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Link Posted: 10/20/2013 11:09:59 AM EDT
Now I'm just plain confused as to the order that these forms have to be filled out.  Form 1 or 3?  C&R first or is it form a Trust first?
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 9:53:07 PM EDT
a copy of the trust needs to be sent in with your Form 1 to the ATF. form 3s are for SOT holders, which you are not.

send in your c&r paperwork asap because that could be 30-90 days.

i would advise against sending in the c&r with your form 1 and trust.

you can send in your form 1 and trust whenever you fill them out.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 10:46:57 PM EDT
Got my C&R a couple months back and have been dragging my feet on getting a trust set up. I fired off an email to my CLEO just to see if she'll sign. If she will, I'll just go that direction.

Figured that now that I have a Mk18 upper (10.3") coming this way, I might as well start the SBR process so I'm not restricted to only using it on a pistol lower.
Link Posted: 10/31/2013 6:03:06 PM EDT
Any luck in DeKalb (city or county).  I'm getting ready to try trust.  So I don't put cr info in form 1 just send it with the trust?
Link Posted: 11/1/2013 5:22:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ivan1:

Curious as well, I wanna send off my c&r and start this process. I'm also in will county.
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Originally Posted By Ivan1:
Originally Posted By paulg26:
Originally Posted By gotfish:
Great thread & info.  Does anyone have any direct experience with getting Will County to sign off on the forms?  I live in unincorporated Frankfort and am very interested in pursuing this.  Would love any info anyone can provide!  Thanks!

I'm interested too my c&r should be in any day. I'm in unincorporated Frankfort township too
Anybody got the Will county sherif to sign a form or should I open a trust?

Curious as well, I wanna send off my c&r and start this process. I'm also in will county.


Just got my C&R FFL (in about 2 weeks, if not less), and got the name of the Will County Sherrif's secretary.  I just sent her an email to find out if this is a possibility.  I'll post back when I hear something.
Link Posted: 11/18/2013 6:09:29 PM EDT
Had a pleasant meeting with the Will County Sheriff this morning.  Forms are signed, photos attached, fingerprints done, and all on the way as of late this afternoon. Now the waiting...
Link Posted: 11/21/2013 8:26:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By gotfish:
Had a pleasant meeting with the Will County Sheriff this morning.  Forms are signed, photos attached, fingerprints done, and all on the way as of late this afternoon. Now the waiting...
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Did he say anything? Does he approve of people doing this or do you know him or someone that knows him?
Link Posted: 11/21/2013 8:57:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2013 8:59:18 PM EDT by gotfish]
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Originally Posted By Ivan1:

Did he say anything? Does he approve of people doing this or do you know him or someone that knows him?
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Originally Posted By Ivan1:
Originally Posted By gotfish:
Had a pleasant meeting with the Will County Sheriff this morning.  Forms are signed, photos attached, fingerprints done, and all on the way as of late this afternoon. Now the waiting...

Did he say anything? Does he approve of people doing this or do you know him or someone that knows him?


Nope - I didn't know anyone before starting the process. I contacted his office, and they gave me the info to get fingerprinted.  The sheriff was on vacation at the time, and I had already gone for fingerprinting by the time he got back. The people at the CSI division could not have been more pleasant. When the sheriff got back, he called me himself and we set a time to get together, and I got the impression that he has no issues with this.  He was a great guy - we sat in his office and talked for what seemed like a half an hour.  I walked out with the signatures I needed and had it in the mail by the end of the day.
Link Posted: 11/22/2013 11:25:18 AM EDT
I sent my paperwork with a trust back in August. Just got the email saying I was denied as trusts are not allowed to make SBRs.


Sir, Illinois state law only allows for the making of an SBR if the following regulations are met:

(A) the person has been issued a Curios and Relics license from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; or (B) the person is an active member of a bona fide, nationally recognized military re-enacting group and the modification is required and necessary to accurately portray the weapon for historical re-enactment purposes; the re-enactor is in possession of a valid and current re-enacting group membership credential; and the overall length of the weapon as modified is not less than 26 inches.

