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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/3/2005 5:56:49 AM EDT
Are FTF/Private gun sales in IL legal?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:52:21 AM EDT
yes
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 7:42:49 AM EDT
Waiting period rules apply, must possess FOID, have to keep record of transfer, etc...

http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/firearms052104.pdf
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 9:51:16 AM EDT
The back of the FOID card has almost everything you need to know.

I don't think it mentions the waiting periods, but they are required.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 8:34:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 8:38:28 PM EDT by Lazyshooter]
What I don't understand is, when would a waiting period begin for a ftf transfer? At the point where you may win an online auction? At the point you would pay for an item? At the point you would first present your FOID to a seller? What if you live a distance away from someone and pay them through the mail and then make a long drive to see the person you bought from. Would you have to make two trips? The dealer has you fill out the form, and then calls it in and so begins the waiting period, but since ftf doesn't work that way, it's confusing, to say the least.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:11:45 AM EDT
The waiting period would begin at the time the two of you "make the sale" which is the simple agreement that you will pay him x amount of money and he will sell you the gun for it. It can be a phone transaction. Seller is required to verify identity and see valid FOID at time of exchange. So you can finalize it all on the phone, email or whatever, but transfer must be at least 72 hours afterwards.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:56:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By npd233:
The waiting period would begin at the time the two of you "make the sale" which is the simple agreement that you will pay him x amount of money and he will sell you the gun for it. It can be a phone transaction. Seller is required to verify identity and see valid FOID at time of exchange. So you can finalize it all on the phone, email or whatever, but transfer must be at least 72 hours afterwards.



or 24hrs in case of a long gun.

You both will need a copy of the receipt with your names, the gun make, model, and serial numbers, date, Foid numbers, and experation dates.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:41:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drobs:

Originally Posted By npd233:
The waiting period would begin at the time the two of you "make the sale" which is the simple agreement that you will pay him x amount of money and he will sell you the gun for it. It can be a phone transaction. Seller is required to verify identity and see valid FOID at time of exchange. So you can finalize it all on the phone, email or whatever, but transfer must be at least 72 hours afterwards.



or 24hrs in case of a long gun.

You both will need a copy of the receipt with your names, the gun make, model, and serial numbers, date, Foid numbers, and experation dates.



Yeah that's what I meant... I assumed he was talking about handguns since he said gun not rifle hehe.

IIRC only the Seller is required to maintain the transfer information, and needs to keep it for ten years.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 10:30:49 AM EDT
For FTF I dont think the waiting period applies...
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 11:06:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrDeath:
For FTF I dont think the waiting period applies...



While you're sitting there thinking it doesn't, we're sitting here knowing it does. You just had an attorney, a police officer and a veteran gun shop employee all tell you. The attorney even provided you the specific link to the Illinois State Police website where you can view their brochure outlining the law. I'll make the link hot for you:

Illinois State Police "Acquiring or Transferring Firearms In Illinois" Brochure

It's a Class 4 Felony to fail to observe the waiting period prior to sale/delivery of a firearm in IL.

There's a reason there are links at the top of this forum to the Illinois laws pertaining to firearms ownership and use. It is so those of us who appreciate them have the tools to know the rules within which to operate, in order not to give those who would have them taken from us fodder with which to accomplish their mission.

Here's the criminal law you would violate if you fail to observe the waiting period:

720 ILCS 5/24-3(A)(g)

(720 ILCS 5/24 3) (from Ch. 38, par. 24 3)
Sec. 24 3. Unlawful Sale of Firearms.
(A) A person commits the offense of unlawful sale of firearms when he or she knowingly does any of the following:

(a) Sells or gives any firearm of a size which may be concealed upon the person to any person under 18 years of age.

(b) Sells or gives any firearm to a person under 21years of age who has been convicted of a misdemeanor other than a traffic offense or adjudged delinquent.

(c) Sells or gives any firearm to any narcotic addict.


(d) Sells or gives any firearm to any person who has been convicted of a felony under the laws of this or any other jurisdiction.

(e) Sells or gives any firearm to any person who has been a patient in a mental hospital within the past 5 years.

(f) Sells or gives any firearms to any person who is
mentally retarded.

