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Posted: 9/19/2009 3:00:46 PM EST
What does everyone feel about open carry? I understand a person has the legal right, but do any of you do this? At the gun show in Hutchinson today I noticed several people who were open carrying. Is it socially acceptable because they are at a gun show? I could tell some of these people do not carry on a regular basis.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 5:12:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 5:26:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Out in the boonies is one thing or at the range, but why invite trouble into your life


I agree.

However on this side of the river we are finally allowed to carry in the open, we still do not have CCW, but it is a start. I just read in paper that a pro-gun open carry picnic is plan for Hudson in October and the police chief doesn't have a problem with it at all. This will be the second open carry picnic; the last one had around 350 people in attendance.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 6:05:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Out in the boonies is one thing or at the range, but why invite trouble into your life


Ditto!

I think it is senseless to troll for unneeded attention! And, then you see the people with cheap Fobus Holsters, Shoulder Holsters with so many straps hanging loose, and the best yet......expensive guns in cheap ass nylone holsters.............................
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 1:52:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Out in the boonies is one thing or at the range, but why invite trouble into your life


+2
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 3:50:52 AM EST
agreed, why show your hand until you have too
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:09:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By UZI4you:
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Out in the boonies is one thing or at the range, but why invite trouble into your life


I agree.

However on this side of the river we are finally allowed to carry in the open, we still do not have CCW, but it is a start. I just read in paper that a pro-gun open carry picnic is plan for Hudson in October and the police chief doesn't have a problem with it at all. This will be the second open carry picnic; the last one had around 350 people in attendance.



I saw a post in GD about people getting arrested for OCing in Wisc, but never clicked on the post. I always hated unloading and locking up my carry gun before I got to the border when making a beer run on Sundays. Nice to see you guys finally got something, when was the law passed?

Don

Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:38:46 AM EST
I like to think that conceiling is my way of making sure that I will always have the upper hand. I don't know of any reason why I would open carry in public.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 8:41:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By DonMn:
Originally Posted By UZI4you:
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Out in the boonies is one thing or at the range, but why invite trouble into your life


I agree.

However on this side of the river we are finally allowed to carry in the open, we still do not have CCW, but it is a start. I just read in paper that a pro-gun open carry picnic is plan for Hudson in October and the police chief doesn't have a problem with it at all. This will be the second open carry picnic; the last one had around 350 people in attendance.



I saw a post in GD about people getting arrested for OCing in Wisc, but never clicked on the post. I always hated unloading and locking up my carry gun before I got to the border when making a beer run on Sundays. Nice to see you guys finally got something, when was the law passed?

Don




Our new Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen a supporter of CCW sent out a memorandum in April of this year advising state prosecutors not to charge people for open carry.

¶1. Under Article I, § 25 of the Wisconsin Constitution, a person has the right to openly carry a firearm for any of the purposes enumerated in that Section, subject to reasonable regulation as discussed herein. The Wisconsin Department of Justice (the Department) believes that the mere open carrying of a firearm by a person, absent additional facts and circumstances, should not result in a disorderly conduct charge from a prosecutor.

This is a good step because hunters especially in shotgun/handgun zones were stopped for OC. I had a customer who was in his 70s with a heart condition who needs to walk everyday to control his blood pressure and his diabetes, where he lives there is very large hill that he does not have the strength to climb so he had to walk around it. His walk around the hill was around a farm with a very vicious dog, that attacked him twice, once pushing him to the ground biting his arm. He talked to the dog owner who was not helpful so he talked to police, he told the police about his health problems and why needs to walk and about the dog attack. He said that next time he was going to bring along a pistol to defend himself.

The police said if you are spotted carrying a firearm you will be arrested and charged with disorderly conduct.

This is why AG Van Hollen issued this memo is because WI has had OC on the books for many years but people could not do so because local LEO and DAs would press charges for DC for simply carrying.

Now I would say this is a great step in the right direction, there still is some wiggle room for the local LEO to press charges for OC, but the AG now says the state must prove that you were acting in a disorderly manor AND were carry a firearm.

