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Posted: 10/23/2010 12:30:18 PM EDT
I haven't seen anything posted about those NJ legal Carbines in a few months. Did anyone ever pick one of them up?
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 12:42:19 PM EDT
A few did and they all had to be returned. The NJSP did a turnabout on their own ruling.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 1:50:07 PM EDT
This and the ACR is the reason why i never jump the gun on anything.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 3:18:45 PM EDT
What???  Your're serious?? What was the reasoning? If those are illegal then how the hell are our AR's legal then?
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 4:01:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rutgers:
What???  Your're serious?? What was the reasoning? If those are illegal then how the hell are our AR's legal then?


Don't even say that, they may hear you and also ban the ar.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 4:11:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rutgers:
What???  Your're serious?? What was the reasoning? If those are illegal then how the hell are our AR's legal then?


Because of the colt target match rifle.
"Ban compliant" AKs on the other hand...

Seems to me like nobody really knows the rules.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 5:33:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rutgers:
What???  Your're serious?? What was the reasoning? If those are illegal then how the hell are our AR's legal then?


The Colt Sporter and the M1A were made legal by a letter from the AG's office back in 1996.

Why? Because the hi-power shooters made a complaint to the AG's office about both rifles being used in State competitions and they were deemed legal as long as they were in post ban configuration.

Firearms Information - Colt Match Target / Springfield M1A - Attorney General's Directive, March 31, 1997      NJSP Badge
spacer    

Related Links
linkFirearms Information

Both the Division of Criminal Justice and the State Police Firearms Unit have received a number of inquiries whether the Colt Match Target Rifle and the Springfield M1A are considered assault firearms under New Jersey law.

Based on our review of the law and the Attorney General guidelines, we conclude that neither of the two firearms are prohibited under State law.

The Colt Match Target Rifle, based on the manufacturer’s specifications, is a new line of rifles and is not part of the AR-15 series, and thus, is not prohibited under N.J.S.A.2 C: 39-1w(1).

Although this new rifle, may resemble the Colt AR-15, there have been substantial changes to the firearm, including the receiver which is not identical to an AR-15 receiver.

In addition, because of changes in the configuration of the firearm, the Colt Match Target Rifle is not substantially identical to a prohibited firearm and prohibited under this classification.

See N.J.S.A.2C:39-1w(2) and Attorney General’s Guidelines Regarding the “Substantially Identical” Provision in the State’s Assault Firearms Laws dated August 19, 1996.

The Springfield M1A is not one of the enumerated firearms which are specifically prohibited under the State’s assault firearms laws. It has been prohibited in this State as being substantially identical to a named firearm.

However, according to the manufacturer’s specifications, the M1A has been modified. The modified M1A, which became available in 1994, would not be considered to be substantially identical to a prohibited firearm in accordance with the statutory provision and the Attorney General’s guidelines cited above.

However, earlier versions of the M1A which contains at least two of the criteria identified in Paragraph B of the Attorney General’s Guidelines, supra, would still be considered to be substantially identical to a prohibited firearm and continue to be banned under our State law.

As a result, it will be necessary to clearly distinguish the physical characteristics or lack of physical characteristics when making a determination regarding the M1A rifle.

Neither this clarification regarding the classification of the Colt Match Target Rifle and the M1A Rifle, nor the guidelines issued August 19, 1996, regarding the “substantially identical” provision of the assault weapons law applies to firearms that are specifically listed in N.J.S.A.2C:39-1w(2) as prohibited firearms or to firearms which are banned at “types” of named prohibited firearms.

If you have any questions regarding the classification of these two firearms, please contact the:

State Police Firearms Unit at 609-882-2000

or

Deputy Attorney General William J. Zaorski at 609-984-2796.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 8:19:57 PM EDT
How can the state police and ag's office make a complete sentence with all the bullshit that falls out of their mouths?
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 3:44:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hemcon9:
How can the state police and ag's office make a complete sentence with all the bullshit that falls out of their mouths?

