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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/30/2005 1:50:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2005 2:00:09 PM EDT by AR15fan]
It's summer time, schools out and lots of kids are going to Mexico. Therefore I am seeing a ton a basically good kids getting arrested for petty weapons violations.

In Cali it is illegal to carry a switchblade knife on your person or in the passengers compartment of a vehicle. CPC 653k is a misdemeanor that you will usually be ticketed for, but can be taken to jail for. Get yourself a nice Spyderco or Benchmade instead of that POS Chinese switchblade you are considering bringing back from Tijuana.

Brass knuckles are a felony here, CPC 12020, and you will be booked into the County jail. Even if you "bought them to made a belt buckle" for your white pleather belt you stole from you sister for the straight edge party. By the way, does you little sister know you are wearing her pants? Get yourself a D cell mag light for your car instead.

Batons or Billy clubs, including ASPs, tire knockers, fish billys, ect are also a felony. Again, get yourself a D cell mag light, a can of OC spray and a Spyderco instead. If you find yourself stopped by the police in possession of a club type weapon and the police ask you why you have it the wrong answer is " For protection" or "because some guys are after me." The correct answer is "it's just a flashlight sir" "its a fish billy sir" "it's a tire knocker sir" The section of law you are worried about is "the manner in which it is used defines the tool."

If you find yourself arrested for CPC 653k you are looking at about a $100.00 fine and a year informal probation most places. If you find yourself arrested for brass knuckle or a billy club you will be booked for the felony, but the DA will let you plead to a misdeanor. Again you are looking at a small fine, and probation. However, a term of your probation is likely to be "possess no weapons." You will also have search & seizure terms, which means the cops can search you, your car, or your house whenever they want to, for any reason at all, during your probation. So unless you want to lock up your guns in a storage locker for 1- 3 years during your probation, dont carry brass knuckles, billy clubs, and switchblades in public!
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 3:12:15 PM EDT
What's the law for ownership of those items, like in your home?

Also a popular item I saw when I was in Tijuana a few years ago was butterfly knives.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 5:33:48 PM EDT
I thought switch blades, butterfly knives, brass knuckles, billy clubs, etc were illegal, in public or not. Just the impression I was under though, so I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 10:25:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2005 10:30:14 PM EDT by Mauser101]
Most officers don't know the knife laws very well.


653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's
area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells,
offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in
length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length
and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means
that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver
and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.



A 1.9" switchblade that was made in California is legal Federally and State....ically.

EDIT: Granted, if you buy a 1.9" switchblade and it said "Made in Anything But USA" that's a dead giveaway. I'm also not away of any switchblade manufacturers in Cali.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 6:04:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:
What's the law for ownership of those items, like in your home?

Also a popular item I saw when I was in Tijuana a few years ago was butterfly knives.



Butterfly knives are "switchblades" under cali law.

Switchblades are only illegal to possess in public or in the passenger compartment of the vehicle.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 6:05:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
Most officers don't know the knife laws very well.


653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's
area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells,
offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in
length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length
and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means
that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver
and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.



A 1.9" switchblade that was made in California is legal Federally and State....ically.




Yep, although i cant imagine why you would want the little itty bitty thing.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 10:47:04 PM EDT
This is interesting. How about expandable baton (ASP) at home? I know baseball bat may be a be a better choice (My SIG P228 will be my first choice, by the way), just curious to know.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 11:11:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CWM4A1:
This is interesting. How about expandable baton (ASP) at home?


Technically a felony since CPC 12020 bans possession of "billy clubs."

Hard to imagine a scenario where an otherwise law abiding person would be arrested for one in their home though.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:48:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 9:49:28 AM EDT by CWM4A1]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Technically a felony since CPC 12020 bans possession of "billy clubs."

Hard to imagine a scenario where an otherwise law abiding person would be arrested for one in their home though.



