Ah, ford vs chevy...

T7 in here. Why not have more stages in case....

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/Reloading-equipment-press-case-trimmer-dies-bullets-/114-1741122/

Damn, I did a search for Redding and missed that.  I ended up ordering from Brownells for $289 and free shipping.

Took my FDE 22” 260 out today to a local precision rifle match this morning. Ended up 6th, which was respectable for running the gasser. Hitting 1MOA plates at 900 in the wind is no joke. Still running 130 Bergers under 42.9gr of R16. Velocity is up to 2890 now, I’m just over 1100 rounds through the barrel. Shot a 4x5 yesterday morning to confirm zero and chrono, average for the 4 groups was .7” (.86, .65, .60, .81)

I’ve yet to have a malfunction that wasn’t my fault. I’ve blown a few primers running brass longer than I should, which has locked the gun up. I’m getting 3 loadings out of Hornady brass running the load listed above. Definitely on the hot end, I shoot that load only for matches. I’m past 6 loadings on another batch of Hornady that is loaded much more conservatively.

Thanks for stopping by and giving us an update, it's a welcome change!

I wish I could find some of the Bergers locally, but they seem to be one of the top preferences of the F-Class and Benchrest guys. I'm going to load up the ones I have as well as some Lapuas.  I'll give that 42.9 recipe a go.  What are you running for your non-PRS RL-16 load?

@FRBaseball

ETA - I plugged in a 130gr Berger VLD with 42.9grs of RL16 loaded to 2.800 into QuickLoad and it spit out 2891fps at 56,565psi.  Plugging in a 130gr AR Hybrid OTM came out at 2885fps at 55,987psi.

This makes me want to try the alpha SRP more and more.

Crazy how accurate QL can be. My true chrono #'s were 2889 for 10 rounds, SD of 8.1.

SIDE NOTE: For me personally, I don't pay any attention to chamber pressure #'s from QL or any reloading manual when I'm loading for a gasser. Loads that will blow primers left and right and show serious signs of overpressure on brass when fired from a gasser are perfectly fine in my bolt guns. I think port pressure is the culprit, but with so many variables in gas system length, port diameter, number of ports, and dwell time, there's no hard and fast numbers to go by when loading for a gasser. I don't care what the reloading manuals say is safe as far as chamber pressure because port pressure will start causing issues long before chamber pressure will.

Back on topic, my practice load varies depending on what bullets I've got on hand, but I've had good results with the 120-123 class bullets, AMAX, ELD-M, and Custom Competitions, all using R16 around 42 grains. I use those light bullets because I usually have a good supply of them at the house, I shoot them through a shorty .260 Rem Tikka.

I think I might have found my grail load for the LaRue .260 today. I got a shipment in last week of the new Nosler 130 RDF bullets. Loaded up a rough test from 42 to 42.8gr of R16. 42gr stuck all 5 into .4". More important to me than the slight increase in accuracy was the significant reduction in felt recoil. The recoil impulse was soft and smooth as butter, and the brass came out looking like new. No ejector swipes, no cratered/flowing primers. Just clean brass. Same powder charge under a 130 Berger produces a completely different recoil impulse, and shitty accuracy. I can't explain it, but I sure as shit can feel it. Maybe the difference in the bearing surface length between the two bullets? I'm guessing velocity will be down around 2820, but the RDF has a higher BC than the Berger, so even if I do lose 70fps, at 1K it's a wash. I'll lose .2 in elevation, but gain .1 in wind resistance with a 10MPH full value wind, so nothing to worry about.

I've got 30 rounds of that load ready to go in fresh brass, I'll report back in after I shoot them. I'll chrono 10 and then shoot a 4x5 on a LaRue target.

Thanks again for checking in and with some great data.  What BTO are you using for the RDFs?  I just got some of the 130s and may replicate your round in some LRP and SRP brass.

2.1385 BTO.

I don’t put any sort of crimp on my rounds, I determine my max OAL by testing what length the rifle no longer set back ammo during the feeding process. I’ll start at max length allowed by the magazine and work back from there.

COAL is around 2.785. Anything longer than 2.795 and I start seeing set back upon chambering.

Thanks.  It's supposed to climb into the 70s later this week. If I can get some rounds loaded, I'll give them a try, but I'm stuck at 100y.

Today's update are some comparisons of Hornady factory 130gr ELD-Ms. I used the Redding instant comparator in it's "field mode" that uses a base cap instead of a shell holder in a press. I took 400rds and measured them for BTO using the RIC. I selected one round and used it as the "zero" and set the comparator based off that round (which by chance measured 2.1800 BTO). I then measured each round and separated them into categories based off their variance from "zero."  Once I finished separating the rounds, I measured the zero round in the Hornady comparator and found it measured 2.1800." I measured five rounds from the "0" section and verified they were correct to 2.1880.  I then measured one of the +1 rounds and confirmed it was correct, then I took a random +8 and measured it to find it too was correct, so I had confidence the comparator worked and I did the testing correctly. I had two differing lots of Hornadys, and I found some boxes were very consistent while others were less consistent to seating depth.  Of the 400rds, there were 5 that fell outside the categories:  one was more than a -3 and four were +10. So, I ended up with this dispersion:

-3 = 2.1770 - 7rds

-2 = 2.1780 - 14rds

-1 = 2.1790 - 37rds

0 = 2.1800 - 47rds

+1 = 2.1810 - 63rds

+2 = 2.1820 - 66rds

+3 = 2.1830 - 43rds - NOTE: This is the BTO my tOBR prefers and groups best.

