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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/17/2005 4:25:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 4:36:12 PM EDT by SKSGuy]
SBR's are illegal in this state unless they were grandfathered in or under class 3/gov't supervision.


mmmkay. So has anybody ever thought about doing an SBR conversion to an HK94 or a BW5-FS...but permanently attaching a suppressor to it so it meets the minimum 16" barrel length?

and blah blah..I know. Pointless because it would be illegal to fire it. Unless you lived near ID or OR border in which case you could just make a day trip across into less liberal lands.

-Rob
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:31:44 PM EDT
I don't think you can even legally attach a silencer to a weapon, so it's pointless.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:32:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 4:36:30 PM EDT by SKSGuy]
You can attach them as far as I know.

You just can't use them. (which we all already know)

to add to this the only thing I see in the law abotu it is:


RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons -- Penalty.

Every person who:
(3) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,
is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.



Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:33:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:35:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OdT:
Sigh



Have a beer OdT. Relax.

I have better ways to spend my money right now

-Rob
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:38:47 PM EDT
Henry Bowman would kick your ass for asking.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:39:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:40:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:40:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JAFO:
Henry Bowman would kick your ass for asking.



Mmmkay. That means nothing to me in this context.


RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

(16) "Barrel length" means the distance from the bolt face of a closed action down the length of the axis of the bore to the crown of the muzzle, or in the case of a barrel with attachments to the end of any legal device permanently attached to the end of the muzzle.



-Rob
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:42:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OdT:

But what's with the fascination of the letter of the law? Planning something big?




Well, I like to know what I'm talking about when I converse with people about random things. Thats not such a bad motivation.

-Rob

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:43:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:45:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OdT:

Fair enough....... just hope you're picking your battles. No one wins them all.




Ain't that the truth...boy.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 5:34:43 PM EDT
RCW 9.41.250

Dangerous weapons -- Penalty.
Every person who:

(1) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(3) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.



I wouldn't want to try to defend a mounted suppressor in court. If you even pick up a weapon with a suppressor mounted to it, you could be considered "using" it.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 5:42:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
RCW 9.41.250

Dangerous weapons -- Penalty.
Every person who:

(1) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(3) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.



I wouldn't want to try to defend a mounted suppressor in court. If you even pick up a weapon with a suppressor mounted to it, you could be considered "using" it.




To me, that sentence also defines what "use" means. Uses (any contrivance or device) for suppressing the noise....... As long as you are not using it to suppress noise, then you aren't really using it.

What it means to me is rather unimportant though. What it means to the prosecutor, or rather what he could make the jury think it means is the important issue.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 5:57:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
RCW 9.41.250

Dangerous weapons -- Penalty.
Every person who:

(1) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(3) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.



I wouldn't want to try to defend a mounted suppressor in court. If you even pick up a weapon with a suppressor mounted to it, you could be considered "using" it.





CRIMES ‑- FIREARMS





It is not unlawful under RCW 9.41.250 to merely possess a device for suppressing the noise of a firearm.

August 30, 1988

Honorable Kent Pullen

State Senator, 47th District

Institutions Building

Olympia, Washington 98504

Cite as: AGO 1988 No. 16

Dear Senator Pullen:

By letter previously acknowledged, you have asked for our opinion on a question we have paraphrased as follows:

Is it unlawful under RCW 9.41.250 to possess a device for suppressing the noise of a firearm?

We answer your question in the negative for the reasons set forth in our analysis.

ANALYSIS

RCW 9.41.250, the provision about which you have inquired, provides:

Every person who shall manufacture, sell or dispose of or have in his possession any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement; who shall furtively carry with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or who shall use any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm, shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

In essence, your question is concerned with whether the term "use" in the underscored language of RCW 9.41.250 includes mere possession of a noise suppression device. Absent a statutory definition, words in a statute are to be given their ordinary meaning. Davis v. Department of Empl. Sec., 108 Wn.2d 272, 737 P.2d 1262 (1987). The ordinary meaning of the term "use" is to put a thing into service or action. Webster's Third New International Dictionary, 2523-2524 (1981). Thus, the use of a device for suppressing the noise of a firearm contemplates employing that device or putting it into service. Although use of such a device may be incident to possession, use is quite different from simply possessing the device or exercising control over it.

