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Posted: 11/16/2008 4:52:00 PM EDT
http://www.senate.ga.gov/pressreleases.htm

Scroll down about 1/3 of the way till you see this...
Comprehensive Firearms Law Study Committee Considers Licensing

ATLANTA (October 15, 2008) – State Sen. Mitch Seabaugh (R-Sharpsburg), majority whip and chairman of the Senate Comprehensive Firearms Law Study Committee, today convened the third meeting of the study committee at the Capitol to hear the public’s opinion on licensing.

Audio Part One


Audio Part Two




Listen to audio part II. It's at the very start and will only take 3 minutes of your life to learn what the NRA wants.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:11:38 PM EDT
After that meeting, I spoke with a high member of the NRA Training Department, and he said that is not the stance of the NRA. He said those statements were personal opinions and not what the NRA wants. The NRA does want a Nation Carry License, but does not want to mandate training in States. While this could just be the guy I spoke with's opinion, he sounded angry that an NRA Instructor was saying these things.

When going through the question answer part, Scott even says this is his opinion not the opinion of the NRA.

I am very irritated about those comments and will no longer recommend Scott as an instructor.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:14:26 PM EDT
I just don't think the speaker would go off and take stances like that without some inclination of what the board is doing, or wanting. It sounded logical to me.


I'm extrodinarily pissed all my comments before were cut out.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:17:07 PM EDT
I heard the guy say it was his opinion and was not speaking for the NRA.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:18:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
I heard the guy say it was his opinion and was not speaking for the NRA.


See what you miss when you're not there.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:18:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:
I just don't think the speaker would go off and take stances like that without some inclination of what the board is doing, or wanting. It sounded logical to me.


I'm extrodinarily pissed all my comments before were cut out.



I would be pissed too.

While listening to the questions that the committee asked Scott, it seemed like they knew he had something to gain from mandating training.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:21:07 PM EDT
Gents I was there at that meeting.


Scott vandiver said it was the NRA's position. He said it more than once too.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:24:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By perry73779:
Originally Posted By DKing:
I just don't think the speaker would go off and take stances like that without some inclination of what the board is doing, or wanting. It sounded logical to me.


I'm extrodinarily pissed all my comments before were cut out.



I would be pissed too.

While listening to the questions that the committee asked Scott, it seemed like they knew he had something to gain from mandating training.


I believe someone earlier said, "The only thing to gain from mandated training is lining the pockets of the certified instructors. I urge you to question anyone who would mandate training how much they stand to gain from it." but I'm paraphrasing because they cut out my comments!

Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:28:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Gents I was there at that meeting.


Scott vandiver said it was the NRA's position. He said it more than once too.


I was there too. He said he would not state for the NRA. Here is the quote from the Study Committee.

   Sen. Smith:  Does the NRA want people to undergo training?

     Mr. Vandiver:  will not speak for NRA, but in his opinion the NRA would prefer nationwide reciprocal carry.  The only training that is nationally recognized is the NRA training.  
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:33:15 PM EDT
those may have been his exact words yes. But his meaning was extremely clear. He was there at the NRA's behest and he was for mandatory training.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:44:14 PM EDT
There is a big post on GPDO about this.  I don't agree with Scott's (~NRAs) opinion on training.  I'm gonna keep my mouth shut because I nothing else nice to say about this.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:54:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
those may have been his exact words yes. But his meaning was extremely clear. He was there at the NRA's behest and he was for mandatory training.


I am certain that the committee notes were not his exact words at the beginning, because the notes do not accurately reflect my position either.
Link Posted: 11/16/2008 5:57:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
those may have been his exact words yes. But his meaning was extremely clear. He was there at the NRA's behest and he was for mandatory training.


I am certain that the committee notes were not his exact words at the beginning, because the notes do not accurately reflect my position either.



Well....its kinda obvious that his personal agenda is swaying him towards wanting the training. Totally the wrong reason IMO.

Link Posted: 11/16/2008 6:39:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:
I just don't think the speaker would go off and take stances like that without some inclination of what the board is doing, or wanting. It sounded logical to me.


Yeah that guy gave a talk at the GCO lunch this spring (Doug, I think you were sitting next to him).  I talked to him at his table... I took his card and wrote "asshole" on the back of it just to remind me not to recommend him to anyone.

He is an instructor here:  http://www.inquesttrainingacademy.com/

Link Posted: 11/16/2008 6:55:08 PM EDT
My wife and I took the NRA courses in the 90's in PA when we started carring full time. It was a great course, well worth the time and money. That's IMHO.

Mike
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 7:52:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2008 8:08:16 AM EDT by perry73779]
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
those may have been his exact words yes. But his meaning was extremely clear. He was there at the NRA's behest and he was for mandatory training.