¶7. The same concepts should apply to handguns. The state constitutional right to bear arms extends to openly carrying a handgun for lawful purposes. As illustrated by a recent municipal court case in West Allis, a person openly carrying a holstered handgun on his own property while doing lawn work should not face a disorderly conduct charge.5 If, however, a person brandishes a handgun in public, the conduct may lose its constitutional protection. Again, “[i]t is the combination of conduct and circumstances that is crucial in applying the [disorderly conduct] statute to a particular situation.” Maker, 48 Wis. 2d at 616.
¶8. Finally, several law enforcement agencies have asked whether, in light of Article I, § 25, they may stop a person openly carrying a firearm in public to investigate possible criminal activity, including disorderly conduct. We say yes. An officer may stop and briefly detain a person for investigative purposes (known as an investigative or Terry stop) if he has “reasonable suspicion,” based on articulable facts, of criminal activity. Illinois v. Wardlow, 528 U.S. 119, 123 (2000); United States v. Sokolow, 490 U.S. 1, 7 (1989); Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 30 (1968). The existence of reasonable suspicion depends on the totality of the circumstances, including the information known to the officer and any reasonable inferences to be drawn at the time of the stop. United States v. Arvizu, 544 U.S. 266 (2002) (reaffirming “totality of the circumstances” test). Even though open carry enjoys constitutional protection, it may still give rise to reasonable suspicion when considered in totality. It is not a shield against police investigation or subsequent prosecution. See State v. Anderson, 155 Wis. 2d 77, 84, 454 N.W.2d 763 (1990) (police officers not required to first eliminate the possibility of innocent behavior before making investigatory stop).

I still haven't OC in public, one I do not have the appropriate holster, two I did not want to be the first person in town to "test out" AG's new memo. I am pleased to see the Hudson Police chief publicly state that he does not see any problems with a Open Carry event.

Don if you are ever in Hudson on a Sunday for a beer run stop on by for a trip to the range.

Chris

Link Posted: 9/20/2009 9:25:31 AM EST
they don't let people carry at gun shows in the cities, I never seem to see the signs until I leave though..

as far as open carrying goes, I don't but at times wish I had a holster so I could, yes it can attract problems form people who freak out and potentially from someone who wants to steal your gun. but it also deters any potential muggers or other low life criminal from messing with you. they see it and know you mean business.

it also gives bad guys a nice little reminder that there are people out there willing to do what is necessary to protect themselves.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 12:14:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By zimpete:
What does everyone feel about open carry? I understand a person has the legal right, but do any of you do this? At the gun show in Hutchinson today I noticed several people who were open carrying. Is it socially acceptable because they are at a gun show? I could tell some of these people do not carry on a regular basis.


BINGO!
Link Posted: 9/23/2009 9:53:37 PM EST
hey I'm new here. Is open carry allowed in MN? I thought the only carry options were for ccw permit holders.
Is there a website that explains the handgun carrying laws in Minnesota that uses clear, plain, English, and not the confusing garble of 'legal speak'
Specifically, I carry my pistol to the range in a case, with no lock, the pistol is unloaded, but there are always 2 loaded magazines in the pistol case. I've searched for the rules in MN but all I get are pages and pages of lawyerspeak that is unintelligible to me.
Link Posted: 9/23/2009 10:45:34 PM EST
open carry is legal if you have a permit, not sure if it is with out one though. if you don't have a permit and you have it in your car it must be in a case, unloaded and inaccessible to any one in the vehicle. loaded mags in the case probably aren't a problem, and if the cops find out about a loaded mag in the case odds are you are in trouble already.


Link Posted: 9/24/2009 12:28:13 PM EST
as far as i can remember you can only carry, whether that be OC or concealed with a permit.

for me personally i tend to carry concealed most of the time, however from time to time i OC not to really get a rise out of anyone,
but more to use the rights that i have, and to remind folks that there are honest individuals out there that can be
responsible with firearms.

it seems to help when i am dressed in nice jeans and a polo while OC, most people think i am in law enforcement and i dont
get hassled ever.....yet
Link Posted: 9/24/2009 4:56:52 PM EST
You cannot open carry without a carry permit (unless in your home, on your own property, ect). Some information can be found here http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/Documents/CarryPermit/PermittoCarry.html

