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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/28/2005 10:37:30 AM EDT
With the 30 days between buying handguns, is that only on new guns? Thought I heard somewhere it didnt count on used ones. If a buy a used gun off gunbroker.com does it have to be approved on the CA list?

thanks
jason
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 10:40:06 AM EDT
it applies to used guns also

What it dosent apply to is peron to person transfers, both people must be present.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:02:47 PM EDT
So If I were to buy a 10/22, and 4 days later went down to turners with a friend to buy his Mini14--there would be no wait needed?


Other than the 10 days they hold the gun while the DROS happens, etc...?

Dave
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:14:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CptDlite:
So If I were to buy a 10/22, and 4 days later went down to turners with a friend to buy his Mini14--there would be no wait needed?


Other than the 10 days they hold the gun while the DROS happens, etc...?

Dave



Doesn't apply to rifles only with pistols.

So If I were to buy pistolA, and 4 days later went down to turners with a friend to buy his pistolB there would be no wait needed? Yes
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:18:36 PM EDT
Im not sure what you mean but let me explain my understanding of the law.

When you are purchasing a handgun, you must be purchasing a handgun that is one the list(unless you are doing a private party transfer and both residents must reside in CA). Either way you must wait 10 days before you can get the firearm, and you must wait 30 days(not sure if its 30+10 or just 30 from purchase) until you can buy another HANDGUN. Now you can buy as many rifles as you want, but in order to save the waiting period and dros fees, they must be on the same dros form.

If you choose to buy more than 1 rifle at different times, then you have to pay a dros fee for each different time and must wait 10 days for each.

If I said anything incorrect, please correct me.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:00:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 2:00:53 PM EDT by Nosmik]
A) Multiple rifles on the same day: Yes
B) Pistols: 30 days in between.
C) Pistol and rifle: Same as A

Edit before someone starts asking, always following the 10 day period.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 3:23:27 PM EDT
Just to add, as D-duck mention before, private party transfer does not apply to this one handgun in 30 days period rule. This 30 days rule only apply to dealer sales, new or used.

Example: I am getting rid of all my handguns and you want to buy them all, we can go down to a gun shop to do private party transfer for all handguns in one day. Granted the gun shop will hate our ass for doing that I work at a range that do gun sales so I know. Every PPT paperworks + safe handling demostration takes me at least 45 minutes to complete.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 4:47:18 PM EDT
This is all confussing, so let me say what I know about it:

1. Rifles are unrestriced. While you could walk in and buy 50 rifles at one time, it might look suspicious (like amassing weapons for some illegal activity).
2. No wait period between rifle purchases.
3. Rifle purchases do NOT affect handgun purchase wait period (different from 10 day 'cool down').

4. One handgun per 30 days, does not apply to PPT handguns.***
5. 10 day "cool down" period on ALL firearm purchases.***



*** Current C&R License AND Certificate of Eligibility will remove these two restrictions, except the 10 day "cool down" on Handguns.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 6:59:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
2. No 30 day wait period between rifle purchases.

Fixed
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 8:11:58 PM EDT
How about a CA FFL03 holder going to AZ and purchasing 10 CZ-52 and bring them back?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:17:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:

*** Current C&R License AND Certificate of Eligibility will remove these two restrictions, except the 10 day "cool down" on Handguns.



In that case, there would be no waiting period on a C&R handgun.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:25:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nosmik:

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
2. No 30 day wait period between rifle purchases.

Fixed



I am pretty sure you can walk into the same store as early as 10 minutes after a rifle purchase and purchase another rifle. Of course the 10 day 'cool down' still applies.




Originally Posted By sv_sniper:
How about a CA FFL03 holder going to AZ and purchasing 10 CZ-52 and bring them back?


You just have a time period to register them. I thought it was 16, but I recently heard it was 5 days. Not sure if there is a restriction on the number, but someone was saying they did it with three so I would assume that there isn't one.




Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:

*** Current C&R License AND Certificate of Eligibility will remove these two restrictions, except the 10 day "cool down" on Handguns.





In that case, there would be no waiting period on a C&R handgun.



Nope. In California ALL handguns require the 10 day wait, except under special circumstances like LEO and what not. Even with a C&R and a COE, the FFL can not release the handgun to you until the 10 day 'cool down' when purchasing from a FFL in this state.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:21:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 7:25:40 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:


Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:

*** Current C&R License AND Certificate of Eligibility will remove these two restrictions, except the 10 day "cool down" on Handguns.





In that case, there would be no waiting period on a C&R handgun.



Nope. In California ALL handguns require the 10 day wait, except under special circumstances like LEO and what not. Even with a C&R and a COE, the FFL can not release the handgun to you until the 10 day 'cool down' when purchasing from a FFL in this state.



Sorry, but you are incorrect. A C&R FFL holder with a COE is exempted from the 10 day waiting period, for C&R firearms only, by Penal Code §12078(t)(1).

Here is an excerpt from the DOJ web site:

(t)(1) The waiting period described in Sections 12071, 12072, and 12084 shall not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor, by a dealer or through a law enforcement agency to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 1:34:13 PM EDT
The 30 day between handgun wait only applies to handguns in store inventory, not private party sales. There is no 30 day wait for private party handgun sales. You can buy as many private party handguns as your bank account can stand in any month, but you must do the 10 day DROS wait on each before taking delivery. I think my record was 4 handguns in one month, but 3 of them were private party sales.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 4:50:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 4:51:21 PM EDT by EZsnake]

Originally Posted By CptDlite:
So If I were to buy a 10/22, and 4 days later went down to turners with a friend to buy his Mini14--there would be no wait needed?

Dave



So wait a minute, you're saying that on day 1 you plan to buy a 10/22 for yourself correct? Then, 4 days later go down and buy a Mini14 for your friend? That would be what they call a "straw man" purchase, might want to look that up. Why does your friend not buy his own Mini14?? Or am I missing something
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:51:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 5:51:57 PM EDT by CWM4A1]

Originally Posted By EZsnake:

Originally Posted By CptDlite:
So If I were to buy a 10/22, and 4 days later went down to turners with a friend to buy his Mini14--there would be no wait needed?

Dave



So wait a minute, you're saying that on day 1 you plan to buy a 10/22 for yourself correct? Then, 4 days later go down and buy a Mini14 for your friend? That would be what they call a "straw man" purchase, might want to look that up. Why does your friend not buy his own Mini14?? Or am I missing something



If you are buying Mini 14 for your friend, then that's straw purchase and can get yor in jail. Your friend need to buy his own gun. You don't need to wait any time to buy any amount of rifle/shotgun for yourself at any day. However you still have to wait 10 days to pick them up.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:18:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EZsnake:

Originally Posted By CptDlite:
So If I were to buy a 10/22, and 4 days later went down to turners with a friend to buy his Mini14--there would be no wait needed?

Dave



So wait a minute, you're saying that on day 1 you plan to buy a 10/22 for yourself correct? Then, 4 days later go down and buy a Mini14 for your friend? That would be what they call a "straw man" purchase, might want to look that up. Why does your friend not buy his own Mini14?? Or am I missing something



I believe he is refering to a private sale
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 9:29:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 9:33:49 PM EDT by CWM4A1]
Geez, this is getting out of hand.

Here's the matrix for regular Joes/Janes, not counting FFL or C&R stuff.

----------------------------------DEALER------------------------Private Party Transfer
--------------------handgun(new or used)---Rifle------Hand Gun---------Rifle
10 Days Cool Off------Yes-------------------Yes--------Yes--------------Yes
1 per 30 days----------Yes--------------------No---------No---------------No
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 11:11:47 PM EDT
Ok, I THOUGHT that Handguns were required to be shipped to an FFL and needed to have a waiting period which is why we can't have C&R handguns shipped straight to us C&R holders (the only exception being when we are importing them ourselves).

