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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/27/2005 7:27:16 PM EDT
I took Momma & the little one school shopping the other day. just after doing the banking from her work & yes I have my HK on my side. well it seems that some people are a little afraid to have honest citizen open carry & was asked to leave the mall! They went as far as to have Chandler's fineist handy when telling me I had no right to open carry there. I asked where the posted sign was located (not on the main entrence or any entrence) I could find & when I asked for a copy of their policies I ws informed that that wasn't for public viewing & they don't hand it out.

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:34:57 PM EDT
Yep. I don't go to any malls...they are breeding places for soccer mom consumeristic numb-brain mentalities. Fuck 'em.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:37:31 PM EDT
Fuck 'em.That the reason I have CCW and carry in my fanny pack all the time and nobody notice.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:10:56 PM EDT
Hey if your ever bored and want to flirt with death, try going to Desert Sky Mall on a Friday or Saturday a few hours before closing. Used to go there just to see the fights

God I can’t wait to get my CCW in Sept

Oh btw went to Dennys in Prescott or Prescott Valley cant remember with a friend and we were both carrying because the last few Dennys we went to didn’t have liquor so we thought it was okay, and as we walked in we looked for sign but didn’t see one. An employee came over and said that although he feels better with us having them on, they do have a liquor license and he asked us to take them to the car. He even said that before working there he open carried and was also told to take it outside. We told him to tell the managers to post a sign, but I doubt they ever will.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 10:52:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Crzy_One:
Hey if your ever bored and want to flirt with death, try going to Desert Sky Mall on a Friday or Saturday a few hours before closing. Used to go there just to see the fights h




Yavapai Prescott: No carry; reservation includes shopping centers along SR 69, between Prescott Valley and Prescott
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 12:42:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 7:12:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Businesses need to be required to post signs...and have the signs printed a reasonable size.



Been down that road already, it will not happen in this legislature. Too many people believe that such a thing would infringe on people's private property rights. If you doubt it, start a thread asking if people have a right to carry their firearm on private property, or even just in a private business enterprise that is otherwise open to the public at large. If you think the majority will answer yes, I have this bridge ...

Apparently, ones right to set up camp and put up a fence outweighs ones right to life, and the concommitant right to defend said life, at least in the minds of most of our peers. Don't ask me why, I can't fathom it myself ...
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 10:46:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2005 10:47:50 AM EDT by SinistralRifleman]
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 10:51:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
People may feel differently some day when corporations buy up large tracts of land, and by default become governments in their own right. If all the property management companies in Arizona created NO FIREARMS policies on their property, our right to self defense would become null and void.

There should be a distinction between business open to the public, private clubs, and real private i.e. homes or businesses not open to the public.

If it ever comes to that, then I say fuck 'em. My personal safety is more important to me than their dumbshit policy.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 11:33:08 AM EDT

Yavapai Prescott: No carry; reservation includes shopping centers along SR 69, between Prescott Valley and Prescott


interesting thanks for letting me know, I will keep that in mind when im in that area.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 12:02:35 PM EDT
Park Place in Tucson is a mall that allows CCW, for what its worth. I really don't know how they approach a patron unless he is printing a mossberg under a tank top. But, they have publically stated that allow CCW in their mall.
Whats interesting in Tucson is that you can conceal carry in the city parks, but its illegal to open carry in the parks. Go figure?

As for laws, it was a state law that government buildings (courts, libraries, etc.) are to have gun lockers for public use so that you can store your weapon when entering their gun-free government zones. Any of you seen these lockers? I asked a po-po in the court house if the lockers there were for the public, he said no, they were for the po-po. Then he asked me why I would need a gun anyway. I asked him why he needed one, and he just stood there with a stupid expression, kinda like a dim 15 watt bulb just went on in his head. I was in the court house for jury duty at the time.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 1:24:40 PM EDT
the Tucson mall also allows CCW, at least they have no sighs that state otherwise. now, the Foothills mall does have a No Weapons sign but its so small that i can't see it.

funny thing with these 2 malls is that both reversed their policies to the current status. tucon mall used to be posted with a NO NO sign and foothills never had a sign up until last year, but i cant' read it anyway.

as much as i hate to say it but open carry is politically incorrect now days. seems like us non-PC gun owners need to change with the times and just use the CCW method. i don't really like being a specticle anyway. i prefer CCW because it gives you the gun toting CCW guy an advantage over the dumb ass criminal. although if they see you open carry they maynot fuck with you anyway.

no easy answer.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 2:19:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 4:54:11 PM EDT
I really like Sportsman's Warehouse's sign. . . something along the line of "If you plan on removing your weapon, it must me declared..."
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 5:36:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2005 5:36:44 PM EDT by doubletap04]
I believe that S R is right on target, Business should be required to have a posted sign informing the public of their policies ( how else would the public know unless posted ) & again when did we start to believe that a company or corperation has the right to deny a privite citizen their contitutional rights based on their corp policy.


