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Posted: 4/16/2010 11:32:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2010 11:35:35 AM EDT by Reeves]
In a lawsuit styled “United States of America versus 594 assorted rifles,” federal prosecutors in Fort Worth are seeking the forfeiture of a stockpile of weapons seized in rural Texas from an unlicensed firearms dealer.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36588857/ns/local_news-dallasfort_worth_tx/
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 11:40:12 AM EDT
No criminal charges have been filed. On what grounds are they trying to take the firearms away then? Having too many?


Link Posted: 4/16/2010 12:02:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MateFrio:
No criminal charges have been filed. On what grounds are they trying to take the firearms away then? Having too many?




Yeah, the civil forfeiture laws are a major crock of BS though... and the way these things go the gov't may be able to successfully steal all these rifles and destroy them w/o ever filing any criminal charges, let alone getting a guilty verdict.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 12:40:03 PM EDT
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other than lying about what was in the truck, (Which is fucked up BTW), What did the guy do wrong? Is there a certain number of weapons you can transport? As long as you can prove they are yours with a bill of sale or other documentation, I do not see the issue.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 1:16:22 PM EDT
I know that guy! Sold guns & ammo, surplus in The Shotgun News. I bought ammo from him & my Mac-10 semi auto. Told me & my dad we should buy as many as we could afford, as they were fixing to pull the open bolt guns.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 1:44:57 PM EDT
In my opinion, civil forfeiture is unconstitutional, period.
No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


According to the supreme court that doesn't mean what we all know it means.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 2:47:14 PM EDT
A more recent story...

18-Wheeler Filled with Hidden Assault Rifles, Deputies Say
Published : Friday, 16 Apr 2010, 2:00 PM CDT
By Alice Wolke Kalthoff | MYFOXDFW.COM


ELLIS COUNTY, Texas - North Texas lawmen say they stopped an 18-wheeler that had dozens of hidden guns bound for the Texas-Mexico border last week.

Ellis County sheriff's deputies stopped a semi-truck that was southbound on I-35 during a routine traffic stop on Friday, April 9.

They asked the driver if they could search the truck, but wanted some better light, so the driver agreed to drive to the Wal-Mart parking lot in Waxahachie.

During their search, deputies say they found 28 assault rifles and about 700 rounds of ammunition and loaded magazines hidden in the trailer.

The sheriff's office says the truck was headed for Laredo. The driver's name is not being released right now as the investigation is still ongoing.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 6:42:54 PM EDT
I am 90% sure that there is a Cheaper Than Dirt price sticker on that battle pack of Wolf Black box ammo... Anyone else see that?
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 7:44:11 PM EDT
Well that just sux about the unlawful seizure!! There are some beauties in there!!!!
Our system is in a TERRIBLE sad state of affairs!
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 7:47:00 PM EDT
Nothing illegal here. What crime was committed? So, if I decide to drive down south and have a car full of guns, am I going to have the same happen or do differnt rules apply to commercial vehicles? Since when did the USA care about what goes on in the corrupt countries south of our border.

I would think LEO would be more concerned about certain individuals that drive around DFW with M60's in their trunks.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 9:13:25 PM EDT
And I bet they were all headed down to Mexico too. Fucking sucks for that guy.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 5:35:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By renkin2688:
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other than lying about what was in the truck, (Which is fucked up BTW), What did the guy do wrong? Is there a certain number of weapons you can transport? As long as you can prove they are yours with a bill of sale or other documentation, I do not see the issue.


What!? I don't have a bill of sale for my watch or my cell phone or my camera or for my kids portable DVD player or electronic games. Does that mean the government can confiscate them as suspected stolen property?

Why do I seem to hear a lot of stories about LEOs wanting to check the s/n on every firearm from everyone they meet professionally? Do they also check the s/n for all the person's other possessions?
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 6:11:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bitmap:
Originally Posted By renkin2688:
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other than lying about what was in the truck, (Which is fucked up BTW), What did the guy do wrong? Is there a certain number of weapons you can transport? As long as you can prove they are yours with a bill of sale or other documentation, I do not see the issue.


What!? I don't have a bill of sale for my watch or my cell phone or my camera or for my kids portable DVD player or electronic games. Does that mean the government can confiscate them as suspected stolen property?

Why do I seem to hear a lot of stories about LEOs wanting to check the s/n on every firearm from everyone they meet professionally? Do they also check the s/n for all the person's other possessions?


