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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/13/2004 5:30:11 AM EST
http://www.denoflions.net/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_banana.gif

Got my LTC-A last night!

They did not give me the all lawful purposes, but according to the cheif, he never give an all lawful purposes on th efirst LTC... said if I am a "good boy" for the next 6 years, I should have no problem getting the All Lawful Purposes.

Still... back to my bannana dancing http://www.denoflions.net/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_banana.gif
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:34:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By McClane:
They did not give me the all lawful purposes, but according to the cheif, he never give an all lawful purposes on th efirst LTC... said if I am a "good boy" for the next 6 years, I should have no problem getting the All Lawful Purposes.



I love how some Chiefs interpret the constitution for themselves. I don’t believe it states “For use to the range only” or “For competition only”.

Actually is states "A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Sorry about the rant. It gets under my skin when the right to protect yourself is taken away from someone because of a personal opinion of a local police chief.

What town do you live in?

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:11:03 PM EST

As a Mass resident till last year, I'm happy for you.

As a NH resident, I think of how anyone without a record can walk into a gun store, and buy a gun
that day, no permit of any kind. And how when I wanted a concealed carry permit, I gave my local
PD $10 bucks, filled out the form Thurs evening while they told me how much worse it is to get one
in Mass, and how they had my concealed carry permit in the mail the next morning.

Also, the AW ban ending means I can and have ordered NIB hi-caps, and that's a no-go in Mass for
eternity.

I'm happy for you, but if possible, I urge you to join me and all the other ex Mass oppressed in the
Live Free or Die State.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:42:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By ED_P:
As a Mass resident till last year, I'm happy for you.

As a NH resident, I think of how anyone without a record can walk into a gun store, and buy a gun
that day, no permit of any kind. And how when I wanted a concealed carry permit, I gave my local
PD $10 bucks, filled out the form Thurs evening while they told me how much worse it is to get one
in Mass, and how they had my concealed carry permit in the mail the next morning.

Also, the AW ban ending means I can and have ordered NIB hi-caps, and that's a no-go in Mass for
eternity.

I'm happy for you, but if possible, I urge you to join me and all the other ex Mass oppressed in the
Live Free or Die State.



I just spent 5 days up in New Hampshire bagging peaks, and I have come up with a new slogan for your wonderful state.

"New Hampshire: It's like Vermont, but without the hippys."

I will live there one day. Oh yes, I will.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:03:59 PM EST
6 friggen years!? What about the entire life you have lead while being a "good boy"? I hate how any police chief can decide what the firearm laws for his city are at will here. What city did you get the permit in?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:12:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By RealFastV6:

"New Hampshire: It's like Vermont, but without the hippys."





Dude that is priceless. May I use that at work tomorrow?
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:26:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 5:27:17 AM EST by RealFastV6]

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By RealFastV6:

"New Hampshire: It's like Vermont, but without the hippys."





Dude that is priceless. May I use that at work tomorrow?



Feel Free.

Now that I think of it, it'd be "Hippies" though.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:58:47 AM EST
Yeah I think the whoel "good boy" thing was really lame being I'm 30 years old, never had any issues, been in privite security for 12 years, been a PI, and now have a house, wife, 2 kids and a high level position in a large company... but still need to be a good boy for 6 more years...

I live in Brockton. Even prior to applying, I had heard that they are pricks about the all lawful carry permits. I agree though... should not be up to the local cheif to decide. Should go right to the state police. (Which it does anyway... they do all the leg work) If you pass their eval, then you should get it.

Of course I feel the same about the class A and class B thing... I can buy the same gun but with a smaller mag with a class B... so Just carry more mags... lame... but mass is that way... thats why a putz like Kerry can run for President form here...

Anyway... I'm going shooting this weekend even if I have to go my self
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:00:55 AM EST
Oh yeah... Loved the hippies joke.... got me rolling...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:39:00 AM EST
im still waiting for mine.its been around 6-7 weeks,just called this morning and they said "nope,not yet".

how long did you wait to recieve yours ?

i thought class a ltc's didnt have any restrictions,guess im wrong.can you still carry it concealed with a class a or does the licens have to specify that you can ? im more confused then ever now about class a ltc's.

can anyone break it down,the diff between a class a ltc and a class b ?
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:54:57 AM EST
god i fucking hate massachusetts.

sorry, i just had to say it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 10:43:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
god i fucking hate massachusetts.

sorry, i just had to say it.



+1
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 10:50:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 10:56:35 AM EST by McClane]
how long did you wait to recieve yours ?

