 gauges from the SAMMI minimum of 1.630 through 1.640, in increments of a thousandth. The nice thing is the 260 shares shoulder dimensions with other cartridges so my 308 gauges fit the 260! 
I started with the fired barrel and since it had 2,000rds, I thought it should gauge at 1.632 – 1.633 based off the 2,000 rounds I’ve fired and the 1,000rds per thousandth from the Garand reference. I started with 1.634 and the bolt would not close on the gauge, that’s good! I ran 1.633 and 1.632 and the bolt wouldn’t close! Back to 1.631 and the bolt closed. I repeated the test with the 1.631 and 1.632 and the bolt consistently closed on 1.631. So, this barrel, using Garand logic, is running very well. It could wear more if I pumped up the pressure and MVs, but this rifle likes it at 2,600 – 2,650fps so I expect to have a minimal wear profile on this barrel. 
Headspace is good, the bolt closes: 
Headspace gauge is too long so the bolt will not close: 
I moved to the new barrel and did the same, seeing which gauges would allow the bolt to rotate and close. I started with the 1.631 and it wouldn’t close. I dialed back to the 1.630 and it would close. Rinse and repeat and I obtained the same results. 
So, what’s all this science mean? Not much since, as Mark pointed out, we don’t know how each chamber is cut, age of the reamer, etc. Maybe it means the barrels are within a thousandth when they leave Leander, but I believe I received two barrels at spec (1.630) and I know that after 2,000rds firing moderate pressure factory ammo, I’ve only experienced a thousandth of throat erosion. I should be shooting this barrel for several years before I see any degradation in accuracy. Science lesson over! |
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Originally Posted By rugerdog:
Has anyone tried the 107 TMK yet? I have not been able to find any for sale yet but I am interested. |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
What do you want to do with such a light projectile, go faster? Originally Posted By Defender3:
Originally Posted By rugerdog:
Has anyone tried the 107 TMK yet? I have not been able to find any for sale yet but I am interested. |
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