They can fuck off. If they want to check the serial number on my firearm they can get a warrant.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 6:56:06 AM EDT
From what I've heard, Mexican used car dealers are the only folks that can walk around with large volumes of cash without fear of confiscation. This is due to the fact American folks won't accept Mexican checks or money orders. So if these guys come up to buy used cars and have "excess" cash when they go home, no problems. Anybody want to confirm?
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:28:41 AM EDT
If the driver was headed to laredo, and intended to sell, or deliver the guns to mexicans,
I'm glad the dip-shit got arrested. That's just what the anti-gunners need is more fuel to add
to their fire about all these weapons heading to Mexico.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:58:52 AM EDT
I'm glad the dip-shit got arrested
this
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:33:06 AM EDT

there are two stories here - 1 is the guy headed south on I-35, the other is the guy headed to East on I-40.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 11:43:50 AM EDT
I think the grounds are "because we can".
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 7:20:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By renkin2688:
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other than lying about what was in the truck, (Which is fucked up BTW), What did the guy do wrong? Is there a certain number of weapons you can transport? As long as you can prove they are yours with a bill of sale or other documentation, I do not see the issue.


Screw that. Burden of proof is on the accuser.

Link Posted: 4/18/2010 5:38:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hrt4me:
A more recent story...

18-Wheeler Filled with Hidden Assault Rifles, Deputies Say
Published : Friday, 16 Apr 2010, 2:00 PM CDT
By Alice Wolke Kalthoff | MYFOXDFW.COM


ELLIS COUNTY, Texas - North Texas lawmen say they stopped an 18-wheeler that had dozens of hidden guns bound for the Texas-Mexico border last week.

Ellis County sheriff's deputies stopped a semi-truck that was southbound on I-35 during a routine traffic stop on Friday, April 9.

They asked the driver if they could search the truck, but wanted some better light, so the driver agreed to drive to the Wal-Mart parking lot in Waxahachie.

During their search, deputies say they found 28 assault rifles and about 700 rounds of ammunition and loaded magazines hidden in the trailer.

The sheriff's office says the truck was headed for Laredo. The driver's name is not being released right now as the investigation is still ongoing.
http://media2.myfoxdfw.com//photo/2010/04/16/gunsfound_20100416135821_640_480.JPG


Now let's not jump to conclusions y'all... This fella may have been heading down to there to kick some ass and turn the battle zone into a DMZ all on his own!!!
With the help of CTD that is!
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 7:09:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Solodevice:
Originally Posted By hrt4me:
A more recent story...

18-Wheeler Filled with Hidden Assault Rifles, Deputies Say
Published : Friday, 16 Apr 2010, 2:00 PM CDT
By Alice Wolke Kalthoff | MYFOXDFW.COM


ELLIS COUNTY, Texas - North Texas lawmen say they stopped an 18-wheeler that had dozens of hidden guns bound for the Texas-Mexico border last week.

Ellis County sheriff's deputies stopped a semi-truck that was southbound on I-35 during a routine traffic stop on Friday, April 9.

They asked the driver if they could search the truck, but wanted some better light, so the driver agreed to drive to the Wal-Mart parking lot in Waxahachie.

During their search, deputies say they found 28 assault rifles and about 700 rounds of ammunition and loaded magazines hidden in the trailer.

The sheriff's office says the truck was headed for Laredo. The driver's name is not being released right now as the investigation is still ongoing.
http://media2.myfoxdfw.com//photo/2010/04/16/gunsfound_20100416135821_640_480.JPG


Now let's not jump to conclusions y'all... This fella may have been heading down to there to kick some ass and turn the battle zone into a DMZ all on his own!!!
With the help of CTD that is!


You do realize that 700 rounds of ammunition only comes to 25 rounds per weapon. That's less than a full mag each. It should be that much per weapon. I like to keep about 4 times that much for each weapon.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 7:23:56 AM EDT
were they hidden in a secret compartment or just in the back of the truck, like in the storage area? interesting, I think if they were found in a hidden storage compartment they are probably thinking there may be some sort of intent to do something illegal with them. I have no idea what the grounds for the civil suit are....
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 9:44:34 AM EDT
When I travel with a large volume of weapons, I prefer to keep them as hidden as possible. I think they might have him on commercial vs. private vehicle. What if he was heading down to Laredo to sell these firearms - nothing illegal about that NOW.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 2:12:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tboy:
When I travel with a large volume of weapons, I prefer to keep them as hidden as possible. I think they might have him on commercial vs. private vehicle. What if he was heading down to Laredo to sell these firearms - nothing illegal about that NOW.


