That's right! Our first communist since reconstruction, just declared a state of emergency and used his powers to freeze gas prices at their current levels. In Cobb county that is $3 for a gallon of gas. In other parts around the City of Atlanta that means $4, $5, or $6 dollars for a gallon of gas!!!!

Doesn't our illustrious communist understand that prices would have come down tomorrow once everybody saw how foolish they were acting!

Quoted: That's right! Our first communist since reconstruction, just declared a state of emergency and used his powers to freeze gas prices at their current levels. In Cobb county that is $3 for a gallon of gas. In other parts around the City of Atlanta that means $4, $5, or $6 dollars for a gallon of gas!!!! Doesn't our illustrious communist understand that prices would have come down tomorrow once everybody saw how foolish they were acting!

OMG WTF is this asshole doing. He just ENSURED we're going to run out of gas. The rest of the country is at $3 no one is going out of their way to ship here. Stupid fucking fuck has no fucking idea what he just did.



We're fucked by a socialist Republican governor. He just showed his true color - RED.

With the rest of the shit in my life right now I was not counting on the SHTF.



ETA: PERDUE IS A SHIT-SUCKING COMMUNIST

Quoted: Quoted: That's right! Our first communist since reconstruction, just declared a state of emergency and used his powers to freeze gas prices at their current levels. In Cobb county that is $3 for a gallon of gas. In other parts around the City of Atlanta that means $4, $5, or $6 dollars for a gallon of gas!!!! Doesn't our illustrious communist understand that prices would have come down tomorrow once everybody saw how foolish they were acting! OMG WTF is this asshole doing. He just ENSURED we're going to run out of gas. The rest of the country is at $3 no one is going out of their way to ship here. Stupid fucking fuck has no fucking idea what he just did. We're fucked by a socialist Republican governor. He just showed his true color - RED. With the rest of the shit in my life right now I was not counting on the SHTF. ETA: PERDUE IS A SHIT-SUCKING COMMUNIST

But................................but...............................who will take care of the sheeple if not for our friend BIG gubernment. You could hear the collective cheer bah from the masses when the news went out.


Obviously free markets can't really adjust on their own so BIG gubernment HAD to step in and 'correct' the situation.

PERDUE IS A SHIT-SUCKING COMMUNIST

Preach it brother!

By freezing gas prices in Ga makes Him a communist then you REALLY need some help.
There was no other way for him to stop the price gouging.  There's no law in Ga on the books for
that.  There are for hotels and such but not gas.  And indeed we are in trouble due to two
pipelines that one has no power and the other they arn't even sure what the hell is wrong with it yet.
I think I will choose a price freeze till supply comes back online than get raped from some rage head.

wolf

Quoted: I think I will choose a price freeze till supply comes back online than get raped from some rage head. wolf

WTF is a "rage head"?

err rag head sorry.

Quoted: That's right! Our first communist since reconstruction, just declared a state of emergency and used his powers to freeze gas prices at their current levels.

Anyone have any source for confirmation on this?  I'm scouring the wires and simply not finding it.  The only thing I can find is that he eased restrictions on when gasoline can be transported and delivered...

Quoted: err rag head sorry.

Oh, so it was just a dumb-ass racist remark. Figures.

As a added bonus to the convo here, Fox had the CEO of BP on.  He basically said
that "with a smile none the less" that prices will keep going up until demand goes down.
yes that makes sense but don't put your fuck smart ass smile on my TV, telling me your
just going to keep raping me just cause you can.

God I hate BP
wolf

Yup sure was.  

wolf

Quoted: As a added bonus to the convo here, Fox had the CEO of BP on.  He basically said that "with a smile none the less" that prices will keep going up until demand goes down. yes that makes sense but don't put your fuck smart ass smile on my TV, telling me your just going to keep raping me just cause you can. God I hate BP

Newsflash, chief: Your local BP might not even be buying their gas from a BP distributor, but from an Exxon/Mobil distributor!  Gas stations buy their gas where they can get it for the cheapest the soonest.  They aren't required to stay brand-loyal.  That's why that stupid "Boycott Exxon/Mobil" e-mail you've been passing around to your AOL buddies list won't work.

And unless you are Mr. Dirt-Worshipping McTree-Hugger driving an all-electric or renewable fueled vehicle, you can quit your goddamn bitching about gas prices because you are a part of the fucking problem.  Sit down, shut up, take your $6 a gallon gas prices and soldier up with the rest of the world that's been doing it for years.

Quoted: By freezing gas prices in Ga makes Him a communist then you REALLY need some help. There was no other way for him to stop the price gouging.  There's no law in Ga on the books for that.  There are for hotels and such but not gas.  And indeed we are in trouble due to two pipelines that one has no power and the other they arn't even sure what the hell is wrong with it yet. I think I will choose a price freeze till supply comes back online than get raped from some rage head. wolf

Respectfully wolf, you're a good guy and there is no clan warfare between us I'm aware of:

There is only a problem with 10 percent of the supply right now. The governor just turned it into a problem with 100 percent of the supply.

Answer this: if gas is selling at $3.20 in TN, and there's a price freeze in GA at $3, out of 100 tankers full of fuel in TN how many are going to drive to GA to deliver their gas at a guaranteed loss? None.

The governor has perpetuated a panic situation that would have bled itself out by Friday. Now we are fucked for the whole weekend. I'd have liked to drive to the range, but since there's NO gas instead of just expensive gas I'm fucked.

Yes the governor is a communist. He struck his colors, and I see him now for the wretch that he is. It's time there was some bloodletting in the Republican party here. Too many closet liberals for my taste.

Perdue has turned out to be just another Barnes. Another case of there being no difference between a Dem and a Rep.  Fuck 'em both!  

I repeat: where is everyone seeing confirmation that he's fixed prices?  Nothing on the news wires, nothing on wsbradio.com, nothing on AJC.com, nothing!  Are we starting our own rumors now?!?

Edit:  Is everyone referring to this, where he says he'll enact a anti-price-gouging law?  That ain't price fixing, folks!



\/\/\/\/\/\/ I'll get to you in a moment.