4 weeks... sounds like they are dicking you around to me, but who knows.. could be a real busy area for them. The Law states they have to have it back to you in 45 days, but we all know how that works. horse.gif

i thought class a ltc's didnt have any restrictions,guess im wrong.

Yup.

can you still carry it concealed with a class a or does the licens have to specify that you can ?

Nope. Basically what they gave me would be the equivilant to a Large Cap. Class B. Or a... hing
im more confused then ever now about class a ltc's.

I know... it sucks... probelm is that so are the morons making the laws he

Class A, buy, posses, own, use, hold, ect. Large cap. rifles, shot guns and hand guns... I think handguns are more then 10 rounds, shot guns more then 5 and rifles more then 7 (look it up for exact number) are large cap. Can carry concealed. transport loaded/unloaded within your direct control. Can carry anywhere excapt - bar, court houses, banks, federal buildings and municiple buildings and schools. May be a few more, again, look it up.

Class B, buy, own... non large cap. Under the above mentioned numbers. can not carry concealed (even though it is a "license to carry" wtf???) When transporting, must be in furthest part of the vehicle (locked in trunk) and unloaded. even though this now technically puts the firearm "out" of your control.

More confused? hacko.gif

Bottom line... Massachusettes sucks... and if asshats like Kerry get elected (either to president or senate) we are all screwed!!!
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:14:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 3:17:06 PM EST by LenS]

Originally Posted By McClane:
Class A, buy, posses, own, use, hold, ect. Large cap. rifles, shot guns and hand guns... I think handguns are more then 10 rounds, shot guns more then 5 and rifles more then 7 (look it up for exact number) are large cap. Can carry concealed. transport loaded/unloaded within your direct control. Can carry anywhere excapt - bar, court houses, banks, federal buildings and municiple buildings and schools. May be a few more, again, look it up.




LOTS of erroneous info here!

- Rifles are hi-cap if >10 rds, not 7.
- Carry a rifle/shotgun loaded in a vehicle or uncased on a public way and you're looking at a very long stay in the "gray bar hotel"!
- Please quote the law that prohibits carry in bars, court houses, banks, federal buildings, municipal buildings? Schools/colleges are the ONLY place prohibited by LAW in MA! Any building can have "rules" that prohibit almost anything (cell phones, knives, guns, pagers, etc.) but that is NOT LAW! You can be asked to leave but NOT arrested for bringing a gun/knife/pager/cell phone/etc. into some of these places. [If you refuse to leave when asked, yes you can be arrested for trespassing, but that is a totally different issue.]

MA is bad, but MANY other "good states" have a lot more restrictions on where you can carry than MA (e.g. no police stations in FL, no municipal buildings in AZ, etc.). Common misconceptions of what people think our laws are make it seem a lot worse here than it really is.

I recommend that ALL of the MA residents on this thread mark Sunday, 1/23/05 on their calendar and plan on attending Chief Ron Glidden's MA Firearms Law Update Seminar at Braintree R&P from 9AM to 12Noon, www.brp.org for directions, etc. You will learn the DEFINITIVE INFORMATION on MA firearms laws at this seminar. I have organized the event and hope it will be free to attendees but need to clear that issue with the President of the club.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:34:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 5:54:45 AM EST by McClane]
Welll Like I said... Look it up. Also... I know I wasnt specific, But I wsa refering to handguns when I was addressing the carry part... Hope no one is stupid enough to take that the wrong way... if you are, they you deserve jail time.

As far as where you can not carry. You can not carry in Municiple buildings/ court houses. You must check your gun in when you arrive. This is the law according to "my" latest firearms safety course taken 1 month ago. The class both verbally and in print is very specific about this. Also.. Federal buildings are under federal law which means NO GUNS!

This is what I was both told and read one month ago. so I guess yes you can carry into a court house, but then must immediately turn it in until you leave. (thats why they have those nifty metal detecting thingies) Municiple buildings and Federal buildings operate in the same way. Feel free to test the theory though... Bet you spend a few hours in jail for walking into a court house and refusing to surender your firearm.

Ok... I'm calmer now... felt a little badgered, but that was probaly not the case. thanks for the info. on the class, and that info hopfully will clear up the confusion. Like I said I was just simply stating what I learned in my class.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:39:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By LenS:


I recommend that ALL of the MA residents on this thread mark Sunday, 1/23/05 on their calendar and plan on attending Chief Ron Glidden's MA Firearms Law Update Seminar at Braintree R&P from 9AM to 12Noon, www.brp.org for directions, etc. You will learn the DEFINITIVE INFORMATION on MA firearms laws at this seminar. I have organized the event and hope it will be free to attendees but need to clear that issue with the President of the club.