Are you saying international sales of firearms is legal (without special dealer's licenses)? And given the publicity (fake though it may be) about arms being sold to Mexican drug dealers, I would think there's at least the smell of probable cause here ...

Just sayin'

.
.

Link Posted: 4/18/2010 6:59:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MikefromTX:
Originally Posted By Tboy:
When I travel with a large volume of weapons, I prefer to keep them as hidden as possible. I think they might have him on commercial vs. private vehicle. What if he was heading down to Laredo to sell these firearms - nothing illegal about that NOW.


Are you saying international sales of firearms is legal (without special dealer's licenses)? And given the publicity (fake though it may be) about arms being sold to Mexican drug dealers, I would think there's at least the smell of probable cause here ...

Just sayin'

.
.



Laredo is inside the US. Nothing illegal until if/when someone tries to cross the border with them. There is no probable cause unless you've got some more detailed reason to think that the guy intended to do so. Otherwise its just pure speculation, and that IS NOT probable cause.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 8:30:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MikefromTX:
Originally Posted By Tboy:
When I travel with a large volume of weapons, I prefer to keep them as hidden as possible. I think they might have him on commercial vs. private vehicle. What if he was heading down to Laredo to sell these firearms - nothing illegal about that NOW.


Are you saying international sales of firearms is legal (without special dealer's licenses)? And given the publicity (fake though it may be) about arms being sold to Mexican drug dealers, I would think there's at least the smell of probable cause here ...

Just sayin'

.
.



You're sounding like many of the Mexicans and some of our national politicians treatment of Texas border towns. I'm not ready to give up Laredo just yet. We do not need to compromise our laws and rights for Mexicans. I'm concerned attitudes like yours would negatively affect fellow Texans. Do you support automatic searches and confiscation of LEGAL firearms at checkpoints?

For the record, if some Texan wants to buy a gun from me, I don't care where he lives. Be it Houston, Austin, Brownville, Laredo, Alpine, etc.
Link Posted: 4/19/2010 6:32:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By renkin2688:
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other than lying about what was in the truck, (Which is fucked up BTW), What did the guy do wrong? Is there a certain number of weapons you can transport? As long as you can prove they are yours with a bill of sale or other documentation, I do not see the issue.


I think this is the problematic part:
Prosecutors said that Dale Thomas, of Minooka, Ill., claims to own the guns and has asked for their return. He bought them in Arizona for $192,600 and arranged for another man to drive them cross-country when his rented box truck was stopped along the interstate by a state trooper, the documents said.


Thomas was a federally-licensed firearms dealer from 1981 to 2001. He arranged for another dealer to sell the guns for him since he was no longer authorized, the agent said.


Is it legal to act as a middleman in firearms transactions if you don't have an FFL? When you buy $200k of firearms and arrange for someone to sell them for you, it's hard to argue that you aren't in the business of selling firearms.
Link Posted: 4/19/2010 10:54:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2010 10:57:39 AM EDT by M4Dogg]
I think YES it IS ILLEGAL to buy a gun for someone else who can not legally buy a gun. Ditto with just plain selling them a gun you already had.

As for the 2nd report, how do we know they weren't headed to Laredo to be sold to US citizens to PROTECT themselves from all of the crime going on down there? I mean, I agree with all the probable cause comments, and in all liklihood, it could have been for illegal activity, however, isn't it "innocent until proven guilty"? Not saying I agree with this and for sure it is just plain silly to be doing this regardless of whether its legal or not.
Link Posted: 4/19/2010 3:26:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2010 3:32:11 PM EDT by spreadfirearms]
either way it's going to cost the guy alot of money to hire a lawyer, right or wrong.

I see a few red flags here:

-the owner hires a 3rd party to drive the truck, and the rental agreement is not in the driver's name. why won't the owner drive it himself? is there a written inventory? if I had that many guns and hired a driver I'd have inventoried every one to make sure they arrived.

-the owner is having them hauled interstate, living in IL, purchased them in AZ, and ferried to TX. and is there really a licensed FFL in Laredo there to accept these firearms? is there a consignment contract?

granted I believe no violation has YET been committed, I think it is odd.
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