(g) Delivers any firearm of a size which may be concealed upon the person, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of such firearm for at least 72 hours after application for its purchase has been made, or delivers any rifle, shotgun or other long gun, or a stun gun or taser, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of such rifle, shotgun or other long gun, or a stun gun or taser for at least 24 hours after application for its purchase has been made. However, this paragraph (g) does not apply to: (1) the sale of a firearm to a law enforcement officer or a person who desires to purchase a firearm for use in promoting the public interest incident to his or her employment as a bank guard, armed truck guard, or other similar employment; (2) a mail order sale of a firearm to a nonresident of Illinois under which the firearm is mailed to a point outside the boundaries of Illinois; (3) the sale of a firearm to a nonresident of Illinois while at a firearm showing or display recognized by the Illinois Department of State Police; or (4) the sale of a firearm to a dealer licensed as a federal firearms dealer under Section 923 of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (18 U.S.C. 923).

(h) While holding any license as a dealer, importer, manufacturer or pawnbroker under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, manufactures, sells or delivers to any unlicensed person a handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver which is a die casting of zinc alloy or any other nonhomogeneous metal which will melt or deform at a temperature of less than 800 degrees Fahrenheit. For purposes of this paragraph, (1) "firearm" is defined as in the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act; and (2) "handgun" is defined as a firearm designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand, and includes a combination of parts from which such a firearm can be assembled.

(i) Sells or gives a firearm of any size to any person under 18 years of age who does not possess a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card.

(j) Sells or gives a firearm while engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail without being licensed as a federal firearms dealer under Section 923 of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (18 U.S.C. 923). In this paragraph (j):

A person "engaged in the business" means a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in the activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but does not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms. "With the principal objective of livelihood and profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection; however, proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism.

(k) Sells or transfers ownership of a firearm to a person who does not display to the seller or transferor of the firearm a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card that has previously been issued in the transferee's name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. This paragraph (k) does not apply to the transfer of a firearm to a person who is exempt from the requirement of possessing a Firearm Owner's Identification Card under Section 2 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. For the purposes of this Section, a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card means (i) a Firearm Owner's Identification Card that has not expired or (ii) if the transferor is licensed as a federal firearms dealer under Section 923 of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (18 U.S.C. 923), an approval number issued in accordance with Section 3.1 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act shall be proof that the Firearm Owner's Identification Card was valid.

(B) Paragraph (h) of subsection (A) does not include firearms sold within 6 months after enactment of Public Act 78 355 (approved August 21, 1973, effective October 1, 1973), nor is any firearm legally owned or possessed by any citizen or purchased by any citizen within 6 months after the enactment of Public Act 78 355 subject to confiscation or seizure under the provisions of that Public Act. Nothing in Public Act 78 355 shall be construed to prohibit the gift or trade of any firearm if that firearm was legally held or acquired within 6 months after the enactment of that Public Act.

(C) Sentence.
(1) Any person convicted of unlawful sale of firearms in violation of any of paragraphs (c) through (h) of subsection (A) commits a Class 4 felony.

(2) Any person convicted of unlawful sale of firearms in violation of paragraph (b) or (i) of subsection (A) commits a Class 3 felony.

(3) Any person convicted of unlawful sale of firearms in violation of paragraph (a) of subsection (A) commits a Class 2 felony.

(4) Any person convicted of unlawful sale of firearms in violation of paragraph (a), (b), or (i) of subsection (A) in any school, on the real property comprising a school, within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising a school, at a school related activity, or on or within 1,000 feet of any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a school or school district to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, regardless of the time of day or time of year at which the offense was committed, commits a Class 1 felony. Any person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of unlawful sale of firearms in violation of paragraph (a), (b), or (i) of subsection (A) in any school, on the real property comprising a school, within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising a school, at a school related activity, or on or within 1,000 feet of any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a school or school district to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, regardless of the time of day or time of year at which the offense was committed, commits a Class 1 felony for which the sentence shall be a term of imprisonment of no less than 5 years and no more than 15 years.

(5) Any person convicted of unlawful sale of firearms in violation of paragraph (a) or (i) of subsection (A) in residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed income development, in a public park, in a courthouse, on residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed income development, on the real property comprising any public park, on the real property comprising any courthouse, or on any public way within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising any public park, courthouse, or residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed income development commits a Class 2 felony.

(6) Any person convicted of unlawful sale of firearms in violation of paragraph (j) of subsection (A) commits a Class A misdemeanor. A second or subsequent violation is a Class 4 felony.

(7) Any person convicted of unlawful sale of firearms in violation of paragraph (k) of subsection (A) commits a Class 4 felony. A third or subsequent conviction for a violation of paragraph (k) of subsection (A) is a Class 1 felony.