Easy ... they're Dumocraps
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 4:27:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hemcon9:
How can the state police and ag's office make a complete sentence with all the bullshit that falls out of their mouths?


Easy both are very corrupt.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 10:44:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hemcon9:
How can the state police and ag's office make a complete sentence with all the bullshit that falls out of their mouths?



The Lt In charge of the Firearms unit made a Judgement call, and authorized the Carbines as they fell under the "Not Sunstansively Identical" wording of the law because the A-O carbines were the only ones not marked "M-1 Carbine"  The letter went out to the Company, who sent them to the Distributors, who then sent them to the Dealers.  Soon, rather than accepting the letter at face value the FIU was recieving 50+ calls per day saying "Mother May I", and EVENTUALLY the wrong person took one of those phone calls and went runnign to the AG's office.  The Anti-Gun AG promptly rescinded the authorization.   The Issue certainly isn't dead, but it will probably have to go through the courts to resolve one way or the other.  IMO the plan was to get a couple of hundred of them out there in shooters' hands, and it would have been too late to try a recall..plus it might have opened up the window to make some more inroads into the AWB down the line.  Now?  That Lt wont stick his neck out EVER again to try and get anything passed for us IMO..he came very close to getting reassigned, and the guy who would have probably taken his place is a definite Anti.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 10:46:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By hemcon9:
How can the state police and ag's office make a complete sentence with all the bullshit that falls out of their mouths?



The Lt In charge of the Firearms unit made a Judgement call, and authorized the Carbines as they fell under the "Not Sunstansively Identical" wording of the law because the A-O carbines were the only ones not marked "M-1 Carbine"  The letter went out to the Company, who sent them to the Distributors, who then sent them to the Dealers.  Soon, rather than accepting the letter at face value the FIU was recieving 50+ calls per day saying "Mother May I", and EVENTUALLY the wrong person took one of those phone calls and went runnign to the AG's office.  The Anti-Gun AG promptly rescinded the authorization.   The Issue certainly isn't dead, but it will probably have to go through the courts to resolve one way or the other.  IMO the plan was to get a couple of hundred of them out there in shooters' hands, and it would have been too late to try a recall..plus it might have opened up the window to make some more inroads into the AWB down the line.  Now?  That Lt wont stick his neck out EVER again to try and get anything passed for us IMO..he came very close to getting reassigned, and the guy who would have probably taken his place is a definite Anti.



Link Posted: 10/24/2010 1:23:56 PM EDT
Since when does a police agency, ANY police agency, get to make, change, alter, modify, or interpret law????

Making law, changing, modifying law, changing law, are the job responsibility of the legislature, as much as we may dislike them.
interpreting the law is the job ans responsibility of juries.

The responsibility of the police, pretty much anywhere in the country, is to enforce the law.
Theirs is not the party to create law, then rescind it back the next day, as they were not elected and therefore not answerable to the people they serve.....

This gulag went the way of the dodo bird back when the politicians decided they didn't have the balls to do their jobs in researching and learning about the laws being proposed and kicked the can down the line to the state police who now think they are the lawmaking authority here.

This is not meant to be a knock on the troopers, but the admin. is as corrupt as the legislature, if not more.


Link Posted: 10/24/2010 2:30:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
Since when does a police agency, ANY police agency, get to make, change, alter, modify, or interpret law????




That is due to them being the only ones who know what a firearm is and what they feel the public should be allowed to use.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 2:39:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
Since when does a police agency, ANY police agency, get to make, change, alter, modify, or interpret law????

Making law, changing, modifying law, changing law, are the job responsibility of the legislature, as much as we may dislike them.
interpreting the law is the job ans responsibility of juries.

The responsibility of the police, pretty much anywhere in the country, is to enforce the law.
Theirs is not the party to create law, then rescind it back the next day, as they were not elected and therefore not answerable to the people they serve.....

This gulag went the way of the dodo bird back when the politicians decided they didn't have the balls to do their jobs in researching and learning about the laws being proposed and kicked the can down the line to the state police who now think they are the lawmaking authority here.

This is not meant to be a knock on the troopers, but the admin. is as corrupt as the legislature, if not more.