Quoted: Quoted: As a added bonus to the convo here, Fox had the CEO of BP on.  He basically said that "with a smile none the less" that prices will keep going up until demand goes down. yes that makes sense but don't put your fuck smart ass smile on my TV, telling me your just going to keep raping me just cause you can. God I hate BP Newsflash, chief: Your local BP might not even be buying their gas from a BP distributor, but from an Exxon/Mobil distributor!  Gas stations buy their gas where they can get it for the cheapest the soonest.  They aren't required to stay brand-loyal.  That's why that stupid "Boycott Exxon/Mobil" e-mail you've been passing around to your AOL buddies list won't work. And unless you are Mr. Dirt-Worshipping McTree-Hugger driving an all-electric or renewable fueled vehicle, you can quit your goddamn bitching about gas prices because you are a part of the fucking problem.  Sit down, shut up, take your $6 a gallon gas prices and soldier up with the rest of the world that's been doing it for years.

Thats pretty damn funny since I one am not a tree hugger, and two don't know anything about some email AOL email going around.  And if I want to bitch I can and will.  And lastly Thank GOD I was never  a Chief.

ETA I'm fully aware that they can get gas from just about any company,  I just don't like BP, wasn't speaking of the all the stations themselves.  But when your at the counter and you hear the manager saying were going to 3.60 gal for whats left in out tanks which will net us almost 1 per gallon of profit
thats what I don't like.  Everyone has to make money but raping the pubilc for any reason I have a problem with.

wolf

And if I want to bitch I can and will.

Whoa, looks like we've got a 6-year mental level here, folks!

You aren't bitching, you are bleating.  Your bleary-eyed whimperings mean nothing because you are doing fuck-all about the situation.  Gas costs too much!  It should be cheaper!  I want to commute to work in my new SUV!  Whine whine, bitch bitch, it's too hot, it's too cold, I don't like dicks in my mouth, that's all we ever hear you say, you racist asshole.

lol  6-year mental level, Now thats funny.  Actually this gas thing is the only thing I have ever bithed about.  If you consider that being "all we ever hear from you" in a time from of 12 hours then its not me that has issues.

wolf

FWIW,

If the Gov't really wants to help, they could waive the Fed tax on gas for the next couple of weeks. From what I hear, the tax is around 30%, so just today, they made several million $$ in GA alone.

Waive the gas taxes until things stabilize, and everyone will relax with prices back at $2 a gallon.



On the other hand, I think it's good for the country. We are a spoiled bunch of fat cats, and even the most liberatarian of us thinks we deserve our blessings, or at least rarely appreciates all that we have.. When we have to face how we're gonna afford the gas to get to work, we'll realize what we hold valuable. Some of you may already get it, but too many don't.

Reject,
The only way (legally) Sonny could regulate (cap) the gas prices in the state of GA was by declaring a "State of Emergency". Here is the story on AM-750:
Gas Prices


JoeWang,
Thanks for the economic lesson Wolf so desperately needed!

Wolf,
Why do you hate BP? BP is one of the few companies that does not buy a majority of their oil from the middle east...........which means our money does not go to terrorists.

By freezing gas prices in Ga makes Him a communist then you REALLY need some help.

Hmmmm..............you apparently haven't been paying attention to what our illustrious "governor" has been doing, during his first and hopefully only term in office!

Accountant

Quoted: Reject, The only way (legally) Sonny could regulate (cap) the gas prices in the state of GA was by declaring a "State of Emergency". Here is the story on AM-750: Gas Prices

Thanks, I've read that, but it says NOTHING about fixing prices, just prosecuting gas stations that attempt to "price gouge" consumers.

Example of a price fix:  Gov. Perdue says all stations cannot sell regular unleaded for more than X amount per gallon.

What Gov. Perdue is REALLY doing: Will eventually get around to prosecuting gas stations that have been reported by consumers as gouging prices on gasoline.

Georgia has anti-gouging laws for hotel rooms, but not for gasoline.  So he signed an executive order making price gouging on gasoline illegal.  That's not price fixing.

Quoted: Reject, The only way (legally) Sonny could regulate (cap) the gas prices in the state of GA was by declaring a "State of Emergency". Here is the story on AM-750: Gas Prices JoeWang, Thanks for the economic lesson Wolf so desperately needed! Wolf, Why do you hate BP? BP is one of the few companies that does not buy a majority of their oil from the middle east...........which means our money does not go to terrorists. By freezing gas prices in Ga makes Him a communist then you REALLY need some help. Hmmmm..............you apparently haven't been paying attention to what our illustrious "governor" has been doing, during his first and hopefully only term in office! Accountant

I didn't say everything else makes him a communist, I said what you quoted above.  I don't care for him much either but he did what was needed this time.  As far as economic lesson I needed.
Prices are going up in TN as well.  Ga has always had lower gas prices than just about anywhere in the east coast.  But raping us is a whole different story.  And yes I still hate BP but that’s a personal thing.
I can deal with prices going up but 2 dollars + in a few hours, and per “reject” I should "Sit down, shut up, take your $6 a gallon gas prices and soldier up with the rest of the world that's been doing it for years".  
Ok I can do that but don't shove it down in 2 hours.  The fact is we have gas for atleast 10 days so the Gov says, one of the pipelines should be pumping gas to us by friday.  
I just can not stand Gas stations that take advantage of their customers.  When you’re standing there in the store and listing to the manager speaking in Arabic thinking no one can understand him but the other store employees talking and laughing about making over a 1 profit due to the "fear" of shortage is just plain wrong.  
Apparently at least how it was described on 750 a few ago is, its not a price freeze but a freeze on how much profit the station can charge over the cost of fuel they pay.  So that clears things up on that point.


Wolf

Quoted: When you’re standing there in the store and listing to the manager speaking in Arabic thinking no one can understand him but the other store employees talking and laughing about making over a 1 profit due to the "fear" of shortage is just plain wrong. Wolf

You speak Arabic?

Let me begin by saying:
1. I am hopefully a future gas station owner
2. I am Indian
3. English is my first language because I was born in Alabama
4. I believe in the economic system implemented by the US
5. I believe in zero/minimal involvement by the government in American business
6. I do not speak Arabic, but I do speak Hindi, Gujarati, a little Urdu, a little Spanish, and a little Bulgarian.

I resent the statement made by Wolf, however I understand he is an ignorant individual and couldn't tell the difference between an Indian and a Iraqi. If people such as Wolf feel that rag heads are price gouging there are enough white/black owned and operated gas stations to patron in Georgia. Let me know what area you live in so I can find you one.
I'm truly offended by Wolfs comment because he doesn't simply imply Muslims when he says Rag Head, he isn't that educated, he implies brown people in general. What Mr. Wolf does not realize is that some of those people he calls Rag Heads, aka Indians, have been fighting militant Islamists for more than 60 years (60 years is my reference mark because that's when my Grandfather transitioned from the British Army to the Indian Army) while the US government has blocked and in some cases helped those same militants.