In our opinion, the language of RCW 9.41.250 about which you have inquired is unambiguous. It does not prohibit mere possession of a device to suppress the noise of a firearm.

Even if the term "use" in RCW 9.41.250 were ambiguous, rules of statutory construction would dictate against interpreting the term to include mere possession. First, RCW 9.41.250 is a criminal statute. Where two reasonable constructions of a criminal statute are possible, a court is required to adopt the interpretation most favorable to a person accused of violating the statute. State v. Gore, 101 Wn.2d 481, 681 P.2d 227 (1984). Here, of course, that would be an interpretation excluding mere possession. Second, where the Legislature employs certain language in one part of a statute and different language in another part, a difference in legislative intent is indicated. United Parcel Serv., Inc. v. Department of Rev., 102 Wn.2d 355, 687 P.2d 186 (1984). The Legislature has employed the term "possession" in RCW 9.41.250 and thereby has made mere possession of certain weapons a misdemeanor. The Legislature did not employ that same term with reference to noise suppression devices. According to this rule of construction, the Legislature's failure to do so indicates that is did not intend "use" to include mere possession.

We trust that the foregoing will be of assistance to you.

Sincerely,

KENNETH O. EIKENBERRY

Attorney General


MAUREEN HART

Sr. Assistant Attorney General


Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:06:00 PM EDT
OK so an AGO on the topic says aye. It's O.K. Well that makes me feel a little better.


I myself don't have money to waste on such an endeavour but I appreciate the responses.


Phil to the rescue


-Rob
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:12:07 PM EDT
Ok, let's get a lot of things straight here. Tons of mis-information out there regarding suppressors and SBR barrel lengths.

First, let's address the suppressor issue. It is 100% legal to OWN, POSSESS and MOUNT a suppressor to any firearm in the state of Washington. It is only illegal to use it. By definition, use of supressor means you must actually FIRE the weapon with the suppressor attached. Otherwise, the suppressor is not in use. Having a suppressor attached to a weapon is NOT a gray area at all with regards to the law. There are plenty of intergrally supressed weapons in the state of Washington. If attaching a suppressor to a firearm was illegal, then those could not be possessed.

Using a suppressor is a gross misdemeanor. I've covered that ad nauseaum in previous posts. So, if someone fires a suppressed weapon in the woods, and no one sees them, did they actually do it? Hard to say. I'm not advocating breaking the law (to remain within the CoC) however.

Secondly, if you permanently attach a suppressor to a firearm, then the overall length of the barrel includes the length of the barrel AND the suppressor. Even if the barrel of the AR is only 11.5", so long as the permanently attached suppressor meets the minium legal length, you are good to go. This is IDENTICAL to having a 14.5" barrel with a permanently attached flash hider that meets the 16" minimum barrel length requirement. It is no different. Same thing with the 11.5" barrel with the 5.5" flash hiders. Overall length of the "fixed" barrel is what matters, not the indiviual components that make up the system. (Aside: the minimum recommended barrel length for an AR with a suppressor is 11.5" to prevent baffle strikes. Not to say a 10.5" couldn't be used, but places like Gemtech won't honor the warranty on anything shorter than 11.5".)

Now, during the AWB, you could not attach a suppressor to a post ban weapon, because the suppressor is an effective flash hider. Having an attached suppressor AT THAT TIME to a POST BAN weapon would have been illegal (your evil parts count would be 3.) That is the only instance I can think of in the state of Washington whereby attaching a suppressor to an AR would violate the law. Since the AWB has met its timely demise, no such restrictions exist any longer.

Finally, if YOU feel that attaching a suppressor isn't legal, then you don't have to do it. It is all about what you feel comfortable with. I've got 3 suppressors, soon to be 4. They are all currently attached to host weapons as they sit in my safe. And you know what? If I have to use my AR to defend my family while at home, I'm damn sure using the suppressor! The gross misdemeanor, should I ever be charged (unlikely) would be well worth the reduced impact on my children's hearing and well being....
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