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Posted: 3/5/2010 1:42:01 PM EDT
I didn't want to take the other thread farther off topic, as it was already straying into "spit up NY" and all. The talk of splitting up-state from down state, and blaming NYC for all upstate's problems is discussed here often. There is constant talk of how upstate's tax money is wasted by NYC.

I'm not addressing this here, but I would love to know how much of "upstate"s tax revenue comes from "down state"?

How many people do we have on this board alone who live on the island or in the "city" and own property upstate?
If I sat down and made a list of all the people I know or knew, who live down here but also own property and pay taxes up there, it would take all day.
I live on the island but my family's been paying taxes in Otsego county since 1952. When I think of all my neighbors and neighboring property upstate, one of them is from Oneonta. As for the others, one lives in Jersey, another in Mass. At lease four other adjoining or near by properties, the owners all live on the island.

Just an interesting thought, I'd love to know what the percentage is.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 1:43:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2010 1:44:20 PM EDT by Rich219]
A very very very small percentage. My vote still goes to pushing NYC/LI into the Atlantic.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 2:17:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich219:
A very very very small percentage. My vote still goes to pushing NYC/LI into the Atlantic.


This

/thread
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 2:40:03 PM EDT
A few things Cas. And this is all meant with all due respect.

1. Property taxes are paid to county, town and city governments and local school districts. The state has no direct role in property tax collection, although there is a direct relationship between local taxes, levels of state aid, and unfunded state mandates.

2. Does it matter where an upstate property owner lives? Not one bit. There are plenty of people who own property upstate who are from New Jersey. So I'm not sure what your point is there. If upstate was to split off from downstate, the people you know would be still own their property and pay the local property taxes - just like the New Jersery residents. One could make the argument that if secession were to occur, local property taxes could actually be lower because the nanny-state mentality would be diminished. One could also make the argument they could be higher, which brings me to ....

3. One of the myths of upstate-downstate secession is that upstate sends more money to the welfare cases downstate. Studies have shown that New York City actually contributes more to the state than it gets back, which essentially means the city is helping to pay to support upstate. But as I alluded to above, a secession could pave the way for a roll back of the nanny-state mentality, which is driven by New York City.

4. People will say that secession could never happen because it would involve state and federal Constitutional changes and public referendums. I say the establishment of the nation's largest metro areas, including New York City, into city-states is the only way to prevent the country from collapsing. What has happened is that gerrymandering and demographical shifts have disenfranchised millions of people in this country and not just in New York State. People are no longer getting the representation in their state houses to which they are entitled.



Link Posted: 3/5/2010 2:47:16 PM EDT
^ NO.

You've jumped back to the conversation we're not having.

I'm asking about tax revenues, not solely to the state (or where the state spends it). How much of the upstate tax revenue comes from down state was the question posed. I think "very very very little" is what's assumed but not correct.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 2:58:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cas:
^ NO.

You've jumped back to the conversation we're not having.

I'm asking about tax revenues, not solely to the state (or where the state spends it). How much of the upstate tax revenue comes from down state was the question posed. I think "very very very little" is what's assumed but not correct.


I thought I answered that by saying it is irrelevant. What is the difference between a New Jersey resident owning a second home in Otsego County or a Nassau County resident owning a second home in Otsego County? There is no difference.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 3:03:05 PM EDT
My Nassau Co. house is gonna cost me probably 9-10K a year. So I won't be getting another house anywhere else...
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 3:05:02 PM EDT
I will say this, if you are solely talking about downstaters coming to upstate and spending money, owning homes or otherwise contributing to the tax base, then the further you get away from the city, the less of an impact there is. Although there may be a good many downstaters who own second homes in the Catskills or Hudson Valley, elsewhere there are probably very few. Again, I say, why would it matter?
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 3:10:49 PM EDT
Lot of building supers seem to own property upstate. Mostly because they don't pay rent. Richer folks tend to own 2nd homes in CT, or East End. Know one starving artist with a weekend home in Hillsdale. And a bunch of guys with hunting camps in PA.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 3:48:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cas:
^ NO.