My father who owns a gas station in Alabama bought 18000 gallons of gas for $5000 cash and that's what he sold it at $3.60 a gallon. And people were still coming into the store and cussing him out, if it was me (HK21 with 200 round belt inserted and hanging on the wall)  I honestly don't know what I would do, deny them gas or charge them extra. As far as I know there are NO Indian/Paki/Arabic owned gas distributors in Georgia or Alabama, and if you're truly looking for someone to complain to about these current gas price go complain to them.

I believe in the laws of supply and demand in chaos or in order, sometimes there is a little more chaos in the world and those people who are simply not ready for it will complain and they should lose. If the majority of people want to be dependent on the government to bail them out of problems I guess that is the way it is going to be, but I believe that is also what the Romans wanted towards the end too. I guess I'm just glad that I speak more than one language and can readjust into another society with minimal resistance.
That is just my .02 and I'd rather not leave a bad taste in anyones mouth, but if it does oh well.

Let me begin by saying: 1. I am hopefully a future gas station owner 2. I am Indian 3. English is my first language because I was born in Alabama 4. I believe in the economic system implemented by the US 5. I believe in zero/minimal involvement by the government in American business 6. I do not speak Arabic, but I do speak Hindi, Gujarati, a little Urdu, a little Spanish, and a little Bulgarian. I resent the statement made by Wolf, however I understand he is an ignorant individual and couldn't tell the difference between an Indian and a Iraqi. If people such as Wolf feel that rag heads are price gouging there are enough white/black owned and operated gas stations to patron in Georgia. Let me know what area you live in so I can find you one. I'm truly offended by Wolfs comment because he doesn't simply imply Muslims when he says Rag Head, he isn't that educated, he implies brown people in general. What Mr. Wolf does not realize is that some of those people he calls Rag Heads, aka Indians, have been fighting militant Islamists for more than 60 years (60 years is my reference mark because that's when my Grandfather transitioned from the British Army to the Indian Army) while the US government has blocked and in some cases helped those same militants. My father who owns a gas station in Alabama bought 18000 gallons of gas for $5000 cash and that's what he sold it at $3.60 a gallon. And people were still coming into the store and cussing him out, if it was me (HK21 with 200 round belt inserted and hanging on the wall) I honestly don't know what I would do, deny them gas or charge them extra. As far as I know there are NO Indian/Paki/Arabic owned gas distributors in Georgia or Alabama, and if you're truly looking for someone to complain to about these current gas price go complain to them. I believe in the laws of supply and demand in chaos or in order, sometimes there is a little more chaos in the world and those people who are simply not ready for it will complain and they should lose. If the majority of people want to be dependent on the government to bail them out of problems I guess that is the way it is going to be, but I believe that is also what the Romans wanted towards the end too. I guess I'm just glad that I speak more than one language and can readjust into another society with minimal resistance. That is just my .02 and I'd rather not leave a bad taste in anyones mouth, but if it does oh well.

Easy...........easy there!

Now, this is a PC free zone where we GA members can get together and bitch about shit going on here in our state. You have every right to call Wolf.......well, whatever you want to.........and he has every right to do the same........but, do NOT let your feelings get hurt, because Wolf may be the man who is helping you next week! Or you maybe be the man helping him.

A few off color remarks don't mean shit! So please don't take them that way!! We welcome everybody to this board and their opinions.


CSR. Thank You, for your families service to the war on terror!!!
Now, can we get back to the task at hand?????? That would be helping our fellow Americans, who have suffered.....and are currently suffering due to this great tragedy. Please donate to the Red Cross and the Salvation Army.

Accountant






ETA: You have an HK21 and haven't come to a group shoot yet??? You know.........you can be banned for that!!!

Yeah I realize this is really a place that PC doesn't matter, and honestly I just feel I don't contribute here as much as I'd like too. But honestly after the 10 phone calls from my father this afternoon because of people bitching about gas prices and blaming him this just didn't fit right to end the day on. I apologize but it's an overall rant about the day, and not only about what Wolf said but that was the topping on the cake

I'm much more of a hands on helper, I'm down for maybe getting a Georgia ARF crew together and help rebuild some houses down there or something like that?

also ETA: I actually have the 21 in my living room, but the paperwork on my sear is in ATFs wonderland somehwere. I was out at the last shoot HKPRO did in Madison where a fellow Georgian had a sear and we got the 21 working (well at least partly so; we couldn't get a decent belt out of the thing).

Quoted: Yeah I realize this is really a place that PC doesn't matter, and honestly I just feel I don't contribute here as much as I'd like too. But honestly after the 10 phone calls from my father this afternoon because of people bitching about gas prices and blaming him this just didn't fit right to end the day on. I apologize but it's an overall rant about the day, and not only about what Wolf said but that was the topping on the cake I'm much more of a hands on helper, I'm down for maybe getting a Georgia ARF crew together and help rebuild some houses down there or something like that? also ETA: I actually have the 21 in my living room, but the paperwork on my sear is in ATFs wonderland somehwere. I was out at the last shoot HKPRO did in Madison where a fellow Georgian had a sear and we got the 21 working (well at least partly so; we couldn't get a decent belt out of the thing).