Here is his quote from GPDO. He says that the NRA wants a standard for a nationwide permit, and he says "I think" there is no way to get this without training. If you listen to the soundbite again, he says it is his personal opinion. The NRA just wants a Nationwide Permit. All the people that are higher up than Scott that I have talked to, say this is untrue.


I have been asked to testify before the FSC.
I am researching other states requirements now.
The NRA wants a nationwide standard in order to get a nationwide permit.
I think there is no way we will get the other things we want without adding a training requirement. My presentation will be about what training is available both for instuctors and students, time requirements. qualification issues. Qualification with a specific firearm and that is the only gun you can carry. (we don't want this)
I think the qualification my run along the same lines as the Private Investigators qualification, shooting at different distances out to 20yds, 50rounds 80% required to pass. and I expect there to be a classroom requirement for use of force and other legal issues.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 11:46:42 AM EDT
Well this is my take on it.

The man went to a senate hearing and put forth that there should be a training requirement for our firearms license.

I don't know if he did it for personal gain or for the NRA. BUT He did do it and he didn't do Georgians a service when he did it.

For those reasons he's on my personal "I don't give a shit if he's alive or dead list". This means I will not talk to him, do business with him, be trained by him, or be associated with him in any form or fashion.

If you want to be so be it. Thats your business.


Me I agree with the guy that wrote on the back of his business card.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 12:44:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Well this is my take on it.

The man went to a senate hearing and put forth that there should be a training requirement for our firearms license.

I don't know if he did it for personal gain or for the NRA. BUT He did do it and he didn't do Georgians a service when he did it.

For those reasons he's on my personal "I don't give a shit if he's alive or dead list". This means I will not talk to him, do business with him, be trained by him, or be associated with him in any form or fashion.

If you want to be so be it. Thats your business.

Me I agree with the guy that wrote on the back of his business card.



I agree 100000% with your statement. I just want make sure people dont think the NRA is fighting against us in this. I am very pissed that he said those things and he is on my list too.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 1:52:32 PM EDT
After the way that the NRA buried HB915, I don't care if they DON'T favor a training requirement.  I will not ask the NRA to speak for me in the State of Georgia.  I wish there were another EFFECTIVE voice at the national level, too.  I, too, believe that Mr. NRA Instructor and the NRA probably agree on training requirements as they pertain to carry permits.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:52:48 PM EDT
He's and isntructor who thinks shooters should require training.

My barber also thinks I need a haircut everytime I see him.

It's business.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:12:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SSN_Doc:
He's and isntructor who thinks shooters should require training.

My barber also thinks I need a haircut everytime I see him.

It's business.


I'm an instructor. So is 00bullitt. Somethings are more important then business.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:24:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:
Originally Posted By SSN_Doc:
He's and isntructor who thinks shooters should require training.

My barber also thinks I need a haircut everytime I see him.

It's business.


I'm an instructor. So is 00bullitt. Somethings are more important then business.


Obviously yal have common cents.

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:40:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:
Originally Posted By SSN_Doc:
He's and isntructor who thinks shooters should require training.

My barber also thinks I need a haircut everytime I see him.

It's business.


I'm an instructor. So is 00bullitt. Somethings are more important then business.


I am also an instructor and i am not for mandating training.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 1:29:34 PM EDT
I recognize that many instructors have a morale compass that points true.  

Some folks got into instructing to instruct people for the betterment of the shooting community.  Others got into it to make a buck.  

I'm guessing the featured instructor may be more motivated by a bottom line than true conviction.  I didn't mean to imply that all instructors would be for mandating instruction to all firearms owners.  I hope it didn't come off that way, the comment was aimed at the individual speaking, just like he doesn't represent the entire body of the NRA.  (Thank God)

I feel there is a need for more instructors to be able to teach those who wish to improve there skills or get the fundamentals.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 1:40:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SSN_Doc:
I recognize that many instructors have a morale compass that points true.  

Some folks got into instructing to instruct people for the betterment of the shooting community.  Others got into it to make a buck.  

I'm guessing the featured instructor may be more motivated by a bottom line than true conviction.  I didn't mean to imply that all instructors would be for mandating instruction to all firearms owners.  I hope it didn't come off that way, the comment was aimed at the individual speaking, just like he doesn't represent the entire body of the NRA.  (Thank God)

I feel there is a need for more instructors to be able to teach those who wish to improve there skills or get the fundamentals.



And this is why I would never charge to teach students martial arts.

If you want to learn, fine, come hang out & we'll go over some things.

But let's keep money out of this as I'm not training for money.

I'm training to LIVE.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 2:30:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By skebe:
Originally Posted By SSN_Doc:
I recognize that many instructors have a morale compass that points true.  

Some folks got into instructing to instruct people for the betterment of the shooting community.  Others got into it to make a buck.  

