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Posted: 12/19/2004 8:31:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2004 8:35:19 AM EDT by ED_P]
What a typical Liberal Urban sprawl situation.  The club was pretty isolated, just a few houses nearby, till a couple  years ago when a couple developments went in right across the road from the club.

Alot of police use the range for training, and some new (less than 2 year old construction) neighbors
complained about shooting on the range at dusk, eventhough it was police from nearby towns training.

They changed the rules to end shooting at sunset, and inform all the neighbors via public notice and
local access cable, prior to times the police will be training during near evening hours.

The eternal question of "Didn't you realize you were buying a new house right next to a Shooting range?"
doesn't seem to carry any weight once people move into their homes.

Link Posted: 12/19/2004 8:35:27 AM EDT
Fuckin Massholes.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 8:51:26 AM EDT

Fuckin Massholes.



I thouht that was a Maine expression
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 9:18:22 AM EDT
I wish there was a "protection of shooting sports recreation areas act of 2005" to prevent these people from shutting things down.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 3:20:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:
I wish there was a "protection of shooting sports recreation areas act of 2005" to prevent these people from shutting things down.



There is... sort of.

www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/214-7b.htm

CHAPTER 214. EQUITY JURISDICTION

Chapter 214: Section 7B Noise pollution; shooting ranges; exemption from liability; hours of operation

 Section 7B. Notwithstanding the provisions of any general or special law, rule or regulation to the contrary, no owner of a rifle, pistol, silhouette, skeet, trap, blackpowder, or other similar range shall be liable in any civil action or criminal prosecution in any matter relating to noise or noise pollution resulting from use of the range, provided said owner of the range was in compliance with any applicable noise control law, ordinance or by-laws in existence at the time of the construction of such range.

 No owner shall be liable in any action for nuisance, and no court shall enjoin the use or operation of said range on the basis of noise or noise pollution, provided said owner was in compliance with any noise control law, ordinance or by-laws in existence at the time of the construction of the range.

 The exemptions from liability and the immunities from prosecution provided in this section shall also extend to any owner who, in order to satisfy a requirement of law, regulation or by-law, relocates his range within the same parcel of land or a contiguous parcel of land, owned by him at the time that the commonwealth or its political subdivision commences enforcement of such a requirement or that the owner voluntarily complies with such a requirement. In order to maintain these exemptions from liability and immunities from prosecution, owners who relocate their ranges pursuant to the preceding sentence shall remain in compliance with the applicable noise control laws, ordinances or by-laws in existence at the time of the construction of the original range described in the first paragraph.

 No standards in rules adopted by any state, city, or town agency for limiting levels of noise in terms of decibel level which may occur in the outdoor atmosphere shall apply to the ranges exempted from liability under the provisions of this section. Such ranges shall be prohibited from operating between the hours of ten o'clock post meridian and eight o'clock ante meridian unless otherwise allowed by the local governing body.

(GOALs website mentions something about Chapter 373: "Chapter 373 exempted shooting ranges from civil or criminal liability tor noise pollution. Filed jointly with the Massachusetts Sportsmen's Council.")


The only thing that might concern me is if the residents (failing to get any action based on noise complaints), try another angle by stirring up shit with the MWRA or EPA regarding any ground water contamination).
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 4:54:18 PM EDT
Hmm, the OP was in NH. MGLs don't do him or Pelham any good!

Also, it doesn't matter what the law is, I can tell you that the towns, local chiefs, town meeting by-laws, zoning regs, etc. can do lots of damage to the viability of a gun club.

Those that move in and are activists are usually very successful in making life unpleasant for the gun clubs.

Been there and seen it happen to two of my past and present clubs. Another present club doesn't allow any shooting on Easter Sunday or another holiday due to capitulation to noise complaints from townspeople. All three clubs restrict shooting on Sundays/Holidays for similar reasons. Damn I hate waiting until 12NOon/1PM on Sundays/Holidays to shoot outdoors because someone might find the noise offensive!
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 8:38:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2004 8:41:04 AM EDT by sgthoskins]

Originally Posted By ED_P:
The eternal question of "Didn't you realize you were buying a new house right next to a Shooting range?"
doesn't seem to carry any weight once people move into their homes.



You would have thought that would have been obvious.  If they force the club to change it's hours I would consider lighting off fireworks everyday at sunrise and sunset.  Then maybe they wont think the range noise was so bad after all.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 2:40:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
Fuckin Massholes.



That was my first thought. Damned barbarians, NH should build a wall.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 3:28:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TimJ:

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
Fuckin Massholes.



That was my first thought. Damned barbarians, NH should build a wall.



"GODDAM MONGORIANS!!!"

Link Posted: 12/21/2004 3:37:36 AM EDT
The reality is that every club must become defensive and purchase property around themselves any time it becomes available to create a buffer zone.
Link Posted: 12/21/2004 6:57:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:

"GODDAM MONGORIANS!!!"




Link Posted: 12/21/2004 10:18:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Emoto:
The reality is that every club must become defensive and purchase property around themselves any time it becomes available to create a buffer zone.



