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Posted: 9/29/2005 1:58:37 PM EDT
Hi folks. Been reading these forums for a few weeks, and finally decided to sign up. Seems like a pretty good community! Got a few questions :

1) Recently picked up a flyer for an October 8/9 gun show at the Price William County Fairgrounds. Anyone been to this show before? Good show? Bad show? Craptastic?

2) What is the deal with the 30 day waiting period for handguns? I have only purchased a few pistols in Virginia, the most recent one on Sept. 19. I have never purchased a firearm at a gun show. I do not have a CCL, which from what I hear, does away with the 30 day wait. Would I be able to purchase a pistol at the show on Oct. 8/9? Does the 30 day wait apply to ALL pistol purchases or just purchases from stores. I guess I am unsure if purchasing from a show falls under face to face rules . Umm...I hope that made sense. hanks
headbang.gif
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 2:24:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 3:42:23 PM EDT
The show is run by the Gun Collectors Association and is the first time that it is to be held in Manassas. Previously it was held at Hugo's but I doubt that this will have any effect on whom shows up. The show is not bad and does have a larger share of private sellers as well as small time dealers thus you have a better chance of trading.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:12:08 PM EDT
Thanks for the info.

Guess I should buckle down and take the concealed class over at the NRA. Negating the once every 30 restriction seems like just one of many good reasons to get a permit.

Maybe I will just save some coin. Or then again, maybe I will find a nice shotty at the show....

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:12:39 PM EDT
Technically, you can only buy one handgun every 30 days, without a CHL. That means from any source. That being said, you could always say the one you just got was bought more than 30 days ago. Illegal, yes. And since you plastered the date (Sep 19, I believe) all over the web, I would wait the 30 days.

Just a thought.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:03:03 AM EDT
+1 on what gunnut said.
Also you don't have to take the NRA concealed carry course. If you are a veteran and have your DD214 with firearms qualifications on it, that will suffice for proof of training. You can also take a couple hour course from any NRA certified instructor. If you have had any hunter training that will also suffice. Get the CHP, it's a good investment and it isn't difficult to obtain.

And welcome aboard....2 and a wake up....
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:13:35 AM EDT
I thought the law says you MUST buy a pistol every 30 days.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 3:08:21 AM EDT
you guys still have a 30day waiting period thats nuts, im very sorry to hear that. when we did away with ours I bought two the same day Now stop buying up all our land
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 8:03:01 AM EDT
It's not a "30 day waiting period" it's a "one gun a month" rule. If you buy one handgun, you cannot buy another within 30 days. The theory is that it makes "straw purchases" more difficult.

In other words, rather than actually having to do any real police work in investigating crimes and prosecuting criminals, they prefer the token effort of making it harder for law abiding citizens to exercise their rights. Plus they get the added bonus of being able to charge innocent citizens who are unaware of the law with "gun crimes" and increase their conviction rates without the hazards of actually apprehending any dangerous criminals.

It's a win-win for the jackbooted thugs. Plus, most people, even gun owners, don't get too excited about the law because they can't afford more than one gun a month anyway.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 11:52:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sailorcurt:
It's not a "30 day waiting period" it's a "one gun a month" rule. If you buy one handgun, you cannot buy another within 30 days. The theory is that it makes "straw purchases" more difficult.

In other words, rather than actually having to do any real police work in investigating crimes and prosecuting criminals, they prefer the token effort of making it harder for law abiding citizens to exercise their rights. Plus they get the added bonus of being able to charge innocent citizens who are unaware of the law with "gun crimes" and increase their conviction rates without the hazards of actually apprehending any dangerous criminals.

It's a win-win for the jackbooted thugs. Plus, most people, even gun owners, don't get too excited about the law because they can't afford more than one gun a month anyway.