Well now you get your wish,,because that Lt in charge of the FIU wont EVER make another interpretation on our favor again.  A-O asked a question based on the way we can get WASR's and other firearms similar to those on "The List"  Dave made a judgement call that their "ML" Carbine qualified under that and said that As far as he was concerned it was NJ compliant, and legal.  The Attorney general is the one who made the final determination that it did NOT comply with the statute.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 2:58:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2010 2:59:13 PM EDT by LUGERMAN]
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
Since when does a police agency, ANY police agency, get to make, change, alter, modify, or interpret law????

Making law, changing, modifying law, changing law, are the job responsibility of the legislature, as much as we may dislike them.
interpreting the law is the job ans responsibility of juries.

The responsibility of the police, pretty much anywhere in the country, is to enforce the law.
Theirs is not the party to create law, then rescind it back the next day, as they were not elected and therefore not answerable to the people they serve.....

This gulag went the way of the dodo bird back when the politicians decided they didn't have the balls to do their jobs in researching and learning about the laws being proposed and kicked the can down the line to the state police who now think they are the lawmaking authority here.

This is not meant to be a knock on the troopers, but the admin. is as corrupt as the legislature, if not more.




Well now you get your wish,,because that Lt in charge of the FIU wont EVER make another interpretation on our favor again.  A-O asked a question based on the way we can get WASR's and other firearms similar to those on "The List"  Dave made a judgement call that their "ML" Carbine qualified under that and said that As far as he was concerned it was NJ compliant, and legal.  The Attorney general is the one who made the final determination that it did NOT comply with the statute.


That POS Paula Dow is as anti-gun as is Hilliary Clinton.

Good luck with getting a CCW with her as the AG.

Never going to happen, ever!
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 3:07:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
Since when does a police agency, ANY police agency, get to make, change, alter, modify, or interpret law????

Making law, changing, modifying law, changing law, are the job responsibility of the legislature, as much as we may dislike them.
interpreting the law is the job ans responsibility of juries.

The responsibility of the police, pretty much anywhere in the country, is to enforce the law.
Theirs is not the party to create law, then rescind it back the next day, as they were not elected and therefore not answerable to the people they serve.....

This gulag went the way of the dodo bird back when the politicians decided they didn't have the balls to do their jobs in researching and learning about the laws being proposed and kicked the can down the line to the state police who now think they are the lawmaking authority here.

This is not meant to be a knock on the troopers, but the admin. is as corrupt as the legislature, if not more.




Well now you get your wish,,because that Lt in charge of the FIU wont EVER make another interpretation on our favor again.  A-O asked a question based on the way we can get WASR's and other firearms similar to those on "The List"  Dave made a judgement call that their "ML" Carbine qualified under that and said that As far as he was concerned it was NJ compliant, and legal.  The Attorney general is the one who made the final determination that it did NOT comply with the statute.


That POS Paula Dow is as anti-gun as is Hilliary Clinton.

Good luck with getting a CCW with her as the AG.

Never going to happen, ever!


I disagree..it'll happen but it will take people spanding an assload of money to do it.  What I think will happen is that this proposed law will pass....then you'll get less than 50 people who will pay for the permits (other than those who NEED them for work) and then the Legislature will change the law back because "There is no interest in CCW in NJ".  In the end it's going to take Court Orders and lawsuits..and MAYBE even a couple of charges of Violation of Civil Rights before it's done.. either way, I wont see it before I'm retired and gone from here.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 3:33:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
Since when does a police agency, ANY police agency, get to make, change, alter, modify, or interpret law????

Making law, changing, modifying law, changing law, are the job responsibility of the legislature, as much as we may dislike them.
interpreting the law is the job ans responsibility of juries.

The responsibility of the police, pretty much anywhere in the country, is to enforce the law.
Theirs is not the party to create law, then rescind it back the next day, as they were not elected and therefore not answerable to the people they serve.....

This gulag went the way of the dodo bird back when the politicians decided they didn't have the balls to do their jobs in researching and learning about the laws being proposed and kicked the can down the line to the state police who now think they are the lawmaking authority here.