The Minnesota permit is a permit to carry, not a conceal and carry permit. The carry permit allows you to carry a firearm (rifle, pistol, or shotgun) either openly or concealed. However, be advised that transporting a loaded, uncased rifle or shotgun is a violation of fish and game laws and the penalties associated with it.
Link Posted: 9/24/2009 5:04:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By 2bsss:
You cannot open carry without a carry permit (unless in your home, on your own property, ect). Some information can be found here http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/Documents/CarryPermit/PermittoCarry.html

The Minnesota permit is a permit to carry, not a conceal and carry permit. The carry permit allows you to carry a firearm (rifle, pistol, or shotgun) either openly or concealed. However, be advised that transporting a loaded, uncased rifle or shotgun is a violation of fish and game laws and the penalties associated with it.


Right on. However, there was a change to the DNR rules about cased firearms this year. Still have to be unloaded, but not necessarily cased. See the DNR website for specifics.
Link Posted: 10/8/2009 5:56:05 PM EST
Why does my permit say "Permit to carry a PISTOL"?

I think some are confused that it means they can pack anything they want. NOT true as far as I know.



Originally Posted By husker95:
Originally Posted By 2bsss:
You cannot open carry without a carry permit (unless in your home, on your own property, ect). Some information can be found here http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/Documents/CarryPermit/PermittoCarry.html

The Minnesota permit is a permit to carry, not a conceal and carry permit. The carry permit allows you to carry a firearm (rifle, pistol, or shotgun) either openly or concealed. However, be advised that transporting a loaded, uncased rifle or shotgun is a violation of fish and game laws and the penalties associated with it.


Right on. However, there was a change to the DNR rules about cased firearms this year. Still have to be unloaded, but not necessarily cased. See the DNR website for specifics.


Link Posted: 10/8/2009 8:03:06 PM EST
Why does my permit say "Permit to carry a PISTOL"?

I think some are confused that it means they can pack anything they want. NOT true as far as I know.

––
Then it is time to learn something new!

There is a provision in the law regarding the carrying of a loaded long gun in public....that it is NOT legal UNLESS pursuant to the permit law. This has been discussed at great length in the two main gun fora in the State, and there is written confirmation from the State that it is legal to carry a loaded long gun in public in MN. However, you cannot transport the long gun when loaded.

See MN Statutes 624.7181....clearly legal.

Wise? That is perhaps a different issue!
Link Posted: 10/9/2009 5:16:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By phorvick:
Why does my permit say "Permit to carry a PISTOL"?

I think some are confused that it means they can pack anything they want. NOT true as far as I know.

––
Then it is time to learn something new!

There is a provision in the law regarding the carrying of a loaded long gun in public....that it is NOT legal UNLESS pursuant to the permit law. This has been discussed at great length in the two main gun fora in the State, and there is written confirmation from the State that it is legal to carry a loaded long gun in public in MN. However, you cannot transport the long gun when loaded.
See MN Statutes 624.7181....clearly legal.

Wise? That is perhaps a different issue!


LOL... that would look super... so you pull up to your local Walmart, bet out go to your trunk and pull out your Riot 870 and proceed to load it up. It would be fun to sit back and wait to see how many squads come, and if they just shoot you or if they talk first! Terrible law IMHO
Link Posted: 10/9/2009 5:21:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2009 6:17:05 AM EST by phorvick]
Originally Posted By SBRguy:
Originally Posted By phorvick:
Why does my permit say "Permit to carry a PISTOL"?

I think some are confused that it means they can pack anything they want. NOT true as far as I know.

––
Then it is time to learn something new!

There is a provision in the law regarding the carrying of a loaded long gun in public....that it is NOT legal UNLESS pursuant to the permit law. This has been discussed at great length in the two main gun fora in the State, and there is written confirmation from the State that it is legal to carry a loaded long gun in public in MN. However, you cannot transport the long gun when loaded.
See MN Statutes 624.7181....clearly legal.

Wise? That is perhaps a different issue!


