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Posted: 6/11/2009 7:57:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 8:04:22 PM EST by EKUJustice]
What can you have on an ar15 in NJ and still be legal as far as stocks, barrels etc. Was planning on shooting there if possible this summer for a couple days and was just wondering which configurations were legal in the state as I am not a NJ resident.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 8:29:03 PM EST
-no bayo lug
-fixed stock
-no flash/sound suppressor, welded muzzle break
-can't be named an AR-15
-no mags capible of holding more than 15 rounds
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 8:29:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 8:29:29 PM EST by ZEROTHOMAS]
No bayo lug, no FH, no collapsible stocks, no folding stocks, 15 round magazines, compensator's ok as long as they are perm attached, no NFA period

edit

too slow lol
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 1:51:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
No bayo lug, no FH, no collapsible stocks, no folding stocks, 15 round magazines, compensator's ok as long as they are perm attached, no NFA period

edit

too slow lol


What statute requires that a comp is permanently attached?

Mike

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 3:39:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By MAP:
Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
No bayo lug, no FH, no collapsible stocks, no folding stocks, 15 round magazines, compensator's ok as long as they are perm attached, no NFA period

edit

too slow lol


What statute requires that a comp is permanently attached?

Mike



Isn't there a problem with threaded barrels in NJ? I mean God forbid we happen to have a silencer , where would we attach it? NJ is cutting edge libtard. Sounds like a no-brainer for them - threaded barrel = ability to attach a suppressor.

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 3:52:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By MAP:
Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
No bayo lug, no FH, no collapsible stocks, no folding stocks, 15 round magazines, compensator's ok as long as they are perm attached, no NFA period

edit

too slow lol


What statute requires that a comp is permanently attached?

Mike



Come on. You know there isn't one right?

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 4:16:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Originally Posted By MAP:
Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
No bayo lug, no FH, no collapsible stocks, no folding stocks, 15 round magazines, compensator's ok as long as they are perm attached, no NFA period

edit

too slow lol


What statute requires that a comp is permanently attached?

Mike



Come on. You know there isn't one right?



No statute, It's the AG's 1996 Interpretation/Clarification letter pertaining to the "Substantially Identical" provision. http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:18:02 AM EST
Install a bullet button and your worries dissapear...
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:43:21 AM EST
Whats this bullet button and what is the benefit of putting one in
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:54:56 AM EST
Whats this bullet button and what is the benefit of putting one in

It's a modified mag release button that requires the use of a tool (usually the tip of a 5.56 round) to release the magazine. In California, it satisfies the requirements of a non-detachable magazine, and therefore allows you to have "evil" features such as a pistol grip, flash suppressor, collapsible stock, etc.

In New Jersey, it's a good way to get yourself charged with unlawful possession of an assault firearm. I wouldn't recommend trying it.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:01:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tom488:
Whats this bullet button and what is the benefit of putting one in

It's a modified mag release button that requires the use of a tool (usually the tip of a 5.56 round) to release the magazine. In California, it satisfies the requirements of a non-detachable magazine, and therefore allows you to have "evil" features such as a pistol grip, flash suppressor, collapsible stock, etc.

In New Jersey, it's a good way to get yourself charged with unlawful possession of an assault firearm. I wouldn't recommend trying it.

Funny but true
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:01:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By Accuracy_With_Volume:
Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Originally Posted By MAP:
Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
No bayo lug, no FH, no collapsible stocks, no folding stocks, 15 round magazines, compensator's ok as long as they are perm attached, no NFA period

edit

too slow lol


What statute requires that a comp is permanently attached?

Mike



Come on. You know there isn't one right?



No statute, It's the AG's 1996 Interpretation/Clarification letter pertaining to the "Substantially Identical" provision. http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm


Thats not the law! Even if it was, according to the opinion letter having a welded on brake does overcome the threaded barrel.

Mike

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:11:16 AM EST
Whatever you do, don't go to Efinger Sporting Goods in Bound Brook and try to get a brake permanently attached. The guy there indignantly informed me that the upper was a firearm, the Cav Comp was a flash suppressor, and that there is no way to legally pin and weld a brake yourself. It has to come from the manufacturer permanently attached.