When this otherwise law abiding person beat the crap out of a home intruder with an ASP instead of baseball bat or a 2x4

Thanks for clarification.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:54:39 AM EDT
What about one of those youth sized baseball bats?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:33:22 AM EDT
So is it illegal to have a switchblade knife sitting on the table in front of you in a restaurant?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:49:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 11:51:13 AM EDT by Mauser101]

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
So is it illegal to have a switchblade knife sitting on the table in front of you in a restaurant?



1.9" or less and made in California? Can't see there being a problem unless it's between you and the manager of the store. He'd probably just ask you to put it away or leave his store.

Otherwise you're looking at " any public place or place open to the public" which would put you under CPC 653k.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:33:59 PM EDT
interesting...............very interesting......
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:03:47 PM EDT
OK so I'm gonna get some OC spray for my car and wife's car. What's the scope on brand to pick/place to buy?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:12:05 PM EDT
Oh I have a question! But it's to do with Pepper spray (sorry if this is a hijack). Got some for my friends and gave them out - they are Fox pepper sprays with no Tear gas - problem is I got them out of state and I read somewhere that the sprays need a california warning label which they lack. Am i breaking the law?
Funny thing is I live in a university dorm, and pepper spray doesn't seem to be considered a weapon - checked all the laws and while knives are restricted I couldn't find anything restricting pepper spray (tear gas is a no no). Too many laws!
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:21:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteveSatch:
OK so I'm gonna get some OC spray for my car and wife's car. What's the scope on brand to pick/place to buy?



Steve,
I have had good results with First Defense brand. Get the stream version, not the mist/spray version though.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:06:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Yute:
Oh I have a question! But it's to do with Pepper spray (sorry if this is a hijack). Got some for my friends and gave them out - they are Fox pepper sprays with no Tear gas - problem is I got them out of state and I read somewhere that the sprays need a california warning label which they lack. Am i breaking the law?
Funny thing is I live in a university dorm, and pepper spray doesn't seem to be considered a weapon - checked all the laws and while knives are restricted I couldn't find anything restricting pepper spray (tear gas is a no no). Too many laws!



Probably for the sake of the ladies. Pepper spray is a very popular product for women who have to walk around by themselves (late classes on campus, coming back from the TKE frat party).
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:45:43 AM EDT
i was in mexico several years back (pre 9/11) and the weapons were a dime a dozen. i remember trying on some "brass" knuckles. they were made out of aluminum and spray painted a goldish color. a good pleathora of cheap switch blades, communist built butterfly knives. i have always wondered why law makers thought that butterfly knives were so evil, i found that i can open my smith and wesson tactical knife with a flip of the wrist much quicker than a butterfly....

prk laws....
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:50:16 PM EDT
as a cop why would you enforce such a stupid law on a otherwise law abiding citizen?
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:39:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
as a cop why would you enforce such a stupid law on a otherwise law abiding citizen?



As i have already stated, otherwise law abiding citizens are unlikely to find themselves in a situation where CPC 12020 or 653k is an issue.

Even you use of the of the term "citizen" demonstrates your ignorance of the realities of southern California law enforcment. The vast majority of people I arrerst are not citizens and never will be.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:00:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
I'm also not away of any switchblade manufacturers in Cali.



Theres a small shop in Visalia that make autos under the Smith & Wesson name. They also make 1.5" autos there also that are sold all over in the gun shows
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:56:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
as a cop why would you enforce such a stupid law on a otherwise law abiding citizen?



As i have already stated, otherwise law abiding citizens are unlikely to find themselves in a situation where CPC 12020 or 653k is an issue.

Even you use of the of the term "citizen" demonstrates your ignorance of the realities of southern California law enforcment. The vast majority of people I arrerst are not citizens and never will be.



Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:11:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 5:12:58 AM EDT by tatsuosan1964]

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
as a cop why would you enforce such a stupid law on a otherwise law abiding citizen?