LOL... that would look super... so you pull up to your local Walmart, bet out go to your trunk and pull out your Riot 870 and proceed to load it up. It would be fun to sit back and wait to see how many squads come, and if they just shoot you or if they talk first! Terrible law IMHO


Well, I would opine that it is an excellent law. It allows hunters that are away from their vehicle and stumble into Flom, MN, to be legal as they use the rest room and buy a Pepsi.
Link Posted: 10/9/2009 8:50:24 AM EST
Just to spread the idea that it is perfectly acceptable to open carry a long gun in public is irresponsible, IMHO. There is a big difference between carrying for hunting and for self defense. Carrying for hunting does not require a CCW permit. Carrying for self-defense does not apply when discussing DNR rules and the carrying of shotguns or rifles for that purpose. Mix those two up at your own peril...
Link Posted: 10/9/2009 9:05:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
Just to spread the idea that it is perfectly acceptable to open carry a long gun in public is irresponsible, IMHO. There is a big difference between carrying for hunting and for self defense. Carrying for hunting does not require a CCW permit. Carrying for self-defense does not apply when discussing DNR rules and the carrying of shotguns or rifles for that purpose. Mix those two up at your own peril...


The issue is not whether it is wise, or perfectly acceptable. The issue was is it legal. Yes it is.

I would agree that if this were done as some sort of protest or tactic under the guise of "it's legal", that it may not be legal once the legislature takes it up.

Again, it is not against the law. Wise? Well, we agree there....seems pretty unwise.
Link Posted: 10/9/2009 12:27:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2009 2:59:32 PM EST by Wormfood]
deleted
Link Posted: 10/9/2009 2:19:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2009 3:05:16 PM EST by Wormfood]
I'll check with Deb Martin, LE instructor. Knows almost every statute by heart. I see the part where it say's its legal, but looks iffy to me.
Link Posted: 10/9/2009 7:22:33 PM EST
I'm sure it is legal to stick your penis into a light socket too, but I'll pass on that as well...
Link Posted: 10/10/2009 6:52:02 PM EST
I gotta think it's NOT legal in or near any city. As much as it would be nice to be able to have a loaded 870 14" in the car/truck..... or a nice SBR AR..... I just dont see it as possible.... unless you move to MT or several other Western States.

Link Posted: 10/11/2009 2:16:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By SBRguy:
I gotta think it's NOT legal in or near any city. As much as it would be nice to be able to have a loaded 870 14" in the car/truck..... or a nice SBR AR..... I just dont see it as possible.... unless you move to MT or several other Western States.



Do not confuse carry with trasport. The MN DNR has put in writing that "carrying" a loaded long gun is withn the law IF you have a permit. However, it is not legal in MN to "transport" a loaded long gun.

My insistance on rehashing the legality has nothing...nada...zilc..-0- to do with whether it is wise. Given our current culture, one can make a good argument that the timing is not right for open carry in general, and certainly not right for openly carrying a long gun. I do not disagree with that. My issue is that some in law enforcement (well, actually I believe it is "many", not "some") do not know the nuances of the carry law and could arrest/detain someone without lawful cause. I have talked to many in law enforcement in smaller comunities that believe it is a "conceal" law; that the signs have teeth; that you cannot carry into a bar or church etc. I just think that when a question comes up on "is something legal", that the question deserves the correct answer.

So, again....legal...yes. Wise? Probably not.

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:54:45 PM EST
Here is a question for you all.
I have my Utah CCW Permit. I'm in the process of getting the MN permit to carry. Not that I'm going to, Can I open carry with only the Utah Permit?

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:36:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By JimsZR2:
Here is a question for you all.
I have my Utah CCW Permit. I'm in the process of getting the MN permit to carry. Not that I'm going to, Can I open carry with only the Utah Permit?


yes, the only thing the Utah permit doesn't do is act as a permit to purchase.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:26:25 PM EST
I wasn't aware that Minnesota accepted any other state's permit. I was surprised when I went to www.handgunlaw.us. I saw there was quite a few of them. I hadn't kept up whose permits Minnesota honored for quite some time. The last time I checked they didn't honor anybodies.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 5:47:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By phorvick:
<...> So, again....legal...yes. Wise? Probably not.

It must get boring having to repeat the same thing over and over.

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