Anyway, back on topic.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:13:54 PM EST
Its funny, today a man came into where I work (who has been involved in firearms quite some time) and told me that even if you pin/weld it is still considered threaded because you would be able to grind the weld off and it would be threaded again. What kind of logic is that? Even if you had a target crown you could still buy a die and the die guide and thread it yourself, or even with a lathe of the sorts. Not only that, he told me all threaded muzzles are illegal, on any gun(now, I know thats not true).

The bigger question here, is who the fuck is enforcing the rules and to what degree? Has anyone even been arrested and charged for possesion of an assualt weapon in this state under those kind of circumstance?
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:19:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Its funny, today a man came into where I work (who has been involved in firearms quite some time) and told me that even if you pin/weld it is still considered threaded because you would be able to grind the weld off and it would be threaded again. What kind of logic is that? Even if you had a target crown you could still buy a die and the die guide and thread it yourself, or even with a lathe of the sorts. Not only that, he told me all threaded muzzles are illegal, on any gun(now, I know thats not true).

The bigger question here, is who the fuck is enforcing the rules and to what degree? Has anyone even been arrested and charged for possesion of an assualt weapon in this state under those kind of circumstance?


Even if it was very, super, extremely permanently attached, you could simply cut the barrel down short of it and then thread it with a die. Are all rifles considered SBRs because you can cut their barrels down to 11'' if you want? You're right, this makes no sense.

As to enforcement, nobody knows and the degrees vary. It's dangerous around here.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:37:33 PM EST
Nothing is ever perm, there is always a way to get shit off and on. What they mean by perm is NOT something you can just take on and off without the use of some kind of tool or smithing. Like the bullet button thing for example.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:38:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By LoganSackett:
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Its funny, today a man came into where I work (who has been involved in firearms quite some time) and told me that even if you pin/weld it is still considered threaded because you would be able to grind the weld off and it would be threaded again. What kind of logic is that? Even if you had a target crown you could still buy a die and the die guide and thread it yourself, or even with a lathe of the sorts. Not only that, he told me all threaded muzzles are illegal, on any gun(now, I know thats not true).

The bigger question here, is who the fuck is enforcing the rules and to what degree? Has anyone even been arrested and charged for possesion of an assualt weapon in this state under those kind of circumstance?


Even if it was very, super, extremely permanently attached, you could simply cut the barrel down short of it and then thread it with a die. Are all rifles considered SBRs because you can cut their barrels down to 11'' if you want? You're right, this makes no sense.

As to enforcement, nobody knows and the degrees vary. It's dangerous around here.


No kidding, im pretty sure anything can be jury rigged if they wanted to

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:07:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 6:13:56 PM EST by 240shwag]
Originally Posted By LoganSackett:
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Its funny, today a man came into where I work (who has been involved in firearms quite some time) and told me that even if you pin/weld it is still considered threaded because you would be able to grind the weld off and it would be threaded again. What kind of logic is that? Even if you had a target crown you could still buy a die and the die guide and thread it yourself, or even with a lathe of the sorts. Not only that, he told me all threaded muzzles are illegal, on any gun(now, I know thats not true).

The bigger question here, is who the fuck is enforcing the rules and to what degree? Has anyone even been arrested and charged for possesion of an assualt weapon in this state under those kind of circumstance?


Even if it was very, super, extremely permanently attached, you could simply cut the barrel down short of it and then thread it with a die. Are all rifles considered SBRs because you can cut their barrels down to 11'' if you want? You're right, this makes no sense.

As to enforcement, nobody knows and the degrees vary. It's dangerous around here.



Not to mention any bunghole with a little enginuity, tooling, and access to commonly found materials could hand craft an "assualt weapon" or fully automatic machine gun for that matter. Forming brass and even making your own gunpowder is possible. What is the purpose of any gun law again? What needs to really be done is simply enact extremely stiff punishment to crimes involving guns and conspiricys to use guns for crimes, but I guess we all already know that huh?

Also, SBRs arn't illegal, they are just regulated and taxed extra hard(by federal law at least), which I think is a little bit silly, but almost agreeable.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:26:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Originally Posted By LoganSackett:
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Its funny, today a man came into where I work (who has been involved in firearms quite some time) and told me that even if you pin/weld it is still considered threaded because you would be able to grind the weld off and it would be threaded again. What kind of logic is that? Even if you had a target crown you could still buy a die and the die guide and thread it yourself, or even with a lathe of the sorts. Not only that, he told me all threaded muzzles are illegal, on any gun(now, I know thats not true).

