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Posted: 3/24/2006 3:23:25 PM EDT
Hi,

Last time I visited family out in California, I wasn't much involved in firearms. Didn't even own one, if I figure correctly.

Anyway, I'm flying out and was considering bringing my CCW piece with me.

Couple of questions for you all:

1. While I would never, ever break the law, I've heard that CCW, 1st offense, in CA is only a misdemeanor.
2. Will there be any problem having a nightstand gun in Sacramento area
3. If I take the train from Sacramento to San Fran, is my (a) person or (b) luggage screened or searched?
4. Are >10 round magazines illegal for me to bring into the state, even temporarily as a non-resident?
5. Finally, will I run into an problems at the airport in Sacramento checking my pistol to go home as long as I declare everything properly? (I ask, because in NYC you will be arrested.)


I may think of others and update the original post. Alternatively, if you think of anything important that I missed, please let me know.

Thanks, and I am looking forward to visiting your beautiful state again.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 3:38:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jblachly:

1. While I would never, ever break the law, I've heard that CCW, 1st offense, in CA is only a misdemeanor.



It can be a misdemeanor. One of the prerequisites for that is that the gun is "properly registered" to you, which it won't be, since you aren't a CA citizen.


2. Will there be any problem having a nightstand gun in Sacramento area


No.


3. If I take the train from Sacramento to San Fran, is my (a) person or (b) luggage screened or searched?


Probably not... but if they're looking for someone who matches your description...


4. Are >10 round magazines illegal for me to bring into the state, even temporarily as a non-resident?


Absoliutely. Felony.


5. Finally, will I run into an problems at the airport in Sacramento checking my pistol to go home as long as I declare everything properly?


Doubtful... but, then again, all it takes is one clueless cop. You'll sit in jail while everything is sorted out, and you won't even get an apology afterwards.


Thanks, and I am looking forward to visiting your beautiful state again.


You're clearly insane.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:18:57 PM EDT
Put your pistol in your suitcase before you get to the airport. When you check in, DO decalare your firearm. I have had to open the gun to show it was empty (not loaded). store ALL your ammo in a separate container. Act like you do it all the time. Better yet, dissassemble your pistol (if an auto) before you pack it in your suitcase. MAKE SURE you have a lock on the case, it looks better. That way when they ask you to show it to the tickect agent, you have to unlock the case to show them a disasssembled pistol. Really, don't screw around with this, as you can wind up sitting around for days while they try to find something that you did wrong.

In PRK the first offense for non-permitted CAN be a misdemernor, but thats not what you will be charged with. For it to be a misdemeanor, you have to NOT know that it was illlegal to carry concealed.

On to the good news: if you are a white, normal guy, the chances that you will ever be searched are so low that you ca really get away with murder here. I grew up in SoCal, and because I never gave the cops lip, or reason to bother with me, I have never had my person or car searched. I got a ticket for an open conatiner once, and they never even looked at anything other than my ID. IF you don't look like a gang member or an illegal alien then you will never get a second look from the PD. They have much better things to do than search upstanding citizens. If on the other hand, you dress like you live in tthe Ghetto, and wear Bling-Bling jewlrey, and speed down the highway in your lowrider, you WILL get stopped and searched. Its usually the nail sticking up that gets hammered.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:52:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photog:

On to the good news: if you are a white, normal guy, the chances that you will ever be searched are so low that you ca really get away with murder here. I grew up in SoCal, and because I never gave the cops lip, or reason to bother with me, I have never had my person or car searched. I got a ticket for an open conatiner once, and they never even looked at anything other than my ID. IF you don't look like a gang member or an illegal alien then you will never get a second look from the PD. They have much better things to do than search upstanding citizens. If on the other hand, you dress like you live in tthe Ghetto, and wear Bling-Bling jewlrey, and speed down the highway in your lowrider, you WILL get stopped and searched. Its usually the nail sticking up that gets hammered.



so true, people are so paranoid.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 11:48:52 PM EDT
And if you behave yourself and stay out of areas and situations that most sane people avoid you almost certainly won't need a ccw. There is a very minor chance that trouble might come to you but for the most part, unless you are really in a low rent district, that doesn't happen. Yes it's possible that something might happen, but the odds are astronmically low. Much more likely to be hit by a car, an earthquake, get a bad burrito, etc.

If you absolutely positively can't go out with a ccw, then be smart about it.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 12:18:56 AM EDT
One thing you may want to also consider, if I remember hearing/reading right, even though it will most likely be a misdemeanor your pistol still gets confiscated. So while yes you get fined a couple hundred bucks, you coudl also loose that ~$1k piece permanently. I could be wrong, I just vaguely remember that coming up when people started talking CCW a while ago.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:49:05 AM EDT
If the gun is not DROSed (Dealer Record of Sale, effectively registration) to you, CCW charges today are likely to be initially filed as felony/felonies (concealable gun, loaded concealable gun are often filed together).

For most folks (except those who were here and moved away and then moved back) this will not be the case, since DROSing is for CA residents from CA gun dealers.