Unfortunately a Trust cannot meet either of these conditions and thus it is against Illinois state law for the Trust to make an SBR.

I hope that helps.
Dana Pickles
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My CLEO has been ignoring me since June. Does anyone have a resource in Cook County? I can't imagine Dart signing these.
Link Posted: 11/22/2013 12:25:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2013 12:25:42 PM EDT by gotfish]
CyberGuyPR...
Did you get your C&R license first?
Link Posted: 11/22/2013 2:10:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2013 2:11:38 PM EDT by battlehawk1025]
Talk with the NFA dept.. They made it clear (to me) that SBR can not be on a trust in IL. The reason is  confirmed that a trust can not have a C&R. Even if the holder of the trust has a C&R.. The dumb state law says an individual with a C&R can have SBR (with CLEO sign off) but no trust.  Unless the state law is revised. No way around the Cleo sign off :(  So unless you can get a CLEO its dead in the water for some of us.
Link Posted: 11/22/2013 3:04:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By battlehawk1025:
No way around the Cleo sign off :(  So unless you can get a CLEO its dead in the water for some of us.
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I hear Texas is nice this time of year!
Link Posted: 11/22/2013 4:59:31 PM EDT
If you're pending on a form 1 and sent it in on a trust, do you lose your place in line? I'm sure I can get the cleo signoff and send it in but don't want to be out 6 months of waiting
Link Posted: 11/22/2013 5:02:10 PM EDT
Or alternatively, is it okay to use a low that is engraved with your trust info to make an AR pistol?
Link Posted: 11/22/2013 6:47:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By gotfish:

I hear Texas is nice this time of year!
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Originally Posted By gotfish:
Originally Posted By battlehawk1025:
No way around the Cleo sign off :(  So unless you can get a CLEO its dead in the water for some of us.

I hear Texas is nice this time of year!



Luck my brother has a place in Wis
Link Posted: 11/25/2013 2:16:52 PM EDT
oh well, crap, I submitted my Form1 with trust back in March, it was pending in May, second pending Sept 26 and still got nothing

should I call them, or wait and see I made it by some miracle???

if I get denial, is my $200 gone, or will I have a chance to reapply and reuse the same money?
Link Posted: 11/25/2013 4:08:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Samal:
oh well, crap, I submitted my Form1 with trust back in March, it was pending in May, second pending Sept 26 and still got nothing
should I call them, or wait and see I made it by some miracle???
if I get denial, is my $200 gone, or will I have a chance to reapply and reuse the same money?
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Honestly, They will most likely deny it. They will refund you if you are denied for some reason.
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 9:47:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By battlehawk1025:


Honestly, They will most likely deny it. They will refund you if you are denied for some reason.
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Originally Posted By battlehawk1025:
Originally Posted By Samal:
oh well, crap, I submitted my Form1 with trust back in March, it was pending in May, second pending Sept 26 and still got nothing
should I call them, or wait and see I made it by some miracle???
if I get denial, is my $200 gone, or will I have a chance to reapply and reuse the same money?


Honestly, They will most likely deny it. They will refund you if you are denied for some reason.


So battlehawk you got yours through a trust correct?  What have I missed as to why trusts are getting denied and how have some got stamps with a trust.
Link Posted: 11/29/2013 2:12:20 PM EDT
At least 200 is enough to cover the Sig pistol brace
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 8:01:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2014 1:37:57 AM EDT by Shyyyster]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By battlehawk1025:
Talk with the NFA dept.. They made it clear (to me) that SBR can not be on a trust in IL. The reason is  confirmed that a trust can not have a C&R. Even if the holder of the trust has a C&R.. The dumb state law says an individual with a C&R can have SBR (with CLEO sign off) but no trust.  Unless the state law is revised. No way around the Cleo sign off :(  So unless you can get a CLEO its dead in the water for some of us.
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its been fucking 9 months and now i have to redo everything in the individual route and hope the dupage sheriff signs off.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 11:02:17 AM EDT
I'm just learn about these now as i had a few in the pipe line. That got kicked back.  I talked to the ATF they were originally allowing them on a trust.  At some point they changed them. So there are a few out there with stamps on a trust. Hell i have 2 sbr tax stamps on a trust. Since panic buying I never actually converted them to SBRs. Not sure what the ATF will do about the few ones floating around on a trust. Since they technically not legal. I have to do a little more digging.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 3:50:54 PM EDT
How do you know they got kicked back? Mail?