This is not meant to be a knock on the troopers, but the admin. is as corrupt as the legislature, if not more.




Well now you get your wish,,because that Lt in charge of the FIU wont EVER make another interpretation on our favor again.  A-O asked a question based on the way we can get WASR's and other firearms similar to those on "The List"  Dave made a judgement call that their "ML" Carbine qualified under that and said that As far as he was concerned it was NJ compliant, and legal.  The Attorney general is the one who made the final determination that it did NOT comply with the statute.


That POS Paula Dow is as anti-gun as is Hilliary Clinton.

Good luck with getting a CCW with her as the AG.

Never going to happen, ever!


I disagree..it'll happen but it will take people spanding an assload of money to do it.  What I think will happen is that this proposed law will pass....then you'll get less than 50 people who will pay for the permits (other than those who NEED them for work) and then the Legislature will change the law back because "There is no interest in CCW in NJ".  In the end it's going to take Court Orders and lawsuits..and MAYBE even a couple of charges of Violation of Civil Rights before it's done.. either way, I wont see it before I'm retired and gone from here.


I wish I could agree with you. However based on how NJ gun laws have operated since the 60's I just don't see how. As long as we have politicians like Lautenburg, Menendez and Paula Dow we are doomed. Even Christie is no Friend to gun owners.

We need a complete turnaround of NJ Politicians like Steve Lonegran  who can make a difference. No Democrat is ever going to help us. Even phony's like Jeff Van Drew will never succeed. He is IMHO the worst kind of politician.

No one more then me hope's I'm wrong. I have been closely watching how NJ politicians in NJ have voted when it comes to our  2A rights.

To say the least I'm not encouraged!!
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 3:36:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2010 3:37:09 PM EDT by AJK07734]
That is why i keep repeating it will take a bunch of lawsuits and court actions to garner any changes...about the only way that WONT happen is if the post Heller/Mcdonald shenanigans in DC and Chicago end up with some politicians getting their peepees whacked HARD.  problem is we would need someone with DEEP pockets to take the state on...remember the politicians dont give a rat's ass about how much money these fights cost...it isnt THEIR money they are spending.  Even if Lonegan got in..there isnt anything he can do as governor on his own..he'd have to have a cooperative legislature.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 3:39:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
That is why i keep repeating it will take a bunch of lawsuits and court actions to garner any changes...about the only way that WONT happen is if the post Heller/Mcdonald shenanigans in DC and Chicago end up with some politicians getting their peepees whacked HARD.  problem is we would need someone with DEEP pockets to take the state on...remember the politicians dont give a rat's ass about how much money these fights cost...it isnt THEIR money they are spending.  Even if Lonegan got in..there isnt anything he can do as governor on his own..he'd have to have a cooperative legislature.


Agreed. That's one of the main reasons why I feel we are sunk. The NRA has long abandoned us.

Who is left with deep pockets to support us?
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 4:48:28 PM EDT




Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:



Originally Posted By AJK07734:

That is why i keep repeating it will take a bunch of lawsuits and court actions to garner any changes...about the only way that WONT happen is if the post Heller/Mcdonald shenanigans in DC and Chicago end up with some politicians getting their peepees whacked HARD. problem is we would need someone with DEEP pockets to take the state on...remember the politicians dont give a rat's ass about how much money these fights cost...it isnt THEIR money they are spending. Even if Lonegan got in..there isnt anything he can do as governor on his own..he'd have to have a cooperative legislature.




Agreed. That's one of the main reasons why I feel we are sunk. The NRA has long abandoned us.



Who is left with deep pockets to support us?




http://www.saf.org/




Link Posted: 10/24/2010 4:57:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Iggyort:

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
That is why i keep repeating it will take a bunch of lawsuits and court actions to garner any changes...about the only way that WONT happen is if the post Heller/Mcdonald shenanigans in DC and Chicago end up with some politicians getting their peepees whacked HARD. problem is we would need someone with DEEP pockets to take the state on...remember the politicians dont give a rat's ass about how much money these fights cost...it isnt THEIR money they are spending. Even if Lonegan got in..there isnt anything he can do as governor on his own..he'd have to have a cooperative legislature.