The bigger question here, is who the fuck is enforcing the rules and to what degree? Has anyone even been arrested and charged for possesion of an assualt weapon in this state under those kind of circumstance?


Even if it was very, super, extremely permanently attached, you could simply cut the barrel down short of it and then thread it with a die. Are all rifles considered SBRs because you can cut their barrels down to 11'' if you want? You're right, this makes no sense.

As to enforcement, nobody knows and the degrees vary. It's dangerous around here.



Not to mention any bunghole with a little enginuity, tooling, and access to commonly found materials could hand craft an "assualt weapon" or fully automatic machine gun for that matter. Forming brass and even making your own gunpowder is possible. What is the purpose of any gun law again? What needs to really be done is simply enact extremely stiff punishment to crimes involving guns and conspiricys to use guns for crimes, but I guess we all already know that huh?

Also, SBRs arn't illegal, they are just regulated and taxed extra hard(by federal law at least), which I think is a little bit silly, but almost agreeable.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:58:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Originally Posted By LoganSackett:
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Its funny, today a man came into where I work (who has been involved in firearms quite some time) and told me that even if you pin/weld it is still considered threaded because you would be able to grind the weld off and it would be threaded again. What kind of logic is that? Even if you had a target crown you could still buy a die and the die guide and thread it yourself, or even with a lathe of the sorts. Not only that, he told me all threaded muzzles are illegal, on any gun(now, I know thats not true).

The bigger question here, is who the fuck is enforcing the rules and to what degree? Has anyone even been arrested and charged for possesion of an assualt weapon in this state under those kind of circumstance?


Even if it was very, super, extremely permanently attached, you could simply cut the barrel down short of it and then thread it with a die. Are all rifles considered SBRs because you can cut their barrels down to 11'' if you want? You're right, this makes no sense.

As to enforcement, nobody knows and the degrees vary. It's dangerous around here.



Not to mention any bunghole with a little enginuity, tooling, and access to commonly found materials could hand craft an "assualt weapon" or fully automatic machine gun for that matter. Forming brass and even making your own gunpowder is possible. What is the purpose of any gun law again? What needs to really be done is simply enact extremely stiff punishment to crimes involving guns and conspiricys to use guns for crimes, but I guess we all already know that huh?

Also, SBRs arn't illegal, they are just regulated and taxed extra hard(by federal law at least), which I think is a little bit silly, but almost agreeable.


Absolutely agree. The law is in the place to regulate, define what is allowed and what is not. No one should enforce you, but your own consciousness. But if you intentionally violate the law the punishment must be severe.

Here in LI i can bring almost anything to the range. Some people may ask questions only for the reason they are concerned for a fellow rifleman. When they see a collapsible stock attached to AK, all they care is give a good advise. For example, some people said the collapsible stock must be pinned wit a roll pin, others agreed that a blind screw is good enough. The only lesson, I have learned so far is, as long as you dont do any stupid things, no one will bother you, but once you violate the law, it will back fire at you with all the might it has
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:14:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By BKLYN_C:
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Originally Posted By LoganSackett:
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Its funny, today a man came into where I work (who has been involved in firearms quite some time) and told me that even if you pin/weld it is still considered threaded because you would be able to grind the weld off and it would be threaded again. What kind of logic is that? Even if you had a target crown you could still buy a die and the die guide and thread it yourself, or even with a lathe of the sorts. Not only that, he told me all threaded muzzles are illegal, on any gun(now, I know thats not true).

The bigger question here, is who the fuck is enforcing the rules and to what degree? Has anyone even been arrested and charged for possesion of an assualt weapon in this state under those kind of circumstance?


Even if it was very, super, extremely permanently attached, you could simply cut the barrel down short of it and then thread it with a die. Are all rifles considered SBRs because you can cut their barrels down to 11'' if you want? You're right, this makes no sense.

As to enforcement, nobody knows and the degrees vary. It's dangerous around here.



Not to mention any bunghole with a little enginuity, tooling, and access to commonly found materials could hand craft an "assualt weapon" or fully automatic machine gun for that matter. Forming brass and even making your own gunpowder is possible. What is the purpose of any gun law again? What needs to really be done is simply enact extremely stiff punishment to crimes involving guns and conspiricys to use guns for crimes, but I guess we all already know that huh?