How long does the refund take?
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 6:02:40 PM EDT
This is BS I want this to be resolved asap i have 3 form 1's on a trust im waiting on now.  WTF they just change their minds when they want to WTF.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 6:37:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2013 6:38:00 PM EDT by wmjlar15]
So what do i do now i have two lowers engraved with trust info already and now i cant use them so i'm out the engraving fee and cost of lower WTF.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 9:19:26 PM EDT
Yeah this sucks about the trust issue I sent for 2 6 months ago and just wish if they weren't going to allow it they would send everything back so I can start them over.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 9:58:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By wmjlar15:
So what do i do now i have two lowers engraved with trust info already and now i cant use them so i'm out the engraving fee and cost of lower WTF.
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No kidding, I bought a nicer than usual forged lower for this project too.....Anyone know if its legal to use an engraved lower to make an ar pistol?
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 10:04:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2013 10:05:16 PM EDT by gotfish]
I'm far from an expert, but isn't it more an issue of your FFL checking the "other" box when filling out your original paperwork on the lowers (like they should be doing if you intended to make a pistol)?  I can't see how having something engraved would render it illegal for going ahead with either a pistol or full-length rifle build.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 10:35:55 PM EDT
If it's never been made into a rifle then it can be made into a pistol.
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 12:07:55 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wmjlar15:
So what do i do now i have two lowers engraved with trust info already and now i cant use them so i'm out the engraving fee and cost of lower WTF.
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i got the same problem. im just gonna have them blackout the trust and put my name. my location is still the same.
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 6:08:33 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shyyyster:


i got the same problem. im just gonna have them blackout the trust and put my name. my location is still the same.
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Originally Posted By Shyyyster:
Originally Posted By wmjlar15:
So what do i do now i have two lowers engraved with trust info already and now i cant use them so i'm out the engraving fee and cost of lower WTF.


i got the same problem. im just gonna have them blackout the trust and put my name. my location is still the same.


Did you get denied or you expecting to? Seems like its up for grabs on the examiner.  I was thinking mill out the area with trust engraved and then re engrave over it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 11:56:44 AM EDT
I never got a chance to engrave them. So i'm okay. Just have to see if my local Cleo will sign off now. So much for not attracting attention to my self
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 11:06:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wmjlar15:


Did you get denied or you expecting to? Seems like its up for grabs on the examiner.  I was thinking mill out the area with trust engraved and then re engrave over it.
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Originally Posted By wmjlar15:
Originally Posted By Shyyyster:
Originally Posted By wmjlar15:
So what do i do now i have two lowers engraved with trust info already and now i cant use them so i'm out the engraving fee and cost of lower WTF.


i got the same problem. im just gonna have them blackout the trust and put my name. my location is still the same.


Did you get denied or you expecting to? Seems like its up for grabs on the examiner.  I was thinking mill out the area with trust engraved and then re engrave over it.


i got denied after 8 months. i sent a letter back with my error letter stating SBRs are legal now in illinois along with more info. i havent heard anything back even though i included my cell number. im gonna call tmrw because they still have my $200 and im gonna hit up the dupage sheriff in a couple days to see if anything is possible.
Link Posted: 12/6/2013 7:42:47 AM EDT
We're you denied or did you have errors?  What reason did they give?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 10:10:56 AM EDT
they sent an error letter.  The only explanation was on 2 sticky notes.

note 1: cannot use 03 FFL if applying as a trust. 03 license is under name "last name, first name", an individual. not registered w/ trust.
note 2: the application is VOID unless you wish to apply as an individual and submit new forms.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:31:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shyyyster:
they sent an error letter.  The only explanation was on 2 sticky notes.

note 1: cannot use 03 FFL if applying as a trust. 03 license is under name "last name, first name", an individual. not registered w/ trust.
note 2: the application is VOID unless you wish to apply as an individual and submit new forms.
View Quote



So you put your trust name instead of where you should have put your actual name is what it is saying I believe?    The owner of the trust can (and must) have the C&R,  but the C&R or the trust cannot have the paperwork filled out in it's trust name.