You've jumped back to the conversation we're not having.

I'm asking about tax revenues, not solely to the state (or where the state spends it). How much of the upstate tax revenue comes from down state was the question posed. I think "very very very little" is what's assumed but not correct.

Net revenue flows from NYC into upstate.

On the converse side, NYC's entire watershed (99% of it) is outside of NYC, and squarely in Westchester, Putnam, the Catskills etc. Many millions of dollars change hands annually for upstate areas to NOT develop on those watershed designated locations.

/ml
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 3:49:35 PM EDT
Oh yeah,

I have property in the NYC metro area, the mid-hudson, and "upstate".


/ml
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 4:13:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tahawus:
3. One of the myths of upstate-downstate secession is that upstate sends more money to the welfare cases downstate. Studies have shown that New York City actually contributes more to the state than it gets back, which essentially means the city is helping to pay to support upstate. But as I alluded to above, a secession could pave the way for a roll back of the nanny-state mentality, which is driven by New York City.

Originally Posted By Tahawus:
4. People will say that secession could never happen because it would involve state and federal Constitutional changes and public referendums. I say the establishment of the nation's largest metro areas, including New York City, into city-states is the only way to prevent the country from collapsing.
What you are describing was proposed in The Newstates Constitution back in the seventies (read it if you can hold your lunch down). It would have converted the current fifty states into ten Federal enclaves pretty much centered on population areas.

And yes, downstate does send more money to Albany than it gets back. Only a few years ago former Senator Clinton released a report the stated if Downstate New York was split off from Upstate New York, the upstate part would be financially on par with Mississippi. Personally, being from Long Island, I would not mind seeing NYC left as an entity unto itself (as it basically is already) but I still consider myself a New Yorker even though I really hate what this state has become.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 4:43:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2010 4:44:13 PM EDT by FGracing]
Originally Posted By cas:
I didn't want to take the other thread farther off topic, as it was already straying into "spit up NY" and all. The talk of splitting up-state from down state, and blaming NYC for all upstate's problems is discussed here often. There is constant talk of how upstate's tax money is wasted by NYC.

I'm not addressing this here, but I would love to know how much of "upstate"s tax revenue comes from "down state"?

How many people do we have on this board alone who live on the island or in the "city" and own property upstate?
If I sat down and made a list of all the people I know or knew, who live down here but also own property and pay taxes up there, it would take all day.
I live on the island but my family's been paying taxes in Otsego county since 1952. When I think of all my neighbors and neighboring property upstate, one of them is from Oneonta. As for the others, one lives in Jersey, another in Mass. At lease four other adjoining or near by properties, the owners all live on the island.

Just an interesting thought, I'd love to know what the percentage is.



I would think that most of the money that flows "upstate" is from NYS tax on your yearly tax returns. That is where we "downstaters" get the shaft. We pay more than we get back. BTW add me to the list of paying "upstate" also. Pay property taxes on 100 acres in Ohio NY in Herkimer County.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 5:19:43 PM EDT
Weekenders can fuck off. The cost to scrape you off the backroads and ski slopes far outweighs the benefit. Add to that the DEP's tyrannical governance and land grab tactics it is not worth trying to survive up here anymore. Have fun getting up into your properties when the roads are not plowed, oil tank is empty and no one is around to respond middle of night fire and rescue calls.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 5:49:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2010 5:52:03 PM EDT by Rich219]
Originally Posted By cas:
^ NO.

You've jumped back to the conversation we're not having.

I'm asking about tax revenues, not solely to the state (or where the state spends it). How much of the upstate tax revenue comes from down state was the question posed. I think "very very very little" is what's assumed but not correct.


I think it IS correct, there's what 19 million people in NY? Even if 1 million people from LI/NYC have property in Upstate NY this is still only 5% of "down staters" paying upstate taxes. Which is very very very little in the overall picture.