(D) For purposes of this Section:
"School" means a public or private elementary or secondary school, community college, college, or university.
"School related activity" means any sporting, social, academic, or other activity for which students' attendance or participation is sponsored, organized, or funded in whole or in part by a school or school district.
(E) A prosecution for a violation of paragraph (k) of subsection (A) of this Section may be commenced within 6 years after the commission of the offense. A prosecution for a violation of this Section other than paragraph (g) of subsection (A) of this Section may be commenced within 5 years after the commission of the offense defined in the particular paragraph.
(Source: P.A. 93 162, eff. 7 10 03; 93 906, eff. 8 11 04; 94 6, eff. 1 1 06.)



This pretty much answers your entire question. Yes, FTF sales are legal. The above quoted law tells you everything you need to know about when the transfer can take place.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 11:22:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrDeath:
For FTF I dont think the waiting period applies...



I thought the same thing (not that I'm doubting anyone). Has it always been this way or is this something that was recently implemented? Is this the law that was just passed that is supposed to close the "Gun show loophole"?

M590man
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:45:10 PM EDT
How would a waiting period apply- are we to call the state police & have the buyers FOID # run?
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:03:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 1:04:05 PM EDT by npd233]

Originally Posted By DrDeath:
How would a waiting period apply- are we to call the state police & have the buyers FOID # run?



You simply wait -- 72 hours for handgun, 24 hours for long gun -- after you agree to the sale. Then complete it after you verify the buyer's FOID is valid by looking at it and comparing the photo to the buyer and making sure it's not expired, and making written documentation of the buyer's info including FOID #. That's all a private seller need do.

The gunshow loophole was closed by requiring all gunshow sellers to phone in to ISP to get approval before selling a firearm, instead of just FFL's as has previously been the standard.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 3:14:57 PM EDT
I get the feeling reading comprehension is lacking today.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:57:10 AM EDT
I was aware of the wait for sales from an FFL, but not from individuals. Good thing I've initiated all my sales by phone or FTF in advance by at least 24 hours (72 for HG's).

Too bad the waiting period couldn't have been waived with a call-in. I'm surprised the powerful ISRA/NRA folks here in IL let that one get by. We all know how much pull they have in Springfield.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:16:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tango7:
I was aware of the wait for sales from an FFL, but not from individuals. Good thing I've initiated all my sales by phone or FTF in advance by at least 24 hours (72 for HG's).

Too bad the waiting period couldn't have been waived with a call-in. I'm surprised the powerful ISRA/NRA folks here in IL let that one get by. We all know how much pull they have in Springfield.



Maybe they're just pulling the wrong things while they're in Springfield.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:51:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By npd233:

Originally Posted By DrDeath:
For FTF I dont think the waiting period applies...



While you're sitting there thinking it doesn't, we're sitting here knowing it does. You just had an attorney, a police officer and a veteran gun shop employee all tell you. The attorney even provided you the specific link to the Illinois State Police website where you can view their brochure outlining the law. I'll make the link hot for you:

Illinois State Police "Acquiring or Transferring Firearms In Illinois" Brochure




Yeah, but .........what if I wanted to sell my Jennings Nine to the meth-head next door and he needs it today .........and he has the $45 in cash?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:56:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Oslow:

Originally Posted By npd233:

Originally Posted By DrDeath:
For FTF I dont think the waiting period applies...



While you're sitting there thinking it doesn't, we're sitting here knowing it does. You just had an attorney, a police officer and a veteran gun shop employee all tell you. The attorney even provided you the specific link to the Illinois State Police website where you can view their brochure outlining the law. I'll make the link hot for you:

Illinois State Police "Acquiring or Transferring Firearms In Illinois" Brochure




Yeah, but .........what if I wanted to sell my Jennings Nine to the meth-head next door and he needs it today .........and he has the $45 in cash?



Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:36:45 PM EDT
When doing a FTF in Illinois, I always make up a receipt that shows the date of sale and the date the gun was picked. This shows that both parties complied to the law regarding waiting periods.

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:43:10 AM EDT
Roadhawk , my tommato poles are used for fishing or used as sinkers. They always are over the boat. They make good planer boards to get Cranks overboard,and deep enough.

Them walleye have teeth ,the bass hit like a SOB, I hate deep snags, yeah, over there is where I lost them, that strip pit or was it the the il. river near starved Rock, or the big Muddy?

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:59:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrDeath:
For FTF I dont think the waiting period applies...



YES YOU do Have a waiting on a FTF.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 9:03:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
When doing a FTF in Illinois, I always make up a receipt that shows the date of sale and the date the gun was picked. This shows that both parties complied to the law regarding waiting periods.





yes that the way to do it...
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