If I am wrong please clarify.


~L
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 5:28:57 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Logistics:



So you put your trust name instead of where you should have put your actual name is what it is saying I believe?    The owner of the trust can (and must) have the C&R,  but the C&R or the trust cannot have the paperwork filled out in it's trust name.


If I am wrong please clarify.


~L
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Logistics:
Originally Posted By Shyyyster:
they sent an error letter.  The only explanation was on 2 sticky notes.

note 1: cannot use 03 FFL if applying as a trust. 03 license is under name "last name, first name", an individual. not registered w/ trust.
note 2: the application is VOID unless you wish to apply as an individual and submit new forms.



So you put your trust name instead of where you should have put your actual name is what it is saying I believe?    The owner of the trust can (and must) have the C&R,  but the C&R or the trust cannot have the paperwork filled out in it's trust name.


If I am wrong please clarify.


~L


A trust can not hold a C&R. Even if the trustee has one.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:06:49 PM EDT
I sent a email to Gary Schaible at the ATF earlier in the week about a denied eform 1 in which I applied as a trust and was denied because I used multi in the caliber field.  Mr. Clutter called me this afternoon saying trusts cannot be used for SBR's in Illinois unless the law is changed to a no C&R required state,  he also acknowledged the fact some trust's have been approved and said they are in violation of state law and need to be corrected.  I have a paper form 1 due up for approval in Jan. he's allowing me to send an individual form 1 in place of the trust one that's on file and keep my place in line as far as my two eform 1's they will be cancelled.  I knew this came as no surprise receiving this phone call as Todd stated trust aren't allowed unless the law is worded to not require a C&R for possession.  I know this sucks as I have 3 engraved receivers with trust info on them but the law is the law.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 6:19:04 PM EDT
My e-form just got kicked back today. Same reason as everyone else...........Trust can't hold a C&R

Now to find out if my sheriff will be cool or not. Would suck if not, since I've already got the Mk18 upper and it would suck to have to keep it as a pistol

Fuck this state
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 8:32:19 PM EDT
This is such bs.   So what do I do about the one they approved on a trust 3 days ago?

Mo you have some on a trust. What did they tell you to do?
Link Posted: 12/16/2013 10:28:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2013 10:31:52 AM EDT by battlehawk1025]
The few i have are on a trust are in violation of state law. Good thing is i never actually built them. I will have to redo mine and I have to get my mine on a individual form 1. That is going to take some time for me. Right now my time and energy are being spend concentrating in trying to find a new job.
Link Posted: 12/17/2013 11:16:26 AM EDT
Just in case I get denied because I went the trust route I want to be ready to go w/ a Form 1 w/ my CLEO signed off.

Few Questions:

With the individual form 1 I'll need to do fingerprints and a photo id in addition to having the CLEO sign off?

Since I already have my lower engraved with "John Doe NFA Trust", should I put that under the section 4h?
Link Posted: 12/17/2013 11:44:16 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By robb01:

With the individual form 1 I'll need to do fingerprints and a photo id in addition to having the CLEO sign off?
View Quote


Yes to both...the fingerprints have to be on a FBI card (not digital), and you have to send in 2 cards (not copies).  When I did mine, the CSI division of my county sheriff's office did them willingly, almost as if it was a frequently requested service, and they didn't keep a copy for their own records. The photo id is essentially like a passport photo or FOID photo, 2" x 2".  I had Walgreens do mine out of convenience, but there really isn't any specifications that I saw as to what the photo had to look like.  When my wife sent in her FOID app, they ended up using her driver's license photo that was on file, and not the one that she sent.  Not sure if this is the same situation.
Link Posted: 12/18/2013 12:17:38 PM EDT
how long do the Eform-1s take? can someone link me to this?
Link Posted: 12/18/2013 2:39:11 PM EDT
only a trust can use an eform and since we now cant do trust.  