I'm guessing the featured instructor may be more motivated by a bottom line than true conviction.  I didn't mean to imply that all instructors would be for mandating instruction to all firearms owners.  I hope it didn't come off that way, the comment was aimed at the individual speaking, just like he doesn't represent the entire body of the NRA.  (Thank God)

I feel there is a need for more instructors to be able to teach those who wish to improve there skills or get the fundamentals.



And this is why I would never charge to teach students martial arts.

If you want to learn, fine, come hang out & we'll go over some things.

But let's keep money out of this as I'm not training for money.

I'm training to LIVE.


Kind of my philosophy.  I traded shooting lessons for martial arts lessons.

Link Posted: 11/18/2008 4:15:02 PM EDT
Thankfully already 2 NRA instructors have stepped up and said they will make this right.


Both of them have pledged not to charge for any state required training classes that come out of Vandivers treachery.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 4:26:34 PM EDT
That's kinda cool to have two NRA instructors on HTF. What's is the requirements/trainings and experiences to be one?. I would love to do this as well, hanging the NRA's instructor badge on my neck...
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 4:55:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1moreAR:
That's kinda cool to have two NRA instructors on HTF. What's is the requirements/trainings and experiences to be one?. I would love to do this as well, hanging the NRA's instructor badge on my neck...


Find a NRA Training Counselor. Have a good background in the type of firearm you want to teach. Take the couse which has two parts. A basic training course, then a part for the particular firearm you want to teach. There is basic pistol, basic shotgun, basic rifle and a bunch of others. My training counselor was Phillip Williams. He is in Augusta. He puts on a great course. PM me if you want his email address and info.

Here is the NRA link to that stuff.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/instructor.asp
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 6:16:52 PM EDT
Thanks Perry for the info and your time to help out. I don't have any of the above...,but I'm just a guy who like to learn. It will be a long time before I can qualified for the NRA instructor course. Right now I'm just learning and get teaches on shooting...
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:31:49 AM EDT
To get back on topic, if there was a National CCW permit that required training I would be fine with that. ( Only for the fact of being able to carry in Jersey when I have to visit for work.)

For a Georgia CCW I still think there should be no training.

So for the peeps that want nationwide, go get certified. If you only want to carry here in GA, you're in the clear.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:34:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By skebe:
To get back on topic, if there was a National CCW permit that required training I would be fine with that. ( Only for the fact of being able to carry in Jersey when I have to visit for work.)

For a Georgia CCW I still think there should be no training.

So for the peeps that want nationwide, go get certified. If you only want to carry here in GA, you're in the clear.


It'll never happen. That's the problem, we sacrifice to gain things that will never be.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:51:07 AM EDT
How about this ......... how about no training for the national standard.  

There is no-one in the country that can prove MANDATED training has any benefical impact.  NO ONE!!!!    Heck, even the Brady Campaign dislikes training because .... get this ... training provides the NRA with membership candidates.  Honest, it was in one of their reports.

There is no training required to be a journalist exercising their first amendment rights, there is no training requirement to exercise your 4th and 5th Amendment rights.  Why should "shall not be infringed" mean training is required or even a license is required.   If a gun carrier f's up, then throw him in jail for murder, assualt, etc.   Don't TAX the right of self defense with training.

I spit in the face of anybody who says training should be required for a license .... I wouldn't really spit that was just hyperbole.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:55:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:
Originally Posted By skebe:
To get back on topic, if there was a National CCW permit that required training I would be fine with that. ( Only for the fact of being able to carry in Jersey when I have to visit for work.)

For a Georgia CCW I still think there should be no training.

So for the peeps that want nationwide, go get certified. If you only want to carry here in GA, you're in the clear.


It'll never happen. That's the problem, we sacrifice to gain things that will never be.


You know this whole thing is really about rights & fighting for them. The thing this reminds me of is when people want to save animals, they only want to save the cute ones. Sort of like our problem, eh? Oh they like the 1st & some of the other items from the BOR, but the 2nd? NooooOOOOooo. Too scary. I mean how many people want to save the komodo dragon that will bite yer head off?




Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:54:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mikefromphilly:
How about this ......... how about no training for the national standard.  

There is no-one in the country that can prove MANDATED training has any beneficial impact.  NO ONE!!!!    Heck, even the Brady Campaign dislikes training because .... get this ... training provides the NRA with membership candidates.  Honest, it was in one of their reports.

There is no training required to be a journalist exercising their first amendment rights, there is no training requirement to exercise your 4th and 5th Amendment rights.  Why should "shall not be infringed" mean training is required or even a license is required.   If a gun carrier f's up, then throw him in jail for murder, assault, etc.   Don't TAX the right of self defense with training.

I spit in the face of anybody who says training should be required for a license .... I wouldn't really spit that was just hyperbole.


Mike I believe you would be mad enough to spit in we had to pay for mandated training to exercise our rights!
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