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Posted: 10/30/2009 4:41:43 PM EST
Especially in Palm beach county?

I've heard every reason. I'm looking for facts. Reports, memo's, docs whatever evidence as to why ranges have this rule.
I went though all 18 pages & Googled it for a hour & didn't find anything.

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:47:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2009 5:13:10 PM EST by pedro66]
Several reasons

Mostly Money

But more likely the insurance companies only either allow frangible or loads of a known heritage

Also there are EPA issues with lead content in the air and the ability of the extraction system to cope with it so they need to know what is being fired this is mainly on newer ranges with EPA restrictions

I went through all this when we were looking at a tourist range in Vegas for sale when I was involved with HDI

Pete
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:50:19 PM EST
It's BS. It's for the profit plan and simple. Palm Beach Shooting Center allows you to bring in your own ammo now. They decided to do the right thing. They charge a bit more for the range rental than if you buy the ammo from them:

$8.00 range fee with their ammo (no time limit)
$15.00/hr with your own ammo

No reloads or Russian stuff.

I find them the cheapest in the county even with their ammo. Once you get to know the staff they're pretty cool. Like most gun shop people they come across as jerks at first impression. They grow on you and are actually helpful and nice.

JT
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:33:05 AM EST
You entered the wrong search query. It's under "making a business more profitable"

After all, they're in business to make money. Their range, their rules. Don't like it? Find another range.


Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls:
Especially in Palm beach county?

I've heard every reason. I'm looking for facts. Reports, memo's, docs whatever evidence as to why ranges have this rule.
I went though all 18 pages & Googled it for a hour & didn't find anything.

Thanks




Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:52:06 AM EST
They do it because you have jackasses who want to push their reloads to maximum to test the limits of their weapon. If it Ka-Booms on them, it could injure/kill the operator as well as injure/kill innocent bystanders. It also lets the range make more money and at the same time gives the range confidence that people are using good and reliable ammo. It could also be part of their insurance policy as posted above.

Many factors contribute into this. As Monkey said, if you don't like it, go find another range.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:15:19 AM EST
Their Range, Their Rules
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:28:35 AM EST
bc its one less liability they need to worry about if something were to happen.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:43:19 AM EST
Well that's all good, but I'm looking for documented info on why? Is it a county thing imposed? Some letter's or something that establishes a reason.

As I said I heard all sorts of hearsay on why as this thread so far has had.

This is not a complaint thread. I need the info for a project. I have asked other resources as well.

thanks


Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:56:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls:
Well that's all good, but I'm looking for documented info on why? Is it a county thing imposed? Some letter's or something that establishes a reason.

As I said I heard all sorts of hearsay on why as this thread so far has had.

This is not a complaint thread. I need the info for a project. I have asked other resources as well.

thanks




I that case look up the EPA regulations for your county, state, federal.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 7:27:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 7:35:31 AM EST by JohnnyEgo]
You will not find much documentation. I doubt many range owners have written out a formal business plan outlining why and how they make money off of strict controls over rental gun ammo. I can't imagine those who have are likely to share it with you. Where there is writing, and large quantities of it, is in liability contracts and insurance. Again, most rental ranges are not going to provide you with their binder or coverage information. So good luck getting anything in writing.

I wrote a much longer response, then I deleted it. The net reasoning for most things that occur in a rental range is that Americans are a litigious bunch, and the liability risks in operating a rental range are exceptional, making most owners pretty risk averse.

Edit: As I recall, Lockton is one of the more popular brokers for indoor range liability. Perhaps if you asked nice, one of them could provide you with an overview of the criteria of some of the carriers they service.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 7:28:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 7:33:36 AM EST by America-first]
AFAIK the indoor range owners in Palm Beach county got together and decided that's the way they wanted to run their businesses and frankly it doesn't bother me one bit.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:01:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By JohnnyEgo:
You will not find much documentation. I doubt many range owners have written out a formal business plan outlining why and how they make money off of strict controls over rental gun ammo. I can't imagine those who have are likely to share it with you. Where there is writing, and large quantities of it, is in liability contracts and insurance. Again, most rental ranges are not going to provide you with their binder or coverage information. So good luck getting anything in writing.