I think the better question would be what percentage of upstate resources goes to NYC/LI.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:14:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich219:
.

I think the better question would be what percentage of upstate resources goes to NYC/LI.


I would say that is a big fat ZERO. 11,000 dollars a year in property tax down here, yeah it goes mostly to here. As far as my NYS income tax? That goes upstate.

Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:19:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2010 6:22:38 PM EDT by Rich219]
Originally Posted By FGracing:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
.

I think the better question would be what percentage of upstate resources goes to NYC/LI.


I would say that is a big fat ZERO. 11,000 dollars a year in property tax down here, yeah it goes mostly to here. As far as my NYS income tax? That goes upstate.



You are missing what I typed. I said "resources", not taxes. Like water supply, natural gas, etc.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:25:35 PM EDT
Actually NYC supports the state. I thought that the rest of the state was covering their asses but that is not correct. Think about the money that is running around that area.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:34:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich219:
Originally Posted By FGracing:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
.

I think the better question would be what percentage of upstate resources goes to NYC/LI.


I would say that is a big fat ZERO. 11,000 dollars a year in property tax down here, yeah it goes mostly to here. As far as my NYS income tax? That goes upstate.



You are missing what I typed. I said "resources", not taxes. Like water supply, natural gas, etc.



Long Island water comes from underground sources here on Long Island. NYC water comes from upstate reservoirs made and paid for by NYC. that and the tunnels made and paid for by mostly NYC funds. As far as gas,,Domestic gas, primarily from the Gulf Coast area, accounts for approximately 62% of the gas consumed in New York with nearly all of the remainder from Canadian sources.5 Gas production within New York is growing and currently meets about 2% of the State=s annual gas use.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 10:08:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FGracing:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
Originally Posted By FGracing:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
.

I think the better question would be what percentage of upstate resources goes to NYC/LI.


I would say that is a big fat ZERO. 11,000 dollars a year in property tax down here, yeah it goes mostly to here. As far as my NYS income tax? That goes upstate.



You are missing what I typed. I said "resources", not taxes. Like water supply, natural gas, etc.



Long Island water comes from underground sources here on Long Island. NYC water comes from upstate reservoirs made and paid for by NYC. that and the tunnels made and paid for by mostly NYC funds.Stolen from upstate As far as gas,,Domestic gas, primarily from the Gulf Coast area, accounts for approximately 62% of the gas consumed in New York with nearly all of the remainder from Canadian sources.5 Gas production within New York is growing and currently meets about 2% of the State=s annual gas use.


Once a landowner can run a skidder and truck across a 2 foot deep creek bed without having to spend 300k to buld a compliant bridge to get his logs of his land maybe the NYC DEP won't be considered a fucking plague on the upstate.

The guy fucking heli logged it.
You could see it from the county route but he couldn't muddy up the water supply that flowed through his property. It was more effective to run a helicopter 12 hours a day moving logs then it was trying to appease our water overlords.

FUCK the DEP.

All the NYC crowd does is pollute our landscape roads and bars.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 10:42:08 PM EDT
NYC/LI supports upstate & gets the shaft.

Property taxes are used to make up the shortfall, for example;
- County-funded Nassau PD/Suffolk DS patrol the state-owned LIE - because the state troopers we're already funding via income tax/sales tax are kept upstate patrolling the rural areas.

Also, every ticket a local cop writes has a $50 surcharge paid to the state. (Forget the argument that they should not be allowed to add a surcharge onto an existing fine to line their pockets.) We paid the cop out of local property taxes, we paid for the local court & judge - why should we give the state a kickback for something they had nothing to do with? That money should be kept locally to offset property taxes.

If NYC/LI would split it would bankrupt upstate NY - which is why they would never let us walk away - they need to make sure that we continue to fund their rural areas because "we're the rich people".