I talked to ATF head today and that is an affirmative.  They will deny them all that are on trusts

You have no choice but to submit the paper forms
Link Posted: 12/18/2013 6:17:31 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By armored223:
only a trust can use an eform and since we now cant do trust.  

I talked to ATF head today and that is an affirmative.  They will deny them all that are on trusts

You have no choice but to submit the paper forms
View Quote


FUCKING GAAAAYYYY!!!
Link Posted: 12/18/2013 7:09:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By armored223:
only a trust can use an eform and since we now cant do trust.  

I talked to ATF head today and that is an affirmative.  They will deny them all that are on trusts

You have no choice but to submit the paper forms
View Quote

I read(not sure if here or not) that even the ones that got thru will not be legal. Did you ask about that?
Link Posted: 12/18/2013 10:30:22 PM EDT
yes that is correct. One of mine included.  They are in error I was told and will have to be corrected
Link Posted: 12/19/2013 6:17:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2013 6:19:44 PM EDT by Shyyyster]
I just got off the phone with the NFA about 2 hours ago. After calling about 4 times I finally talked to the examiner. Im assuming it was Nicole Dudash, she was very helpful and said the trusts are no-go until they change the law in Illinois. I explained how I got my error letter during the shutdown and just sent back stuff not knowing what to do. She said it was still in the system (havent opened my error letter yet) and they were making a note in the system to return all my paperwork when they get to it. She said to just do the individual route now and when the paperwork comes back to send everything AGAIN to the West Virginia address provided.

Has anyone dealt with Dupage Sheriff yet?
Link Posted: 1/18/2014 12:51:56 AM EDT
I got a phone call from NFA mid December, expectedly, about trusts not accepted.  the
lady on the phone agreed to not outright deny it but let me apply as
individual within 30 days correction period





I received  2 blank Fom1s, 2 FBI print card and the letter or correction with control number.





Without much hope, I emailed my Chief of Police, being that I live in
Buffalo Grove....and guess what, he agreed to sign it after he called
NFA and got clarifications about the new law, and today, I met with him,
got signatures, rolled prints at the same time while in PD, stopped by
Walgreens to get pictures and dropped the whole thing in the mail!





no place in the queue lost!!!!!





Happy day!

Link Posted: 1/18/2014 2:34:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2014 8:52:05 PM EDT by Shyyyster]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Samal:
I got a phone call from NFA mid December, expectedly, about trusts not accepted.  the lady on the phone agreed to not outright deny it but let me apply as individual within 30 days correction period

I received  2 blank Fom1s, 2 FBI print card and the letter or correction with control number.

Without much hope, I emailed my Chief of Police, being that I live in Buffalo Grove....and guess what, he agreed to sign it after he called NFA and got clarifications about the new law, and today, I met with him, got signatures, rolled prints at the same time while in PD, stopped by Walgreens to get pictures and dropped the whole thing in the mail!

no place in the queue lost!!!!!

Happy day!
View Quote


do you live in unincorporated? if the sheriff denies me im going to go to my city chief even though im unincorporated.

I just got my fingerprints done at Dupage jail yesterday and the deputy that did my finger prints was completely confused when I mentioned the NFA process. He took my paperwork to the offices next door, copied my paperwork, DL, and FOID card and came back 20min later. he said no one was in the office today so ill just have to wait. he took both my form 1s and a copy of my C&R to give to the sheriff. now its just a waiting game, and my 30 days is up in 6 days...

edit 01/22/14
just got my forms in the mail from the sheriff. he did not sign them. they included a copy of the UUW statue with the 16inch or shorter sub section highlighted. they didnt print out enough to see the exceptions. im gonna have to call tmrw and set up a meeting.
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