Agreed. That's one of the main reasons why I feel we are sunk. The NRA has long abandoned us.

Who is left with deep pockets to support us?


http://www.saf.org/




i didn't look a whole lot on their site, but on the front page they have loads of headlines of "SAF sues this... SAF sues that" of course none of them are in NJ.  Why dont they try anything here?

Link Posted: 10/24/2010 5:51:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By njitmetal:
Originally Posted By Iggyort:

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
That is why i keep repeating it will take a bunch of lawsuits and court actions to garner any changes...about the only way that WONT happen is if the post Heller/Mcdonald shenanigans in DC and Chicago end up with some politicians getting their peepees whacked HARD. problem is we would need someone with DEEP pockets to take the state on...remember the politicians dont give a rat's ass about how much money these fights cost...it isnt THEIR money they are spending. Even if Lonegan got in..there isnt anything he can do as governor on his own..he'd have to have a cooperative legislature.


Agreed. That's one of the main reasons why I feel we are sunk. The NRA has long abandoned us.

Who is left with deep pockets to support us?


http://www.saf.org/




i didn't look a whole lot on their site, but on the front page they have loads of headlines of "SAF sues this... SAF sues that" of course none of them are in NJ.  Why dont they try anything here?



Sell all your possessions & play the odds in AC,  then you'll understand why SAF isn't placing a bet on us.
The odds are stacked against them.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 7:22:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By YoungFrankenstien856:
Originally Posted By njitmetal:
Originally Posted By Iggyort:

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
That is why i keep repeating it will take a bunch of lawsuits and court actions to garner any changes...about the only way that WONT happen is if the post Heller/Mcdonald shenanigans in DC and Chicago end up with some politicians getting their peepees whacked HARD. problem is we would need someone with DEEP pockets to take the state on...remember the politicians dont give a rat's ass about how much money these fights cost...it isnt THEIR money they are spending. Even if Lonegan got in..there isnt anything he can do as governor on his own..he'd have to have a cooperative legislature.


Agreed. That's one of the main reasons why I feel we are sunk. The NRA has long abandoned us.

Who is left with deep pockets to support us?


http://www.saf.org/




i didn't look a whole lot on their site, but on the front page they have loads of headlines of "SAF sues this... SAF sues that" of course none of them are in NJ.  Why dont they try anything here?



Sell all your possessions & play the odds in AC,  then you'll understand why SAF isn't placing a bet on us.
The odds are stacked against them.


Yes, Why would anyone want to waste their time making no difference when it could be used to actually make a difference elsewhere? I can't blame them.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 8:42:43 PM EDT
SAF is in the process of obtaining defendants to challenge the NJ CCW laws.  The question is, what are you doing to support them?
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 3:18:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2010 3:19:54 AM EDT by Iggyort]




Originally Posted By Tom488:

SAF is in the process of obtaining defendants to challenge the NJ CCW laws. The question is, what are you doing to support them?



Bless you my Son!!!!!





The way to victory is by using to the Federal Court System . Westchester has the same Federal District Court System as NJ, therefore the current Lawsuit that the SAF has against Westchester County in NY for CCW should have an impact on us.



http://saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=331



In addition , the SAF has teamed up with NJ Citizen Coalition for Self Defence to sue NJ for the CCW Right and is now looking for the perfect candidates.





We need money for both the NJCSD and the SAF



NJ War Chest : http://www.njcsd.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1057&Itemid=59





We have the Perfect Storm :



A pro Second Supreme Court -(by one vote)

Heller vs. D.C. -(We Won )

Mc Donald vs. Chicago -( We Won )

Heller(II ) vs. D.C (Currently on going- D.C prohibits ownership of Black Rifles)
At this point , I do believe that the NRA has given up on NJ and only uses its NJ Membership to bank roll other activities.