Link Posted: 3/6/2010 5:45:53 AM EDT

As an upstate NY local govt. employee who deals in local and state finances , and as an erstwhile student of govt. policy I have to agree that
the NYC/ metro/LI. area residents do contribute more tax dollars per capita to govt. spending there than the local residents.

But then so does ANY large U.S. Metro area near a low income rural base.

The OTHER side of the coin is that these Metro areas thereby exert POLITICAL POWER in proportion to their Tax payments.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 6:52:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2010 6:54:02 AM EDT by Aardvark]

Originally Posted By AKsRule:

The OTHER side of the coin is that these Metro areas thereby exert POLITICAL POWER in proportion to their Tax payments.

That is only because the downstate population count here is not proportional to the rest of the state. If we only had a million people down here producing the bulk of the state tax revenue, then upstate would certainly be able to dictate how it is spent because they would have far more representatives as compared to downstate. As it is, NYC has a large portion of the state's population AND their respresentatives, unfortunately, vote as one entity.

Link Posted: 3/6/2010 7:35:42 AM EDT
I seem to remember a recent thread featuring Appalchia pics that sparked some outrage on this topic.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 8:28:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich219:
A very very very small percentage. My vote still goes to pushing NYC/LI into the Atlantic.

Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
A very very very small percentage. My vote still goes to pushing NYC/LI into the Atlantic.
This
/thread

Posts like these make me so fucking angry. I am Long Island born & raised and when some [self-censored] from upstate New York starts spouting that garbage, how do you expect those of us that live here not to get bent? Your type is just as bad as the hunters of the gun crowd who say bolt actions are what our 2A rights protect but feel free to take away all those 'evil baby-killing black semi-auto assault rifles' and pound 'em into pancakes. Are you entitled to your opinion? Of course, but that doesn't mean you should come in here and put those of us that don't agree with your point of view in a position of having to defend ourselves.

"If we do not hang together, we will surely all hang separately." <––- This quote leads me to create a new thread in Team.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:58:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aardvark:

Originally Posted By Tahawus:
3. One of the myths of upstate-downstate secession is that upstate sends more money to the welfare cases downstate. Studies have shown that New York City actually contributes more to the state than it gets back, which essentially means the city is helping to pay to support upstate. But as I alluded to above, a secession could pave the way for a roll back of the nanny-state mentality, which is driven by New York City.

Originally Posted By Tahawus:
4. People will say that secession could never happen because it would involve state and federal Constitutional changes and public referendums. I say the establishment of the nation's largest metro areas, including New York City, into city-states is the only way to prevent the country from collapsing.
What you are describing was proposed in The Newstates Constitution back in the seventies (read it if you can hold your lunch down). It would have converted the current fifty states into ten Federal enclaves pretty much centered on population areas.

And yes, downstate does send more money to Albany than it gets back. Only a few years ago former Senator Clinton released a report the stated if Downstate New York was split off from Upstate New York, the upstate part would be financially on par with Mississippi. Personally, being from Long Island, I would not mind seeing NYC left as an entity unto itself (as it basically is already) but I still consider myself a New Yorker even though I really hate what this state has become.


That is fine. I see a number of pet projects around here that undoubtedly could not be funded with out tax revenue from NYC, but I also do not see the need for these projects.

There is a regional transport system in the area that runs small buses between the larger towns and the cities. Every day I see those buses roll past my property. Very rarely do I see people on board and even then, it is one or two. The fare is only $1 for each segment. There is no doubt that collecting a couple bucks from each passenger does not cover the operating costs. Instead, we all pay for a program that wastes tax dollars. If upstate lost the tax revenue from NYC, there would be no way to fund dumb programs like this.

I would not mind forcing the upstate governments to get back to the basics.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 3:11:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich219:
Even if 1 million people from LI/NYC have property in Upstate NY this is still only 5% of "down staters" paying upstate taxes. Which is very very very little in the overall picture..