CSR, let me put it this way in no uncertian terms.  I have spent almost half my life in and out  ofthe  3rd worlds etc.
I am an EOR "equal Opportunity Racist ".  If it had been some white guy I would have come up with a name for him, black guy just the same.  If my remark offends you then I'm sure you will get over it.  I'm not a PC guy, never have been and never will be. I will say exectly how I feel and sometimes its blunt.  None the less I'm sure there are rag heads"iraq's" Afstan's, Indian's and Iranians hell I will even throw in some Asians in here, not that I have ever seen a state side Asians gas station clerk   that have tried their best to make things fare.  But today with what I saw and heard,  and let me point out, at ONE gas station,  was so wrong in so many ways its not even funny. It REALLY made me mad. I will never go there again.  Not that you would care or maybe you would,

My remark wasn't directed to you or your dad, it was directed to those at that station.  If you feel that I'm ignorant individual and couldn't tell the difference between an Indian and a Iraqi your sorely wrong.  Hell I will help just about anyone out in time of need.  People that know me also know that I'm about as race nutural as it gets.  If your screwing people no matter what color its wrong.  If you had come on here bitching about some white trailer trash cracker doing what I said,  I wouldn't have gotten "offened" I would have been at your back.  Saying  ya thats really fucking wrong etc.  Thats the difference apperently.  
The Gas station just up the street from me is run by a Indian "red dot".  He's a great guy
and hell I'm one of his best customers so he says cause I always buy alot of stuff from him every week.  He counts on it.  His prices are alittle higher than some "walmart" but I'm more than happy to help him make ends meet.  But laughing about screwing people because you "can" just isn't right.


wolf

Quoted: That's right! Our first communist since reconstruction, just declared a state of emergency and used his powers to freeze gas prices at their current levels. In Cobb county that is $3 for a gallon of gas. In other parts around the City of Atlanta that means $4, $5, or $6 dollars for a gallon of gas!!!! Doesn't our illustrious communist understand that prices would have come down tomorrow once everybody saw how foolish they were acting!

You got to be kidding.  He did not freeze prices, he is just going after price gougers.  He said they know how much these stations paid for their gas and will be going after those that shot up to $4, $5, and $6.

If going after criminals makes him a communist, so be it.  Maybe we need another Dem who would let them fuck us over.

OK, class...........it's time for your daily lesson!



Supply and Demand

Understanding the laws of supply and demand are central to understanding how the capitalist economy operates. Since we rely on market forces instead of government forces to distribute goods and services there must be some method for determining who gets the products that are produced. This is where supply and demand come in. By themselves the laws of supply and demand give us basic information, but when combined together the are the key to distribution in the market economy... price.

What is demand?

Demand is comprised of three things.

Desire
Ability to pay
Willingness to pay
It is not enough to merely want or desire an item. One must show the ability to pay and then the willingness to pay. If all three conditions are not me then the demand is not real. This, by the way, is the purpose of advertising. While many may want a product it is quite another to be willing to pay. Advertising attempts to move a consumer from mere want to action. These day even condition two may not stand in the way of a consumer. With the advent of credit cards we are able to purchase products without the current ability to pay. Many stores and car dealers even offer on the spot credit though the interest rate may be quite high.

What factors alter your desire, willingness and ability to pay for products? Some factors include consumer income, consumer tastes the prices of related products like substitutes for that product of items that may complement that product.

Marginal utility - extra satisfaction a consumer gets by purchasing one more unit of a product.

Diminishing Marginal Utility: The more units one buys the less eager one is to buy more. Think of diminishing marginal utility this way. It is a hot summer day and your sweating bullets. You come across a lemonade stand and gulp down a glass. It tasted great so you want another. This second glass is marginal utility. But now you reach for a third glass. Suddenly your stomach is bloated and your feeling sick. That's diminishing marginal utility!

There are two types of changes in demand:

Changes in demand - change in the demand for a product that occurs when price drops.

Changes in the Quantity Demanded - change in the amount of a product demanded regardless of price.

The difference is subtle but important. If the demand of ice cream goes up in the summer it is because consumers demand has truly increased, clearly it is hot. In the case the business can most likely raise prices without suffering a drop in sales. This is a change in quantity demanded. If sales of ice cream were to increase in January as a result of a price cut, however, the information we would be receiving is that the demand was artificially manipulated. It really tells us that actual demand is low and that extra efforts had to be made to increase sales. This is change in demand.

When there is a change in amount purchased (tied to demand) due to lower prices and surplus spending money it is called the income effect. Income effect basically happens when salaries are on the rise.

Another economic phenomenon tied to demand is Substitution Effect. This states that as prices drop consumers will buy more than usual at the expense of a different product. Take a sale at the mall for example. If jeans are on sale for a great price consumers will by extra jeans even if they had previously planned to buy something else. This is that great deal you just cannot pass up. What would the opportunity cost be? That item you passed up and substituted for.



The Law of Demand:

quantity demanded in inversely proportional to price.

Simply put, the higher the price, the lower the demand and the lower the price, the higher the demand.

In numbers it would look like so:


Demand Schedule for Cookies



At a price of         Consumer will buy  
.70 cents               100 cookies  
.60                          200
.50                          400
.40                          700
.30                          1,100
.20                          1,600
.10                           2,300


Economists also like to look at things graphically. It enables us to see the quantity and price on a limitless scale. To do this we plot what is known as a demand curve. The price is always on the vertical axis and the quantity is always on the horizontal axis. If we were to plot our points and draw a demand curve for the cookies it would look like this:






The Law of Supply-

Quantity supplied is directly proportional to price.

Clearly the law of supply is the opposite of the law of demand. Don't these both make sense to you? Consumers want to pay as little as they can. They will buy more as the price drops. Sellers, on the other hand, want to be able to charge as much as they can. They will be willing to make more and sell more as the price goes up. This way they can maximize profits.

Numerically a supply schedule would look like this:


Supply Schedule for Cookies



At a price of               Sellers will offer  
.70 cents                    2,000 cookies  
.60                               1,800
.50                               1,600
.40                               1,400
.30                               1,100
.20                               700
.10                               100


The accompanying supply curve would be drawn like so:




Market or Equilibrium Price

Now that we have covered both demand and supply we have to combine both together. The place where what sellers are willing to sell for and buyers are willing to buy for is called market or equilibrium price. This is the price the product will sell for. Price is negotiation between the buyers and the sellers.

To figure out price one has to law the supply and demand next top each other.


Supply and Demand of Chocolate Chip Cookies



Students will buy        At a price of               Sellers will offer  
100                                .70 cents                     2,000
200                                 .60                              1,800
400                                 .50                               1,600
700                                 .40                               1,400
1,100                              .30                               1,100
1.600                               .20                               700
2,300                               .10                               100


When we then plot and draw both curves together we are able to see the market price of the product.




The market price for cookies in this graph is 30 cents. The quantity sold and bought is 1100 cookies.



WHY PRICES ARE IMPORTANT IN A MARKET ECONOMY

Prices are key ingredients in our economy because they make things happen. If buyers want to own some items badly enough, they will pay more for them. When sellers want to sell some items badly enough, they will lower their prices. Prices play such an important role in economic life that the United States is often described as a price-directed market economy. Let us see why.