Link Posted: 7/29/2005 6:43:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2005 6:45:57 AM EDT by hdwizard]

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
I'm ok with businesses posting signs that say "CCW only" or Weapons Prohibited unless compliant with with ARS section XXX (whatever the CCW law is under). Some business have signs along these lines.

It is only fair and polite to inform customers of the policy before they enter and have them thrown out by the police.



I would have very little problem with such a policy if the law were changed to allow CCW without permit or penalty to any law abiding citizen, as the Founders intended. Given such a situation, such policies would be akin to dress codes. Businesses would be asking you to dress accordingly ... they would not be asking you not to dress at all. However, with the law the way it is now, CCW is only for those who can afford it, and that is an intolerable situation.

I would not support laws that only allowed the right of free speech to those who could afford to take speech classes and get a government license to speak (thus turning said right into a privilege). I don't see any reason to support laws that only allow a small segment of society who can afford the time and money for the classes, fees, paperwork, etc. needed to get government approval to exercise their RKBA. So I will continue to push to get that law changed, until either the law is changed, or I drop dead from the effort.


Originally Posted By AZ_Hoplite:
As for laws, it was a state law that government buildings (courts, libraries, etc.) are to have gun lockers for public use so that you can store your weapon when entering their gun-free government zones. Any of you seen these lockers? I asked a po-po in the court house if the lockers there were for the public, he said no, they were for the po-po. Then he asked me why I would need a gun anyway. I asked him why he needed one, and he just stood there with a stupid expression, kinda like a dim 15 watt bulb just went on in his head. I was in the court house for jury duty at the time.



No offense, but wrong approach. Last time I went for jury duty (Maricopa superior court), I approached the security gate and told them that I needed to check a firearm. They went into the spiel about citizens not needing to carry guns, only cops should have them, why don't you just leave it in the car, yadda yadda yadda. Answers are: If all of my fellow citizens are so trustworthy, then why am I here for jury duty? Why would I want to leave my firearm in my car here in the auto theft capitol of the US? Perhaps so some criminal dirtbag can steal it, use it in a crime, and you guys can call me back here again to sit on the jury for his trial too? And while I would certainly love to discuss the merits of the notion that cops could be everywhere at once to prevent all possible crime, including riding next to me in my car all the way down here and back, we really need to take care of my firearm NOW, as I'm sure the judge will not appreciate any delay in my appearance in his courtroom caused by his security staff's failure to lawfully check my firearm as required by ARS 13-3102(A)(10).

They checked it ...


Originally Posted By mr_h:
as much as i hate to say it but open carry is politically incorrect now days. seems like us non-PC gun owners need to change with the times and just use the CCW method. i don't really like being a specticle anyway. i prefer CCW because it gives you the gun toting CCW guy an advantage over the dumb ass criminal. although if they see you open carry they maynot fuck with you anyway.

no easy answer.



Then go with the hard one. Screw political correctness, it is the tool of the enemy. Don't change with the times, change the times! No one said it would be easy, no one said it would be quick. But it'll be a whole hell of a lot easier and quicker now, to do it with our voices and our hearts, then to do it later, with our sweat and our blood.

Fight the soft war now, or fight the hard war later. Either way, you will fight.

"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves."
-- Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill (1874-1965),_The Gathering Storm,_bk.I ch.19 p.348 (Houghton Mifflin, 1948)

Link Posted: 7/29/2005 10:50:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Crzy_One:
Hey if your ever bored and want to flirt with death, try going to Desert Sky Mall on a Friday or Saturday a few hours before closing. Used to go there just to see the fights



Ha ha!! My boss calls that mall DESERT STORM!! I knew I was in a shit hole when all of the jewelry stores have obnoxious gold medallions in the window displays. Some were even Pot leaf medallions.