And the only ones who follow this is us. The bad guys can buy as many guns anytime they want. Why oh why does anyone not see this when they make dumb laws like this.
It does nothing but hurt someone who might want to own more than one gun for whatever reason they have. Its their right.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 5:24:18 PM EDT
You can buy more than 1 handgun every 30 days without a CHL, but the FFL can only transfer 1 every 30 days. So if you find that rare 1917 Colt 1911 and just bought a Kel-Tec the day before, you can pay for the Colt. You have to wait until the 31st day to complete the 4473/state paperwork though. Only works at gunstores with "layaway" or that are honorable. Not sure about trusting a roving gunshow vendor though. This applies to FTF transfers as well. The only proof you have is that bill of sale you got.

Also remember that if you have a CHL permit and buy more than 1 handgun in a 5 day period, your weapons will be "registered" with the ATF. The ffl must fill out a mulitple purchase form with your height, weight, race, address, name, social, birth day, birth place, make, model, caliber and serial numbers and fax the form the the ATF by the end of the business day. You will not be informed of this unless the dealer is cool and likes you. It is not required to communicate this to the individual. I always worn my guests that this form will be completed and "advise" them to wait 6 days.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 6:39:19 PM EDT
archtaan with a conceled carry permit you can buy as many guns as you want. no time limit. i have bought 3 handguns in 30 days and 2 of them were 2 days apart and my ffl does like me because i bring in more business for him. so i am sure he would have told me if any of my guns had to be "registered". collecting any info like that is against the law. that would be firearms tracking and thats a no no. the only records that are kept are by the ffl holder. and as far as ftf deals no record means you never bought the weapon, just make sure at some point it was registered in va, or to be on the safe side get a bill of sale and go have it registered in your name. so my recomendation is to at least just take a hunters ed class and apply for your ccp, pay the fees and wait. thats it and you can now carry and purchase anytime you want.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 8:51:16 PM EDT
I know that you can purchase all the handguns you want with a CCW permit, and you are correct about paperwork(or the lack off) during a FTF. I just suggest a bill of sale to protect you and the seller.

Here is the problem that I was talking about. The ATF is full of loopholes.

Here is what is happening.
*Either your dealer is not telling you he is filling out the forms.
*Your dealer does not know about the forms and will have to go back through the A&D book to correctly fill out the forms the next time he gets audited.
*Your dealer does not care and likes fines and gov. heat.

From the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide

§ 178.126a Reporting multiple sales or other disposition of pistols and
revolvers.

Each licensee shall prepare a report of multiple sales or other
disposition whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of, at one
time or during any five consecutive business days, two or more pistols, or
revolvers, or any combination of pistols and revolvers totaling two or
more, to an unlicensed person : Provided, That a report need not be made
where pistols or revolvers, or any combination thereof, are returned to
the same person from whom they were received. The report shall be
prepared on Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of
Pistols and Revolvers . Not later than the close of business on the day
that the multiple sale or other disposition occurs, the licensee shall
forward two copies of Form 3310.4 to the ATF office specified thereon and
one copy to the State police or to the local law enforcement agency in
which the sale or other disposition took place. Where the State or local
law enforcement officials have notified the licensee that a particular
official has been designated to receive Forms 3310.4, the licensee shall
forward such forms to that designated official. The licensee shall retain
one copy of Form 3310.4 and attach it to th e firearms transaction record,
Form 4473, executed upon delivery of the pistols or revolvers.
Example 1. A licensee sells a pistol and revolver in a single
transaction to an unlicensed person. This is a multiple sale and must be
reported not later than the close of business on the date of the
transaction.
Example 2. A licensee sells a pistol on Monday and sells a revolver
on the following Friday to the same unlicensed person. This is a multiple
sale and must be reported not later than the close of business on Friday.
If the licensee sells the same unlicensed person another pistol or
revolver on the following Monday, this would constitute an additional
multiple sale and must also be reported.
Example 3. A licensee maintaining business hours on Monday through
Saturday sells a revolver to an unlicensed person on Monday and sells
another revolver to the same person on the following Saturday. This does
not constitute a multiple sale and need not be reported since the sales
did not occur during five consecutive business days.
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