Also, SBRs arn't illegal, they are just regulated and taxed extra hard(by federal law at least), which I think is a little bit silly, but almost agreeable.


Absolutely agree. The law is in the place to regulate, define what is allowed and what is not. No one should enforce you, but your own consciousness. But if you intentionally violate the law the punishment must be severe.

Here in LI i can bring almost anything to the range. Some people may ask questions only for the reason they are concerned for a fellow rifleman. When they see a collapsible stock attached to AK, all they care is give a good advise. For example, some people said the collapsible stock must be pinned wit a roll pin, others agreed that a blind screw is good enough. The only lesson, I have learned so far is, as long as you dont do any stupid things, no one will bother you, but once you violate the law, it will back fire at you with all the might it has


I always try to help fellow shooters at the range but sometimes i think they will get the wrong idea and give me an attitude. Its happened before. Some people like attracting attention though which isnt a good thing
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:58:16 PM EST
Yep, sometimes you may get an attitude in response to your well concerned question and good will.
Have to admit, first time I was approached by a very good man at Brookheaven range I gave him my attitude. Now I very much regret that, and wish i could get a chance to apologize the the the Man in person
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:15:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By BKLYN_C:
Yep, sometimes you may get an attitude in response to your well concerned question and good will.
Have to admit, first time I was approached by a very good man at Brookheaven range I gave him my attitude. Now I very much regret that, and wish i could get a chance to apologize the the the Man in person


If they approach with a nice calm tone of voice and try to be nice i wont give an attitude. If some prick comes up to me yelling and telling me what is legal and what isnt and what i shouldnt have....well homie dont play that shit.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:02:05 AM EST
http://www.sussexcountyjustice.com/guns.html

Interesting article on what may be "legal" in NJ. It really it comes down to not showing up on someones radar. You dont have to be paranoid just don't be reckless.

If you read the NJ laws you'll find they are open to many interpretations by LE officials "In enforcing this law, prosecutors and police should remember that an assault firearms offense requires proof that the defendant knows he or she possesses an assault firearm, e.g., that the defendant knows that the firearm is "substantially identical" to one of the named assault weapons."

You just have to make sure you know the requirements of the law and sadly "believe" that you dont posess a "substantially identical" weapon to the one on the ban list.....yeah right....

Man I need to move........

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:44:27 PM EST
If you read the NJ laws you'll find they are open to many interpretations by LE officials "In enforcing this law, prosecutors and police should remember that an assault firearms offense requires proof that the defendant knows he or she possesses an assault firearm, e.g., that the defendant knows that the firearm is "substantially identical" to one of the named assault weapons."

Actually, in the appeal of the Pelleteri conviction, his attorney argued exactly that... that Mr. Pelleteri didn't know that the Marlin 60 in question was capable of holding 17 rounds. The court ruled that the "knowingly" in the statute refered to the "possession" part, and NOT the specific characteristics of the rifle. Therefore, since Mr. Pelleteri KNEW that he possessed the Marlin 60, that was enough to satisfy the law, and his conviction was upheld.

The timing on this reference couldn't have been more ironic... as I just got a call the other day from an anonymous acquaintence, and during the conversation he mentioned that he had an old Marlin model 99 (which was the predecessor to the Model 60, and had an 18-round tubular magazine). Well, said magazine is now permenently blocked to 15 rounds - but he was stunned when I explained that he could be sentenced to 5-10 years in state prison for that little plinker, as it was deemed a dangerous assault firearm by the State of NJ.

I'm reminded of another quote from the Pelleteri appeal: "When dealing with firearms, the citizen [of NJ] acts at his peril". Ain't it the truth...
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:33:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tom488:
snip ... I just got a call the other day from an anonymous acquaintence, and during the conversation he mentioned that he had an old Marlin model 99 (which was the predecessor to the Model 60, and had an 18-round tubular magazine). Well, said magazine is now permenently blocked to 15 rounds - but he was stunned when I explained that he could be sentenced to 5-10 years in state prison for that little plinker, as it was deemed a dangerous assault firearm by the State of NJ.... snip


I have a Model 60(no dash) whose capacity was permanently limited by the dealer. He used a tubing cutter and indented (not slice through) the brass inner mag tube so that its plastic follower couldn't pass the indentation. btw, the original unmodified part is still available for those no longer subject to our asinine AWB who want to restore their mag capacity.


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