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Posted: 9/20/2004 5:30:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 5:32:38 PM EST by BroncoGlenn]
I was criticized by some all knowning persons in my unit for the way I carry my magazines. Apparently having the magazines positioned with the bottom up and oriented for loading is not the Army way. Apparently the way I'm supposed to do it is the magazines are carried with the bullets up and pointing out. Empty magazines are positioned bottom end up. Supposedly, with this great method of carrying magazines, the rightside-up position immediately tells you they are full vs. the upside down-empties.

Of course loading magazines carried in such a fashion requires a little juggling talent, as when you pull out the magazine, you need to somehow reposition your hold on the magazine on the way to the rifle such that you can slide it up inside the magazine well.

When I was asked why I carried my magazines the way I did, I demonstrated how by carrying the magazines in such a fashion, when a reload was required a change in grip on the magazine was never required, it simply rotates up and in.

So of course the next question that came was how I can identify an empty magazine if they are all upside down. Well, the answer to that was pretty simple: There are no empty magazines in my mag pouches. Full magazines go in the pouches, partially full magazines go in my pocket, and empty magazines go on the ground. An empty magazine in a fight is about as effective as a one legged man in an ass-kicking contest.

But what burns me is that people somehow, somewhere are being taught to carry empty magazines in their ammo pouches.

The only semi-valid-maybe-there-was-a-nano-second-of-thought argument I've seen for carrying the magazine right-side up, was it would keep rounds from falling out of the magazine should it be carried upside down. But the people who make this argument seem to have their train of thought de-railed when I point out that if they have rounds falling out of a magazine upside down, they need to get a mag pouch that properly fits the magazine and to ditch the magazine because it's got some tweaked feed lips if it's doing that and being upside down or right-side up isn't going to make any difference at that point. That magazine is no good.

Of course, one thing I find interresting is the people who have seen too many movies. It's pretty evident, they pull the magazine out of the pouch and before loading it, strike the back end of it a couple times on their kevlar, to seat the cartridges to the rear of the magazine. And of course there are those that do it becuase they see others doing it so they follow suit--these people are pretty easy to identify when they smack the front (bullet end) of the magazine against their kevlar. Now I could understand a light rap against the kevlar, but nothing can ever be done with finesse. Most every time I've seen people do the kevlar tap they do it with so much force that it not only seats the cartridges to the rear of the magazine but it bounces them back forward again, completely undermining what they were attempting to accomplish. Apparently lightly rapping a just loaded magazine against the heel of the hand (never had a problem with the cartridge bouncing forward doing that) and then stuffing the magazines into pouches has lost it's sex appeal.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 8:19:43 PM EST
sex appeal it is...

very sexy post.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 9:11:13 PM EST
I was taught mags down and out. That means visiable rounds facing to the ground and bullets facing out , I asked why once. The answer I got was easy feed and grab when your mag has a ranger loop on it (thats the term I used). If the mags in your ammo pouch get hit with a round from the enemy, the idea was that your rounds would blow down and out away from your chest and face. The empties if you do it right can be slung on your left thumb if you are right handed with the ranger loops or I always stuffed them in my shirt as I was moving. When I had the chance I would reload later, never drop them on the ground you may not get a chance to go back and pick them up. I was trained by prior LRRP's they seemed to know there war craft. LRRP's I was trained buy carried m60's in thier teams, and they had some good advice for me on that too.
I eventually ended up an 11MP the first time I showed up for a field excersize I had 6 mag pouches, 2 canteens, my pig sticker, cumpass, strobe light the whole works. I walked out to the motorpool and started up the ramp to load my gear and the platoon SGT. said "What do you need two canteens for" I looked at him like "What" then I looked around and everone was dressed like for a parade in front of top brass. Keep in mind this was training for the possible Golf War I. He must have never had to run a click to the last rally point before. Not to mention we were heading to the desert.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:08:06 AM EST
Good to hear from you Glenn,

Military methods often differ from law enforcement and civilian methods. In military (field/urban) combat applications the troop must retain as much of his gear during the fight as he can, as there is no supply sergeant on the battlefield. In law enforcement and civilian applications, officers and citizens alike are in the fight an average of three to seven seconds. Afterwards magazines, flashlights, tasers, OC spray, and any other defensive items can be retrieved with relative safety after shots have been fired and the threat is neutralized (unlike the battlefield where threats and hostile fire is constant).

I train my students (you being one of them) to carry full mags inverted in the pouch (upside down) with rounds facing the adversary (away from you). As a plus to this method, when the magazine is drawn from the pouch with the reloading hand, the index finger runs vertically up the front of the magazine with the fingertip of the index finger pressing rearward against the tip of the bullet. This allows the operator to properly "re-seat" a dislodged round before it is inserted into the magazine well. Indexing also allows the flat side (back) of the magazine to contact the flat portion of the magazine well, which in turn allows positive insertion.

Just like having the right tool for the right job, the right method for the right job is equally important. Therefore, you should adopt expedient methods relative to your specific mission, even if those methods differ from training you have received in the civilian world.

Be Safe.

Joe

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