I wrote a much longer response, then I deleted it. The net reasoning for most things that occur in a rental range is that Americans are a litigious bunch, and the liability risks in operating a rental range are exceptional, making most owners pretty risk averse.

Edit: As I recall, Lockton is one of the more popular brokers for indoor range liability. Perhaps if you asked nice, one of them could provide you with an overview of the criteria of some of the carriers they service.


I could probably get a supplemental application that would give us very good clues as to the underwriting guidelines from one of my E&S broker. My guess is profit+insurance regulations=higher gross profit and lower insurance premiums
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:11:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By nissanfan84:
My guess is profit+insurance regulations=higher gross profit and lower insurance premiums


Beautiful summation. A win-win for the range owner.

Link Posted: 10/31/2009 11:11:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls:
Well that's all good, but I'm looking for documented info on why? Is it a county thing imposed? Some letter's or something that establishes a reason.

As I said I heard all sorts of hearsay on why as this thread so far has had.

This is not a complaint thread. I need the info for a project. I have asked other resources as well.

thanks




It seems to me you are asking the wrong people. Why not contact some ranges and ask them directly?

Unless someone here owns / works for a public range, you're going to get hearsay and anecdotal responses, not "documented info" on this (or any other internet forum) in all probability.

Just a thought.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 11:51:27 PM EST
a few bad apples ruin the bunch. a few weeks ago there was a story in GD about a man who reloaded some hot 5.56, knew it was hot, and proceeded to kaboom his firearm. the shooter was lucky and escaped injury. fortunately no one else was on the range at the time. Had some one else gotten hurt, the range would probably be sued along with the shooter.

it is also a great cash cow. moo
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:38:58 AM EST
Because it is their right to run their business they way they see fit.
If you don't like it, find another place to shoot.
Just that simple.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:38:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 5:26:19 AM EST by America-first]
Originally Posted By jtt1560:
It's BS. It's for the profit plan and simple. Palm Beach Shooting Center allows you to bring in your own ammo now. They decided to do the right thing. They charge a bit more for the range rental than if you buy the ammo from them:

$8.00 range fee with their ammo (no time limit)
$15.00/hr with your own ammo

No reloads or Russian stuff.

I find them the cheapest in the county even with their ammo. Once you get to know the staff they're pretty cool. Like most gun shop people they come across as jerks at first impression. They grow on you and are actually helpful and nice.

JT


The "bit more they charge for range rental than if you buy the ammo from them" comes to $7.00 for the first hour, $22.00 over a 2 hour period and $37.00 if you stay for 3 hours.

Considering the cost and availability of ammo these days, even when you buy it online and pay for shipping, I'd just as soon shoot the range's ammo at a few bucks more a box, pay a flat rate to shoot as long as I want, and keep my own ammo stash in my safe.

Palm Beach Shooting Center is obviously trying to attract those customers who are rabidly averse to being told that, for whatever reason, they must use ammunition purchased at the range they want to shoot at, but nothing is without cost; there is no free lunch.

All businesses are "run for the profit plain and simple", no "BS" is involved, and there is nothing wrong with that.

You pay your money and make your choice.

Welcome to the site.



Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:29:41 PM EST
The reason they make you buy their ammo (at their prices) has everything to do with profit ($$$) and nothing to do (in reality) with anything else. They also do it for the same reason that dogs lick themselves... because they can!. If there are enough customers that will pay the freight at their inflated prices, there is no reason to charge less... and therein lies the rub...

When the economy was good, they were all doing it and thus maximizing profit... in bad economic times, recreational activities are the first to get chopped out of the budget. Watch - one will cut the requirement in order to attract more customers... if it works, others will follow suit or perish.

Every outdoor range that I know of will let you bring and shoot anything you like at no additional charge. Unfortunately, the number of outdoor ranges is limited and none (which allow pistols) are close to central PB County... The Sheriff's Office range at 20 mile bend is centrally located and a nice, relaxed range but they don't allow the public to shoot pistols at their range (it's "long guns only")...
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