+4 = 2.1840 - 40rds

+5 = 2.1850 - 45rds

+6 = 2.1860 - 16rds

+7 = 2.1870 - 11rds

+8 = 2.1880 - 6rds

+9 = 2.1890 - 9rds

The next step would be to confirm my rifle's BTO with the 130gr ELDM and then see if the rounds that are over length, can be re-seated to the correct length.  For example, if 2.1830 is to the lands, I would test some to .001, .002 and .003 off the lands to which worked best.

The rounds separated by BTO:



Five of the "0" rounds in the Hornady comparator to verify accuracy:











One of the +1 rounds - accuracy confirmed:



One of the +8 rounds - accuracy confirmed - confidence in the process.



All done!



Scatter chart:

Did I read this right, you got a high and low of:

X.177 and X.189 for a .012 swing above and below your "base" round measurement(X.180).

So in theory you could bump them all to a "closer" seat depth average and possibly see better accuracy? As long as they were within spec to do that.

I believe the answer is "yes."  But there is a caveat in that these were different lots and being commercial, the variables of power load and neck tension are still out of my control.

My 260 chamber (with the 130 ELD-M), measures a BTO of 2.1645.  As such, these rounds can all be re-sized down to 2.1642 - 2.1643 to give me the jump I may need. That just may be tomorrows update.

ETA - Changed BTO to actuals, I forgot the "6."

Just found out Bullets.com is closing.   They have some deals going on, like the darn Redding press I just ordered from Brownells for $289, for $208!  I bought another 200 pieces of Lapua brass and 500 of the Berger 130gr VLDs.

Thanks for the heads up. Ordered 500 pieces of Norma brass for $350 shipped, which is what I normally pay for Hornady brass.

Thanks for the heads up D3 - great price on the Bergers and Lapua

Thx for the heads up D3, good prices.

Anyone still up.... what size bushing for lapua brass?  panhandleprecision.com has a video saying 294 neck diameter (measured both ways, with calipers and neck thickness) for lapua 260 brass, so I'm guessing 291?

I was thinking of picking up some Norma brass, but the only I have is the once fired Prime ammo, so I just bought some more of the Lapua, which was $10 cheaper than the best price I’ve ever seen on it from Mile High when they had a sale for $89 per 100. I’ll give those Berger VLDs a try too.

Glad you were able to score!

I’ll go measure an unfired Lapua case, but YMMV.

I knew there were more than me, wolfmetal, FRBaseball, Dune,  and Mettee in this thread!

I measured the outside of five virgin Lapua .260 cases (unchamfered in or out), the OD was:

0.2900
0.2900
0.2900
0.2895
0.2900

YMMV

@Defender3

Did you see the thread FRBaseball started about the small firing pins in UU kits. You got a 6.5 right, you should check it against the tobr

Thanks but now I'm even more confused, if you were to load these up what bushing would you use?  287?  I can't see that being the right size for lapua brass.

You have to have the range of bushings usually. You could get lucky, but it pays to have several sizes because not all brass is the same and it is always changing.

Also if you are going to use expander balls that plays a part.

Expander Ball Kit

watch the vid.

Try to measure the OD on a loaded case. You take that number and minus off .003, that is usually what you need. You could go up and down one size and get those three

I have a few diff ones for Hornady brass (287/288) I just wouldn't expect it to be the same size for the Lapua.

I haven't been using an expander ball but that's an interesting video that I haven't seen yet, thx.

Mine appear to be both the same, large hole.  For the heck of it, check the revision series on your BGC, both of mine are Rev E.  I'm not aware of any markings on the bolt, but maybe with a small hole, there's a revision marking.

Seems you just got lucky in the bushing game.  I have bushings from 285 - 292. As mettee said, different brass will have different readings and it's best to take a factory loaded round and measure the OD, then go -.003 for a gasser. That should give enough neck tension to handle loading from a magazine, whereas in my bolt gun, I'm trying to get -.001.

I love the smell of MGL in the morning.

Well, I looked at my BCG, no rev on it. But it has been replaced, and I have the oval ejector.

The Rev is laser etched (very small) on the right side of the BCG just where the full weight relief cut starts.

No REV, one of my old ones had it but this one does not.

It's time for today's update, which is a new arrival to the ranch.

What would Edward Avila be sending me?



A pelican case?



Packed by "SA."



Looking good:



What is it?????



Why, it's a Target Vision LR2 that was on sale in the ARF Store!  Just what I need for Quantico since I rarely have a spotter.