1. Act as Signals to Buyers and Sellers. One of the things that prices do is carry information to buyers and sellers. When prices are low enough, they send a "buy" signal to buyers (consumers), who can now afford the things they want. When prices are high enough, they send a "sell" signal to sellers (retailers), who can now earn a profit at the new price.

2. Encourage Efficient Production. Prices encourage business people to produce their goods at the lowest possible cost. The less it costs to produce an item, the more likely it is that its producers will earn a profit.

Firms that are efficient will produce more goods with fewer raw materials than firms that are inefficient. Producers strive for efficiency as a way of increasing their profits. While these efforts are in the best interests of the sellers, all of us may benefit because we are provided with the things we want at lower costs.

3. Determine Who Will Receive the Things Produced. Finally, prices help to determine who will receive the economy's output of goods and services. The price that a worker receives for doing a job is called a wage. The amount of this wage determines how much the worker has to spend. What the worker can buy with those wages will depend, in turn, upon the prices of the goods and services the worker would like to own.

If going after criminals makes him a communist, so be it. Maybe we need another Dem who would let them fuck us over.

They are NOT criminals! They were doing exactly what they should have. By raising prices they were slowing demand........this would ensure that there would be enough gas for everyone! Because if you don't NEED gas today, why would you pay $5 dollars a gallon for it! Think about it!

Nobody's fucking you............except yourself!



Lesson over,
Accountant



PS: I copied that from a 7th GRADE textbook! Damn public schools.

Man, I'd hate to be around you guys if something really serious happened!

Quoted: OK, class...........it's time for your daily lesson! Supply and Demand Understanding the laws of supply and demand are central to understanding how the capitalist economy operates. Since we rely on market forces instead of government forces to distribute goods and services there must be some method for determining who gets the products that are produced. This is where supply and demand come in. By themselves the laws of supply and demand give us basic information, but when combined together the are the key to distribution in the market economy... price. What is demand? Demand is comprised of three things. Desire Ability to pay Willingness to pay It is not enough to merely want or desire an item. One must show the ability to pay and then the willingness to pay. If all three conditions are not me then the demand is not real. This, by the way, is the purpose of advertising. While many may want a product it is quite another to be willing to pay. Advertising attempts to move a consumer from mere want to action. These day even condition two may not stand in the way of a consumer. With the advent of credit cards we are able to purchase products without the current ability to pay. Many stores and car dealers even offer on the spot credit though the interest rate may be quite high. What factors alter your desire, willingness and ability to pay for products? Some factors include consumer income, consumer tastes the prices of related products like substitutes for that product of items that may complement that product. Marginal utility - extra satisfaction a consumer gets by purchasing one more unit of a product. Diminishing Marginal Utility: The more units one buys the less eager one is to buy more. Think of diminishing marginal utility this way. It is a hot summer day and your sweating bullets. You come across a lemonade stand and gulp down a glass. It tasted great so you want another. This second glass is marginal utility. But now you reach for a third glass. Suddenly your stomach is bloated and your feeling sick. That's diminishing marginal utility! There are two types of changes in demand: Changes in demand - change in the demand for a product that occurs when price drops. Changes in the Quantity Demanded - change in the amount of a product demanded regardless of price. The difference is subtle but important. If the demand of ice cream goes up in the summer it is because consumers demand has truly increased, clearly it is hot. In the case the business can most likely raise prices without suffering a drop in sales. This is a change in quantity demanded. If sales of ice cream were to increase in January as a result of a price cut, however, the information we would be receiving is that the demand was artificially manipulated. It really tells us that actual demand is low and that extra efforts had to be made to increase sales. This is change in demand. When there is a change in amount purchased (tied to demand) due to lower prices and surplus spending money it is called the income effect. Income effect basically happens when salaries are on the rise. Another economic phenomenon tied to demand is Substitution Effect. This states that as prices drop consumers will buy more than usual at the expense of a different product. Take a sale at the mall for example. If jeans are on sale for a great price consumers will by extra jeans even if they had previously planned to buy something else. This is that great deal you just cannot pass up. What would the opportunity cost be? That item you passed up and substituted for. The Law of Demand: quantity demanded in inversely proportional to price. Simply put, the higher the price, the lower the demand and the lower the price, the higher the demand. In numbers it would look like so: Demand Schedule for Cookies At a price of         Consumer will buy   .70 cents               100 cookies   .60                          200 .50                          400 .40                          700 .30                          1,100 .20                          1,600 .10                           2,300 Economists also like to look at things graphically. It enables us to see the quantity and price on a limitless scale. To do this we plot what is known as a demand curve. The price is always on the vertical axis and the quantity is always on the horizontal axis. If we were to plot our points and draw a demand curve for the cookies it would look like this: The Law of Supply- Quantity supplied is directly proportional to price. Clearly the law of supply is the opposite of the law of demand. Don't these both make sense to you? Consumers want to pay as little as they can. They will buy more as the price drops. Sellers, on the other hand, want to be able to charge as much as they can. They will be willing to make more and sell more as the price goes up. This way they can maximize profits. Numerically a supply schedule would look like this: Supply Schedule for Cookies At a price of               Sellers will offer   .70 cents                    2,000 cookies   .60                               1,800 .50                               1,600 .40                               1,400 .30                               1,100 .20                               700 .10                               100 The accompanying supply curve would be drawn like so: Market or Equilibrium Price Now that we have covered both demand and supply we have to combine both together. The place where what sellers are willing to sell for and buyers are willing to buy for is called market or equilibrium price. This is the price the product will sell for. Price is negotiation between the buyers and the sellers. To figure out price one has to law the supply and demand next top each other. Supply and Demand of Chocolate Chip Cookies Students will buy        At a price of               Sellers will offer   100                                .70 cents                     2,000 200                                 .60                              1,800 400                                 .50                               1,600 700                                 .40                               1,400 1,100                              .30                               1,100 1.600                               .20                               700 2,300                               .10                               100 When we then plot and draw both curves together we are able to see the market price of the product. The market price for cookies in this graph is 30 cents. The quantity sold and bought is 1100 cookies. WHY PRICES ARE IMPORTANT IN A MARKET ECONOMY Prices are key ingredients in our economy because they make things happen. If buyers want to own some items badly enough, they will pay more for them. When sellers want to sell some items badly enough, they will lower their prices. Prices play such an important role in economic life that the United States is often described as a price-directed market economy. Let us see why. 1. Act as Signals to Buyers and Sellers. One of the things that prices do is carry information to buyers and sellers. When prices are low enough, they send a "buy" signal to buyers (consumers), who can now afford the things they want. When prices are high enough, they send a "sell" signal to sellers (retailers), who can now earn a profit at the new price. 2. Encourage Efficient Production. Prices encourage business people to produce their goods at the lowest possible cost. The less it costs to produce an item, the more likely it is that its producers will earn a profit. Firms that are efficient will produce more goods with fewer raw materials than firms that are inefficient. Producers strive for efficiency as a way of increasing their profits. While these efforts are in the best interests of the sellers, all of us may benefit because we are provided with the things we want at lower costs. 3. Determine Who Will Receive the Things Produced. Finally, prices help to determine who will receive the economy's output of goods and services. The price that a worker receives for doing a job is called a wage. The amount of this wage determines how much the worker has to spend. What the worker can buy with those wages will depend, in turn, upon the prices of the goods and services the worker would like to own. If going after criminals makes him a communist, so be it. Maybe we need another Dem who would let them fuck us over. They are NOT criminals! They were doing exactly what they should have. By raising prices they were slowing demand........this would ensure that there would be enough gas for everyone! Because if you don't NEED gas today, why would you pay $5 dollars a gallon for it! Think about it! Nobody's fucking you............except yourself! Lesson over, Accountant PS: I copied that from a 7th GRADE textbook! Damn public schools.