I'm really surprised about this question. A Peace Officer has taken an oath to Uphold the Law, not interpret it. That would be up to the courts to decide. Yes there is some level of discretion and "Selective" enforcement but if you are violating the law by carrying a pipe that has tape around one end for a handle, which would be an obvious attempt to make a homemade billy club, you are no longer the law abiding citizen you speak of. How does the LE who has never met you before know that you are an all around good guy, an otherwise law abiding citizen? AR15fan is being kind and downplaying with the fact that many that he comes into contact with may not be citizens but the reality of it is that LE comes into contact with every facet of society. Some good, some bad. When they come across some crimes, they often enforce them, whether or not they agree with the law or not. I in fact expect them to do their jobs and enforce the law in the Spirit of the law, not necessarily by the letter of the law. A simple contact where you called the police to complain about idiots driving fast down your neighborhood streets could go against your favor if you had a pair of brass knuckles sitting on a desk for a paper weight sitting in plain view while the officer is listening to your complaint. Do we expect LE to pick and choose who they arrest and for what crimes? To some extent yes, and they are given some latitude by law and policies to use such discretion but then again, how are they supposed to know the good guys from the bad guys if the good guys are doing the same things as the bad guys?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 10:59:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 11:00:50 AM EDT by Mauser101]

Originally Posted By prisner4jc:
i was in mexico several years back (pre 9/11) and the weapons were a dime a dozen. i remember trying on some "brass" knuckles. they were made out of aluminum and spray painted a goldish color. a good pleathora of cheap switch blades, communist built butterfly knives. i have always wondered why law makers thought that butterfly knives were so evil, i found that i can open my smith and wesson tactical knife with a flip of the wrist much quicker than a butterfly....

prk laws....



Butterfly knives, switchblades and other items are illegal when thumb openers and walking sticks are not for the same reason that AWs became illegal whereas a Savage .223 rifle did not. One looks ebil or has been made to look ebil by movies and one has not.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:01:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
as a cop why would you enforce such a stupid law on a otherwise law abiding citizen?



As i have already stated, otherwise law abiding citizens are unlikely to find themselves in a situation where CPC 12020 or 653k is an issue.

Even you use of the of the term "citizen" demonstrates your ignorance of the realities of southern California law enforcment. The vast majority of people I arrerst are not citizens and never will be.



Ok now i think i get your drift, IMHO its not hard to tell the shitbags from the honest yet ignorant citizens.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 10:47:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tatsuosan1964:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
as a cop why would you enforce such a stupid law on a otherwise law abiding citizen?



I'm really surprised about this question. A Peace Officer has taken an oath to Uphold the Law, not interpret it. That would be up to the courts to decide. Yes there is some level of discretion and "Selective" enforcement but if you are violating the law by carrying a pipe that has tape around one end for a handle, which would be an obvious attempt to make a homemade billy club, you are no longer the law abiding citizen you speak of. How does the LE who has never met you before know that you are an all around good guy, an otherwise law abiding citizen? AR15fan is being kind and downplaying with the fact that many that he comes into contact with may not be citizens but the reality of it is that LE comes into contact with every facet of society. Some good, some bad. When they come across some crimes, they often enforce them, whether or not they agree with the law or not. I in fact expect them to do their jobs and enforce the law in the Spirit of the law, not necessarily by the letter of the law. A simple contact where you called the police to complain about idiots driving fast down your neighborhood streets could go against your favor if you had a pair of brass knuckles sitting on a desk for a paper weight sitting in plain view while the officer is listening to your complaint. Do we expect LE to pick and choose who they arrest and for what crimes? To some extent yes, and they are given some latitude by law and policies to use such discretion but then again, how are they supposed to know the good guys from the bad guys if the good guys are doing the same things as the bad guys?



12020 p.c. being a felony wobbler, I would say that an officer has no discretion in enforcement.

653k is a misdemeanor, however, and the officer can disregard it if (s)he chooses.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 3:27:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
12020 p.c. being a felony wobbler, I would say that an officer has no discretion in enforcement.

653k is a misdemeanor, however, and the officer can disregard it if (s)he chooses.



Every agency is different. I can look the other way on everything but Domestic Violence, Elder Abuse, and Child abuse if i chose too.
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