Absolutely!

I recall my 1st club was offered ~80 acres of property (probably back in the 1945-55 time-frame) and they passed on it figuring "nobody will ever build there"! Well, that screwed plans for a high-power rifle range and they worry a whole lot about bullets ending up in people's back yards today.
Link Posted: 12/21/2004 11:51:32 AM EDT
Screw em.

I've been thinking of joining that club, maybe now would be a good time.

TITLE XII PUBLIC SAFETY AND WELFARE

CHAPTER 159-B SHOOTING RANGES

Section 159-B:2
    159-B:2 Injunctions. – The owners, operators, or users of shooting ranges shall not be subject to any action for nuisance and no court shall enjoin the use or operation of a range on the basis of noise or noise pollution, provided that the owners of the range are in compliance with any noise control ordinance that was in existence at the time the range was established, was constructed, or began operations.

Source. 2004, 83:2, eff. May 7, 2004.
Link Posted: 12/22/2004 6:15:36 PM EDT
Oh Hell....

These Massholes move next to an airport, and complain about the noise from the big bad planes.hinking.gif

Then the want the airport to close down the runways so they can get some sleep.
Next they complain to the town that they want tax exempts to pay less taxes.
Then they get the Feds to insulate their homes which includes new windows and siding to cut down the noise.
After all that they want the airport shut down. heaper
Link Posted: 12/22/2004 9:13:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2004 9:14:26 PM EDT by 95thFoot]

Originally Posted By LenS:

Originally Posted By Emoto:
The reality is that every club must become defensive and purchase property around themselves any time it becomes available to create a buffer zone.



Absolutely!

I recall my 1st club was offered ~80 acres of property (probably back in the 1945-55 time-frame) and they passed on it figuring "nobody will ever build there"! Well, that screwed plans for a high-power rifle range and they worry a whole lot about bullets ending up in people's back yards today.



The same thing happened to many clubs in MA, primarily because they were mostly blue collar types with limited education and foresight, who were dealing with richer professional types moving in who have enough connections, money, education and time to hassle the clubs out of existence, by nickel and diming them to death in the proverbial death by a thousand cuts.

Some of these guys that ran the clubs were more interested in drinking at the club bar than taking care of business. That was, acc. to people who used to be in it, the case in the town I live in. Only had a little 100 yd rifle range , down near the RR track- "Oh, nobody will ever care about that being there...."

Well, now a RR is considered a public way, and the range was less than 100' away from it, as well as being kitty cornered in with a microwave realy station on the property....

These clubs never saw what hit them until it was too late.

The club I'm in recently fought a battle against a local who alleged that people at our club were lobbing rifle rounds over his house (he lives a 1/2 mile away) and effectively shut down all opposition to the club being open (lots of Boston and NY yuppies moving in...) by having the local PD and State cops shoot there, as well as keep up a long tradition of public open houses and picnics on the grounds. Get the cops and the community behind you, and that guarantees you'll stay open- for another year or two, at least, then the battle starts anew against some other new yuppie who just moved in and has wet drawers from all the rifle fire..."You mean...they have guns???"
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 11:10:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Win_88:
Oh Hell....

These Massholes move next to an airport, and complain about the noise from the big bad planes.hinking.gif

Then the want the airport to close down the runways so they can get some sleep.
Next they complain to the town that they want tax exempts to pay less taxes.
Then they get the Feds to insulate their homes which includes new windows and siding to cut down the noise.
After all that they want the airport shut down. heaperhr


Dont you dare... If We got ride of them its one less liberal fuck head to deal with and we dont want them back...

For Christ sake you are all missing the simple solution here...

Simply start having weekly Machinegun shoots and explain to them that is the only way (now due to your reduced hours) that you can make it up to your patrons... If you could only go back to your old hours... this wouldnt be an issue.... for shame that they made you change them...

If that doent work... find a big ditch and well.... explain it to them....
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 12:08:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2004 7:44:10 PM EDT by gunsanplanes]
i hope their bitching goes nowhere. i live just over in salem, i've shot there as a guest, and have driven by there for over 20 years. it use to be a nice dirt road with pretty much no houses to speak of. now it's nice and tarred, and the houses are springing up.
damn shame. and they almost have that new 600 yard range put in also.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 12:51:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
If they force the club to change it's hours I would consider lighting off fireworks everyday at sunrise and sunset.  Then maybe they wont think the range noise was so bad after all.



Buy one of those deer cannon - propane noisemaker on a timer. set it to go off every minute or so at sunrise for an hour, and for an hour leading up to sunset.
Link Posted: 12/30/2004 10:23:37 AM EDT
I am on the border of a rifle/ pistol range and most days dont even hear it.  In my town the shepple   wont even let a motorcycle track open because they are afraid of the noise. bunch oc asshats.
Phil.
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 8:11:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2005 8:13:19 PM EDT by Roostah]
When the Nashua F&G noticed that developments were encroaching, they had it in the land puchase agreements that the new owner knew and accepted the fact that they live next to a range. The new Massholes atfirst tried to complain, but that stopped almost immediately. Plus all ranges now fire away from populations.

