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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/6/2006 11:40:45 AM EDT
I was looking through a C&R dealers web site recently and noticed that under the ordering section, he made an exception...

"No C&R eligible handguns to be sold to Connecticut."

Is this true?

I searched the statutes extensively and only found this tid bit regarding pistol sales and transfers...

Sec. 29-33
(g) The provisions of this section shall not apply to the sale, delivery or transfer of pistols or revolvers between (1) a federally-licensed firearm manufacturer and a federally-licensed firearm dealer, (2) a federally-licensed firearm importer and a federally-licensed firearm dealer, or (3) federally-licensed firearm dealers.

Now the BATFE expressly states that a C&R holder is not authorized to engage in the business of firearms, however, they are holders of a Federal Firearms License.

Anyone know the truth on this?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:50:57 PM EDT
cabinetman will have your answer IM him.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:23:20 PM EDT
I, too, was blindsided about this deal. I'm going to tell you what I understand is the case but I'm saying right now that this information is not written in stone:

If you are a C&R holder in Connecticut and I'm a C&R holder in CT, we can exchange licenses and deal with each other just as normal. However, if I go to purchase a C&R eligible weapons from, say SOG, they are out-of-state FFLs and they can only ship to another 01 FFL in this state and then I can transfer from them to me, but only after obtaining a "sales authorization number" from the state. The same goes if you were to purchase from and individual in or out of state to you. Say you found a nice pistol from Mr. Smith's estate. You'll have to call and obtain the Sales Authorization Number to take it. Here's how the reg reads:

Pistols and Revolvers

Federal Law states you may only buy a handgun in the state in which you reside

You can only buy a handgun in Connecticut, if in addition to being a resident, you have a valid Permit to carry Pistols or Revolvers, a valid Eligibility Certificate, if you are a licensed Firearms Dealer or if you are a Sworn Police Officer.

(Note: They don't mention C&R holders here. I believe that we're being lumped in with this group.)

A DPS-67-C and a DPS-3-C (4 copies) must be completed. The seller of the handgun must contact the Special Licensing and Firearms Unit at (860) 685-8400, or 1-(888) 335-8438 and obtain an authorization number for that sale. This number is to be added to both forms. The DPS-67-C is to be retained by the seller for 20 years. The seller should retain the original copy their records, give one copy to the purchaser as a receipt, submit one copy to the local police authority where the purchaser resides and submit a final copy to the Commissioner of Public Safety.

It would appear that the wonderful days of directly ordering C&R pistols from out of state are at an end at this point. That's why you'll see more and more dealers refusing C&R pistol transfers to our wonderful State along with AK47s and their 7.62 x 39 clones. While I believe that we still can xfer between C&R in state and we CAN still purchase long guns via interstate commerce on our C&R licenses, pistols are now being treated differently.

I would love for someone who is a pro at this to respond and clarify my synopsis.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:08:03 PM EDT
Thanks for that input Cabinetman.

So it would seem that even if a pistol is C&R eligible, it needs to be transfered to a 01 FFL in state before it can be transferred to us, and all state paperwork is the same.

In other words, there is no such thing as C&R pistols in CT?

However, I'm confused by the following statement in your post:

"Federal Law states you may only buy a handgun in the state in which you reside"

If this were true, wouldn't the concept of a 03 FFL in regards to pistols be a mute point?
The idea of getting the 03 FFL is being able to purchase across state lines without going through a local 01 FFL, right?

Again, thanks for your input.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 7:23:46 AM EDT
I think I found my answer:

Sec. 29-36l
(f) Any person, firm or corporation that sells, delivers or otherwise transfers any firearm pursuant to section 29-33 or 29-37a, shall contact the Department of Public Safety to access the database established under this section and receive an authorization number for such sale, delivery or transfer. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to: (1) Any sale, delivery or transfer of an antique firearm manufactured in or before 1898, including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or before 1898; (2) any sale, delivery or transfer of any replica of any firearm described in subdivision (1) of this subsection if such replica uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; (3) transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors, manufacturers or dealers pursuant to 18 USC 921 et seq.; (4) the transfer of firearms to and from gunsmiths for purposes of repair only; and (5) any sale, delivery or transfer of any firearm to any agency of the United States, the state of Connecticut or any local government.

[Emphasis Added]

This would seem to indicate that CT does recognize C&R Handguns and allows for the purchase of such within the bounds of a Type 03 License.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:36:58 AM EDT
A "logical" person would interpret Item #3 to our benefit. However, some states are being much too conservative and are not reading the regs that way. Her'es my take on it.

After doing some additional checking, working C&R to C&R is still an ok way to deal in Connecticut. So, one CT C&R selling something to me (another CT C&R) remains status quo. The same goes for FFL to C&R or C&R to FFL.

However, if I'm a C&R and I come across a pistol from an estate or from a non-C&R seller in Connecticut, I have to obtain an "authorization number" from the State before it can be purchased and logged in. CT wants to know who the seller is, address, and phone number along with some other identification (pistol license or driver's license). Once it's in my possession however, I can deal with another C&R as normal. The same applies to any out-of-state civilian to C&R pistol purchases. In the "old days", just handing the seller my C&R was fine but now we have to get a CT authroization. (I've got a short story about a case I know about below.)

Originally, I, as a C&R holder, was able to just provide a copy of my license to the civilian owner regardless where they lived and that was that. Now it requires that authorization.

Here's why the suppliers are balking.

#3 is being interpreted too conservatitively by out-of-state FFLs. The out-of-state suppliers are assuming that all pistol sales have to be authroized by CT because of what the regs DON'T say. They DON'T say "Any Persons" who are licensed which would indicate that #3 only pertains to in-state purchases. It does not specifically include out-of-state puchases. What #3 should have included some global term that indicated both in and out-of-state persons were eligible. What some suppliers are saying is that since that "global" term is absent from the regulations, it only pertains to CT to CT transfers and NOT out-of-state to CT transfers.

At least that's what I understand as being the case.

The only thing I think that would clear this up is a call to the CSP and asking them if #3 pertains to ALL national FFLs or C&Rs or does it only pertain to those in the State of Connecticut only.

This is just one good example of a typical vaguely written regulation when it comes to firearms. In the current state of affairs with this state, suppliers are just being overly conservative, I believe, but can you blame them?

I'd be curious of your opinion on this.

Now, the story. (sorry for being so long but it's on point). A CT FFL and was offered the chance to purchase some modern (non-C&R) pistols from a private party in Massachusetts. This individual drove the pistols to his shop and the FFL called in for the authorization number to complete the transaction. When the FFL was asked for the ID of the person selling the pistol, and they found out that he was from MASS, the authroization agent wanted to immediately know how the pistol arrived in Connecticut! Fortunately the FFL had the where-with-all to say that he picked it up himself. It caught him completely unawares of the strictness that the State is looking at pistol sales. He would have gone to pick it up himself had he realized what had happened. Essentially, a non-licensed MASS resident had taking a gun to Connecticut without permission or the proper licenses. It would have landed him in hot water for sure.

In my mind one could make the argument that the pistols were being delivered to a valid FFL and one might argure the "peaceable passage" rules since they were being sold but that's not how the State agent interpreted it.

So, pistols are being monitored pretty seriously anymore. It's no wonder that suppliers are being very conservative. It is unfortunate, however, that we're having to "wonder" what the State means in #3, isn't it?

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