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Posted: 10/26/2006 5:31:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2006 6:10:54 PM EST by ClutchTsi]
I just wanted to clear this up . Is it legal to CCW at gun shows , and at the Gibralter trade center shows . Or do they fall into that over 2,500 peaple limet thing .

edit for (sp) .
Thanks jb241970 .

Link Posted: 10/26/2006 5:34:06 PM EST
facilities like that make me wonder. the seating capacity is often dependent on the seating configuration.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 5:42:16 PM EST
I've read somewhere that is illegal, however, they do ask about weapons and they do have zip ties to secure them. Also, I remember at the Mt clemens show, seeing the door/security guy cutting off a zip tie and handing back a pistol to a guy, and seeing the guy put it in a shoulder holster under his jacket. So I really dont know.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 5:42:26 PM EST
Leagle like beagle, or legal?





Just kiddin'!!
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 11:34:58 PM EST
My understanding is that it's not a legal issue, but one of liability insurance. The idea behind a concealed weapon is to be able to be armed and not have anyone else know about it, right?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 3:44:09 AM EST
I recently went to the gun show in Kalamazoo and they prohibited people from bringing weapons in. I do know that many of the gun dealers were carrying but the 2 of them that showed me their carry piece had them completely unloaded.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 6:46:30 AM EST
Learn the term Non-Permissive Environment (NPE).

If they don't have a sign posted prohibiting concealed carry and a metal detector use your own judgment.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:50:04 AM EST
At the Hillsdale and Mason MI shows they want you to clear the weapon of Ammo which they will hold for you at the Front entrance.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:34:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By ms329:
At the Hillsdale and Mason MI shows they want you to clear the weapon of Ammo which they will hold for you at the Front entrance.


And how do they know you're carrying unless you tell them or show them? I'm sure the criminals are doing the same in absence of a metal detector...
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:04:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Section1_Operations:

Originally Posted By ms329:
At the Hillsdale and Mason MI shows they want you to clear the weapon of Ammo which they will hold for you at the Front entrance.


And how do they know you're carrying unless you tell them or show them? I'm sure the criminals are doing the same in absence of a metal detector...


LOL! Right, my question is this..If your going into a store and a rent a cop is asking everyone if your carrying are you going to tell him? HELL NO! Especially if you dont see a sign and its legal for carry.

What I dont understand is how can they keep you from carrying, but they let the dealers carry in plan sigght? Correct me if I am wrong, but dont the laws apply to them just like they do to us when it comes to Carrying?

ANt
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 10:22:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bigant:

Originally Posted By Section1_Operations:

Originally Posted By ms329:
At the Hillsdale and Mason MI shows they want you to clear the weapon of Ammo which they will hold for you at the Front entrance.


And how do they know you're carrying unless you tell them or show them? I'm sure the criminals are doing the same in absence of a metal detector...


LOL! Right, my question is this..If your going into a store and a rent a cop is asking everyone if your carrying are you going to tell him? HELL NO! Especially if you dont see a sign and its legal for carry.

What I dont understand is how can they keep you from carrying, but they let the dealers carry in plan sigght? Correct me if I am wrong, but dont the laws apply to them just like they do to us when it comes to Carrying?

ANt


On private property the dealers may have expressed permission to carry but them again private property rules "technically" get legally enforced through trespassing the person from the site. Short of there being a written state statute on the matter there’s little they can get you on even if they fail to post a sign banning CCW.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:42:04 AM EST
I believe it is a question of liability.
Many years ago I was setting up at a Bill Goodman show at the 8 Mile Armory and someone had a loaded gun on the table a .22 and it went off. A man was hurt and soon after that all guns had to be checked at the door. Sometime later the zip ties came in.
Carrying a loaded CCW is the same as bringing in a loaded firearm to the show to sell or trade or whatever. If someone pulled out their CCW and tried out a new holster and the damn thing went off there would be hell to pay. I'm sure as guys are milling around at the consession stand and talking about guns someone would pull out their CCW to show it to someone and once again there could be a problem.
At the Birch Run show I saw the guards asking people to unload their weapons and I believe that they put the magazines in a zip lock bag and you retreive them as you leave. The guard mentioned that some guys forget and leave without the mags.

I went to the GR show yesterday. I know the drill and secured my weapon in the car.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:37:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 6:39:06 AM EST by anotherlefty]

Originally Posted By Bigant:




What I dont understand is how can they keep you from carrying, but they let the dealers carry in plan sigght? Correct me if I am wrong, but dont the laws apply to them just like they do to us when it comes to Carrying?