Paying 5% of the taxes revenue is very little? I think it's pretty considerable, especially considering it's somewhere they don't even live.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 4:00:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cas:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
Even if 1 million people from LI/NYC have property in Upstate NY this is still only 5% of "down staters" paying upstate taxes. Which is very very very little in the overall picture..


Paying 5% of the taxes revenue is very little? I think it's pretty considerable, especially considering it's somewhere they don't even live.


So I can own property in an area and not pay the property taxex because I don't live there and live in NYC or the island? That doens't make any sense. You're paying for the public services that service the property like fire, police, code enforcement, health dept, dog catcher, tax collector, etc.

I may not like our tax system but that's the way it is. you own the property then you pay your share based on it's value.

Link Posted: 3/7/2010 8:51:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 8:55:06 AM EDT by cas]
Originally Posted By SteelonSteel:
You're paying for the public services that service the property like fire, police, code enforcement, health dept, dog catcher, tax collector, etc.


That's the only one I'm getting.

They do grade the road every year or two, which I wish they wouldn't. All that does is makes the road more usable, which brings more traffic. I liked it better when it was gawd-aful.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 1:59:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cas:
Originally Posted By SteelonSteel:
You're paying for the public services that service the property like fire, police, code enforcement, health dept, dog catcher, tax collector, etc.


That's the only one I'm getting.

They do grade the road every year or two, which I wish they wouldn't. All that does is makes the road more usable, which brings more traffic. I liked it better when it was gawd-aful.


Next time you are up here Cas we should go shooting. I'm in Oneonta.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 2:32:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 2:44:17 PM EDT by P400]
Originally Posted By StoutOfHeart:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
A very very very small percentage. My vote still goes to pushing NYC/LI into the Atlantic.

Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
A very very very small percentage. My vote still goes to pushing NYC/LI into the Atlantic.
This
/thread

Posts like these make me so fucking angry. I am Long Island born & raised and when some [self-censored] from upstate New York starts spouting that garbage, how do you expect those of us that live here not to get bent? Your type is just as bad as the hunters of the gun crowd who say bolt actions are what our 2A rights protect but feel free to take away all those 'evil baby-killing black semi-auto assault rifles' and pound 'em into pancakes. Are you entitled to your opinion? Of course, but that doesn't mean you should come in here and put those of us that don't agree with your point of view in a position of having to defend ourselves.

"If we do not hang together, we will surely all hang separately." <––- This quote leads me to create a new thread in Team.



So calling him a fudd isn't spouting garbage?

I am also Long Island born & raised. Now I reside upstate. I understand both sides of it. I can see how the difference between LI and NYC can be confusing to those who live upstate. You getting angry is not going to change anyones mind.

Personally I think the logistics of seperating upstate and Nassau and Suffolk from the five boroughs of NYC would be kind of difficult, if not impossible.

It actually seemed to me like LI was slowly going the other way. One of the reasons I left.

Oh, and here's a ton of NY property tax info for anyone who cares to wade thru it http://www.orps.state.ny.us/

Link Posted: 3/7/2010 2:46:28 PM EDT
I seriously doubt Westchester would part ways with NYC. One for the most part a lot of people in Westchester are from the city and love the city, just don't want to live in all the craziness. And as soon as they find out they have nothing in common with northerns, I seriously doubt, they'd want to leave NYC.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 5:25:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2010 5:27:34 AM EDT by sbninja]
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 6:04:13 AM EDT
For the record, I hate NYC probably more than anyone here. Anything west of my driveway is too close to the city for me.
Even though Long Island is paradise lost and parts of my family roots here date back to the 1600's, Ive grown to hate it.
Like the old Dennis Miller line "Its a few rotten million that spoil it for the other eleven."

In the other short lived thread someone claimed Nassau and Suffolk were paying for the rest of the state. I don't know about that, but if you look at the income/population/tax numbers, they're contributing (state wise) a good deal more than some may realize.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:01:02 PM EDT
And yes, downstate does send more money to Albany than it gets back. Only a few years ago former Senator Clinton released a report the stated if Downstate New York was split off from Upstate New York, the upstate part would be financially on par with Mississippi. Personally, being from Long Island, I would not mind seeing NYC left as an entity unto itself (as it basically is already) but I still consider myself a New Yorker even though I really hate what this state has become.


