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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/9/2005 1:17:46 PM EDT
sorry if a dupe, but i feel its important....


Friday, September 9, 2005


Michigan bills would allow residents to fatally shoot intruders

People who kill someone breaking into their home or vehicle would not be prosecuted.

Associated Press



LANSING -- Michigan residents could fatally shoot someone who breaks into their home or vehicle without facing criminal or civil prosecution under proposed legislation.

The two-bill package, which is opposed by anti-gun violence groups, would assume that a person who forcibly enters or intrudes in a home or occupied vehicle intends to kill or hurt the owner or occupant. It is patterned after a law signed earlier this year in Florida.

The bills, introduced Wednesday, also would eliminate the requirement that people who are being attacked have to retreat before responding, as long as they're in a place they legally have a right to be.

Republican Reps. Tom Casperson of Escanaba and Rick Jones of Grand Ledge introduced the bills. They said the legislation will prevent residents from having to worry about whether they are justified in using force to defend their families and property.

"This legislation makes it clear that you will not be prosecuted or sued for defending your life, family or property in your own home," Casperson said in a written statement. "This will prevent criminals or their families from suing victims for injury or death."

The new Florida law, which takes effect Oct. 1, gives residents the right to defend themselves in public spaces, including on the street or in a place of business.

The Michigan bills are limited to using deadly force to protect a person's home or vehicle, but Jones said he would be willing to consider extending it to other areas.

Carolynne Jarvis of the Michigan Partnership to Prevent Gun Violence criticized the bills. She was an opponent of a 2001 law making it easier to get a Michigan license to carry a concealed weapon.

"When concealed carry was expanded in Michigan, the rationale was that guns only would be used as a last result. This is basically saying guns are going to be the first resort," she said. "It's more likely you're going to end up shooting your son coming home late from a date ... than you are an intruder."

The bills were referred to the House Judiciary Committee.



Link Posted: 9/9/2005 7:10:04 PM EDT
I heard about this bill originally on an AM talk radio show in Lansing. The ass-clowns on there were talking about how the bill would allow you to shoot people for stealing your property. It boggles my mind why the media can't understand that all this bill does is remove the duty to retreat.

It makes perfect sense to me, since turning your back on a criminal to escape into your own home is absolutely idiotic, yet mandated by the current law. The media makes it seem like you can shoot somebody for stealing your newspaper.

I hope this passes, but I am not exactly holding my breath, as we have a lot of damn liberals in this state, including our beloved governor.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 6:57:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 6:58:58 AM EDT by G_22]

Originally Posted By silverc:
I heard about this bill originally on an AM talk radio show in Lansing. The ass-clowns on there were talking about how the bill would allow you to shoot people for stealing your property. It boggles my mind why the media can't understand that all this bill does is remove the duty to retreat.

It makes perfect sense to me, since turning your back on a criminal to escape into your own home is absolutely idiotic, yet mandated by the current law. The media makes it seem like you can shoot somebody for stealing your newspaper.

I hope this passes, but I am not exactly holding my breath, as we have a lot of damn liberals in this state, including our beloved governor.



There is NO duty to retreat in your own home, your attached garage or attached deck/patio in Michigan. Michigan has the castle doctrine.

You do have the duty to retreat if your in your yard, unattached garage, or anywhere that's not perminently attached to your home. This law will remove the duty to retreat from these places and anywhere else you may be cayyring at the time, except for the CEZ's listed on the back of your CPL.

And I hope it passes.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 8:06:43 AM EDT
This was in the Friday (Sept 9) Flint Journal Editorial page.


Pending Michigan bills that would give somewhat firmer authority for people to shoot intruders in their homes or cars without fear of prosecution amounts to "feel-good" legislation. (my emphasis)

There is no clear need for such a law, considering the virtual nonexistence of prosecution of residents who shoot people who forcibly enter their prime safety zones. What prosecutor would go forth with such a charge? What jury would convict?

Reps. Tom Casperson of Escanaba and Rick Jones of Grand Ledge explain their introduction of the bills as a way to relieve people from having to worry about whether it would be justified to use force while protecting themselves or others against intruders. The two Republican lawmakers say they want to remove a requirement that people being attacked in their homes must try to retreat before shooting.

But when such moments of crisis and panic occur, there is hardly time for choreographing or analytical consideration anyway.

The bills seem designed to advance the agenda of the gun-rights lobby, which persuaded Michigan in 2001 to liberalize the standards for granting gun permits. Fears at the time that armed people might run amok admittedly were not realized, and as a result of that experience the currently pending "shooting-an-intruder" bills probably won't lessen public safety.

The change would be more worrisome if the Casperson-Jones bills extended beyond the realm of home and vehicle, as does a Florida law that strengthens the right to presumably shoot in a public street or place of business. That extension of the theory raises many concerns, such as the possibility for misreading the intent of someone who innocently approaches a stranger, and danger to unsuspecting people who find themselves in the crossfire.