Good tip Len - thanks!

I have a friend who lives in MA and is a relatively new shooter. I'm going to recommend he attend this.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:51:19 AM EST
NOT every municipal building has metal detectors! My objection is painting with too broad a brush and letting others believe it is LAW! e.g. Public Libraries, Town Halls, Police Stations, Fire Stations, DPW buildings, Town owned Recreation or Senior Centers (and perhaps some Senior Housing), etc. are all "Municipal Buildings". I can say unequivocally that none of these places in my town have any security or metal detectors. I suspect that most towns/cities do not have security in their buildings (exception being Boston). I have been in and out of all these buildings in the past few months, sometimes armed and sometimes not.

I have also been in and out of the local probate court, once with a prisoner in tow (I'm a Constable). Constables are required to lock up their firearms at the security checkpoint (and knives, if they see them). It is my understanding that regular police are allowed to be armed in the probate court, but I haven't seen any there in my trips to court. These are still RULES OF THE COURT (set by the Clerk of Court and/or Chief Justice at that court, thus they vary from courthouse to courthouse). I'm not 100% certain, but I think that they took the security out of the Land Court building when the Probate Court moved out (this was mid-Spring 2004).

IF a building has security, they can legally demand that you not enter armed. If you refuse, they can (and will) arrest you for trespassing and/or disorderly conduct (depending on how you act). However they still have NOT changed the firearms laws to specifically prohibit carrying firearms into municipal buildings/courthouses (or banks, bars, restaurants, etc.) in MA! That is the point I was trying to make.

As for the seminar. . .one need not be a newbie! There were changes in MA firearms licensing laws that took effect in September 2004 and we all need to keep up to date.

As for safety courses, firearms instructors, LEOs I have rarely found one that actually gave out ONLY correct info. There is a lot of confusion and almost nobody knows the laws correctly on firearms. That's why I only use one reference and he's the speaker I arranged for Braintree R&P . . . his book on firearms law (used to train police officers) is ~300 pages and gets revised ~annually.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 9:45:26 AM EST
Again with the head bitting off... what is the big issue here. I already said that is what my class stated and that even as you pointed out... many different answers. No need to get nasty about.

When I took my class, that is what I was told and read, they had it in print and it stated THIS IS THE LAW.... that may have changed... Im not argueing that. Now Im just a little annoyed at the manner in which you responded.

You also said you are a constable. And yes there adifferent rules for both LE and the like then civilans.

"As for safety courses, firearms instructors, LEOs I have rarely found one that actually gave out ONLY correct info. There is a lot of confusion and almost nobody knows the laws correctly on firearms. That's why I only use one reference and he's the speaker I arranged for Braintree R&P . . . his book on firearms law (used to train police officers) is ~300 pages and gets revised ~annually"

I agree.

Like I said... LOOK IT UP.

Anyway... you must be right... Just learn to be a little kinder to someone who was simply trying to help someone out. And I surely dont pass myself off as the know it all of firearms.

Plus I never "painted with too broad a brush" I SAID LOOK IT UP... I was just giving general facts... YOU could easily give the correct facts without being an ass about it. That is all anyone asking for help is looking for.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:13:10 PM EST
girls, girls....
I dont wanna see you fight....i just wanna see your box.

hee hee hee
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:02:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 5:06:17 PM EST by LenS]
McClane, please accept my apology on how I stated what I did!

You did hit one of my "hot buttons" (when people proclaim things as "Law" that really aren't law), but I could have handled the "correction" better. Yup, you did say "Look it up", however I do have a friendly suggestion for you (for the future) and that is to try not to write something that someone may interpret as "true" unless you have looked it up and determined it to be factual. All of MGLs are posted on the state's website. Some of the CMRs (Code of MA Regs) are also posted, but not all of them. When I am not absolutely certain of something, I check these sources and/or Chief Glidden's book. If that all fails, I ask Chief Glidden directly to get me an answer (he speaks daily with the attorneys at EOPS that write the CMRs for enforcement of the MA gun laws, and he also speaks with the legislators and their staff attorneys who wrote the garbage in the first place).