This, notably the red part, and is Mississippi really all that bad? I bet I could get used to the poverty. I'd just plant a garden. I'd probably trade this state for that one in a heartbeat if it weren't for the heat and hurricanes. And since when should I believe a fucking thing Hillary Clinton says anyway? Pssh, as if.

I'm going to the shooting range. Its 60 degrees outside.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 9:09:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Maat:
And yes, downstate does send more money to Albany than it gets back. Only a few years ago former Senator Clinton released a report the stated if Downstate New York was split off from Upstate New York, the upstate part would be financially on par with Mississippi. Personally, being from Long Island, I would not mind seeing NYC left as an entity unto itself (as it basically is already) but I still consider myself a New Yorker even though I really hate what this state has become.


This, notably the red part, and is Mississippi really all that bad? I bet I could get used to the poverty. I'd just plant a garden. I'd probably trade this state for that one in a heartbeat if it weren't for the heat and hurricanes. And since when should I believe a fucking thing Hillary Clinton says anyway? Pssh, as if.

I'm going to the shooting range. Its 60 degrees outside.

They compare it to poverty but really what would be missing out on? Social Welfare Programs and all the other "Benefits" being forced on us by the liberal cesspools? Maybe if we actually had to live on a budget we would get back on track. Or hey we could start charging NYC for the water they take...
There is a fine money making prospect.


Link Posted: 3/8/2010 9:20:48 PM EDT
That's a part often, conveniently, left out of this discussion. There are liberal cesspools throughout the state, north, south, east and west. You could cut this state up a dozen ways, we'd still be screwed.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 9:36:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By P400:
Originally Posted By StoutOfHeart:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
A very very very small percentage. My vote still goes to pushing NYC/LI into the Atlantic.

Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
Originally Posted By Rich219:
A very very very small percentage. My vote still goes to pushing NYC/LI into the Atlantic.
This
/thread

Posts like these make me so fucking angry. I am Long Island born & raised and when some [self-censored] from upstate New York starts spouting that garbage, how do you expect those of us that live here not to get bent? Your type is just as bad as the hunters of the gun crowd who say bolt actions are what our 2A rights protect but feel free to take away all those 'evil baby-killing black semi-auto assault rifles' and pound 'em into pancakes. Are you entitled to your opinion? Of course, but that doesn't mean you should come in here and put those of us that don't agree with your point of view in a position of having to defend ourselves.

"If we do not hang together, we will surely all hang separately." <––- This quote leads me to create a new thread in Team.



So calling him a fudd isn't spouting garbage?

I am also Long Island born & raised. Now I reside upstate. I understand both sides of it. I can see how the difference between LI and NYC can be confusing to those who live upstate. You getting angry is not going to change anyones mind.

Personally I think the logistics of seperating upstate and Nassau and Suffolk from the five boroughs of NYC would be kind of difficult, if not impossible.

It actually seemed to me like LI was slowly going the other way. One of the reasons I left.

Oh, and here's a ton of NY property tax info for anyone who cares to wade thru it http://www.orps.state.ny.us/

I imagine it would be just as bad which is exactly why I did no such thing in my post. I merely drew a comparison between those that posted they would like to divide the State; wishing everyone on Long Island & NYC to die based on their desire to see it pushed 'into the Atlantic'.

AND

those that only care about the type of shooting they do and ignore the fact that the Second Amendment is only as strong as it's weakest supporter, those that claim they support that Right only to help disarm those who have chosen a different means to the same end and will later find the tables turned on them by their new 'friends' once a foothold is established with the assistance given them by our ambivalent fellow gun owners.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 4:51:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cas:
That's a part often, conveniently, left out of this discussion. There are liberal cesspools throughout the state, north, south, east and west. You could cut this state up a dozen ways, we'd still be screwed.