So after looking I found the section on the 10 day exception to C&R and COE holders (I swear I read that the 10 days still applies to handguns but still can't find it). But I can't find ANYTHING on the handguns shipped to us. In fact, it says that anyone who causes to be imported an unsafe handgun commits a crime, but it lists handguns that are C&R as excepmtions. So why again can't we have pistols mailed straight to us?

I also noticed something niffty: We can't make 80% handguns because they are unsafe, but under section 3 of that paragraph it says it doens't apply to C&R handguns. So does that mean a handgun that is a C&R by model would ok to manufacture?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:59:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
Ok, I THOUGHT that Handguns were required to be shipped to an FFL and needed to have a waiting period which is why we can't have C&R handguns shipped straight to us C&R holders (the only exception being when we are importing them ourselves).

So after looking I found the section on the 10 day exception to C&R and COE holders (I swear I read that the 10 days still applies to handguns but still can't find it). But I can't find ANYTHING on the handguns shipped to us. In fact, it says that anyone who causes to be imported an unsafe handgun commits a crime, but it lists handguns that are C&R as excepmtions. So why again can't we have pistols mailed straight to us?

I also noticed something niffty: We can't make 80% handguns because they are unsafe, but under section 3 of that paragraph it says it doens't apply to C&R handguns. So does that mean a handgun that is a C&R by model would ok to manufacture?



It is not illegal to import a so called "unsafe handgun". It is illegal to import one for sale.

C&R Handguns cannot be shipped directly to a C&R FFL holder because California law requires that all firearms transfers be made through a dealer, with a few exceptions.

It is impossible to make a C&R firearm. Reproductions of C&R firearms are not C&R.

Here is a short synopsis of the California C&R rules.

There is a lot of confusion around concerning the California regulations on C&R Firearms. The first thing to remember is that California, with few exceptions, requires all firearms transfers in the state to be processed through a dealer [Penal Code 12072(d)]. There is no exception for C&R FFL holders. There is however, an exception to the dealer transfer requirement for C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)] This exception is available to anyone legally able to possess firearms. California doesn’t care if you are licensed or not, that’s a Federal matter. The 50 year rifle and shotgun exception is the reason that C&R FFL holders in California can receive these types of firearms directly from an out of state supplier.

The California definition for a C&R firearm is exactly the same as that used by BATF in 27CFR. California references both Title 18 and 27 CFR for the definition. If the Feds say a firearm is C&R, so does the California DOJ.

There are a couple of exceptions to the firearms laws that are available to C&R FFL holders. If the licensee also holds a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from the California DOJ, they are exempt from the 10-day waiting period when buying C&R firearms from a dealer. [PC 12078(t)(1)] The same C&R FFL holder with a COE is also exempt from the one handgun a month law for both C&R and modern handguns. [PC 12072(a)(9)(B)] You also would not need a handgun safety certificate when purchasing C&R handguns. [PC 12807(a)(6)]


Where the C&R FFL comes in handy is when the holder is out of the state. They may purchase any C&R firearm and bring it back to California. The exceptions of course include those “evil” “assault weapons”; and magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds cannot be brought back. Any C&R handguns purchased must be registered with the California DOJ within 5 days and are reported on Form BCIA 4100A along with a $19.00 payment for each handgun. [PC 12072(f)(3)]
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:57:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 4:59:09 PM EDT by NeoWeird]
Thanks, it was that 12078 section 't' that had the info I needed. I spent like 3 hours looking through there for the handgun restriction, and it isn't there.....because handguns are not 'restricted' they are just not part of the 'benefit'.

I new it was illegal to import, just never bothered to look up why.

ETA: I thought there are some firearms that are C&R by configuration. I thought I saw some entries that were like "Hi-Power .38 with single stack magazine and 7 inch slide" I could be wrong, but I THOUGHT I had seen something like that. Of course, there was probably a disclosure at the top that stated that all firearms needed to be manufactured before a certain date.
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