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Posted: 8/29/2005 8:25:49 PM EDT
Could somebody in the KNOW tack a post on the class III requirement in NC? I can't seem to get a clear answer from anybody, including the Wake County Sheriff's department, for God's sakes!!

I wish to purchase a 13in barreled upper for an FAL. I'm have a LLC in NC. I know there are two ways to go a bout it on the Form 4
1. As an individual which require CLEO sign-off;
2. Through the corporation which would not, by my understanding, require CLEO sign-off.

Is this correct? Is it even "legal" in NC is have an SBR (ie. is there a State Law that supercedes Federal laws)

Thanks in advance. I'm hoping the experience in the hometown forum can straighten this out for me.

Charlie
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:10:05 PM EDT
SBR will be up to your local CLEO. You can also go the corperation route. Machineguns on the other hand, are aparantly a no no. Cabarrus County's CLEO, I'm told, will not sign off on SBR's. Your county's CLEO may have a different opinion.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:44:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 11:52:17 PM EDT by Galland]
I'd try the CLEO route before going through the corporate route. A CLEO sig never expires or requires one to spend more money on the costs associated with maintaining an LLC. It can't hurt to ask. It might help to point out the fact that you can go the corporate route if he refuses to sign. Tell him (even if it is a load of BS) that you asked him first because you respect his authority and want to be a responsible citizen, or some such horse hockey like that.

Machine guns are a no-no only because the NC DA has told CLEOs not to sign off on them. It is still 100% legal for CLEOs to sign. Unfortunately many CLEOs are political animals with a good instinct for diplomatic survival in the upper pecking order. Of course they're elected to office in NC- they can be sent packing if they go too far. Unfortunately for the Constitution, NFA issues is one of those things the public generally doesn't care about.

Galland
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:05:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:12:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By threefiftynone:
KnobCreek,

I replied to your email and gave you a free bump here. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I will see this post and give you an answer.

I lost all my links with my last Format C:

Tim



I'm still holding out for that one person who's in the know. Please know, I've doen my homework on this before posting....read the NC gun statutes, call the Sherriff's depart. etc. Nothing is clear after having sought these sources. It's seems like the answer should be simple, if I can just get one. My concern in all this is simple: I have more interest in not being a Class I felon than I do in obtaining an SBR
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:46:38 AM EDT
I have studied the NC's statutes on NFA weapons in hopes of reforming them.

Any Other Weapons are not mentioned in NC law at all- period.

Machineguns are covered by a 1933 statute in the law.


All the other NFA weapons are covered under this statute (EXCEPT AOWs):

14‑288.8. Manufacture, assembly, possession, storage, transportation, sale, purchase, delivery, or acquisition of weapon of mass death and destruction; exceptions.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to manufacture, assemble, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to purchase, deliver or give to another, or acquire any weapon of mass death and destruction.

(b) This section does not apply to:

(1) Persons exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269 with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties.

(2) Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses.

(3) Persons under contract with the United States, the State of North Carolina, or any agency of either government, with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in under their contracts.

(4) Inventors, designers, ordnance consultants and researchers, chemists, physicists, and other persons lawfully engaged in pursuits designed to enlarge knowledge or to facilitate the creation, development, or manufacture of weapons of mass death and destruction intended for use in a manner consistent with the laws of the United States and the State of North Carolina.

(c) The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" includes:

(1) Any explosive or incendiary:

a. Bomb; or

b. Grenade; or

c. Rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces; or

d. Missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one‑quarter ounce; or

e. Mine; or

f. Device similar to any of the devices described above; or

(2) Any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell of a type particularly suitable for sporting purposes) which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one‑half inch in diameter; or

(3) Any firearm capable of fully automatic fire, any shotgun with a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any rifle with a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such firearm is included within this definition. For the purposes of this section, rifle is defined as a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; or

(4) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any weapon described above and from which a weapon of mass death and destruction may readily be assembled.

The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" does not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line‑throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of Title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes, in accordance with Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

(d) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class F felony. (1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1975, c. 718, ss. 6, 7; 1977, c. 810; 1983, c. 413, ss. 1, 2; 1993, c. 539, s. 1228; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001‑470, s. 3.)


Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:57:12 AM EDT
CRC,
I've read this information, too. What does or should it mean to me in my QUEST to obtain an SBR under my LLC?

It says
"
14‑288.8. Manufacture, assembly, possession, storage, transportation, sale, purchase, delivery, or acquisition of weapon of mass death and destruction; exceptions.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to manufacture, assemble, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to purchase, deliver or give to another, or acquire any weapon of mass death and destruction."


Which EXCEPTION allows me or other that have SBRs, to not be out of compliance. Is it #2 since I would have the Tax Stamp and ATF approvals?

I truly feel like an idiot on this one. I normally don't have problems understanding the written language like I'm having now.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:33:00 PM EDT
State law says you can own it under the NFA.

So now it's just up to your CLEO to sign off.

CRC
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 3:46:55 PM EDT
CRC,
Thanks a lot. One last question: If the SBR is registered under my LLC, does this negate the requirement for CLEO sign-off? I just want to make sure. It's not the route I prefer to take but.....
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:33:02 AM EDT
The CLEO sig is the linchpin for Class III.
Not sure about the corp route but here is what I have been told by NFA owners in NC:

Read the state law carefully, paricularly the parts about "defending a business" or for the use in "scientific or experimental purposes".

I have been told that if a proposal is well written regarding the intended use falling into the latter category above that some CLEOs will sign off. So therefore, you intend to conduct a "study" and perhaps publish your results or submit your data to some agency or institution...

I have just written the Sheriff in Charlotte where I hear it is impossible to acquire NFA weapons
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 7:06:03 AM EDT
2xTap.

Did you send in the letter with your Form 4/Form 1, or was it a letter asking for an opportunity to meet with him to discuss? I spoke with the BATF yesterday and the guy there said that NC class III access is totally dependent on which county you live in. Unfortunately, the Raleight, Durham, Charlotte, and Greenboro areas can be difficult due to politics.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 1:11:07 PM EDT
I did not include a completed form 4 but made some gentle points about NFA ownership and basically asked for approval to "proceed" with an NFA acquisition. I guess I already conceded that I could not get one but wanted a response that includes his justification.
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