Supply and demand is one thing.  Taking unscrupulous advantage of an emergency is another.

Besides, you skimmed right over the fact that he DID NOT freeze prices.  He only said that they would monitor wholesale prices to insure that local stations were not gouging.

It is not up to individual service stations to control supply and demand.  Supply and demand would impact the wholesale level, which would in turn impact the retail level.

When there has been no change at the wholesale level and the retail price doubles or more in about an hours time, that is not supply and demand, that is gouging.  If you don't think some asshole station owners jacking their prices up to $6 a gallon (with no change at the wholesale level) is gouging, well bully for you.  It was gouging and it was unethical.

LARRYG

It's good to see someone that  is thinking clearly in all of these threads.   You've already said the same things I would of, so I guess I'll have to owe you a beer or some ammo if I ever make it to one of the shoots.

Deep breath.......................

Taking unscrupulous advantage of an emergency is another.

What emergency??? Even the Governor pointed out that we get a large amount of our gas through the Port in Savannah. There was no emergency........except for the short supply of common sense and reason!

Besides, you skimmed right over the fact that he DID NOT freeze prices. He only said that they would monitor wholesale prices to insure that local stations were not gouging.

Thank you for asking. As you and TheReject have been pointing out all over this board......the Governor did not freeze prices. He froze the amount of profit that can be made on gas. So gas will still be more than $3, maybe $4 dollars wholesale, which means it will be even higher at the pump.

Now, I made my origional post based on the reporting of WSB AM-750's 6:15pm news cast which described the actions of the Governor as a freeze on gas prices. So that is my source. Later, they changed their news cast to report it as a freeze on profits...........next time I will drop what I am doing, come running back to the computer, and change my origional post just for you and TheReject...............Goddamn.

It is not up to individual service stations to control supply and demand.

You are kidding right??? Of course they control it. Not nationally, but in their communities.

When there has been no change at the wholesale level and the retail price doubles or more in about an hours time, that is not supply and demand, that is gouging. If you don't think some asshole station owners jacking their prices up to $6 a gallon (with no change at the wholesale level) is gouging, well bully for you. It was gouging and it was unethical.

Personal opinion.............yawn.

Do you work for the gas co? (I know you don't). How do you know that wholesale prices didn't change? Hell, Foxnews and CNN were reporting all day about wholesale prices going up, along with the wholesale price of every other commodity (natural gas, electricity, sugar, ect...) Does your side of the state not have any TV's?



I am done w/ you,
Accountant

My father who owns a gas station in Alabama bought 18000 gallons of gas for $5000 cash and that's what he sold it at $3.60 a gallon.

isnt that $0.28 per gal.?

Quoted: Deep breath....................... Taking unscrupulous advantage of an emergency is another. What emergency??? Even the Governor pointed out that we get a large amount of our gas through the Port in Savannah. There was no emergency........except for the short supply of common sense and reason! Besides, you skimmed right over the fact that he DID NOT freeze prices. He only said that they would monitor wholesale prices to insure that local stations were not gouging. Thank you for asking. As you and TheReject have been pointing out all over this board......the Governor did not freeze prices. He froze the amount of profit that can be made on gas. So gas will still be more than $3, maybe $4 dollars wholesale, which means it will be even higher at the pump. Now, I made my origional post based on the reporting of WSB AM-750's 6:15pm news cast which described the actions of the Governor as a freeze on gas prices. So that is my source. Later, they changed their news cast to report it as a freeze on profits...........next time I will drop what I am doing, come running back to the computer, and change my origional post just for you and TheReject...............Goddamn. It is not up to individual service stations to control supply and demand. You are kidding right??? Of course they control it. Not nationally, but in their communities. When there has been no change at the wholesale level and the retail price doubles or more in about an hours time, that is not supply and demand, that is gouging. If you don't think some asshole station owners jacking their prices up to $6 a gallon (with no change at the wholesale level) is gouging, well bully for you. It was gouging and it was unethical. Personal opinion.............yawn. Do you work for the gas co? (I know you don't). How do you know that wholesale prices didn't change? Hell, Foxnews and CNN were reporting all day about wholesale prices going up, along with the wholesale price of every other commodity (natural gas, electricity, sugar, ect...) Does your side of the state not have any TV's? I am done w/ you, Accountant

Good, I am glad you are done with me.  I am not the one that thinks that gouging is a good thing.

As for the wholesale prices, they had not changed yesterday when all the gouging occurred.  I personally know of one station that did not get a delivery yesterday, yet doubled their price at about 1400 yesterday.  How is that passing on an increase when the station hasn't seen it yet?

Quoted: My father who owns a gas station in Alabama bought 18000 gallons of gas for $5000 cash and that's what he sold it at $3.60 a gallon. isnt that $0.28 per gal.?

Sorry complete typo, 5000 gallons $18,000 cash

Man getting gas @ $0.28 per gal would be a dream for a station owner.