Yet, Jones said he is open to considering a broader version of his bill that would expand legal protection for shooting in self-defense beyond the immediate domicile or vehicle. That kind of legislation, if offered, should be resisted.

Michigan probably does not need the bills Casperson and Jones have proposed either, and on that premise the state would be better off without them. However, at least they seem harmless, except perhaps for people who delude themselves into thinking their personal safety would be enhanced.





Link Posted: 9/10/2005 7:39:08 PM EDT
Feel good or not, it sounds like an extra layer of protection/piece of mind for us armed and law abiding citizens.

Let's all hope this law gets passed.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:08:27 AM EDT
Flint, the city Michael Moore put on the map! No suprises there!

At least they half-assed endorsed it.

I hope it gets passed!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:04:17 AM EDT
Make no mistake, there are plenty of asshats opposed to this and ready to fight it.


STATE HOUSE CONSIDERING “MAKE MY DAY” BILL
Would let Michiganders shoot anywhere, at anyone who scares them

Call the State House Judiciary Chairman Today: 517-373-8900
Tell Him to Oppose the NRA’s Plan for Armed Vigilantes in Michigan!

Dear Michigan StoptheNRA Member,

As soon as tomorrow, a committee in the Michigan State House may consider two terrible bills that would allow people to fire their gun at anyone who scares them, even if they are in crowded public spaces like bars or buses, or on the freeway. These bills (HB 5143/5153) will encourage people to take the law into their own hands, and will give folks with itchy trigger fingers permission to pull the trigger. We must stop this bad, and very dangerous, bill from becoming law in Michigan.

Please Call State House Judiciary Chairman
William VanRegenmorter Today: 517-373-8900
Give him the message:
“Stop the NRA’s Plan for Armed Vigilantes in Michigan. Oppose HB 5143 and HB 5153!”

Everyone supports the right of self-defense. The problem is when people take the law into their own hands, and use their gun to settle disputes. When a gun is used, the results are usually more lethal and the potential for innocent bystanders to be injured or killed is greatly increased.

These bills will lead to more people putting themselves in the role of police, prosecutor, judge, and jury — with deadly consequences. The NRA and their allies in the Michigan state legislature want to put this bill on the fast track and try to sneak it by us…but we can’t let them. Please call today.

Here is what you can do:

1. CALL TODAY: Michigan House Judiciary Chairman William VanRegenmorter at 517-373-8900.

2. Urge him to “Stop the NRA’s Plan for Armed Vigilantes in Michigan. Oppose HB 5143/5153!”

3. Forward this e-mail to friends, family, and colleagues in Michigan.

4. Click here to contribute to our efforts to this law in Michigan and to defeat similar laws across the country.

For more information on this legislation and how to get involved in the gun violence prevention movement in Michigan, please contact the Michigan Partnership to Prevent Gun Violence-On Target Coalition and the Michigan Million Mom March Chapters.

Thank you for standing with our police and keeping our communities safe!


Sincerely,
Your Friends at StoptheNRA.com



Use the numbers provided and support this bill now.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:21:38 PM EDT
can we write to someone or something to get this bill passed if so can someone pm me thanks please keep me posted about this matter thanks
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:05:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 4:15:27 AM EDT by G_22]
Here is the bills:

www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=2005-HB-5143

www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=2005-HB-5153


Send letters to members of the Judiciary committee thats where this bill is being sent. Also ask the Chairmen to get a hearing scheduled.

house.michigan.gov/committeeinfo.asp?lstcommittees=judiciary&submit=Go


CALL TODAY: Michigan House Judiciary Chairman William VanRegenmorter at 517-373-8900.



Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:27:02 PM EDT
They should just pass the SSS legislation. Anyone caught breaking into your home or stealing your property gives up all constitutional and civil rights and is no longer under the protection of the law.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 9:32:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By silverc:

I hope this passes, but I am not exactly holding my breath, as we have a lot of damn liberals in this state, including our beloved governor.



Fixed that for you

No Expert
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:07:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 4:08:25 AM EDT by metroplex]
There was an article in the UofM paper about this new bill. The article said the anti-gunners are coming after the Michigan bill because they "accidentally let" Florida pass it, and they will not make the same mistake again because it will set a precedent for other states. No shit! I hope it passes and every state has something put into effect.

The Republican representatives were the ones backing the new proposed legislation, but unfortunately, Michigan is a blue state (all of the newly elected reps for our district were Democrats). I'm pretty sure Gov. Granholm is staying out of this if she wants to be re-elected...
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:21:37 AM EDT
The Free Press did a hatched-job editorial about it with a "License to kill" spin on it. I wrote them and they actually printed most of what I had to say! The crux of it was that a burgler/carjacker's rights end at my doorstep, I shouldn't have to giv up my life savings defending myself from the perp's family or and overzealous prosecutor, and lastly, it's not "Shooting to kill", it's Shooting to Live.

Dave
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