If for whatever reason you feel you have to CCW in CA without approval, ensure you are a resident and that the gun being CCW'd is papered to you (i.e., not inherited paper-free back in the 80s, etc.)

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:54:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photog:
Put your pistol in your suitcase before you get to the airport. When you check in, DO decalare your firearm. I have had to open the gun to show it was empty (not loaded). store ALL your ammo in a separate container. Act like you do it all the time. Better yet, dissassemble your pistol (if an auto) before you pack it in your suitcase. MAKE SURE you have a lock on the case, it looks better. That way when they ask you to show it to the tickect agent, you have to unlock the case to show them a disasssembled pistol. Really, don't screw around with this, as you can wind up sitting around for days while they try to find something that you did wrong.

In PRK the first offense for non-permitted CAN be a misdemernor, but thats not what you will be charged with. For it to be a misdemeanor, you have to NOT know that it was illlegal to carry concealed.




First offense for Illegal CCW is a misdemeanor unless the defendant is a documented criminal street gang member or the gun is not registered to the defendant. You can be booked into jail for it or the cops can give you a ticket for it.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 9:33:28 AM EDT
It's a shame that my CCW permit is recognized in so many parts of the country -- but not others.

It's a REAL shame that an honest citizen (that's me) just trying to be cautious could get slapped with a felony for doing something perfectly legal in most of the United States.

OH well.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:37:09 PM EDT
Not that I would recommend anybody to be the test case, but if your pistol is "Properly registered" to you in your home state, I really doubt any DA is going to want to pursue that. If it isn't properly registered, then I expect that they could get away with that clause here, seeing as you couldn't argue that it was "properly registered".
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 10:39:40 AM EDT
Pistols are only registered in a half dozen states or fewer IIRC.

And definitely not around these parts.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 1:27:59 PM EDT
If you need a sidearm with you, just keep it to <10 round capacity, keep it in a locked container, and have a speedloader/magazine in another bag.


To keep from scaring the sheep too much, bring a revolver or something.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:35:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jblachly:
Pistols are only registered in a half dozen states or fewer IIRC.

And definitely not around these parts.



Michigan
California
NYC
LasVegas NV
???
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:55:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Not that I would recommend anybody to be the test case, but if your pistol is "Properly registered" to you in your home state, I really doubt any DA is going to want to pursue that.




Incorrect.
The standard is not 'properly registered' in general, but specifically DROSed to you.
And 'wobblers' are often charged as felonies that take extra effort (lawyers) to get hammered down to misdemeanors - esp in metro areas.


12025.
(b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is punishable, as follows:
....
....

(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031
(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.



Bill Wiese
San Jose

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:26:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By jblachly:
Pistols are only registered in a half dozen states or fewer IIRC.

And definitely not around these parts.



Michigan
California
NYC
LasVegas NV
???



That's all I could come up with. I wasn't sure about Illinois. In MO and NC you h ave to have a permit to buy a pistol but as I understand it the pistol is not "registered" to you on any paperwork with the state.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:37:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bwiese:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Not that I would recommend anybody to be the test case, but if your pistol is "Properly registered" to you in your home state, I really doubt any DA is going to want to pursue that.




Incorrect.
The standard is not 'properly registered' in general, but specifically DROSed to you.
And 'wobblers' are often charged as felonies that take extra effort (lawyers) to get hammered down to misdemeanors - esp in metro areas.


12025.
(b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is punishable, as follows:
....
....

(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031
(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.



Bill Wiese
San Jose




Then that means that any out of state resident carrying their own pistol is going to be charged as a felony, because there is no possibility that a legally owned pistol from out of state is going to be "Properly registered" with the CA DoJ. And also many of us have legally possesed pistols from before the period that required registration. That is fraught with Due process and equal protection issues. And as an aside anybody that tells out of staters that they get a misdemeanor on the first go around is giving hellaciously BAD information out.

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:02:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Then that means that any out of state resident carrying their own pistol is going to be charged as a felony, because there is no possibility that a legally owned pistol from out of state is going to be "Properly registered" with the CA DoJ.



Not quite. Since 1998, folks moving into CA are obligated within 60 days to complete a mandatory DOJ form, "New Resident Handgun Ownership Report" and pay $19. This creates a DROS record and the gun is registered to you. Folks that moved into CA before that didn't have to this, but they could voluntarily register.


And also many of us have legally possesed pistols from before the period that required registration. That is fraught with Due process and equal protection issues.


Yes, so if someone's gonna do 'permit-free CCW', it would be wiser for him/her to carry a DROSed or registered gun.

Equal protection issues? Naaah. Especially when the option to register is available for handguns that are pre-'98 imports, are pre-1991 legal paper-free private handgun transfers, etc.


And as an aside anybody that tells out of staters that they get a misdemeanor on the first go around is giving hellaciously BAD information out.


Hmmm. I thought that was what your comment was ;) :


Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Not that I would recommend anybody to be the test case, but if your pistol is
"Properly registered" to you in your home state, I really doubt any DA is going
to want to pursue that



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