Quoted: CSR, let me put it this way in no uncertian terms.  I have spent almost half my life in and out  ofthe  3rd worlds etc. I am an EOR "equal Opportunity Racist ".  If it had been some white guy I would have come up with a name for him, black guy just the same.  If my remark offends you then I'm sure you will get over it.  I'm not a PC guy, never have been and never will be. I will say exectly how I feel and sometimes its blunt.  None the less I'm sure there are rag heads"iraq's" Afstan's, Indian's and Iranians hell I will even throw in some Asians in here, not that I have ever seen a state side Asians gas station clerk   that have tried their best to make things fare.  But today with what I saw and heard,  and let me point out, at ONE gas station,  was so wrong in so many ways its not even funny. It REALLY made me mad. I will never go there again.  Not that you would care or maybe you would, My remark wasn't directed to you or your dad, it was directed to those at that station.  If you feel that I'm ignorant individual and couldn't tell the difference between an Indian and a Iraqi your sorely wrong.  Hell I will help just about anyone out in time of need.  People that know me also know that I'm about as race nutural as it gets.  If your screwing people no matter what color its wrong.  If you had come on here bitching about some white trailer trash cracker doing what I said,  I wouldn't have gotten "offened" I would have been at your back.  Saying  ya thats really fucking wrong etc.  Thats the difference apperently.   The Gas station just up the street from me is run by a Indian "red dot".  He's a great guy and hell I'm one of his best customers so he says cause I always buy alot of stuff from him every week.  He counts on it.  His prices are alittle higher than some "walmart" but I'm more than happy to help him make ends meet.  But laughing about screwing people because you "can" just isn't right. wolf

Hey Wolf I hear ya, I'm an EOR myself normally; honestly dunno what came over me the other day guess I'm f$$king PMSing lately. I apologize, and if you're ever in the Buckhead area give me a hollar and the first ones on me (as long as we're at the Pink Pony ).

Some people were gouging, but honestly I felt like that was their right to do so. If some comes up and offers me $1000 for my NIB Glock, I'm gonna sell. If people didn't create a panic among themselves there would have been no reason for the stations to go crazy and start charging the prices. But someone somewhere F'ed up and created a panic and that started screwing things up along the WHOLE chain thru wholesale distribution and onto retail distribution.

I believe whatever the price paid for gas in the tank + 2-5% extra for profit is absolute max people should be charging. And I believe there are enough honest dealers out there to patron to where the dealers who are charging 30-40% extra (after paying the inflated rates set by the distributor) are stuck with their expensive gas after gas prices return to their normal highs (2.30-2.40 instead of 3.60-3.70) and they will lose money in the long run. It is OUR responsibility to stay clam and centered in times of emergency and even in times of false emergencies. If the demand is there it is station owners (sometimes unfortunate) right to charge whatever they want. Where do you think these $10,000 M16s came from? I NEED an M16 but you don't see the government opening up the 1986 ban, why should they stop "gouging" it's the same principle, and those are the principles that make the US such a great country. It is unethical and irresponsible, but so are most lawyers and no one is out to stop them. We as a community need to stand up against these owners and not patronize them.
Anyways I hope this whole thing is coming towards a close and we can get back to the $2.50 a gallon gas

Quoted: Good, I am glad you are done with me.  I am not the one that thinks that gouging is a good thing. As for the wholesale prices, they had not changed yesterday when all the gouging occurred.  I personally know of one station that did not get a delivery yesterday, yet doubled their price at about 1400 yesterday.  How is that passing on an increase when the station hasn't seen it yet?

I asked a station owner about this one time and the answer I got was that he was charging based on what he was going to have to pay to replace what he had now.

It made sense in a weird sort of Simon Legree way.
I only charge a higher price for materials and subcontracted work when mine go up,but I am going to have to raise my labor prices soon because of increased energy prices and the higher fuel prices affect my overhead and my meager profits.

Well, somehow I missed this lovely thread when I was working today.

Ummm.......what is that?

Glad to see you guys have thick enough skin that you can throw around a little harshness and still walk away from it without acting like a bunch of kids. You guys make me proud.

Thanks Dad!

Now, continue to beat each other up.

Nope, like I said previously........"I am done w/ you". The man just doesn't want to drink from the fountain of knowledge.

Accountant

Quoted: Well, somehow I missed this lovely thread when I was working today. Ummm.......what is that? Glad to see you guys have thick enough skin that you can throw around a little harshness and still walk away from it without acting like a bunch of kids. You guys make me proud. Thanks Dad! Now, continue to beat each other up. Nope, like I said previously........"I am done w/ you". The man just doesn't want to drink from the fountain of knowledge. Accountant

Not from your so-called "fountain of knowledge".  In this case, I use the term "knowledge" very loosely as it is used by you.

There is a higher demand for medical care extending away from the disaster area.  I guess all hospitals  should raise the cost of care.   I guess I should charge to give blood due to the higher demand, hotels should immediately double their rates, ect....   It's not just about economics and a free market econmy, it's also about morals and taking advantage of a disaster that affects the whole country not just the immediate disaster area.   No one is faulting them for wanting to make a profit.   Sometimes the rules have to be changed such as during WW2 and the rationing., otherwise what is the point in sending rescuers to help the victims.  We should be charging to help them too.  Sadly many people don't realize that not everythings about money.  

Oh christ, people!  When demand goes up, so should the price!  You aren't selling your blood to the Red Cross, you are donating it.  Hotels should raise prices, so should gas stations.  If you don't you run out of gas, you run out of hotel rooms.

To illustrate (and I'm borrowing from an example used by Neal Boortz late last week)::

Let's assume we have one hotel with two empty rooms remaining, and two families of 4.  One family arrives minutes before the other.  If hotels are not allowed to jack up their rates to prevent it, family 1 could reserve the remaining two rooms - one for the parents, one for the kids, and family 2 would be back in the car still searching for another hotel.  On the other hand, if it was cost prohibitive to do so (because of vastly higher room rates), family 1 would only reserve one room for their entire family, and family 2 would have a roof over their heads for the night.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.  You can't be for capitalism and a free economy if you can't wrap your brain around the simple idea that when supply is dwindling while demand is rising, prices should and must go up!

