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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/13/2005 1:38:04 PM EDT
Was there something that passed in Texas Laws that now says my employer DOES NOT have the right to prohibit me from keeping my handgun in my car If I have a CHL?

Or am i high on crack?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 2:25:28 PM EDT
Did not pass due to too few gun owners lobbying their State Reps and urging its passage.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 2:39:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 2:39:59 PM EDT by DVDTracker]
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 2:49:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DVDTracker:
They already are not allowed to prohibit you from keeping it in your car. You're not allowed to carry on the premises, and according to the law concerning CHL holders, here's what a premises is:




46.035 (f) (3)
Premises" means a building or a portion of a
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area.



Their parking lot is not part of the premises that applies to you.

www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.010.00.000046.00.htm#46.03.00



That definition ONLY applies to premises listed under 46.03 and 46.035, NOT to private employers. A private employer CAN restrict employees from having a firearm in the car on private company property.

You missed this part of the definition of premises that you quoted.


Text
(f) In this section:


(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building.
The term does not include any public or private driveway, street,
sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking
area.


Gotta be careful there.

Premises has the common definition when not specifically defined.

prem·ise ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prms)
n. also prem·iss (prms)
A proposition upon which an argument is based or from which a conclusion is drawn.
Logic.

One of the propositions in a deductive argument.

Either the major or the minor proposition of a syllogism, from which the conclusion is drawn.
premises Law. The preliminary or explanatory statements or facts of a document, as in a deed.
premises

Land and the buildings on it.

A building or part of a building.


Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:17:09 PM EDT
What they don't know won't hurt them....

CMOS
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:23:58 PM EDT
I saw the law, but it did not pass. Would be very nice, though, as my employer does have the 'no guns' policy that includes private vehicles.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:46:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CMOS:
What they don't know won't hurt them....

CMOS


+1
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:48:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:23:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DVDTracker:
30.06 (e) covers the private property section and makes reference to the definition of premises in 46.03 and 46.035. www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.007.00.000030.00.htm#30.06.00



(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035



My CHL instructor told us the same thing, that basically a premises as it applies to a CHL holder while carrying a handgun only pertains to the building, not any parking lots or driveways.


Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and I've never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.



I am not sure what your point is, but premises only excludes parking areas and sidewalks for those areas listed under 46.03 and 46.035. In fact, a Private Employer does not have to give notice under 30.06 to keep you from having your gun on HIS property. A notice in an employee manual, contract, etc, is sufficent.

And I'll tell you what else, if a private property owner posts 30.06 in his parking lot then you cannot lawfully carry there.

The quote you posted does not refer to the definition of premises in 46.03 and 46.035. What it tells you is that even if a place owned or leased by a governmental entity posts a 30.06 sign, that you can carry there anyway UNLESS the place is already off limits under 46.03 or 46.035.

30.06 refers to "property" and if you look at all of it, when it gives definitions it does not define premises as having the meaning in 46.03 and 46.035.



Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:20:56 AM EDT
Ok, I've been outta the loop for a while now, (back in Kuwait), but, did the law pass that allows you to keep a gun in your car while driving without a CHL?

Just curious so I can tell my wife to bring my Sig with her when she picks up at the airport next month!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:53:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:04:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DVDTracker:
I asked my CHL instructor about this and here's what he said.


There are two different issues here:

Regardless of whether there are 30.06 signs posted or not, your
employer can tell you that you cannot have a gun in your car in the
company parking lot.
It's a condition of employment and totally separate from 30.06. Can
your employer search your car based on the fact you have an NRA
sticker on your car? No. About the only way an employer can fire you
for having a gun in your car is if you get it out and wave it
around. Even if the employer fires you for having a gun in your car,
even if they have 30.06 signs posted -- you've done nothing against
Texas law by having a gun in your car in the parking lot. All you've
done is violate company rules.

30.06 only covers "premises" which does not include the parking lot.
So even if you work for a company that has 30.06 signs posted, if I
come to visit you at your workplace, I can have a gun in my car in
the parking lot and I"m all legal provided I don't bring it in the building.

To summarize:

30.06 does NOT apply in parking lots anywhere anytime for anyone. Ever.
There are places that have 30.06-like signs in their parking lots.
Those signs have no legal standing and are actually in violation of
state law. They are essentially unenforceable.
That's like someone putting up their own "speed limit" sign along a
public roadway and trying to write tickets for people driving over
"their" speed limit even though they are within the state's speed
limit. It's not legal.