Sets up easily using it's own Wi-Fi network to my iPhone / iPad. The camera unit can transmit to 300 yards, and you can use the receiver unit for longer ranges.  It has a HD picture and the frame rate isn't too bad.



Even his night vision so I can spy on the neighbors house 100 yards away.  

Today's update deals with BTO measurements for the Warner Flat Lines, as well as a host of other projectiles.  I wanted to establish BTO first using the Hornady comparator and the Hornady 130gr ELD-M. Hornady makes a curved rod for semi-autos along with a special Hornady cartridge that threads onto the tool.  You then insert a bullet into the cartridge, place it firmly into the chamber, then push a wire lead until the bullet contacts the rifle's lands.  You clamp the wire, remove the tool, then place the cartridge with locked bullet into the comparator to obtain a BTO measurement. An issue is this isn't exact and I obtained different readings each time I conducted the measurement. The good news is I can use it as a starting point and load around the selected BTO to determine performance. After a number of tests, I settled on 2.1645" as the measurement I'll work from for the 130gr ELD-M.











I then pulled my new .260 sparrel and used the straight Hornady comparator tool to see if there was a difference between a pipe with zero rounds and one with 2,000rds. After many tests, I settled on 2.1670 for the new barrel's BTO (picture shows a longer measurement and there were others that were shorter).





I then got distracted before I got to the flat lines.  

Do you have the ability to measure the Hornady modified case against a fired case(from that barrel) to see what the stretch was?

I imagine that you can bring that number in to play when you try different seating depths.

Nice SUURG D3

Yes, I can measure a fired case against the factory.  Not sure of the relevance since it must get stretched during extraction and requires a FL resize, but I'll measure a few.

I'm curious, what kind of COAL did the 2.164-2.167 CBTO yield?

A 2.1670 measurement yielded a COAL of 2.7780.  I have more to do though, I may load a dummy round with a neck tension of .001, load long, and see if I get setback when I chamber a round from the magazine.

ETA - I had previous setback some factory rounds to 2.7995 based off BTO.

Here they are:

Once fired Hornady 130 ELD-M case:



Hornady comparator case:



New (pulled) ELD-M case:

Interesting... so loading to the lands is a trivial matter with the LaRue .260 chamber. I imagine with all the extra space in the LaRue magazine that jamming or at least seriously minimizing jump with most bullets would be possible if you wanted to. I wonder if the short throat might also be a contributing factor to the high pressure you observed with Prime.

Do you by any chance have the modified case to measure your 6.5 chamber as well? I'd be interested to see how they compare, and if the 6.5 throat is super long in comparison, that might be a reason to go with .260 instead when I have the money to pull the trigger on another UU package. Trying to optimize seating depth with some finickier bullets in the fairly long .308 chamber has given me fits at times.

Well, the Prime is loaded to the max for bolt guns.  I was shooting on a hot day, with a hot chamber and a bullet probably jammed into the lands a bit.  I'm thinking those were the reasons the Prime and FGMM shot hot.

I have the case for the 6.5 and will measure when I can.

I wouldnt think the stretch from extraction would be that much, if the timing is right there should be very little resistance to cause that. IF the rifle beats the brass then you may see that when you measure it.

I was thinking it was relevant because typically a fired case needs to be used to measure properly.

I dont have a way to measure the stretch at this time or I would measure it.

It was not a challenge or anything, I was not thinking you could not do it.

I think it has to be measured from the shoulder. Unless they are all trimmed the same that wont show the case stretch I dont think.

If you have a case gauge, you can use that to see how much base hangs out of the gauge vs a new or resized case.

I can only do that with 223 I dont have a 260 case gauge yet.

I measured a 223

In the case gauge I measure 1.766 for a fired case. For an unfired case I measured 1.7565.

So that stretch when fired is close to 0.0095.

When the case is fired the shoulder cant possibly stay where it is, it has to flex under the pressure against the chamber wall along with the rest of the brass, right?

We were talking about the REV on my bcg

I guess she shoots OK...

Rounds 41-60 had an average MV of 2700 with an SD of 20.  Slowly speeding up.

That's an old revision. Round ejector?

Very nice, finally someone gets out to shoot!  You have to tell us more now, range, distance, ammo?

Yes in laws offered to pick up my kid from preschool so I got to sneak out to my work range.  Distance was 100 yards, ammo was factory H130.  I was hoping for a little more speed but it was a little cooler (45deg) outside.

This will have to serve as the official update for today.

I measured the cases using the Hornady comparator.  I zeroed to comparator and then measured the Hornady LNL case, then the new unfired case, then a once fired case.

ETA - Corrected to the right pictures.

Hornady LNL case:



New, unfired Hornady case:



Hornady once fired in the LaRue:

No the bolt is updated

So the hornady grows by 0.0035, and it is 0.0095 from the unfired Hornady to the Hornady modified case, looking like the modified case woud be "tight"? Does it fit in the chamber closed bolt? Your fired case is 1.6225, telling me that is roughly the chamber size, and the mod case is 0.006 bigger/longer...

Maybe we are seeing why the hornady does well in these rifles?

nice chootin