Wow, you still missed the whole point, kind of went over your head did it.   You also didn't read.  I said no one had a problem with people making a profit!!!!!!!!!  We have a problem with price gouging.  Yes the price of gas and other commodities will go up due to many factors, and under NORMAL circumstances the market will decide the going rate.  The hotel point doesn't work because if the hotel knows it is taking in people fleeing a hurricane they can simply limit families of four to one room.   I guess the whole issue is really one of morals, being a southerner I guess I'm one of the first to always help out and the last to consider taking advantage of people just for monetary gain during a crisis.  There really is no reason to keep going back and forth, just chalk it up that we have differing views, I guess mainly because we were raised differently.  I was raised to be the first to help out, work hard, not screw over other people, but to be proud and take up for yourself when needed (I'll admit I got into my share of fights growing up and was always asked two things (1. did you start it?  2. Did you finish it?  Kind of like NO, I wouldn't go looking to kill people, but come my way and sorry it's over simple as that).

P.S.  the blood is a donation under normal conditions, but as with everything else in a disaster with the diminished supply and increased demand I'm sure I could charge a high price for it if someone needed it badly enough (if I was that type of person).

Quoted: Wow, you still missed the whole point, kind of went over your head did it.

No, it's still well within my stratosphere, but you might want to see if it pushed back that receding hairline of yours.

You also didn't read.

Quite well, actually.  You and others have a bit of a case of shooting off the mouth before the brain is fully loaded.  I'm here to put you back into battery.

I said no one had a problem with people making a profit!!!!!!!!!  We have a problem with price gouging.

And yet, there has been no price gouging...  So what's all the fuss about?!?

Yes the price of gas and other commodities will go up due to many factors, and under NORMAL circumstances the market will decide the going rate.

And in this instance, the market decided the rate.  Again, what's your fucking point?!?

The hotel point doesn't work because if the hotel knows it is taking in people fleeing a hurricane they can simply limit families of four to one room.

No, the hotel cannot.  The state/fire inspectors limit that.  If a customer has the disposable income to pay for two hotel rooms, the hotel won't say no - they are in business to MAKE MONEY.  That's what businesses do!

I guess the whole issue is really one of morals, being a southerner I guess I'm one of the first to always help out and the last to consider taking advantage of people just for monetary gain during a crisis.

Oh Sir Lancelot, wilt thou open a hostel for fleeing survivors?  This isn't about morals, it's about a failure to grasp the concept of supply and demand, and the very real fact that businesses are in business to make money.  That's why they are called BUSINESSES, and not CHARITIES.

There really is no reason to keep going back and forth, just chalk it up that we have differing views, I guess mainly because we were raised differently.

Ah, the cop-out.  It's not about differing views.  By all means, I have many issues that I'm personally pissed off about this entire hurricane aftermath, but a run on the pumps fueled (that's a pun, get it?) by a stupid fucking rumor that naturally overinflates the price of fuel in the metro area?  Please.  That has nothing to do with rearing, bearing, caste, nothing.  It's the natural flow of the economy.  The people that control something that other people want can dictate the prices as much as the market can bear.  It's not gouging, as there is no monopoly, and in the case of what happened last week, IT WAS SELF-FUCKING INFLICTED.

I was raised to be the first to help out, work hard, not screw over other people, but to be proud and take up for yourself when needed (I'll admit I got into my share of fights growing up and was always asked two things (1. did you start it?  2. Did you finish it?  Kind of like NO, I wouldn't go looking to kill people, but come my way and sorry it's over simple as that).

Congratufuckinglations.  You sound like damn near every other hard-working Southern boy - up to and including the failure to understand simple economic principles.

P.S.  the blood is a donation under normal conditions, but as with everything else in a disaster with the diminished supply and increased demand I'm sure I could charge a high price for it if someone needed it badly enough (if I was that type of person).

What's twice the price of free, nitwit?  That's right  - still FREE.  There is no market out there to pay people for blood, hence the word "donation".

Quoted: FWIW, If the Gov't really wants to help, they could waive the Fed tax on gas for the next couple of weeks. From what I hear, the tax is around 30%, so just today, they made several million $$ in GA alone. Waive the gas taxes until things stabilize, and everyone will relax with prices back at $2 a gallon.

Well, he did just that insofar as Georgia gasoline taxes go, at least for the month of September.  Of course, most stations are not reflecting that in their prices.

Quoted: FWIW, If the Gov't really wants to help, they could waive the Fed tax on gas for the next couple of weeks. From what I hear, the tax is around 30%, so just today, they made several million $$ in GA alone. Waive the gas taxes until things stabilize, and everyone will relax with prices back at $2 a gallon.

where did you hear 30% ??? Federal gasoline tax is 18.4 cpg (cents per gallon), and fyi GA taxes are 7.5 cpg + sales tax... maybe 30% in the 80's when gas was below $.80/gallon...

Quoted: And if I want to bitch I can and will. Whoa, looks like we've got a 6-year mental level here, folks! You aren't bitching, you are bleating.  Your bleary-eyed whimperings mean nothing because you are doing fuck-all about the situation.  Gas costs too much!  It should be cheaper!  I want to commute to work in my new SUV!  Whine whine, bitch bitch, it's too hot, it's too cold, I don't like dicks in my mouth, that's all we ever hear you say, you racist asshole.

[:)


Now that's funny

Quoted: Quoted: FWIW, If the Gov't really wants to help, they could waive the Fed tax on gas for the next couple of weeks. From what I hear, the tax is around 30%, so just today, they made several million $$ in GA alone. Waive the gas taxes until things stabilize, and everyone will relax with prices back at $2 a gallon. Well, he did just that insofar as Georgia gasoline taxes go, at least for the month of September.  Of course, most stations are not reflecting that in their prices.

Its starting to show some.  He's a table if it "works"
but you can always go to gasbuddy,com

Price   Station   Area   Time   Thanks
2.73 Murphy USA Loganville Tue 8:42 AM willrogers
(Wal*Mart) Hwy 78

2.74 Texaco Atlanta - North Tue Powers Ferry & Interstate Pkway
2.75 Sams Club McDonough Wed 12:00 AM

1765 Jonesboro Rd.
2.75 Sams Club Stockbridge Tue 2:30 PM

I-75 & Jonesboro Rd
2.75 Marathon         Atlanta - SW Tue  12:55 PM

Hwy 92 N. Douglasville Georgia
2.77 Murphy USA Stone Mountain Tue 5:03 PM

Rockbridge Rd near 78E w & 0 card
2.77 Shell                        Sandy Springs Tue 8:26 AM

Roswell Rd & Dalrymple Rd.
2.79 Chevron         East Point Tue 10:29 PM



Wolf