Exactly. You guys make it sound like "upstate" NY is eastern Texas or something.


Link Posted: 3/9/2010 6:25:07 AM EDT
To drift off topic briefly, yet stay near;

In all the years I worked at the range, I never heard anyone talk bad about the "black rifle" guys. (not counting when they asked to move away from them because of being pelted with brass and abused by muzzle break blast.)
Yet I heard plenty of grumbling about "the fudds".
But some people have convinced themselves the bias is one way and in the other direction.
I suppose it's kind of like how the most racist people you will ever meet are the ones constantly screaming racism.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 8:56:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shocktrp:
NYC/LI supports upstate & gets the shaft.

Property taxes are used to make up the shortfall, for example;
- County-funded Nassau PD/Suffolk DS patrol the state-owned LIE - because the state troopers we're already funding via income tax/sales tax are kept upstate patrolling the rural areas.

Also, every ticket a local cop writes has a $50 surcharge paid to the state. (Forget the argument that they should not be allowed to add a surcharge onto an existing fine to line their pockets.) We paid the cop out of local property taxes, we paid for the local court & judge - why should we give the state a kickback for something they had nothing to do with? That money should be kept locally to offset property taxes.

If NYC/LI would split it would bankrupt upstate NY - which is why they would never let us walk away - they need to make sure that we continue to fund their rural areas because "we're the rich people".



If Upstate NY wasn't shackled by downstate we could actually have a decent economy up here. This state is incredibly unfriendly to business and that's not Upstate's doing.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 8:58:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By cas:
That's a part often, conveniently, left out of this discussion. There are liberal cesspools throughout the state, north, south, east and west. You could cut this state up a dozen ways, we'd still be screwed.

Exactly. You guys make it sound like "upstate" NY is eastern Texas or something.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=5592


I think upstate would be a blue state like PA or NH if we separated.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:16:42 AM EDT
By "downstate" do you mean Albany?
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:30:03 AM EDT
Maybe Texas can annex all of NYS north of 287 in WC. Sorry to you guys in LI but remember the Alamo and Double Shot Liquor & Guns!



Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:50:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cas:
By "downstate" do you mean Albany?


No, I mean the region that actually controls this state. Albany may be in upstate but the show is run by downstate.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:53:01 AM EDT
Hmm.. they must have changed how the state government works when I wasn't looking.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:59:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cas:
Hmm.. they must have changed how the state government works when I wasn't looking.


They must have really changed it - because if we were running the show we'd be getting our fair share of taxes back for local projects.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:05:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By cas:
That's a part often, conveniently, left out of this discussion. There are liberal cesspools throughout the state, north, south, east and west. You could cut this state up a dozen ways, we'd still be screwed.

Exactly. You guys make it sound like "upstate" NY is eastern Texas or something.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=5592


Ha! look at Otsego County...
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:10:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cas:
Hmm.. they must have changed how the state government works when I wasn't looking.




Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:11:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shocktrp:
Originally Posted By cas:
Hmm.. they must have changed how the state government works when I wasn't looking.


They must have really changed it - because if we were running the show we'd be getting our fair share of taxes back for local projects.


Well, if we were running the show we wouldn't have implemented policies that bled upstate dry. There's a reason why there's almost no industry left up here.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:27:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BushBoar:
Originally Posted By shocktrp:
Originally Posted By cas:
Hmm.. they must have changed how the state government works when I wasn't looking.


They must have really changed it - because if we were running the show we'd be getting our fair share of taxes back for local projects.


Well, if we were running the show we wouldn't have implemented policies that bled upstate dry. There's a reason why there's almost no industry left up here.


Hey now! We have Carrier, and Savage, and Utica Cutlery and Oneida, and Duxack, and Mohawk Carpet and Endicott Johnson, and Remington... oh wait you are right! well Remington isn't gone yet but...
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