ANt


Prior to the doors opening at all of the Sport Show Promotions (Doug Carl) shows, Doug makes an announcement that there are no loaded firearms allowed in the building and that if any dealer has a loaded firearm, he is to exit the building, unload and then he may return to the building.
The dealers that you see carrying openly are carrying empty firearms.
If a dealer is caught carrying a loaded firearm during a show, my understanding is that the dealer would be booted.

Same policy is in effect at Gibralter although they do not make the announcement, it is printed on the form that dealers sign to reserve their tables.

There is no double standard.


I believe this policy is pretty universal and it's not just a Michigan thing.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:59:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By northman:
I believe it is a question of liability.
Many years ago I was setting up at a Bill Goodman show at the 8 Mile Armory and someone had a loaded gun on the table a .22 and it went off. A man was hurt and soon after that all guns had to be checked at the door. Sometime later the zip ties came in.
Carrying a loaded CCW is the same as bringing in a loaded firearm to the show to sell or trade or whatever. If someone pulled out their CCW and tried out a new holster and the damn thing went off there would be hell to pay. I'm sure as guys are milling around at the consession stand and talking about guns someone would pull out their CCW to show it to someone and once again there could be a problem.
At the Birch Run show I saw the guards asking people to unload their weapons and I believe that they put the magazines in a zip lock bag and you retreive them as you leave. The guard mentioned that some guys forget and leave without the mags.

I went to the GR show yesterday. I know the drill and secured my weapon in the car.


Concealed means keep it CONCEALED until it needs to be used.

If a person is the type of Neanderthal that always going around showing everyone their tool or trying it with the latest accessories then maybe this is the type of person rules are specifically designed for, and they shouldn't carry a concealed pistol to begin with.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:19:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Section1_Operations:

Originally Posted By northman:
I believe it is a question of liability.
Many years ago I was setting up at a Bill Goodman show at the 8 Mile Armory and someone had a loaded gun on the table a .22 and it went off. A man was hurt and soon after that all guns had to be checked at the door. Sometime later the zip ties came in.
Carrying a loaded CCW is the same as bringing in a loaded firearm to the show to sell or trade or whatever. If someone pulled out their CCW and tried out a new holster and the damn thing went off there would be hell to pay. I'm sure as guys are milling around at the consession stand and talking about guns someone would pull out their CCW to show it to someone and once again there could be a problem.
At the Birch Run show I saw the guards asking people to unload their weapons and I believe that they put the magazines in a zip lock bag and you retreive them as you leave. The guard mentioned that some guys forget and leave without the mags.

I went to the GR show yesterday. I know the drill and secured my weapon in the car.


Concealed means keep it CONCEALED until it needs to be used.

If a person is the type of Neanderthal that always going around showing everyone their tool or trying it with the latest accessories then maybe this is the type of person rules are specifically designed for, and they shouldn't carry a concealed pistol to begin with.


That's exactly the point that I was trying to make. There is always some A##hole that would screw it up. I have checked guns before to see that they were unloaded and safe to handle and nothing is more discerning than to see that cartridge flip out of a supposelly empty chamber.


I don't like it anymore than anyone else but unfortunately we are always dealing with the lowest common demoninator when it comes to gun safety. I've seen it in the military, gun ranges etc. Even in my deer camp all weapons are unloaded outside, chambers empty when you walk in the door. Why would I expect any difference at a gunshow with a room full of strangers?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:25:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By anotherlefty:

Originally Posted By Bigant:




What I dont understand is how can they keep you from carrying, but they let the dealers carry in plan sigght? Correct me if I am wrong, but dont the laws apply to them just like they do to us when it comes to Carrying?

ANt


Prior to the doors opening at all of the Sport Show Promotions (Doug Carl) shows, Doug makes an announcement that there are no loaded firearms allowed in the building and that if any dealer has a loaded firearm, he is to exit the building, unload and then he may return to the building.
The dealers that you see carrying openly are carrying empty firearms.
If a dealer is caught carrying a loaded firearm during a show, my understanding is that the dealer would be booted.

Same policy is in effect at Gibralter although they do not make the announcement, it is printed on the form that dealers sign to reserve their tables.

There is no double standard.


I believe this policy is pretty universal and it's not just a Michigan thing.


Well than, I guess we cant complain to much. But its still a lousy rule.....okay than one more question, why dont they have there Handgun tied open with that plastic tie?

Ant
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:58:36 PM EST
I don't know the answer to that one, other than the promoter has some leveridge against them.
Personally, I think dealers openly carrying at shows is a bad idea.
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