As someone who's lived in MA all but 3 years of my life and having been involved in guns and MA gun legislation since 1976 (I testify each time they are hearing major gun bills, have served as legislative chairman at 3 clubs for a total of ~20 years, etc.), I'd like to see us (MA gun-owners) put a better face forward on what we do have here (it's not fabulous, but not nearly as dire as some paint it). I would find it very annoying to be able to CCW, But NOT in a public library, not in a "venue where the public congregate", not in a sit-down restaurant that serves liquor, not in a police station, etc. All of these are true in some of the states that we all consider more "gun friendly"!! However, NONE of these are true in MA (which everyone touts as having the "toughest gun laws in the US")!

A related story worth sharing: Braintree R&P requires all new members to sit thru a 3 hour class on their rules and which ranges allow what sort of gun/ammo/target usage (there are 7 ranges at BR&P). Club members do the teaching (most are certified firearms instructors). At the class I attended as a new member, our instructor (a long-time police officer and a certified firearms instructor) STATED as FACT that the use of targets shaped like a human are ILLEGAL in MA and a person could be ARRESTED WITHOUT A WARRANT if seen with one!! I chose (as a polite newbie) not to challenge him at the class. I went home, copied out the MGL on the use of human shaped targets and sent an Email to the President of BR&P with an explanation of what the 40 of us were "taught" vs. what the law really is. Next evening was the general membership meeting and the President brought the topic up and made a public correction to what we had been told. BTW, I am still good friends with the instructor in question (almost 6 years later).

So, let's call a truce and just stick with the facts that will help us all stay out of trouble, OK?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:17:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By McClane:
Again with the head bitting off...



I think you're being overly sensitive. Seriously. Poke around the general discussion threads sometime if you want to see what having your head bitten off really looks like.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:12:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By LenS:
McClane, please accept my apology on how I stated what I did!

You did hit one of my "hot buttons" (when people proclaim things as "Law" that really aren't law), but I could have handled the "correction" better. Yup, you did say "Look it up", however I do have a friendly suggestion for you (for the future) and that is to try not to write something that someone may interpret as "true" unless you have looked it up and determined it to be factual. All of MGLs are posted on the state's website. Some of the CMRs (Code of MA Regs) are also posted, but not all of them. When I am not absolutely certain of something, I check these sources and/or Chief Glidden's book. If that all fails, I ask Chief Glidden directly to get me an answer (he speaks daily with the attorneys at EOPS that write the CMRs for enforcement of the MA gun laws, and he also speaks with the legislators and their staff attorneys who wrote the garbage in the first place).

As someone who's lived in MA all but 3 years of my life and having been involved in guns and MA gun legislation since 1976 (I testify each time they are hearing major gun bills, have served as legislative chairman at 3 clubs for a total of ~20 years, etc.), I'd like to see us (MA gun-owners) put a better face forward on what we do have here (it's not fabulous, but not nearly as dire as some paint it). I would find it very annoying to be able to CCW, But NOT in a public library, not in a "venue where the public congregate", not in a sit-down restaurant that serves liquor, not in a police station, etc. All of these are true in some of the states that we all consider more "gun friendly"!! However, NONE of these are true in MA (which everyone touts as having the "toughest gun laws in the US")!

A related story worth sharing: Braintree R&P requires all new members to sit thru a 3 hour class on their rules and which ranges allow what sort of gun/ammo/target usage (there are 7 ranges at BR&P). Club members do the teaching (most are certified firearms instructors). At the class I attended as a new member, our instructor (a long-time police officer and a certified firearms instructor) STATED as FACT that the use of targets shaped like a human are ILLEGAL in MA and a person could be ARRESTED WITHOUT A WARRANT if seen with one!! I chose (as a polite newbie) not to challenge him at the class. I went home, copied out the MGL on the use of human shaped targets and sent an Email to the President of BR&P with an explanation of what the 40 of us were "taught" vs. what the law really is. Next evening was the general membership meeting and the President brought the topic up and made a public correction to what we had been told. BTW, I am still good friends with the instructor in question (almost 6 years later).

So, let's call a truce and just stick with the facts that will help us all stay out of trouble, OK?



+1
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:36:38 AM EST
Hey LenS, if the seminar @ B R&P becomes a pay event, will it be free for B R&P members? I'll be there regardless of it being free or not, but just curious.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:30:51 PM EST
Recon_Sine,

I just found out that it will be FREE to all that attend!!

Please introduce yourself to me. I'll be real easy to find as I'll be introducing Ron Glidden and sitting in the front row.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:49:11 AM EST
I was just about to post an apology myself... relized I got a bit defensive for no real reason... I realize you were just trying to help.