An employer can impose additional rules on employees. The only
penalties for violating company rules that go beyond state law are
between employee and employer and do not involve criminal charges.




Some employers claim they have permission from you to search your vehicle as a condition of employment.
While there are no criminal penalties associated with possessing a firearm in your car while at work, this does not protect you from work-related penalties including termination.

Personally, I have no recollection of waiving any rights when I hired on. I would certainly not agree to waive any rights in the future.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:48:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DVDTracker:
I asked my CHL instructor about this and here's what he said.


To summarize:

30.06 does NOT apply in parking lots anywhere anytime for anyone. Ever.




That is just plain incorrect. Pay attention to the wording of PC30.06, it uses the word "property", not "premises". Note also it is in Chapter 30, not 46.

I suggest you get a second opinion from someone a bit more qualified than a single CHL Instructor.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:27:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 1:27:59 PM EDT by eklikwhoa]

Originally Posted By s1rGr1nG0:
Ok, I've been outta the loop for a while now, (back in Kuwait), but, did the law pass that allows you to keep a gun in your car while driving without a CHL?

Just curious so I can tell my wife to bring my Sig with her when she picks up at the airport next month!



it went through but there are some DA's that say you will still be arrested if found in the car


here
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 3:19:32 AM EDT
I know that the supposedly great company of Halliburton gives you a visitor parking pass when you visit an employee. On the back of it, it says that concealed handguns and all firearms, even those possessed by CHL owners, are prohibited, even in vehicles. OF course it is not in the proper 30.06 format, so it is really not worth the paper it is written on, and there are no signs posted on the property. when you drive in. I will just take my chances if I go back, because they are in a neighborhood where there is no way I would go there unless I was armed. I find it rather ironic that a company like that makes it's money ( or a large part of it at least) from providing services to the men and women who are defending our country, refuses to let it's own men and women excercise their legal right to defend themselves. When I have pointed that out to my friend he works there, he vehemently defended the company's policy, saying that it is in place because someone could get pissed off and go out to the car, and return with a gun. I asked him, do you really think that someone who wants to go postal will pay any attention to that policy? Or even if he did honor the policy, what is stopping them from driving home, and then returning to work with a gun. And besides, how often does that happen besides the few well publicized cases that you hear about through the news.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 3:55:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By DVDTracker:
I asked my CHL instructor about this and here's what he said.


To summarize:

30.06 does NOT apply in parking lots anywhere anytime for anyone. Ever.




That is just plain incorrect. Pay attention to the wording of PC30.06, it uses the word "property", not "premises". Note also it is in Chapter 30, not 46.

I suggest you get a second opinion from someone a bit more qualified than a single CHL Instructor.



I agree with renegade on this. DVD Tracker, if you actually asked your CHL instructor then he is dead wrong. Where on earth did he get the notion that a private employer posting 30.06 in a parking lot he is violating state law. Thats just incorrect.

I am looking at the law AND the CHL Instructor's material right in front of me. If an employer tells you you by an written means, (and it does not have to be 30.06 compliant) that firearms are prohibited on company PROPERTY, then you are not only subject to termination if you have the firearm in your vehicle, but you are in violation of 30.06.

30.06 does not cover "premises". it covers PROPERTY.

Here is the law.

§30.06. Trespass by holder of license to carry concealed handgun.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H,
Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without
effective consent; and

(2) received notice that:

(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a
concealed handgun was forbidden; or

(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.


Period, end of story.

Now we look further;

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if
the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act
for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written
communication.


So if a person in charge gives you oral OR written notice, then you have received the required notice.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).

(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical
to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by
holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may
not enter this property with a concealed handgun";


That means if you are give a card or other document that states as above, you have received written communication. That includes a company policy statement, rules manual, etc. It could even include a flyer that a business owner hands to you.

Written communication ALSO includes;

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both
English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at
least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.



There you have it. The law.

The only exception to this is as follows;

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.


That means if the place is a government owned or leased location that is NOT listed under 46.03 or 46.035, then they should not post 30.06, and if they do you are not in violation for carrying there. In other words, a DPS office cannot post a 30.06 sign and enforce it. Or you City Hall, if no courts are there, cannot post 30.06 and enforce it.

I don't know how to explain it any more clearly than that.



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