Oh the lovely symptoms of illegal immigration!
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 11:31:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 12:42:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hdwizard:
CCW is only for those who can afford it, and that is an intolerable situation.



We are not living in a communist state. Some people can afford items some cannot. Youa re still alowed to open carry all you want and carry anywhere on your own property.

Using the justification that all should be able to afford it is bordering on socialism and communism.

Be careful with that.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 12:54:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 10:40:29 PM EDT



God I can’t wait to get my CCW in Sept




I hope this is because you are a new resident with experience, and not a 20 year old that thinks having a CCW will make you ubercool. The decision to carry a concealed firearm is a HUGE responsibility, and one that should not be taken lightly.

Pinetop
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 11:02:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pinetop:



God I can’t wait to get my CCW in Sept




I hope this is because you are a new resident with experience, and not a 20 year old that thinks having a CCW will make you ubercool. The decision to carry a concealed firearm is a HUGE responsibility, and one that should not be taken lightly.

Pinetop



I’m 21 and just haven’t had the money to take the CCW until now. To me it has nothing to do with being cool epically since it will remain hidden

I have been around firearms for all of my life and have open carried a sidearm since I was 19, and understand the responsibility of owning/carrying a firearm.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 6:01:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Crzy_One:

Originally Posted By Pinetop:



God I can’t wait to get my CCW in Sept




I hope this is because you are a new resident with experience, and not a 20 year old that thinks having a CCW will make you ubercool. The decision to carry a concealed firearm is a HUGE responsibility, and one that should not be taken lightly.

Pinetop



I’m 21 and just haven’t had the money to take the CCW until now. To me it has nothing to do with being cool epically since it will remain hidden

I have been around firearms for all of my life and have open carried a sidearm since I was 19, and understand the responsibility of owning/carrying a firearm.




Maybe you do, but have you ever seen a grown man eat his own head?

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:06:49 AM EDT
hdwizard
No offense, but wrong approach. Last time I went for jury duty (Maricopa superior court), I approached the security gate and told them that I needed to check a firearm. They went into the spiel about citizens not needing to carry guns, only cops should have them, why don't you just leave it in the car, yadda yadda yadda. Answers are: If all of my fellow citizens are so trustworthy, then why am I here for jury duty? Why would I want to leave my firearm in my car here in the auto theft capitol of the US? Perhaps so some criminal dirtbag can steal it, use it in a crime, and you guys can call me back here again to sit on the jury for his trial too? And while I would certainly love to discuss the merits of the notion that cops could be everywhere at once to prevent all possible crime, including riding next to me in my car all the way down here and back, we really need to take care of my firearm NOW, as I'm sure the judge will not appreciate any delay in my appearance in his courtroom caused by his security staff's failure to lawfully check my firearm as required by ARS 13-3102(A)(10).

They checked it ...


I completely agree, but down here in Tucson, they just refused and offered to have me excused from jury duty. That was not an option because I feel I want gun owners on a jury if I ever need it. I'm a strong proponent of nullifying any laws I know to be bullshit in a trial. Throwing in the ARS code does nothing at our courthouse. They won that round of the fight. I won't move away, and admit that pima county is the leftist bastion of Az, but we will keep fighting for change.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:07:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CeramicGod:

Originally Posted By Crzy_One:

Originally Posted By Pinetop:



God I can’t wait to get my CCW in Sept




I hope this is because you are a new resident with experience, and not a 20 year old that thinks having a CCW will make you ubercool. The decision to carry a concealed firearm is a HUGE responsibility, and one that should not be taken lightly.

Pinetop



I’m 21 and just haven’t had the money to take the CCW until now. To me it has nothing to do with being cool epically since it will remain hidden

I have been around firearms for all of my life and have open carried a sidearm since I was 19, and understand the responsibility of owning/carrying a firearm.




Maybe you do, but have you ever seen a grown man eat his own head?




Im lost, care to explain???
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:13:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By doubletap04:
I took Momma & the little one school shopping the other day. just after doing the banking from her work & yes I have my HK on my side. well it seems that some people are a little afraid to have honest citizen open carry & was asked to leave the mall! They went as far as to have Chandler's fineist handy when telling me I had no right to open carry there. I asked where the posted sign was located (not on the main entrence or any entrence) I could find & when I asked for a copy of their policies I ws informed that that wasn't for public viewing & they don't hand it out.