Sorryhank

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:16:03 AM EST
McClane,

No problem. I certainly could have been less terse. Printing something doesn't allow the inflections of voice and facial expressions which we can use in face-to-face discussions to determine the mood of the speaker. That's why we have the smileys and probably should use them more!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:18:33 AM EST
You poor bastards...I've never seen anyone so excited about a carry license that really isn't a carry license.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:40:11 AM EST
That depends on what the "issuing authority" states on the license. Mine has always been a "carry license" and MA law allows CCW in a lot of places that "free states" do NOT! ONLY schools/colleges are
"prohibited places" in MA LAW. Lots of places may have "rules" but rules aren't laws!

Brockton is a PITA (and one of the few places around where the law abiding REALLY NEED to carry a gun for self-protection!), they only want the thugs to carry guns . . . and they do. They also do NOT prosecute them on illegal possession of guns in Brockton. [I had an interesting blow-out with a judge that I know that was hearing 35 Brockton criminal cases/day, day in and day out. He explained to me WHY they do NOT prosecute under Bartley-Fox (1 year minimum mandatory for illegal gun possession).] One of the Brockton Police Commissioners is a friend of mine, he CCWs but he firmly believes that no-one but LE should possess/carry guns!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:42:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By LenS:
That depends on what the "issuing authority" states on the license. Mine has always been a "carry license" and MA law allows CCW in a lot of places that "free states" do NOT! ONLY schools/colleges are
"prohibited places" in MA LAW. Lots of places may have "rules" but rules aren't laws!

Brockton is a PITA (and one of the few places around where the law abiding REALLY NEED to carry a gun for self-protection!), they only want the thugs to carry guns . . . and they do. They also do NOT prosecute them on illegal possession of guns in Brockton. [I had an interesting blow-out with a judge that I know that was hearing 35 Brockton criminal cases/day, day in and day out. He explained to me WHY they do NOT prosecute under Bartley-Fox (1 year minimum mandatory for illegal gun possession).] One of the Brockton Police Commissioners is a friend of mine, he CCWs but he firmly believes that no-one but LE should possess/carry guns!



That is very unfortunate.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:43:34 AM EST
I have room to talk. Here in Indiana, the list of places you can't carry can be counted on one hand and still have fingers left over. Schools, federal property, and beyond the secure area at an airport. That's it. Bars, churches, malls, concerts, etc.etc.etc. are all legal. Our licenses are shall-issue, $25 for 4 years, and are good for any weapon legally owned, including Class III. They also give you the right to carry a loaded long gun in your vehicle.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:51:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

That is very unfortunate.



What exactly were you referring to?

Most all of what I posted in that reply is unfortunate!

BTW, it is the places where people need to defend themselves the most that tend to be most restrictive on LEGAL use of force, while being very forgiving of the criminal element that causes the most problems!! I'm not a psychologist, but there is room for many theses to be written about this sort of <lack of> rationale!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:31:16 AM EST
This part.


Originally Posted By LenS:
One of the Brockton Police Commissioners is a friend of mine, he CCWs but he firmly believes that no-one but LE should possess/carry guns!



I don't like when people place their opinion over the 2nd amendment. It's easy for an LEO to make that statement when they are the group that can carry.

With that rational, the LEO should carry asp's and let the US Military be the ones to carry guns. I mean after all the streets should be safe, this is America right.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:40:52 AM EST
Yes... they are kind of backwards when it comes down to it. I used to be a Loss Prevention Officer in Brockton for much of the start of my years in my porfession and faced many way to many judges that dont inforce the laws... including firearms laws.

I had on instance inparticular were the defendant (scumbag) pulled a gun and ran off. was caught later and charged. When it went to court, this defendant (scumbag) that had a large number of arrest already for drug dealing/ posessions, A & B, B & E, numerous shoplifting charges and so on including what should have been charged as a robbery and not shoplifting as he used a weapon and the threat of violance to commit the crime. The judge gave him 6 months for "shoplifting" and possibilty of parol after 3. What the hell happened to the MANDATORY 1 YEAR!

I have little to no faith in the Brockton courts. I have delt with them for most of my professional L.P. time and have seen little to no results. Unfortunately I have almost as little faith in the Brockton PD. For much of the same reason. I met a lot of good B.P.D. officers but unfortunately I have met far too many more just plan usless B.P.D. officers as well. Although that could be a direct result of continually seening the same scumbags let go over and over.

Part that ticks me off is I have lived in Brockton All of my life and never any time have I been in trouble with the law. (other then 1 speeding ticket h.gif ) But still... just kinda stupid the way the enforce things.
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