No , I am not a NRA Hater since I am a Life Member but I do observe the flow of money





Bayonets and Forward!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 6:24:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:The Colt Sporter and the M1A were made legal by a letter from the AG's office back in 1996.

Why? Because the hi-power shooters made a complaint to the AG's office about both rifles being used in State competitions and they were deemed legal as long as they were in post ban configuration.


Only partially right. Should read: "A high power shooter made a complaint..." Singular. That high power shooter happened to be the head of the NJSP Firearms unit at the time. He was assisting the DAG that was drafting the ban list and had them specifically exclude the two guns in question.

While I am all for anything that shortens that list, to me, this was nothing more than an abuse of power. He was in a position to influence a ruling that would be of a personal benefit to him and his high power buddies and took advantage of that position to make sure they got "taken care of".

This came out, by his own admission, during his testimony at the OGAM public hearing.

Just pisses me right the hell off.

Adios,

Pizza Bob
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 10:06:36 AM EDT
Is there a transcript of that testimony?  I'd be interested in reading it.  The ban list was put together in 1990, I thought....  the M1A and the CMT were "deemed legal" in 1996...
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 7:39:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tom488:
Is there a transcript of that testimony?  I'd be interested in reading it.  The ban list was put together in 1990, I thought....  the M1A and the CMT were "deemed legal" in 1996...


It's #1 on this page. His testimony starts on transcript Page 62 (which, I believe, is page 71 in the Adobe count).

http://67.222.58.183/joomla/index.php?option=com_search&searchword=Firearms%20Task%20Force&submit=Search&searchphrase=any&ordering=newest
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 8:45:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2010 8:45:24 AM EDT by jonjsse1]





Originally Posted By Tom488:



SAF is in the process of obtaining defendants to challenge the NJ CCW laws.  The question is, what are you doing to support them?





we shouldn't be expected to financially support them, or any other group, until they provide some evidence that they are working for us. And I don't mean plans and ideas, I want solid legal documentation confirming that they are proceeding with a challenge to any one of the laws on New Jerseys shit stained books before they see a dime from my wallet.  Same reason I cant continue to support the NRA, because my money is going everywhere but the state of New Jersey. Fuck them.  

 










 
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 9:55:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PizzaBob:
It's #1 on this page. His testimony starts on transcript Page 62 (which, I believe, is page 71 in the Adobe count).

http://67.222.58.183/joomla/index.php?option=com_search&searchword=Firearms%20Task%20Force&submit=Search&searchphrase=any&ordering=newest

Thank you.  That was very informative.  I took special note of the part about, "those with FFL03's...  we advised them to turn them in.  Those that didn't...  we went and visited".  No doubt with an arrest warrant already in hand.


Link Posted: 10/26/2010 2:30:53 PM EDT




Originally Posted By jonjsse1:





Originally Posted By Tom488:

SAF is in the process of obtaining defendants to challenge the NJ CCW laws. The question is, what are you doing to support them?



we shouldn't be expected to financially support them, or any other group, until they provide some evidence that they are working for us. And I don't mean plans and ideas, I want solid legal documentation confirming that they are proceeding with a challenge to any one of the laws on New Jerseys shit stained books before they see a dime from my wallet. Same reason I cant continue to support the NRA, because my money is going everywhere but the state of New Jersey. Fuck them.









Agreed but I will try to get more info

Link Posted: 10/26/2010 4:10:55 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Iggyort:





Originally Posted By jonjsse1:




Originally Posted By Tom488:

SAF is in the process of obtaining defendants to challenge the NJ CCW laws. The question is, what are you doing to support them?



we shouldn't be expected to financially support them, or any other group, until they provide some evidence that they are working for us. And I don't mean plans and ideas, I want solid legal documentation confirming that they are proceeding with a challenge to any one of the laws on New Jerseys shit stained books before they see a dime from my wallet. Same reason I cant continue to support the NRA, because my money is going everywhere but the state of New Jersey. Fuck them.







Agreed but I will try to get more info



thats great, i just dont want to have to pass the bill so to speak, before i know whats in it (or where its going)

 
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