The easy way to solve this would be to have people open carry there every few days or so. And each time the mall management asks the legal carrier to leave because he is carrying and they aren't in compliance with the law, they call the police. How long and how many do you think will it take before the Mall either posts or the POPO tell them to shove it and quit wasting their time?

Posting is not your desired end but IF that is the route they take, letters from local carriers to individual tenant shops with a simple note that now that the Mall has forbidden a legal activity you will no longer be a customer.

Don't get into any political diatribe or long winded discussion about rights etc. Just tell them they lost customers. They will get the message, the rest doesn't matter to them.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 2:30:16 PM EDT
Got to make this quick, on vacation in NY, and using a dial-up connection on someone else's phone line ...


Originally Posted By Dace:
We are not living in a communist state. Some people can afford items some cannot. Youa re still alowed to open carry all you want and carry anywhere on your own property.

Using the justification that all should be able to afford it is bordering on socialism and communism.

Be careful with that.



What SinstralRifleman said. We are being denied an integral part of our RKBA because ... why, exactly? Short answer is, because we let them. We have to stop letting them.


Originally Posted By AZ_Hoplite:
I completely agree, but down here in Tucson, they just refused and offered to have me excused from jury duty. That was not an option because I feel I want gun owners on a jury if I ever need it. I'm a strong proponent of nullifying any laws I know to be bullshit in a trial. Throwing in the ARS code does nothing at our courthouse. They won that round of the fight. I won't move away, and admit that pima county is the leftist bastion of Az, but we will keep fighting for change.



Gotcha, and I understand completely. I have never attempted to duck jury duty for the same reasons. If you could, it would be immensely helpful to our legislative efforts to have a statement detailing what you went through at the courthouse down there. We may attempt to run a bill this year that will solidify exactly what they can and can't get away with in public buildings WRT checking firearms, depending, of course, if we can find someone with the cojones to sponsor it. Stories like yours are a big help in getting legislators to back bills like ours. Let me know if you could write it up. I'll be back in AZ on 8/11, and will check back here occasionally between now and then.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:10:55 AM EDT
People may have the right to open carry in AZ, but places of businesses also have the right to set their own rules of who is allowed to carry firearms on their property. So basically, the only true place anyone is guaranteed to carry is outside, on the streets, in their own home or personal place of business.
But I do fail to see how someone representing the mall can come up to you and say you have no right to carry, even though AZ legislation in black and white says you do, but the mall cannot seem to want to show you their 'legislation' or policies in black and white such as on a sign. Who knows...whoever it was from the mall that said you couldn't carry a weapon in the mall, could of been making up their OWN laws or policies and not actual policies of the mall. So I say it must be proven to you, the customer AND the authorities that the mall has a NO GUN/WEAPON policy and not just some person's words.

Plus these people must be stupid if they don't realize people also carry concealed in great numbers in their malls anyways. I don't know if these businesses are ran by people who just came into Arizona from a anti-gun, non-CCW state and don't know that people have the right to carry in AZ or if they are just acting PC and saying that if you want to carry a weapon on their property then carry concealed because what they do not know won't scare them.

However, it may be a bad thing to argue with these sheeple, because then they WILL post NO WEAPONS signs and then you would be absolutely be banned from even carrying concealed because NOW there is a posted sign saying you can't where if there was no sign or policies posted you can legally deny that you knew you couldn't carry.

So the best thing is to shut up and either avoid these places if you must carry openly or get a CCW permit and carry concealed and keep a tactical advantage against people not knowing you are armed.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:24:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dust_Devil:


However, it may be a bad thing to argue with these sheeple, because then they WILL post NO WEAPONS signs and then you would be absolutely be banned from even carrying concealed because NOW there is a posted sign saying you can't where if there was no sign or policies posted you can legally deny that you knew you couldn't carry.




What he said. +1
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:10:39 PM EDT
Well to this day I've een no sign posted as to their weapons polices.



Link Posted: 8/17/2005 8:50:33 PM EDT


Here are the turds that own/operate most malls in Arizona. http://www.westcor.com/

These turds even have a policy that I have to surrender my driver license. To do A/C work on their roof. While in the mall, I asked a Phoenix PD about me not having legal identifcation on myself. He played stupid and said it was Westcor policy. That if something happened to me, they'd figure out who I was. What hours after I was dead.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:34:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:40:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TimW:


The problem is, if you can't (legally) to into the mall, how are you going to get the card to the manager....



Using the secret art of mall-ninjitsu.
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