Still the liberal gun grabbers will bitch, just because they can and it has to be some one elses fault, right?
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 6:04:12 AM EDT
Pelham created some of its own noise problems with the aggressive tree cut right in the area of the new houses and utility range and the failure to act progressively.

Prior to the agressive tree cut in and around the utility range, you didn't notice a range was even there.  The only sound that you could hear was the shotgun range in the evening.  (I live in the area and know the range sounds as well as spending several months working on the facility grounds in an effort to build a 600 yard range).

Now you can see right down into the range from the road.  So you not only hear it, you see it.

Pelham needs to do a replant in that area in an effort to regain some of the sound absortion.  I don't think they should wait until nature takes its course.

You have Paul Gilberti and a few others who are still on the E-Board to thank for that tree cut.  Especially since the facility is over 350 acres and much of the land NEEDS a 25% to 30% tree cut/thinning to encourage new and further growth of the existing forest protecting the ranges.  

The Board can say what it wants, but the tree cut in and around the utility range was pure greed and well, you get what you get when actions are based in greed.

Further, Pelham had the opportunity to purchase the property (that has the new houses across the street) for a song and dance under Mr. Fox, but he declined the purchase as the property was across the street.  The purchase price was well within the means of the Club.

Under Gilberti, the Club passed on the oportunity to purchase property directly north of the utility range.  Again, the purchase price was a song and dance.  The thinking was that purchasing an acre or two wide strip along the north side of the range would not be a big benefit to the Club.  The benefit of the purchase would be to lessen the number of single-family houses that could be built and to decrease the number of active adult apartments that could be put in ( in addition to the benefits enjoyed by a range when it purchases more property).

Also not widely known is that Pelham could have purchased the strip of property along Route 38 near Beregron's store and that area would have been insulated from further development.   That would have eliminated the housing development that can be seen from the back of the property where the 600 yardline and archery ranges are located.  That purchase would have cost the Club zero (in fact, the plan as described to me woul.d have resulted in the Club making money).  

Sounds to me that Pelham Fish & Game Club is suffering more from poor /management and less from massholes, the town, the law, etc..  Further, they get mad and deny the presence of problems when suggestions are made to improve the property and secure the range's existence into the future.

Gurrie Fandozzi
Former Club Member Who Knows Too Much About PF&GC

PS: There maybe more to come:  there was a planned development just north of the utility range.  The plan (circa 2001) was to build 7 to 10 houses along Marblehead Road and an over 55 housing development just up the road.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 5:52:55 AM EDT
This shit reminds me of people who move to near airports and complain about the noise from the engines....I remember growing up near Pease AFB and hearing full burner take-off's at like 3am  thanks to SAC....yeah, nobody was complaining then....I dunno.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 5:54:58 AM EDT
I never understand these people.

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 3:09:39 AM EDT
It is the same ones who build houses near a gravel bank and then bitch about the operation of said gravel bank. They knew it was there when they built it,chose to ignore it,and now don't like it. Or even the idiot city people who move out to the country,because it is so quaint,but now they bitch because they don't have city services. Oh yeah I could go on.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:13:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 4:15:22 AM EDT by 95thFoot]

Originally Posted By MrsWildweasel:
It is the same ones who build houses near a gravel bank and then bitch about the operation of said gravel bank. They knew it was there when they built it,chose to ignore it,and now don't like it. Or even the idiot city people who move out to the country,because it is so quaint,but now they bitch because they don't have city services. Oh yeah I could go on.



Sounds like our whiny, insufferable neighbors out back.  

Yuppies originally from the posh town of Sudbury, who then moved out from their digs in Boston to our little former farm town, built their yuppie palace on cheap swampland right next to Rte 290, and now complain about their leaking cellar and the highway noise.....when they first moved in their house was beautiful, with a dry, finished cellar (!). There wasn't as much traffic noise on the interstate right next to them. It was loud, but it quieted down at night.

Now, ten years later, with everybody else like them moving out here, and businesses too, and all the other new houses taking up all the available land, the water table has shifted and the interstate is now busy 24 hours a day. Their cellar is now cracked in their swampland home, and smells of mold.

They just don't understand how they should have taken those things into account when they moved out here, and now they want our state rep to "cure" these problems for them......they think somebody else is at fault, and that somebody else- the govt., with taxpayer money, should rectify their self-caused problems for them.

Spoiled brats in grownups' clothes!

Oh well, at least they no longer have a gun range to complain about (see above)....
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:36:19 AM EDT
Sorry to hear that,gun ranges around here are few and far between. I have the luxury of being able to go down the road to the dairy farm and shoot into the gravel banks anytime I want. Mr personal veiw on them is if they don't like it here move,non of us will cry over it and we may applaud it if they are real idiots.Unfortunately since we are so close to Northampton and Amhert we get all the college liberals moving out here.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:41:03 AM EDT
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